This Helped me Removed All Guilt (hope it helps you as well)

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi Everyone,

I have found something that GREATLY helped me getting out of the FOG, and stopped most of the remunerating and self blame. It gave an explanation to not only my role in my dysfunctional relationship, but also her role as well. I a grad-student studying for his doctorate in Psychology, and recently I have learn of the IMPORTANT concept of Passive vs. Active from a Couples therapist friend of mine, and is eager to share it with everyone. 

The Problem:

My exBPDf was a Waif/ Hermit. Meaning that she was highly subservient, and would do as I asked. She had no input, and was afraid to advocate for her own needs in fear of conflict. So when she left me, I automatically placed all the blame on me, and saw her as a Perfect Saint. I recognized that this type of thinking is distorted (No one be absolutely perfect), and decided to research on the question "what are some of the actions that she did that have influenced/skewed my perception of her to such a distorted degree".



And I found the answer in Passive Vs. Active.

THE SETUP

When one partner is passive (makes no decisions), it FORCES the other partner to be active (makes all the decisions). In a healthy relationship, both partners should be balanced in taking the responsible passive and active role across all reals of the relationships. If both partners are active 100%, then they will clash. And if both partners are passive 100%, then they will both start at each other and do nothing. Since we are caring, loving, and supportive, it is natural that we will naturally gravitate towards the active role if our partner is passive.  However, by being passive, my Ex managed to achieve a few things. 

1) Making no decisions means having no responsibilities, and cannot be held responsible for anything

2) Avoid the possibility to failing- If she is not responsible for herself, then you cannot be faulted for her failures.

3) Avoid the stress and pressure of being an adult

She simply "encouraged" me to make the decisions, and guised as:

"I like to do whatever you like to do, as long as you are happy. Just tell me what to do".

The sinister side of this message can be revealed when we translated into:



"I will do nothing, and offer no input, so that you must make all the decisions. If the decision is sound, I can benefit from it. But if it fails, then you are solely held accountable. Any real or perceived failure is therefore on your part, not mine. If I make you decide for me, then you are then responsible for me as well."



In my personal interpretation, I was systematic trained into making all the decisions of my life, and her life. Inadvertently, I also became responsible bot both our happiness, entertainment, and life goals. Eventually, it became my core belief that any life difficulties, on her end and on mine, is solely my problem. 

THIS IS WHERE THE GUILT AND SHAME COME FROM (for me)!


Eventually, I took the final step, and that is to became accustomed to taking responsible for her ACTIONS! I was unable to differentiate her actions with mine (enmeshment). So when she broke up with me, all I could think of was "I fail US it is all my fault, she was perfect, she made no mistakes"

I was feeling GUILT and SHAME because I was still under her training, that I am responsible for EVERYTHING, and she did so by being 100% passive

I now feel disgusted at the idea. I should have NEVER been placed into a position where I am responsible for someone else's feelings, inner conflicts, life goals, and actions. It is her responsibility to iidentify, advocate, and strategist ways to fulfill her own needs within the bounds of the relationship. My only role is to be open to her needs, willing to have a discussion, and willing to compromise if necessary ; which I know many of us are innately eager to do.



I don't mind making the decision and be responsible on what we can have for dinner, but I will not, and should not have to make the decisions and be responsible for her life.

[mumuli]

Hi Everyone,

I have found something that GREATLY helped me getting out of the FOG, and stopped most of the remunerating and self blame. It gave an explanation to not only my role in my dysfunctional relationship, but also her role as well. I a grad-student studying for his doctorate in Psychology, and recently I have learn of the IMPORTANT concept of Passive vs. Active from a Couples therapist friend of mine, and is eager to share it with everyone. 

The Problem:

My exBPDf was a Waif/ Hermit. Meaning that she was highly subservient, and would do as I asked. She had no input, and was afraid to advocate for her own needs in fear of conflict. So when she left me, I automatically placed all the blame on me, and saw her as a Perfect Saint. I recognized that this type of thinking is distorted (No one be absolutely perfect), and decided to research on the question "what are some of the actions that she did that have influenced/skewed my perception of her to such a distorted degree".



And I found the answer in Passive Vs. Active.

THE SETUP

When one partner is passive (makes no decisions), it FORCES the other partner to be active (makes all the decisions). In a healthy relationship, both partners should be balanced in taking the responsible passive and active role across all reals of the relationships. If both partners are active 100%, then they will clash. And if both partners are passive 100%, then they will both start at each other and do nothing. Since we are caring, loving, and supportive, it is natural that we will naturally gravitate towards the active role if our partner is passive.  However, by being passive, my Ex managed to achieve a few things. 

1) Making no decisions means having no responsibilities, and cannot be held responsible for anything

2) Avoid the possibility to failing- If she is not responsible for herself, then you cannot be faulted for her failures.

3) Avoid the stress and pressure of being an adult

She simply "encouraged" me to make the decisions, and guised as:

"I like to do whatever you like to do, as long as you are happy. Just tell me what to do".

The sinister side of this message can be revealed when we translated into:



"I will do nothing, and offer no input, so that you must make all the decisions. If the decision is sound, I can benefit from it. But if it fails, then you are solely held accountable. Any real or perceived failure is therefore on your part, not mine. If I make you decide for me, then you are then responsible for me as well."



In my personal interpretation, I was systematic trained into making all the decisions of my life, and her life. Inadvertently, I also became responsible bot both our happiness, entertainment, and life goals. Eventually, it became my core belief that any life difficulties, on her end and on mine, is solely my problem. 

THIS IS WHERE THE GUILT AND SHAME COME FROM (for me)!


Eventually, I took the final step, and that is to became accustomed to taking responsible for her ACTIONS! I was unable to differentiate her actions with mine (enmeshment). So when she broke up with me, all I could think of was "I fail US it is all my fault, she was perfect, she made no mistakes"

I was feeling GUILT and SHAME because I was still under her training, that I am responsible for EVERYTHING, and she did so by being 100% passive

I now feel disgusted at the idea. I should have NEVER been placed into a position where I am responsible for someone else's feelings, inner conflicts, life goals, and actions. It is her responsibility to iidentify, advocate, and strategist ways to fulfill her own needs within the bounds of the relationship. My only role is to be open to her needs, willing to have a discussion, and willing to compromise if necessary ; which I know many of us are innately eager to do.



I don't mind making the decision and be responsible on what we can have for dinner, but I will not, and should not have to make the decisions and be responsible for her life.

[pallavirajsinghani]

What a great insight!  Thank you.

Helplessness is one of the strongest choke hold and you seem to have realized that.

[Knowingishalf]

Wow, you just told my story in this post.  This was one of my biggest sticking points I had to decide everything from dinner to where we when shopping to everything.  I was to the point of feeling that she was incapable of being responsible for anything in her life.  I have since discovered that it was a very thin guise to not be responsible for anything.  If I decided everything how could she be to blame?

This was a fantastic post!

[Discovery]

Mumuli, yes it helps and thanks so much for sharing!

My situation was very similar to this... .my former partner hid in the passive role, disguising it as being Mr. Nice Guy who is always agreeable. He was active in minor things (planning activities, going out, etc.) but all major things to do with the r/s... .100% passive. Which set things up perfectly, as you describe so well, for him to NEVER BE RESPONSIBLE for anything to do with the r/s, and for all problems to be my fault. And he was VERY good at this.

I've never experienced being with a passive-aggressive person before, and I was VERY confused and felt so powerless and full of rage sometimes because he always made it seem like *he* was the victim. The circular conversations and him never being wrong or accountable for his part... .I felt so so angry many times... .but if I expressed anger... .yep! my fault for being "emotional" so couldn't go there. In some ways I don't think anything is more crazy-making than control disguised in passivity. Thanks for this reminder... .I was missing him today but this reminds me of how hugely frustrating it was dealing with him when he did that -- and it's what he does, it serves him very well, he has perfected it, and it's not going to change.

[Regular_Joe]

Amazing OP Mumuli! Insightful and well-written. Should be stickied IMO but definitely including it in my bookmarked list. Thanks!

[Discovery]

It is her responsibility to identify, advocate, and strategist ways to fulfill her own needs within the bounds of the relationship. My only role is to be open to her needs, willing to have a discussion, and willing to compromise if necessary.

YES, yes, yes, yes. I wish I had this paragraph years ago. Then again, he likely wouldn't have been receptive to hearing it from me.

I wish Anthony Robbins could have showed up *pouf!* one day in his bedroom, and said in his big, gravelly voice, "You want love to last in your life, man? You need to hear this, X" -- you're not gonna have the love you want unless you put this in practice. Learn  how to be a real man. People who create happy r/s are self-aware, take 100% responsibility for themselves, know how to get in touch with and communicate their feelings and needs, and are accountable for what they say."

[Learning_curve74]

Great insight, mumuli!    You two were enmeshed and without proper boundaries.

Best wishes to you in your healing and on your journey. 

[mumuli]

It is her responsibility to identify, advocate, and strategist ways to fulfill her own needs within the bounds of the relationship. My only role is to be open to her needs, willing to have a discussion, and willing to compromise if necessary.

YES, yes, yes, yes. I wish I had this paragraph years ago. Then again, he likely wouldn't have been receptive to hearing it from me.

I wish Anthony Robbins could have showed up *pouf!* one day in his bedroom, and said in his big, gravelly voice, "You want love to last in your life, man? You need to hear this, X" -- you're not gonna have the love you want unless you put this in practice. Learn  how to be a real man. People who create happy r/s are self-aware, take 100% responsibility for themselves, know how to get in touch with and communicate their feelings and needs, and are accountable for what they say."

thanks you the support. I personally would love Morgan freeman say those words. 

[maxen]

thank you mumuli, that pretty well describes the dynamic in my marriage.

I was VERY confused and felt so powerless and full of rage sometimes because he always made it seem like *he* was the victim. The circular conversations and him never being wrong or accountable for his part... .I felt so so angry many times... .but if I expressed anger... .yep! my fault for being "emotional" so couldn't go there.

yep! my wife cited my expressions of frustration as one of the main reasons she left (what she did to make me frustrated was not to be considered) and she found someone who, it appears to me, is more comfortable in the decision-taker/protector role. where i come from, women are adults. i thought a woman in her 40s could be assumed to be an adult.

[CdnSunrise]

Wow, I didn't realize that this was part of BPD as well. I have been so busy dealing with all the other fallout from my 15 year relationship with my BPDexh that I didn't realize that this dynamic was strong in our relationship as well.

I was always hoping/waiting for my BPDexh to grow up, and he never did. He would only do things with our kids if I "made" him -- or anything else, really. It's so exhausting having to do everything in a r/s and getting absolutely NOTHING back. And take care of 3 kids as well. I felt that I had 4 kids, and now the biggest, hardest to handle one is no longer my responsibility. What a relief it's been.

[MovingOnForLife]

Wow, I didn't realize that this was part of BPD as well. I have been so busy dealing with all the other fallout from my 15 year relationship with my BPDexh that I didn't realize that this dynamic was strong in our relationship as well.

I was always hoping/waiting for my BPDexh to grow up, and he never did. He would only do things with our kids if I "made" him -- or anything else, really. It's so exhausting having to do everything in a r/s and getting absolutely NOTHING back. And take care of 3 kids as well. I felt that I had 4 kids, and now the biggest, hardest to handle one is no longer my responsibility. What a relief it's been.

Same here.   My not soon enough to be ex uBPDh was my biggest baby.  He would always say ":)D is doing X - what are you going to do about it?"  It drove me insane!  But now I'm glad that he's almost out of my life and he's someone else's problem now.

[CdnSunrise]

I guess I'm not using the labels quite correctly - like you MovingOnForLife, he is more correctly my "not-soon-enough-to-be ex uBPDh". Unfortunately for me, I've decided to stay in the same small community as he lives for the sake of my kids (both sets of grandparents live here too). What I don't get is that the almost ex hasn't found a new victim yet, after 1.5 years -- although my dad did see him going for a run with a woman last week. Gotta love a small town. And of course, he's a highly respected medical professional here so I feel that I can't really put out a warning message to the general public about him.

[KE151]

This makes sense in light of my BPDexgf(waif)'s behavior during the break up process and in her taste in men:

in the time leading up to our break up, she would withdraw, saying she needs time to think and analyze her feelings. She continued this for 1,5 months and it obviously didn't lead anywhere. I became frustrated and finally decided for both of us, and left.

Could it be that she put herself in the helpless victim role, just waiting for ME to do the honors of breaking up or alternatively apologizing fiercely for my own behavior?

Also, she idolizes very confident/self centered men (my predecessor was probably NPD) and she seemed to look up to men who were hard and over confident, i.e. telling her what to do.

[bruisedbattered]

totally makes sense now... .   I remember feeling guilty when my x would stay in bed and not go to work because she didnt feel up to it... .good insight!