New Hi moving away from 'detaching' a bit

[Changingman]

Hi everyone here,

I want to move on from the detaching board and learn more about my issues.

I talked to a friend tonight, he asked me to list the reasons I stayed for 4 years with my X. It wasn't good, I couldn't really think of anything. Codependency? A bit, low self esteem? some, Loneliness? At first!

There was only one person in the relationship, no real connection in any meaningful way, why on earth was I there.

Just really saying hello to the next phase, hopefully.

[Perfidy]

CM... how goes it? I can relate. I got to a point where I'm not really all that interested in discussing the ex at all. Really!  By now it's all been said. There's nothing left to say. I still try to give helpful remarks on the l4 board. I did take much from there when all the crap was fresh. I try to give a little back. I'm really not all that sensitive to some of the behavior with not keeping the hell away from the fire. I know we get a little sick from these relationships and we bring our own issues into them. Yes we need to examine what kept us in them. Hopefully we don't repeat our mistakes. I throw out some of the ideas that I hear from counseling sometimes. Stuff I can't readily accept. Get other opinions. Sometimes it helps. Other times it just confuses me more.

Personal inventory, to me, should include positive things as well as things that could use improvement. I'm sick. I'm still a good person. My relationship skills aren't the best. I'm an excellent father. I'm codependent. I'm generous. I caretake. I help. So you see... It's a fine line between good qualities and less than perfect behavior. It's about a desire to become a better person. Not perfect.

Getting confused while having a relationship with a pwBPD is pretty standard from what I've read in the threads and posts here. Our good qualities become twisted. We do things that we haven't done in other relationships that were non BPD relationships. To me it was like a drug. Taking my inventory means looking at myself and no one else. The part where we understand the seperation between us and them.

Happy healing CM

[doubleAries]

Welcome, Changingman!

There are lots of us from all the boards here on "taking personal inventory", and you are welcome to visit any of the other boards as well as this one.

I think we've all had some hair raising experiences with the pw Personality Disorders in our life--whether it's a spouse, a parent or sibling, friend, whatever. Perhaps a little different for those of us who had a PD parent, as there wasn't really any escape, but we usually go on to hook up with PD partners and friends too.

But then there comes this time (for all of us), when we say "huh. Wonder why this person was attracted to me. Wait a minute... .why was I attracted to this person/situation?" And that's what we're doing here on personal inventory. It's when we go from stopping trying to fix or control the pwPD's in our life and start looking at improving ourselves. When we quit bemoaning what they did to us, and how we can move on to more healthy relationships with others. Sometimes difficult, but always rewarding.

So tell us--what issues about yourself do you want to explore?

[Changingman]

Hi,

I guess I'm worried about about why I stayed for 4 years in a RS that was toxic. There were many times I'd decided to break up. Emotional betrayals, her not really any support stuff, ( you know ) and setting boundaries that when she stepped on I went off. She managed to pull me back in.

She became a muse in a dark time for me and 'activated' me to get up and back on with life and being me again. That was amazing, but as her dark games started I got caught in not getting away, fixing her crisis, feeling too 'in' the RS to really detach. Savour complex and nurturing.

Neediness?

Loveless?

Self esteem?

I need to become more independent, trust myself more, do things because I need them and I deserve them. Taking care of me. I need to be alone for some time and heal myself.

I guess, why am I here, what doors to close, what needs opening. why am I in the corner, hidding. How to set up healthy futures and stop putting myself in no win situations.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Changingman,

Nice to see you on P.I.  I think so many of us relate to your questions, I know I do. It might take some digging, but the gold is in there.  We'll listen and support your journey.  

She became a muse in a dark time for me and 'activated' me to get up and back on with life and being me again.

This caught my eye.  I know I was in a vulnerable spot when I met pwBPD.  Could you tell us more about that time for you?  What was going on?

I guess, why am I here, what doors to close, what needs opening. why am I in the corner, hidding. How to set up healthy futures and stop putting myself in no win situations.

Does any of this remind you of your past relationships/family situation?  

[Changingman]

Hi Changingman,

Nice to see you on P.I.  I think so many of us relate to your questions, I know I do. It might take some digging, but the gold is in there.  We'll listen and support your journey.  

She became a muse in a dark time for me and 'activated' me to get up and back on with life and being me again.

This caught my eye.  I know I was in a vulnerable spot when I met pwBPD.  Could you tell us more about that time for you?  What was going on?

I guess, why am I here, what doors to close, what needs opening. why am I in the corner, hidding. How to set up healthy futures and stop putting myself in no win situations.

Does any of this remind you of your past relationships/family situation?  

Hi Heart,

Had finished in a 14 year RS with 2 beautiful kids, their mum I realise now had BPD, the idealising and devaluing was so strong in her, I had to take over child rearing when I realised she was incapable of it. No empathy. We achieved so much together but the push/pull, manipulation, triangulation ( houses, jobs, friends ) became bigger and bigger. Me and the kids ended up the others ended up the other side of the world ( literally ) on her idealising female 'soulmate'  then when she was 'let down by her' was working back home. Me and the kids abandoned again. I realise now whenever she took the reigns of the family it ended in disaster. I was convinced it was me.

When I finally, yes really, finally left after a long time weighing up the effect on the kids. I tried to do it gently, get a flat nearby and continue to raise the kids but with distance from her. She laughed, totally unbelieving me. Agreed to the rational plan I had, then realising I was deadly serious went into revenge and control mode, the like I'd never seen, to get me back. The kids, the house, a friend dying of cancer, EVERYTHING was used to manipulate me. The sad thing is, each manipulation pushed me further away... .she didn't really know me, it was so confusing. She cannot experience love, I know tha now.

I went into a new RS without properly healing and having this demon stalking me still. Really I was depressed, the new girl was a depressive really nice but we reached an amicable end. Still friends.

1 1/2 years of depression

Then met the new BPD.

Her... .Ugg just childish nasty s*** really

But I learned about BPD, and for that I'm grateful, a relief really. Makes some sense of my history, thought it came from me but I think I connect with it.


FOO

5 children, me the youngest. Watched my family disintegrate around me. Mum chased Dad away and we were left with Mum. Next up sister fled at 14 years old, split black by mum till this day ( 40 years later ). Looked after myself from 11 years old, from word go really. Mum BPD, wow. Taught myself everything from cooking for myself to getting to university, begging my Mum to sign the forms to get into university I'd been accepted into, mum to this day hasn't 'any idea what you do' but she knows it's wrong. I suspect she thinks I'm a somehow amazing but can't see it. Got a First class degree, still wasn't good enough. Dad died 2nd year of university, bless him. Has the great spirit got a plan for me?

Enough

[letmeout]

My mother was BPD, and I married a BPD person when I was 17. Dealt with his pretty crazy stuff for the next 35 years. After finally escaping the marriage, my first real boyfriend was so similar to my ex that I decided to stop dating all together until I figure out how to not gravitate towards others who are similarly disordered.

I still ruminate about my ex sometimes; something I need to stop doing. The BPDexh turned into a Super Freddie Kruger when I 'abandoned' him, so I can understand why those memories still haunt me. 

My current hurdle is trying to form friendships. I just don't trust my own judgement when it comes to other people.  I feel abandoned by the few friends that I do have. and have trouble maintaining closeness with anyone.

So I do my best to take it one day at a time, but it feels like I am spinning my wheels and not going anywhere.

On the positive side, I am holding down two jobs, just saw my youngest son tonight for early   and will see the other son tomorrow. I am grateful that I can afford my apartment and my car and I have my health   

[Changingman]

My mother was BPD, and I married a BPD person when I was 17. Dealt with his pretty crazy stuff for the next 35 years. After finally escaping the marriage, my first real boyfriend was so similar to my ex that I decided to stop dating all together until I figure out how to not gravitate towards others who are similarly disordered.

I still ruminate about my ex sometimes; something I need to stop doing. The BPDexh turned into a Super Freddie Kruger when I 'abandoned' him, so I can understand why those memories still haunt me. 

My current hurdle is trying to form friendships. I just don't trust my own judgement when it comes to other people.  I feel abandoned by the few friends that I do have. and have trouble maintaining closeness with anyone.

So I do my best to take it one day at a time, but it feels like I am spinning my wheels and not going anywhere.

On the positive side, I am holding down two jobs, just saw my youngest son tonight for early   and will see the other son tomorrow. I am grateful that I can afford my apartment and my car and I have my health   

Ouch, I hear you

Good luck with it all, love the rent and car it's so true.

Got no advice yet.

[Rose Tiger]

Littlechangingboy needed the love, excitement, devotion of BPD gal because he always wanted it from Mum.  Then they turn into the disinterested parent to us.  Challenge!  Make someone that can't love, love you!  Let the games begin! Wait, this game is no fun at all but... .as long as the focus is on it, no need to focus on your own stuff.

Are you ready to focus on your own stuff? 

[doubleAries]

This topic certainly interests me, as I am going though a very similar mindset myself right now. Why did I stay for 18 years with a bipolar w/psychotic features/NPD/ASPD spouse? I married a diagnosed ASPD when I was 16 to escape my mother. Obviously, that didn't work very well. 2 years. Next serious r/s was with an NPD (like good ol' dad). Then married again, for 6 months. Next, hey quit playing around--go for the bipolar guy (his original diagnosis was schizophrenia).

I can't afford this ridiculous puzzle anymore. And the common denominator is ME. That's what I need to be looking at.

[letmeout]

doubleAries, you probably need to do what I did. My counselor said to quit dating for at least a 1-2 years. Its rough to be alone, but its a lot rougher to be with someone dysfunctional.

Our addiction is their drama, going cold turkey from that addiction is what I needed to do. Normal people don't radically fluctuate in their emotions like the mentally ill do.  We have to adapt to peace and serenity, and sure it might be boring because we are not use to it, but for one, I am much better off without that negative influence in my life.

Life is sweeter now, and I don't miss the craziness it once was.  Healing from it takes time, but I have all the time in the world to heal.

Merry Christmas    and have a blessed new year!

[doubleAries]

Yeah, thanks, letmeout. That's pretty much what I'm doing. Not just going with a timetable, though (moved out over a year ago and haven't dated at all in that time, and won't until I know I'm ready--not lonely, but healthy). I have a penchant, not so much for the drama addiction, as for poor self image in certain situations (like interpersonal relationships) and I am susceptible to being emotionally pushed into things I don't want to be involved in. Then thinking I have to make the best of it. Hoping I can "fix" it.

Not like I never thought of this before. I certainly have. But was missing a part... .the part about just experiencing feelings that don't feel all that good instead of being hellbent to do whatever it takes to alleviate those feelings, no matter the cost. No one is exactly comfortable with guilt or shame, or fear or any of the "unpleasant" emotions, but not everyone self flagellates over it either, or freaks out and has to "get rid of" those feelings.

It does occur to me at this point that healthy people aren't attracted to the personality disordered or otherwise mentally ill. Really--I've watched some of my pretty healthy friends immediately react with repulsion to BPD or NPD people, and never get sucked in at all. ! How did they do that? That's what I want! I think I have some idea now, but need practice.

How about you, changingman--this is your thread--what do you think is behind the low self-esteem? Is it conscious ("I sure don't deserve any better... ." or unconscious ("what the heck am I doing? I don't deserve this!" I know for myself it's unconscious. I think I deserve better but don't FEEL that. Feelings and thoughts don't match up, are disconnected from each other. I see emotions as weak and try to get rid of them as soon as possible --which only makes them mutated, immature, and HUGE... .landing me right into that frying pan over and over. The best thing I've found so far (which doesn't make all that much rational sense to me) is to stop and remind myself that when an uncomfortable emotion comes up, to not worry and fret about whether it "makes sense" or not, or about how to make it go away, but to just let it happen, experience it, and don't DO anything about it. Just let it run it's course. Then get on with the rational response.

So how about you? I'm curious about what you call co-dependency. I think I have some streaks of that as well, but it's not a great match. Same with self-esteem problems, neediness--the other things you've mentioned. I think in my case, it seems to be rooted in emotional disconnect (not lack of emotions entirely) that leads to boundary problems. And the difficulty admitting that those of us with boundary problems don't just get walked on--we do some walking on as well.

It's starting to get a lot better when I remember to slow down about feelings... .that when the not so pleasant feelings arise, I don't have to "fix" them. In myself or anyone else.

And who would've thought such a simple little zen like thing would be what keeps me out of relationships with the seriously mentally ill?

[letmeout]

Our emotions get blocked (at least mine did) from living with a BPD person for such a long time. I had to block them to survive in that relationship. His disorder was so overwhelming to deal with that I never had time to process my own emotions, or even figure out how to deal with them. A work in progress... .

[Changingman]

doubleAries, you probably need to do what I did. My counselor said to quit dating for at least a 1-2 years. Its rough to be alone, but its a lot rougher to be with someone dysfunctional.

Our addiction is their drama, going cold turkey from that addiction is what I needed to do. Normal people don't radically fluctuate in their emotions like the mentally ill do.  We have to adapt to peace and serenity, and sure it might be boring because we are not use to it, but for one, I am much better off without that negative influence in my life.

Life is sweeter now, and I don't miss the craziness it once was.  Healing from it takes time, but I have all the time in the world to heal.

Merry Christmas    and have a blessed new year!

Life is sweeter now

Love this, I feel it.

Onwards to healing, xxx

[babyducks]

Great thread,  thanks for kicking it off Changingman.

A lot of this hit home for me. 

I get that my Ex didn't have the emotional skills to have/support a mature healthy stable relationship.  But I am not sure that I do either.

A long time ago I read on one of these boards that pwBPD can't self soothe and we NON's can't self validate.  Ding Ding Ding 

Yeah, like many of us, on the spectrum I am on the depressive side, with low or lower self esteem and co dependency traits.

I grew up with a mentally ill mother and became her care taker and her calming agent.  To this day people still comment on how incredibly calm I am in crisis.   It is deeply ingrained in my personality, and I am not sure I want to change that.  I kind of like it.   I do want to have some balance and know when to step back. 

I like what Perfidy said about personal inventory should have some good traits too.

I think its about balance. for me.  and getting myself more centered around things that are good for me.

[damage control]

Babyducks

Are you calm in a crisis or, does a crisis feel normal and you find a kind of peace there?

Just wondering given what you posted about your mother.

[babyducks]

Babyducks

Are you calm in a crisis or, does a crisis feel normal and you find a kind of peace there?

Just wondering given what you posted about your mother.

Hi DC,

Nope crisis doesn't feel normal, and I don't find peace there.  It feels uncomfortable and gnarly, like it would for anyone, I just have learned a whole bunch of tricks to be calm through the crisis. So I can function and respond.   I fall apart after.   Yup,  I was the responsible one in my family.

Hope that makes sense.

babyducks

[damage control]

Babyducks

Are you calm in a crisis or, does a crisis feel normal and you find a kind of peace there?

Just wondering given what you posted about your mother.

Hi DC,

Nope crisis doesn't feel normal, and I don't find peace there.  It feels uncomfortable and gnarly, like it would for anyone, I just have learned a whole bunch of tricks to be calm through the crisis. So I can function and respond.   I fall apart after.   Yup,  I was the responsible one in my family.

Hope that makes sense.

babyducks

It does - thanks for clarifying

[RecycledNoMore]

Hi CM me too, I wanted to wean myself off detatching and focus on me more than him, it feels scary but exciting at the same time... . a new chapter... .