do you think they believe the stuff they project on us?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

hi all,

when the break up started, my SO BPD started to email me (as i would not answer the calls) saying that i basically did to her what she actually did to me. The blame was on me and never on her... . but what was interesting is the accuracy of her projections... i did not insult her nor told her how hurt i was with her attitudes... . however she told me those things many times... . etc.etc... she told me stuff i cant believe she has the guts to say!  how can she believe that?

i know projections are a self defense mechanism BPD's have in order to blame someone else from their own behaviours so they can be at peace with themselves... .   i find hard to accept they actually believe that.

my question is: do they believe this? do they really believe this?  is their mind so twisted that they convince themselves we are the ones who hurt them?

please provide your insights... thank you

[growing_wings]

hi all,

when the break up started, my SO BPD started to email me (as i would not answer the calls) saying that i basically did to her what she actually did to me. The blame was on me and never on her... . but what was interesting is the accuracy of her projections... i did not insult her nor told her how hurt i was with her attitudes... . however she told me those things many times... . etc.etc... she told me stuff i cant believe she has the guts to say!  how can she believe that?

i know projections are a self defense mechanism BPD's have in order to blame someone else from their own behaviours so they can be at peace with themselves... .   i find hard to accept they actually believe that.

my question is: do they believe this? do they really believe this?  is their mind so twisted that they convince themselves we are the ones who hurt them?

please provide your insights... thank you

[CoasterRider]

I'm new to all this but from what it seems, yes they absolutely do believe it, someone told me with a Borderline, facts are replaced with feelings and perceptions are absolute. With that said I've also been told their "truth" can change from moment to moment as feelings change therefore their perception changes with it. I think the whole disorder is one giant defensive mechanism as a subconscious way to deal with painful and traumatic emotions from the past they have stuffed so deep and have refused to deal with.

[growing_wings]

thanks CoasterRider... .

yes, what you say makes sense... . i have witnessed the change in perceptions from one moment to the next one too.

i guess this part is hard to accept, that we hurt so much as we see the truth, but they dont hurt as they replace facts with their distorted perceptions of the truth. they project and we are the ones seen as the bad ones, or unstable ones.

this one is a difficult one to swallow...

[myself]

My ex believes her projections. Much of her life is made of them. It's easier to do that than face herself. Better to have a series of scapegoats than find healthy ways to be free of it. There were times she knew that what she was seeing wasn't really happening, but would cling to her story instead of having the whole house of cards come down. If she admitted she had it wrong this time, what about those other times? She told me she intentionally hurt me. She did things I never did, but tells herself and whoever else that it was me doing them to her. Talking herself into believing her own lies. It ended the r/s.

[growing_wings]

myself... . what you write reflects my experience... . thanks for sharing.

easier to lie to themselves than facing the truth... . what a nice defense mechanism they have... . we are the ones left behind with the truth being smacked at our faces.

at some point i started to doubt my perceptions of the truth as she would twist the reality so much, blaming me for almost all what was going on... she told me i was being manipulative soo many times... that i was manipulating her, and that was destroying my self esteem, i was going down with it. They can be convincing when you are in the fog.

i know that in a way, knowing the they project stuff and that they twist the truth to their own benefit should help me to heal and know is not me... but i guess i am not there. I am still trying to make sense of her, to believe her... but seeing your replies helps me confirm that her behaviours and avoid to be recycled.

[Perfidy]

I'm really not sure what exactly happens in the mind of the other. Sometimes it seems that we experience almost exactly the same feelings about each other at the same time. It seems that way. When you think it's mirroring or projecting what's to say its not genuine? You both feel hurt. You both feel betrayed. You're both angry. There is absolutely no doubt that I was in a relationship with a borderline. I know she was very twisted and disordered in her thinking. I also know that I am currently not having a relationship with any disordered or non disordered people. I know that the only twisted thinking I have to live with is genuinely my own. I can do something about this.

[maxen]

yes, i think they really do believe their projections. beware the FOG, though, that does not make their projections true, even one bit.

[delusionalxox]

It is like a sort of vortex of mirroring with them.

By the end, I told my ex he was projecting stuff onto me all the time (it was blatant... . accusing me of infidelity and things like 'I know you are trying to move on' while having an affair at home... etc).

He admitted it for a short while but at the very end was saying 'it is you, the projections are all yours, you are bipolar (not true, I was misdiagnosed, he knew this) and bipolar is made of lies'    he even projected his projections onto me!

[irishmarmot]

I know that my expwBPD projected her behavior on me, there was one time she mentioned her deceit to me but would not elaborate on it so I do think they know right from wrong.   It's helpful to me to understand the mechanism involved.   That helps me to understand the futility of having contact with her.

[delusionalxox]

irish, mine seemed to 'flip' a lot between self knowledge and complete denial/projection.

He tried for a while to win me back after the affair/3 month abandonment. During some of that time he castigated himself, even calling himself things I wouldn't such as a 'loser' because he 'cannot support his family' etc. By the end he had flipped right back, his affair was my fault cos I had abused him for three years, I was a liar, insane, had damaged him blah blah. Total contradiction and no acknowledgement of his flipping.

[Monarch Butterfly]

Mine lives as if he does.

I lived with so many projections... . and it was useless to try to argue or point to the truth. On the other hand, I do think though he knows the truth, but refuses to accept it as is, and then decides to believe what he wants to. I don't think saying that he can't control what he does is a way to give him an excuse or to not hold him accountable for his projections. But trying to argue to that with him is useless. Once the new truth is accepted, that's all there is.

My word is useless... .

[loz1982]

I can so relate to all of this and it was and still the hardest thing to get my head around. I think it is why I sort of left the door open for him for so long after I left. My ex would say my parents are controlling interfering in laws when in fact he was the controlling interfering one. He would say I am so insecure and Im toxic but that is what he is. He said my parents are the cause of my lack of confidence not realising the way he treats me hardly inspires confidence. He would have times when he would say I love you and I miss you very very much, nothing holds much interest because you're not here, I was just taking in the relationship not giving, I have been reading up on controlling and I am reading about me, your opinions are important as mine, Im too defiant, Im a bit messed up from my upbringing etc and I would be like wow he is starting to see things but when I still couldn't tell him if I was coming home as I needed to see consistency in his behaviour its like Im happier not having you in my life, your naievty astounds me I have all I can take, I don't want your mum helping when we have a baby, wake up mate you still don't know what you f'ed up. Now does this sound like classic BPD?

[happylogist]

Maybe it depends on whether they are high or low - functioning. I am having problems

In my case, it was similar to Loz1982, a lot of contradictory statements in a matter of even days, sometimes with self-blame, but also often with lack of self-criticism.  For me it is very bewildering and still I struggle to understand which one is the truth and his actual thinking.

[loz1982]

Mine is def high functioning, great group of friends and runs his own chicken farm very successfully.

[delusionalxox]

Not to divert the thread but what would you call 'high-functioning'? Ex was very talented, had done loads of jobs and never stuck with them, got his PhD but took 2 extra years to do it (without doing much part time work in the meantime), would always claim to be 'overwhelmed' and 'busy', lots of projects starting that would never go anywhere, is still living at home with parents though has travelled a lot and appears capable on surface.

his ex colleagues told me he had a bad rep for being totally chaotic, which did not surprise me. He could not take responsibility for any mistakes and had a tendency to sulk and blow up (you don't say!  ) which in my opinion would mean he would not be able to cope with a full time academicjob.

He is childishly jealous of my full time (low paid) academic job but although he can do the research I just can't see him managing all the other routine crap. He would go nuts. He thinks he is too good for it all and can't handle people.

So I guess he is on the verge of 'low functioning'? Don't know really.

[sun seeker]

 Its self preservation for them. They have to believe your the bad one or they would fall deeper into there "black hole" of dispare. I caught all kinds of projection.  It was so odd to be told I was doing things that I never did but it was stuff she did.   huh... .

[Ironmanrises]

Yes.

[santa]

Yes.

+1

[Moonie75]

Those projections are good as full confessions once you see em coming!

A projection told me what she was going to do that very night!

One friday morning... .

Her: "I'm round at Liz's tonight for dinner, bottle of wine & girly night in. I'll be staying over so I can have a drink"

Me: "Ok no worries".

Her: "So you're free tonight to go out & drag some girl back here & ___ her senseless."

My 'projection alarm' nearly blew my frickin brains out!

So that night I drove by Liz's... . Surprise surprise, no sign of ex's car!

I head to a pub she's been spotted in few times lately. Find her holding court with a wealth of male disciples, including being sat quite cozily with a guy who's name she seemed to be mentioning a lot!

End of relationship girl! I'm gone! Oh yeah before I forget... . Thanks for telling me exactly what you had planned for your Friday night! Friday 13th to boot! Unlucky for some! 

[delusionalxox]

Wow, moonie75... . snap

out of the blue in May after a weirdly long silence an email saying 'I know that you must have moved on' and calls accusing me of infidelity and a weak joke 'leave your lovers and come and see me'

He had started an affair on May 23 and was (he later told me) 'trying to move on'. He projected the whole lot.

[delusionalxox]

sorry April 23. The weirdness started in May.

[nolisan]

My comment is "Who cares?"

The question is ":)o we believe their projections?" I know I did and suffered - started questioning my own reality.

[Pretty Woman]

Personally I think everything is in the moment. I was accused of not living in the moment and worrying about the future, ironically.

I think they believe whatever they say at the time. I heard BPD's have memories like elephants. From my experience they sure change as their NEEDS change. People who will NEVER speak to you EVER eventually contact you when they NEED to hear from you. I am living proof as of recent.

[loz1982]

Yes my ex said he will never under any circumstances contact me again and told me to do the same and blocked me on Facebook. A bit over a week later I hear from him, he unblocks me and of course silly me responds and that sets off a barrage of messages about my character, how my naieveness astounds him and he has had about as much as he can take of it. My ex has a long term funny effect on me though, he was very anal about cleaning, he would say things like that window hasn't been washed in awhile, anyway have been on a couple of dates with this guy, went around to his to have a drink and his house is wall to wall windows and you know what went through my head, how would you wash all of these! I asked him and he said thinks he would have to get a window cleaner in , how refreshing to see someone so much more laid back 

Questions off topic but has anyone's ex obsessed about an offhand comment you made over 6 months ago and bought it up a long time later. The type of comments that when the time came you would discuss them in more detail and come to a conclusion together, like mentioning my dad could help on the farm if he ever needed it and he brings it up later on down the track as a defence to show me my parents are intefering. Of course I would never tell my dad he could or my dad would never come unless asked, if my ex didn't want help fine but it doesn't warrant the reaction I had.

[delusionalxox]

I realised long ago but didn't quite take in, that what my ex said and what he did were two totally different things.

It's often said on here that one must look at the deeds not the acts. Strip away the dramatic soundtrack, all the 'nevers' and 'forevers' and lofty, patronising, sonorous sermons and lectures (or is that just my very 'narc' BPD who does that? ). These are people who bend with the wind, act out of impulse, fear and whatever obsession or dangling prize is dominating their consciousness at the time.

[Monarch Butterfly]

The question is ":)o we believe their projections?" I know I did and suffered - started questioning my own reality.

This is so true... . I'm still having trouble knowing exactly what the truth is or was.

[growing_wings]

These are people who bend with the wind, act out of impulse, fear and whatever obsession or dangling prize is dominating their consciousness at the time.

very true... . the issue really comes when we start believing them, at least i questioned my own sanity! can be a bit crazy making. this is one of the most destructive part of the relationship, I started questioning my own thoughts, and even my actions.

[growing_wings]

The question is ":)o we believe their projections?" I know I did and suffered - started questioning my own reality.

This is so true... . I'm still having trouble knowing exactly what the truth is or was.

couldnt agree more.