How do you handle accepting blame?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I have a question: what is a good strategy for accepting blame when your BPDso is asking inappropriately for apologies?  Not for minor stuff like leaving the toilet seat up, but rather for things like baggage from years ago, or for major stuff that was clearly mutual or was their fault but they turned the tables?  I will gladly apologize for anything to stop the conflict and let things go, but I know there is danger here in validating their blame.  I've been wondering for a long time how to handle this dilemma.

[spuds_mckenzie]

I have a question: what is a good strategy for accepting blame when your BPDso is asking inappropriately for apologies?  Not for minor stuff like leaving the toilet seat up, but rather for things like baggage from years ago, or for major stuff that was clearly mutual or was their fault but they turned the tables?  I will gladly apologize for anything to stop the conflict and let things go, but I know there is danger here in validating their blame.  I've been wondering for a long time how to handle this dilemma.

[maxsterling]

I'd like an answer to this, too.  I do know that validating their bad behavior or accepting even a share of blame for things you have no control over will come back to bite you later.  I got into a habit of doing this for awhile as a means of avoiding a potentially dangerous rage and protecting myself.  And now I am forced to try and undo some of that.

[Wrongturn1]

Apologizing for something that is not your fault or that you have previously apologized for is unhealthy for both parties.  My suggestions:

1) If you did no wrong, absolutely do not apologize.  Feel free to validate emotions ("I can see that you are really angry; that must feel terrible... . ", but do not accept responsibility for anything that is not your fault or wrongdoing.

2) If the person with BPD wants repeated apologies when you have apologized one or more times previously, try something like: "I have already apologized for that and have done everything I can to make it right.  Discussing the matter further would only hurt both of us, so I am not going to do that."  Then be prepared to walk away/take a timeout.

[schwing]

Hi Spuds,

You might consider not accepting their blame, but only validate their feelings.

When they demand an apology, tell them you are sorry that they feel ... . X, Y or Z.  Whatever they are feeling, you can express sympathy for how they feel.  Validate their feeling by accepting their feeling (i.e., "I can see that you are upset; I would be upset too if I thought... . blah blah blah" .  But then temper it with the truth, which is that you did not choose to hurt them or cause them to feel X, Y or Z... . unless of course that was your intention.

In my experience, when they bring up hurt feelings from incidents from years ago, this is their round-about-way of trying to deal with feelings that they have right now but cannot find the justification for these feelings in the present.  So they need to find their reason for these feelings in the past.  There is a good chance that the reason why they are feelings whatever they are feelings has more to do with their disorder than anything else.  But they cannot accept their feelings are disordered in nature; they cannot accept that their feelings are disordered, so they choose to blame us.

The problem might be that your BPD loved one *requires* you to regret doing whatever it is they are blaming you... . in a way they are requiring that you *take responsibility* for how they feel.  And as I see it, the more you are willing to take responsibility for their (disordered) feelings, they more they are only going to try to offload to you.  This is their delusion -- that they can some how "be cured" of their disorder by pretending they don't have a disorder and that you are to blame for their disordered feeling.  In a way, by "accepting" their delusion, we may only be enabling them to entertain more distorted thinking.

Then again, we are not their therapist.  So why is it our responsibility to point out that their thinking is in some way disordered?  Especially if they are not open to hearing this from us in the first place?

Best wishes, Schwing

[Cipher13]

I too would like to know more about contoling this better.  I know now that I have casue 1/2 of the problems I am facing by caving in and doing and saying what ever she is needing. Apologees if over text or email are imediately requied to be in person or neither are valid. Also if I am reminded that I didn't apologize, then I can not apologize at that point because she brought it up. I let this happen.

The old tried a true "I can see that you are upset: I would be too... . "  that is like gas on a fire. I can't use that it drives her to get even more angry.

I too deal with the baggage of years ago. The apologies from stuff I did and owned up to 10 plus years ago. Then there are things that make no sense. Like I am putting dishes away and she says come with me to the other room I want ot hang out. And I say let me finish putting these away. So i need then to apologize for being mean and hurting her fellings. So I admit I could have been nicer and apologize. 3 days later that  is still an issue along with a new minor thing. All still tied to the past.

[schwing]

I too would like to know more about contoling this better.  I know now that I have casue 1/2 of the problems I am facing by caving in and doing and saying what ever she is needing. Apologees if over text or email are imediately requied to be in person or neither are valid. Also if I am reminded that I didn't apologize, then I can not apologize at that point because she brought it up. I let this happen.

If you are not allowed to apologize after she brings it up, then she isn't really looking for you to apologize.  She is just looking for you to accept blame and responsibility for her (disordered) feelings.  I don't see how you can "control" your BPD loved one in this matter; they are choosing to use a distorted and dysfunctional method for dealing with their own disordered feelings.  The best you can do is decide to what degree you want to be exposed to this behavior, or to what degree you want to enable it. 

The old tried a true "I can see that you are upset: I would be too... . "  that is like gas on a fire. I can't use that it drives her to get even more angry.

 

Is your goal to make her less angry?  What if her anger has nothing to do with you, and it has only to do with her disorder?  Can you take that away from her?  Perhaps she only chooses to blame you for her feelings?

When you tell her that you see that she is upset and that her upset feelings were not caused by you... . that would infuriate her, because it is taking away her *delusion* that her upset is justified. 

Have you noticed that whenever you do accept all the blame and apologize for doing things that you did not necessarily do, then she looks like she feels better?  She feels better because you are subscribing to her delusion, thus reinforcing her delusion.  And perhaps you can do this for a while, but be wary that at some point you might start buying into the distortion yourself.

I too deal with the baggage of years ago. The apologies from stuff I did and owned up to 10 plus years ago. Then there are things that make no sense. Like I am putting dishes away and she says come with me to the other room I want ot hang out. And I say let me finish putting these away. So i need then to apologize for being mean and hurting her fellings. So I admit I could have been nicer and apologize. 3 days later that  is still an issue along with a new minor thing. All still tied to the past.

All tied to the past, according to her.  Actually perhaps that is true, her feelings originate in the past, but not the past with you but even before you.

No amount of being nicer and apologizing will take away their mental disorder.

Best wishes, Schwing

[Cipher13]

Is your goal to make her less angry?  yesWhat if her anger has nothing to do with you, and it has only to do with her disorder? she always atributes it me even though I know better Can you take that away from her? Neve been successful with that Perhaps she only chooses to blame you for her feelings? 100% agree with that

You bring up some good points and good questions Schwing.

When you tell her that you see that she is upset and that her upset feelings were not caused by you... . that would infuriate her, because it is taking away her *delusion* that her upset is justified.  Yes I know this to be a fact

Have you noticed that whenever you do accept all the blame and apologize for doing things that you did not necessarily do, then she looks like she feels better?  She feels better because you are subscribing to her delusion, thus reinforcing her delusion.  And perhaps you can do this for a while, but be wary that at some point you might start buying into the distortion yourself. 110% true there. I have found if I can convincingly give in to everything she completelt changes and "click" she is brand new again

[karma_gal]

I love this thread and there's so much good stuff in here, you guys!

The validating isn't working for me, either.  I've been trying it since I arrived here and read over the tools.  In fact, it has the complete opposite effect on my H.  When I have tried it, he escalates so quick it's scary, screaming at me to quit patronizing him, telling me to quit being condescending, he doesn't want to hear my psychobabble BS.  So I have learned that that isn't a method that's going to work for me!

Like the others, I have had a tendency in the past to get so sick of things being drug on and on and on that I've just said, Fine, I take the blame.  It was all me.  It did work to calm him down, but it also set up a scenario where he now expects that I will take the blame for everything all the time.

I got sick of doing that about a year ago, though, and have stopped taking the blame for stuff that isn't mine to deal with and pushing it back on him.  It has made my life 20 times worse because he is pushing back like you wouldn't believe.  I have upset the status quo that has been in place for many years and he is not coping well at all.  In fact, I'm pretty sure he really hates me at this point because I just am not playing the same old game anymore and the old ways of coping aren't working for him anymore.  I'm not sure how this is going to end up.  I know if we choose to stay, we have some level of responsibility to keep things from escalating, but I'm no longer willing to accept the blame for things I didn't do and it's not helping matters any. 

Right now, I hear him out, figure out if I really have anything to do with what he's griping about.  If I do, I apologize sincerely -- no "but" with my apology -- and tell him I will make sure not to do it again.  If it has nothing to do with me and it's all him, I just tell him that he's going to have to figure out how to work through it and I leave the room. 

Like I said, it has made life way worse in so many ways, but I feel a lot better because I felt slimy and ticked off for so long for shouldering the blame for things that weren't mine to worry about.  I was so sick of being made to apologize for things I didn't do just to have some semblance of peace.  Those days are behind us; what lies ahead is what worries me. 

[oblivian2013]

I have been thinking about this since my T asked me last week about what I would have done differently. Had I know about BPD what  know now I am thinking perhaps if I began validation etc., early on in the idealization phase perhaps it might have worked? Instead of waiting until the hating phase when all bets are off? I don't know about the disorder to say. So, today we agreed that there was not much I could have done differently because I no clue of her exact nature until it was over three years later.

[schwing]

The validating isn't working for me, either.  I've been trying it since I arrived here and read over the tools.  

I think from the pwBPD's perspective, having their disordered feelings validated isn't as big a pay-off as having their distorted perspective accepted.  When we accept their distorted perspective, we are re-enforcing their delusion.  But when we just validate their feeling, we are just telling them that we accept that they have these strong feelings; whether or not they are founded on distorted perspective is up to them to decide.  Validation is like methadone for their heroin.  An addict's going to want to have heroin unless they're committed to recovering.

In fact, it has the complete opposite effect on my H.  When I have tried it, he escalates so quick it's scary, screaming at me to quit patronizing him, telling me to quit being condescending, he doesn't want to hear my psychobabble BS.  So I have learned that that isn't a method that's going to work for me!

Seems to me that he has trained you to revert back to the behavior that works better for him.  Look up "extinction burst."  When you try to change your behavior to one that works better for you, they may resist and act out in an effort to push you to reverting back to the prior behavior.  If we have a tendency to back down whenever they get angry enough, then they learn to always be angry until we change our behavior to what suits them.

Validation as a tool is as much a tool for us, as it is a tool to help us manage them.  By validating their feelings but *not* subscribing to their distorted perspective, we *validate* our own perspective.  Because if we accept their blame, we are in essence, *invalidating* ourselves, and that is a cut to our self worth.  You don't want to die by a thousand cuts.

Like the others, I have had a tendency in the past to get so sick of things being drug on and on and on that I've just said, Fine, I take the blame.  It was all me.  It did work to calm him down, but it also set up a scenario where he now expects that I will take the blame for everything all the time.  

He trained you to this position.  It will take some effort for you to change your behavior to something that works better for you.  Expect him to resist that change.  And if you find you cannot do it alone, get help.

I got sick of doing that about a year ago, though, and have stopped taking the blame for stuff that isn't mine to deal with and pushing it back on him.  It has made my life 20 times worse because he is pushing back like you wouldn't believe.  I have upset the status quo that has been in place for many years and he is not coping well at all.  In fact, I'm pretty sure he really hates me at this point because I just am not playing the same old game anymore and the old ways of coping aren't working for him anymore.  

Delusions are there to protect the fragility of the deluded.  If you take away his protection, he may become desperate.  But this is his cross to bear.  You were not put on this earth to shield him from reality.

I'm not sure how this is going to end up.  

How it ends up is in part up to you, but also in part up to him.  Just be cognizant of the choices he makes even though he does not vocalize these choices.

I know if we choose to stay, we have some level of responsibility to keep things from escalating, but I'm no longer willing to accept the blame for things I didn't do and it's not helping matters any.  

You are responsible to yourself.  You are not the sole person responsible for when things escalate.  They cannot hold us responsible for how they feel, especially when the primary source of their feelings is their disorder.  If he makes the choice to act out on his disordered feelings, are you responsible for taking care of yourself or are you responsible for taking care of him?

Right now, I hear him out, figure out if I really have anything to do with what he's griping about.  If I do, I apologize sincerely -- no "but" with my apology -- and tell him I will make sure not to do it again.  If it has nothing to do with me and it's all him, I just tell him that he's going to have to figure out how to work through it and I leave the room.  

See how many behaviors he requires you to change.  If you find yourself changing and changing but he never seems to get better.  Or even worse, he seems to be only acting out more.  Then ask yourself, are you sure he knows what he's talking about?  Are you certain it is your behavior that needs to change and not his?

Like I said, it has made life way worse in so many ways, but I feel a lot better because I felt slimy and ticked off for so long for shouldering the blame for things that weren't mine to worry about.  I was so sick of being made to apologize for things I didn't do just to have some semblance of peace.  Those days are behind us; what lies ahead is what worries me.  

Let me rephrase your statement: since you stopped accepting his blame, *he* has made your life way worse in so many ways.  You should not have to subscribe to a delusion in order to maintain the peace.  :)elusion does not work for you, only time will tell if he decides that he cannot do without it.

Best wishes, Schwing

[Cipher13]

Schwing

Wow supper great advise and comments. Thank you.

Karma_gal your explanations read liek they were from teh story of my life also. Aside form only one thing. Leaving the room. I have tried that 2 times with nearly equally horrible results.  I time I told her i was done witht e yelling and going outside for a while. As i tried to put on my shoes in the bedroom she blocked the door wioth her body. I did not touch her and just sat on the bed until it calmed down.   The second time we wer going to go to a T apt. She was adimit about not going I said I was and hoped she would join me. As I decided to leave to get in the car she put herself between me and the car door. Again I went inside until it calmed and evetually we did go.

[Tolou]

Good question!

For me when I was being blamed for things I didn't do or say, sometimes I would just admit to it to defuse the situation but I saw that wasn't helping me or her.  The best thing to do is to listen to their version of their reality and label and validate that but let them know that is not your reality or your interpretation of the events that took place.  Part of the disorder is making themselves the victim, so they can change bits and pieces of story to make themselves continue to be the victim, intheir minds they believe it, so it is true.

I don't think it wise to take fault for false blaming, don't palce blame either.  Instead, be calm, be rational, own your own truth, not theirs!

[maxen]

excellent thread altogether. apologizing endlessly, accepting blame for things that were half my fault or not at all, these have been life problems for me which of course were hugely exacerbated in a marriage to a pwBPD. thanks to everyone who has posted above.

[Cipher13]

I have accomplished the ability to figure out how to stop the over aplogizing. I am still apologizing for things that I actually take blame for from 11 plus years ago along with now saying something that hurts her feelings. Like I do not want to do that right now or some other thing that goes agains the grain but a normal person would let slide without the smallest hesitation.  And now what is she looking for form me in the way of an apology... . In her words. "I want an apology that moves me to tears. One that shkes me to the core. One that makes me not doubt anything you have ever said or done. So that I can beleive what you say and what you tell me."

It doesn't matter that I have tried this and aplogizes 100's of times. And that email apologies are only vailid if followed up by in in person apology. Same for testing. They mena nothing but are required none the less.  Then they are also to a level of if they are sincere or meaningful enough to accept.  Looking back I can see that not a single one ever was or ever will be.

[waverider]

Due to the low levels of empathy of a pwBPD their apologies are often shallow fleeting and do not represent total acceptance of responsibility. This is all they know, so they translate your apologies into carrying the same weight, so constantly want to be reassured.

What you said yesterday may not carry the same weight today, as this applies to their promises and apologies. Heartfelt and binding is not in their vocabulary. They need to know that you haven't suddenly developed an impulse that overrides previous apologies, this is their world.

[GopherAgent]

So the topic is "How do you handle accepting blame?".

Seems like I go through getting blamed in every conversation that my uBPDw has when she is upset or triggered by something that happens.

Having looked at this (BPD) and consider the possibility that BPD may be at the very root of our relationship and how it functions, I've had to look at the blame thing in a whole new light. It took years of reacting and acting wrong on my part to see that I was not functioning right and needed a reality check so to speak. Especially after she cut up and burned all of my clothes and was arrested just shortly after that. During her arrest, the officer said something that started me thinking about my situation. He said "People have a lot of problems in their lives. But normal people don't burn their partners clothes no matter how upset they are at them."

Notice I underlined "normal". I thought to myself... . He's right. This isn't normal!

So, when she came home and it got bad again I began to notice just how many times I got blamed for her feelings, her situation, her reactions to life, her failures, her abandonment, her ugly looks, her etc, etc. You name it... . I was responsible for it. Was she responsible for any of it? Of course not!

But I knew something different.

I knew that I was not as ugly as she told me I was. I knew I was different than the accusations. I realized that with the discovery of her possible BPD through my reading and looking at sites like this, that I was not her blame mat. There was a small glimmer of hope in me that said "I am supportive and understanding. I am compassionate and caring. I am a loving man to her." I realized that I am not to blame for everything she says about what I've done or she says I failed to do!

So, how do I handle the blame now.

Now I know these accusations are just that... . accusations. Not the TRUTH! I see now, they have been there from the start of our relationship and are no different today than 5 or 10 years ago or the day we got married 33 years ago. I was just too immature and not strong enough to see it for so long because I blamed myself for it all for so long. Not any more!

What freedom. I am only responsible for the actual things I did. I am not the blame for the vastness of her abandonment issues and self hatred.

In other words, I don't accept the "blame" any more! I am getting stronger. I am getting well. I am ME again even though she will never see ME.

That doesn't mean that she has changed one bit. That doesn't mean our relationship is any better or she sees her faults in herself any clearer. I still have difficult decisions to make and a difficult path to walk ahead... . with her or without her.

Not blaming myself anymore allows me to look to the future with a clearer perspective and a glimmer of hope that I can find someone who may actually love me for me and not "love" me by beating me with the blame hammer when her world falls apart.

[thicker skin]

Great answer Gopher 

In response to my partner trying to hold me accountable for what's happening in his mind, rather than my reality, this is what I've taken to saying :-

"I am responsible for me, my actions and my words. I am not responsible for you, your words, your actions or how you've chosen to perceive me. I will not accept blame or take any punishment for your perceptions any longer. Your opinion is not my truth"

I stop it there. He can choose to tell me that I'm in denial and call me nuts. I can choose to step away from the madness and listen to myself.

[Cipher13]

thicker skin

In your statement "I am responsible for me, my actions and my words... " what if it is your words that she is blaming you for? I'm not talking about saying nasty unpleasant things. I am saying when you make an abvious strate to the point comment about something or ask a question about if its ok you do this or that.  Quick example: sitting onthe couch talking about whats going on in this tv show. I said something that they were in group meeting about abusing there wife. She then gets hurt feelings and atributes what I said to refer to me wanting to abuse her... . I am never even so much as raise my voice when upset much less harm her.   Or another example day before our 12th aniiversary I asked if it would be ok to go out hunting for a couple hours the next morning or evening or the following day... . she thought I ment get a divorce and break up the marriage... .   those are the blames I get.

[waverider]

In your statement "I am responsible for me, my actions and my words... " what if it is your words that she is blaming you for? I'm not talking about saying nasty unpleasant things. I am saying when you make an abvious strate to the point comment about something or ask a question about if its ok you do this or that.  Quick example: sitting onthe couch talking about whats going on in this tv show. I said something that they were in group meeting about abusing there wife. She then gets hurt feelings and atributes what I said to refer to me wanting to abuse her... . I am never even so much as raise my voice when upset much less harm her.   Or another example day before our 12th aniiversary I asked if it would be ok to go out hunting for a couple hours the next morning or evening or the following day... . she thought I ment get a divorce and break up the marriage... .  those are the blames I get.

These are not accepting blame for saying something that was perceived wrongly, that is not your fault. These simply require clarifying what your intent was.

It is true though that you have to be careful of taking a stubborn stance and always denying you did wrong, on the assumption they are pwBPD and so must be at fault. Staying centered helps you see better when maybe you were not as right as you think you are.

Often apologies can be better replace with clarifications of simply "your interpretation of what I said/did is not the intent of what I said/did".

pwBPD like people to apologize to them, it is validating, so at times they will "manipulate" situations just to hear you apologize.

[thicker skin]

Cipher... .

You can say that you are sorry that they feel that way, but you don't need to apologise for something that you didn't intend. You really aren't responsible for someone else's perceptions.

Draw the line at that and don't get drawn in.

Misunderstandings happen, but if it's clearly been taken way out of context, don't fuel the fire.

Be a little firmer with the asking for permission too... . You are an adult. Politely inform her. If it clashes with another engagement, perhaps negotiate, but take care of your needs.

[rj47]

[/quote]
Often apologies can be better replace with clarifications of simply "your interpretation of what I said/did is not the intent of what I said/did".

pwBPD like people to apologize to them, it is validating, so at times they will "manipulate" situations just to hear you apologize.[/quote]
I found that begging forgiveness over things that never happened only set me up for continuous recycling of the events and more desperate apologies. I'm talking hundreds of times over 30 years causing me to question my own memories.

I've recently discovered that clarification works but she will viciously fight to redirect the discussion back to the perceived offense. By staying vigilant, on task and literally arguing that one inconsequential offense into the dirt I can sometimes get her to agree (as false as it might be) that we have to agree to disagree about those events. I hate it for the fact most of those trigger events have no meaning to me... . but do to her in the arsenal of serial accusations about events now decades old. So, I battle to a draw. She brings it up again, and I battle it to another draw. Eventually she gives up arguing the trigger event to focus on easier low hanging fruit.

They say; "never wrestle a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it". Sometimes I don't think there is a choice.

[Flashflood]

Often apologies can be better replace with clarifications of simply "your interpretation of what I said/did is not the intent of what I said/did".

[Flashflood]

I'm now at a point where the interpretation is irrelevant. I said something to be supportive, one word which spiraled into a rage, finally I clarified my intent when she was calmer, but then it became how I "handled" the situation -- basically trying to stop an exploding firehose without a valve. She said I should have clarified the moment I said what I said. The problem is, I did... . But she wasn't listening.

[Flashflood]

Now that it's all said and done, she's painted me black. 24 hours ago I was in a loving relationship and now it's completely one sided. She now knows the correct intent of what I was saying -- which was positive and supportive. -- but it doesn't matter.

Message in 3 parts -- just getting to know how to post here... .

[elemental]

probably she needs some time to calm down and for the upset to fade.

Let her have some space and while you are, try and work on some detachment. The detachment and self care, along with good boundries will help keep up a filter so this stuff doesn't go directly in and cause damage to you.

It sucks, I know. You did a good job for her, now do one for yourself. 

[outside9x]

I have a question before an answer is given. Does she know a BPD person?