I'm painted black. She feels I reject her.

[Mutt]

I have a quick question about something I don't understand. My ex had painted my sister black years ago before she left me. Something that I had noticed back then, is that if my sister did not greet her specifically or give her eye contact, it would trigger my ex. "Mutt I can't believe your sister, she doesn't even look at me and say hi to me, that's so rude!" Keyword: rude.

This was at family gatherings and my ex would expect to have been greeted by my sister immediately.  My ex would start fights with me if she found out my sister would talk to me and it would last for weeks.

I'm in controlled contact with my ex. Pick up times I do not go to the door, nor do I greet my ex. She was trying to talk to me from afar about child support and I did not acknowledge her. I was there to pick up the kids and go, I don't go to the door because I don't trust her and if she wanted to talk about money, then e-mail me. She started to rage. I then received a voice message and she was going on about how I'm rude to her etc... .

She was at a neighbors while I was on my way home and leaving with the kids. It was dark. The kids didn't see me, but my ex did and I looked the other way and didn't say anything, i continued to make my way home. I get another e-mail on how rude I was on ignoring the kids "projecting".

So my question is, if I'm painted black but if I don't give her eye contact, she feels rejected. I've made it clear to her in many communications. Marital assets and divorce will be dealt with in court because I tried to do it the free way, with mediation and it was turned down twice. I only want to talk to her in emails about kids and I only pick up the kids at the corner of her house.

Why is it when I'm painted black, the devil incarnate, she feels rejected?

[HarmKrakow]

When you are painted black she feels rejected?

You mean when you don't enable her BPD by ignoring her completely (yay), she has a wire malfunction in her head and paints you black. And then load of hogwash comes out about... .Boo-hooh... I feel so rejected.

[Learning_curve74]

Remember the black and white thinking. When you are painted black, everything you do is wrong. Since you're ignoring her, now you're being rude and rejecting. If you were being friendly, then it's very possible she'd harangue you over not understanding it's totally over and that you're bothering her too much. Pure drama... . 

[Mutt]

This is the longest that I have been black and no end in sight. Although there have been times that she has painted me white. I'm still learning and I should really finish reading "walking on eggshells" .

This attachment after a r/s is over is confusing me   But it's not all her. I was enmeshed for a long time and I'm still working on detaching, controlled contact has helped a lot.

At the beginning of the separation it was because she wanted me as a back-up for the replacement,. Then months of black. This last month and a half, since I have been sticking with controlled contact, she has been trying to be nice to me more often.

[fromheeltoheal]

We can get hung up on jargon like 'painted black', which has its use in the context of discussion of the disorder, but also has limitations.  Remember these are just people with life experiences and subsequent belief systems that are sometimes radically different from our own, and we're all here trying to make sense of it and heal.

Projection is a popular way to avoid feeling unpleasant emotions and taking responsibility for them, used by everyone, but sometimes more pronounced in a borderline because they feel all emotions more strongly and don't have the ability to soothe them.  So if a borderline is feeling negative emotions strongly, usually shame is a biggie, and the relationship is not working, the emotions are just too strong so they offload them onto you, projection, and you're the scapegoat and the scumbag.  Plus you can no longer help with the soothing because you're the source of her pain, having projected.

Under it all is shame, rejection, feelings of abandonment, a replaying of childhood trauma.  And of course it's easy to also project back on the borderline, making her the loser with all the issues, just a convoluted web of dysfunction at that point, better to detach, learn, look at our part, heal, grow, move on.  Take care of you, stay here, and keep talking.

[Mutt]

So if a borderline is feeling negative emotions strongly, usually shame is a biggie, and the relationship is not working, the emotions are just too strong so they offload them onto you, projection, and you're the scapegoat and the scumbag.  Plus you can no longer help with the soothing because you're the source of her pain, having projected.

I get projection in the context of a relationship but I don't get it post break-up. There was a lot of projection on me from her during our r/s. I was blamed for everything and things that I did not do. She would have anger outbursts and it would escalate to rages if I defended myself. I see projection that she is offloading her emotions on me because she cannot soothe herself or cope with her negative feelings. So it's thrown/projected unto me. She projected the failed relationship on me because she cannot cope with the shame/guilt with her affair and the failure of a r/s and marriage.

Fast forward to post-break up and I don't understand how projection comes in the context of a r/s because it's over. I have seen her not take responsibility and project her actions on the kids. I have seen her throw a lot of blame around. Unless it's in the context that she is projecting her negative feelings of her current r/s unto me again?  Speaking from my experiences of her, her mask is still on and it did not come clean off until the train wreck that was the last few months of the r/s. Projecting her negative emotions of her current r/s on me to keep herself together?

Under it all is shame, rejection, feelings of abandonment, a replaying of childhood trauma.

Transference. Replaying something that happened to her in the past and transfering it to you.  

Take care of you, stay here, and keep talking.

I took a break for awhile from the boards but I see the importance for myself to stay here and talk. It's easier to talk to people that have gone through this dysfunction than to hear a T say, but she's not diagnosed and have to put two hats on. One hat as if it's not a mental illness and the other for people that do understand.

[fromheeltoheal]

I get projection in the context of a relationship but I don't get it post break-up. She projected the failed relationship on me because she cannot cope with the shame/guilt with her affair and the failure of a r/s and marriage.

Fast forward to post-break up and I don't understand how projection comes in the context of a r/s because it's over.

The relationship may be over but her feelings about it aren't.  You guys clearly have a lot of history and you had kids together, and that stuff takes a while to process, and every time she sees you she gets triggered again.  Plus, she's probably repeating the same patterns with the new guy, so that adds to the mix.  In a nutshell there's a lot going on emotionally for her, she doesn't know how to deal, so she flails against the world; expressing vulnerability and asking for real help is just too scary and out of her realm of understanding.  That mindset is not unique to a borderline mind you, we've all been there in varying degrees at one point or another.

Under it all is shame, rejection, feelings of abandonment, a replaying of childhood trauma.

Transference. Replaying something that happened to her in the past and transfering it to you.  

I don't see transference there.  Remember when a borderline attaches to someone they are subconsciously substituting that person for their primary caregiver from their youth, the person, usually their mother, that they never successfully detached from to become their own autonomous self, so they spend a lifetime straddling the fence of feeling like they are one person with the replacement attachment with no boundary between, to feeling engulfed and wanting to separate, to feeling abandoned and wanting to reconnect, push/pull, repeat as necessary until crazy.  Transference would require two autonomous individuals, and that isn't the case here, make sense?  Hard to get your head around.

[Mutt]

every time she sees you she gets triggered again.

She was like a rat in cage a few weeks before she left. She would project or blame me about something but was hostile/restless. She would pace around a room and keep her distance when I confronted her about something. She was barely home those last few weeks and kept making excuses that she had to move forward and make new friends and could not be in "this hell-hole". The reality of it was, she was making excuses to be with the replacement. She just didn't care.

In the present I see she does get triggered when she sees me because I see that same anxiousness. It's like she has to flee.

Transference would require two autonomous individuals, and that isn't the case here, make sense?  Hard to get your head around.

I think I finally I get the push/pull now and attachment/substitution. Often you hear about BPD and arrested development of a young child, I get it in that context. Transference I haven't wrapped my head around that yet no.

[Mutt]

Correction. 3rd time in 6 weeks she's trying to be nice. She sent another "nice" e-mail today.

[fromheeltoheal]

I think I finally I get the push/pull now and attachment/substitution. Often you hear about BPD and arrested development of a young child, I get it in that context. Transference I haven't wrapped my head around that yet no.

Any trauma can arrest emotional development, but BPD is a specific disorder in which a child never successfully detaches from their primary caregiver and becomes their own 'self', separate from others.  A byproduct of that is arrested emotional development.

So you know her better than we do; why do you think she's trying to be 'nice'?

[Mutt]

So you know her better than we do; why do you think she's trying to be 'nice'?

The entire time that I was with her we went through a specific cycle.

I want to say that her push cycle is escpecially stronger this time of the year. Every year we were together around Oct and it would last until the end of Dec, she pushes hard. The level of hostility, gas lighting, agressiveness (rages in the last couple of yeats towards me) are worse. After New Year's I would have to leave home and stay with family, then her pull would start and she would act as if nothing happened and ask me when I was coming home.

Oct last year was when she told me she was leaving me. That last cycle was more devaluation. Rages were I would just have to walk by her and she would lose it.

I wanted to protect myself from this nonsense this year and I made sure that I would go controlled contact.

So it could be that?

I could be wrong. I'm sensing that she wants me in my place on stand-by. She has come around my house when I don't talk to her for long periods of time. I think that she's checking up on me if I have a girlfriend.

All of this only happened when I disengaged from her and don't respond to her whims and don't respond right away. I looked at the behavior in the last year or so and there's no empathy or sympathy. It's just cold. But, I think she is hurt deeply.

This isn't a recycle. I think it could be she wants me as a fallback person. Again, I was wrong about everything with her for 8 years so I could be wrong about this.

I hope that makes sense.

[Mutt]

I thought about this last night. I think she is trying to be nice to gain an advantage and it's something for her. It's the what I don't know. Time will tell or it may not.

[fromheeltoheal]

I thought about this last night. I think she is trying to be nice to gain an advantage and it's something for her. It's the what I don't know. Time will tell or it may not.

Standard borderline is that it's always all about her, not because she's any meaner or more selfish than the rest of us, but because the disorder creates a full time chaos that takes all her effort to keep the lid on.  Mine was extra nice when she felt me pulling away, blamed herself, felt ashamed, and started kissing my ass to feel better.  And I did the same to her at times.

So what are you going to do?  Wait and see?

[Mutt]

So what are you going to do?  Wait and see?

Another e-mail today.

I don't think that I have to do anything. This reminds me about the exctinction bursts metaphor used in the following excerpt from this board.

Life is a journey. Sometimes we have a specific destination in mind - sometimes we are just enjoying the passing scenery. When we are trying to get somewhere, it’s important to maintain our focus on what our objectives are. This can become difficult if the person traveling with us has Borderline Personality Disorder. Due to their extreme defence mechanisms and twisted thought processes, they tend to wander off the path quite frequently. Their internal struggles create confusion inside them, and in an instant they veer off the path into dangerous and hurtful territory. Due to our compassion and love for them (a core feature of our nature), we feel compelled to chase after them in an effort to guide them back to the path. Through this chase, we wind up changing our purpose from moving forward in a healthy fashion, to becoming lost and stuck in defending and justifying ourselves instead. Sadly, this tends to ensure that we both wind up lost in the wilderness, sometimes never finding our way back to the path we started from. Allowing them to lure us off our chosen path leads to anxiety, abuse, and dysfunction, and rarely solves the issues we are facing. Breaking this pattern isn’t easy, yet it is the first step in developing a healthier relationship. Taking care of ourselves requires what feels like a selfish focus. Our loved ones aren’t mentally fit to be leading us around. As the mentally healthy ones, it’s important that we remember our goals. Prior experience has shown us that our efforts to bring them back to the path are rarely successful anyways, and often end up making things worse.

When the person with BPD wanders off the path - here is how to change the pattern -don’t chase after them. Stop for a moment and take a deep breath. Shut out the noise they are making to lure you further away from the path. Close your eyes and try to bring up your destination and goals. Once you’ve stopped your racing thoughts you are blocking the pressure they are putting on you, so you can evaluate things more clearly. Then ask yourself if following them into the wilderness has any chance of success. Evaluate if what they are saying is logical or if it has any bearing on your current journey. Is it a distraction and delay tactic? Does it need to be handled right now or can the issue wait to be resolved later? It’s not easy to block out their distraction and pleas for your attention, yet it is only with that critical pause that you can really notice how you are moving in the wrong direction, away from your goals.

When they don’t get the expected response from you, they will realise that they are traveling by themselves, which will initially confuse them, since up till now we’ve always joined them. To maintain their own equilibrium and to feel like they are still in control, often they will call out to you from the wilderness, trying to lure you into joining them. If you don’t respond to their baiting you, they will change tactics and use anger as a way to scare you into joining them in the wilderness. Faced with your apparent determination to stay on the path, this is where some Borderline Personality Sufferers will start to behave in ways that are evil and mean as they work to sabotage your goals and your determination in whatever fashion they can; threats, violence, destruction, intimidation, name calling, belittling, promises of withholding necessary things, retaliation, or any other painful thing they can think of to get you to join them in the wilderness. This is what we call the classic extinction burst. Things get worse before they get better.

At this point, each of you have different objectives. Their goal is to sidetrack you into joining them in dysregulation. Yours needs to be to stay focused on what your goals are, no matter how tempted you are to join them.

Remember - the first time you do this, your loved one probably won’t join you, no matter how long you wait or how patient you are. They will be determined to stay in the wilderness and wander, just to hurt and punish you. That is OK, as long as you expect it and are prepared for it. Try to keep in mind while they won’t like being alone, that it is a necessary thing for them to experience. It is what will bring on the opportunity for change.

We each have a journey here. We can no longer allow them to lead us astray. In time, if we stay committed to our goals, their journeys into the wilderness will be shorter and less frequent, as they adjust to the fact that we are staying on the path. We won’t be subjecting ourselves to as much pain, since we won’t be lost in the wilderness either. All of this is possible, “if” we make the commitment to stay true to our goals. If we understand that stepping off the path is unhealthy and makes things worse, not better.

United for now

It's painful. I feel compassion. I feel loss. I feel like I want to help her. But I can't. I'm turning 40 next year and I just cannot do this anymore. I got enmeshed with her for my own reasons that I am working through right now. My issues allowed myself to get into this relationship in the first place.

I choose to continue on my own path, because if I follow her, it leads to pain. I wish her the best in life. Hopefully her path will lead to getting help in the future and she can feel real love. Maybe in another lifetime for her. I see her as a person. A person that I did feel love for and still do to some extent, but I'm detaching. I want her to get better but I can't fix her or convince her to get help.

I'm going to ignore her pleas.

[GreenMango]

I just cannot do this anymore

Mutt welcome to acceptance.  It can be bittersweet.

It's not a place where everything is miraculousy better and you feel wonderful.  Sometimes there's that loss you talked about.  That lessens with time.  It's a big mix of those feelings you mentioned. 

All those things rolled up into one and saying okay this is what it is and was,  and I'm going to be okay and move forward. . It takes courage.

Good for you.

[Mutt]

I just cannot do this anymore

Mutt welcome to acceptance.  It can be bittersweet.

It's not a place where everything is miraculousy better and you feel wonderful.  Sometimes there's that loss you talked about.  That lessens with time.  It's a big mix of those feelings you mentioned.  

All those things rolled up into one and saying okay this is what it is and was,  and I'm going to be okay and move forward. . It takes courage.

Good for you.

Thank you GreenMango and fromheeltoheal. What a week   I was wondering why my feelings were pulling me in different directions. I also saw her and the replacement and I have to admit it triggered some feelings. The following day is when she made more of these attempts. I thought that it's really painful, but I'll be better once I come out at the other end and it will take time.