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Author Topic: Characteristics of co-morbid BPD and NPD?  (Read 882 times)
delusionalxox
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« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2014, 10:07:39 AM »

He is also an academic, a University lecturer who has taught Feminist Theory, issues of gender inequality and uses this to full advantage as a mask for 'a good man'.

Urgh... . sm15000 I work in the field of feminist theory and that makes me shudder.

Ex was a serial shagger too but HATED being reminded of it, projected it all onto me, etc. He would be casually scathing about women he shagged and dumped or used, making out that he 'never promised them anything'. He said the exact same thing about the woman he cheated on me with... . even though he moved in with her, let her 'look after him' and told her he 'might fall in love with her one day'... .  His big parting word to her was 'I never lied to you'... .    

These 'clever' abusers are the worst for creating a fragile screen of manipulative excuses for their behaviour. They create narratives which they use to protect themselves from guilt and also to gain allies. It is quite frightening because it is so easy to believe them at first. That I think is why they move on all the time to the next one. They need supply, supply fails eventually when they become abusive and their exploitation is discovered, so they have to find new supply and (particularly for men I think) a sob story about how THEY have been abused by a callous, crazy b*tch can lure in a certain type of woman.

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« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2014, 10:48:11 AM »

Bpd or Casanova disorder? Haha I hate every borderlines by all means.
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sm15000
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« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2014, 01:41:38 PM »

Urgh... . sm15000 I work in the field of feminist theory and that makes me shudder.

Delusional. . .believe me, this made me so, so angry - that he was using his knowledge as an 'advantage' like that, and at myself I suppose of falling for his bull (but he played an excellent part!).  In my nastiest thoughts, not nice, but I wanted to ruin his career.

Excerpt
These 'clever' abusers are the worst for creating a fragile screen of manipulative excuses for their behaviour. They create narratives which they use to protect themselves from guilt and also to gain allies. It is quite frightening because it is so easy to believe them at first

Definitely.  I mean, I realise now, I had my part to play in it - I knew he was a serial cheater when I met him but as you read so often about these types, his great side, was great. . .and I was so hooked to it, I ignored all that 

At the end, I remember him shouting at me "the trouble is with you, you don't want the man you met" - the serial shagger I guess!



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drv3006
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« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2014, 01:57:46 PM »

The NPD side came out in a tendency to intellectual arrogance, blatantly hypocritical moral lectures and philosophical monologues. He could not bear to be interrupted, and expected a mute audience for his words of wisdom  . He was an absolute master of projection. For instance, while cheating on me he accused me repeatedly of infidelity and delivered lectures to me about how to be 'free from hate' etc. He is a terrible dope addict but used to lecture me for my 'drinking problem' (I drink way less than the average British woman  ). He cannot tolerate guilt and shame, but feels deep down that he is a failure, had big dreams for himself and varies between blaming himself for failing in them (rarely) and lashing out at people who have 'let him down'. Thinks of himself as one of the 'pioneers' of his academic field, that he deserves accolades and an audience, treated me with incredible entitlement. At one point said I should be happy to be sharing my money and home with 'an artist'  .

He really was quite the nightmare wasn't he... . writing it down really makes me laugh, what the hell have I put up with for 3 years. I must be an angel... or a lunatic 

This is amazing to me.  I don't know what NPD stands for is but this sure is my guy.  Maybe we ahve the same one.  Mine likes to be gone for about a week.  Probably with you ha.  Just kidding.







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delusionalxox
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« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2014, 08:00:18 AM »

drv3006 oh you poor poor love if you are still with a guy like that.

I found that by the end his behaviour was getting better, he seemed more modest etc, less pushy, less controlling, no lectures.

I then found out that 2 weeks after that incredible period he began cheating on me with someone else. He didn't dump me until he had 'tried me out' another time (making me pay for him to come see me- being such an important 'artist', it wasnt' fair to expect HIM to pay for things, including food... . ) I found out later that as that visit 'didn't work out', he went home and decided to move in with her

When I found out about the affair months later (through facebook and some stupid admissions of his own... . he let her name slip while slagging her off to ME! She wasn't good enough for him either... . he had the nerve to criticise her for her addiction to dope, which he shared... . ugh total hypocrite that he was) he burst into tears like a kid,  then decided to blame me for 'corrupting him', in a tirade that lasted 3 hours.

This may be what you have got coming. Is yours an entitled artistic 'genius' who is too good to support himself? Beware, really. These narcs just cannot really love, they can only accept supply/reflection.
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delusionalxox
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« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2014, 08:00:56 AM »

by the way NPD = narcissistic personality disorder. Often coincides with BPD, especially (it seems) in men.
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drv3006
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« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2014, 10:44:29 AM »

[quote author=delusionalxox . Is yours an entitled artistic 'genius' who is too good to support himself? Beware, really. These narcs just cannot really love, they can only accept supply/reflection. [/quote]
No, he is not an artistic genius.  He just is an intellectual and reads many books on Buddha and quotes to me all the things that he and Buddha do together.  Text after Text after Text Which by the way he never has done any thing Buddha, Jesus, Zeus or any "higher power' suggests.  He just likes to tell others to do it and then point out when they don't.  Its awful.   He blames everyone for everything.   Is not accountable for anything.  And doesn't pay for anything, unless it makes him look good and the people he normally doesn't see.  He begs for compliments, tells me that i am mean and harsh and that I use labels cause i say words like boundaries and engage.   He thinks those are label words.  He on the other hand can call me a c#nt, stupid, brainless, fake, liar and on and on.  Those are not labels to him though.  He is quite brilliant but he never ever shuts up and I can't get a word in edgewise.   Ever!  He says I try to control the conversation.  I get blasted when I speak blasted when I don't but I am the controller.  He talks about material things all the time but has none and if you told him we were living on planet earth he would somehow try to philosophy (if that's a word) on how we may or may not live on earth.  And he projects his crap onto me ALL THE TIME and its awful.  Sometimes I can hardly keep from laughing or slapping him upside the face and saying ":)ude this is You"   Don't call them Crazy.  They don't like it.  ha  And he can take a casual conversation about what happened at the grocery store and two weeks later turn me and that grocery store conversation  into the biggest strumpet in the laxative aisle Sigh
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delusionalxox
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« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2014, 01:51:37 PM »

oh bloody hell... . drv3006... . yep it's a version of my ex... . he had also flirted with Buddhism and used to lecture me on accessing wisdom etc. It's hilarious because he is a total thrill seeking sex and dope addict. He saw my depression as a personal failing, I had failed to access Nirvana as he clearly had  . He reckons he is a polymath- he's very talented, but  not the great thinker he reckons he is.

His hypocrisy was/is just astonishing. He made me pay for a week to come see him when he had already started an affair. I later found out that he was testing me out, if the week had 'gone well' (ie I had fed his ego enough) he would have dumped his new gf. But it didn't so when he went home he dumped me (for being a 'psycho', apparently) and moved in with her 'as a friend'  .

I remember him sitting on my bed that week quoting 'This is Water' by David Foster Wallace and exclaiming 'yes! That is how I try to live my life'!

I should laugh at that but the hypocrisy is so blatant it is sickening. A piece of writing about putting yourself in others' place, appreciating how hard it is for others... . and he was using me financially and screwing someone else all that time. That kind of sums him up for me.

Oh and begging for compliments... . he didn't beg... . he actually COMPLAINED whenever anything I said about him was NOT A COMPLIMENT. He expected and demanded no less than worship and total allegiance.

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drv3006
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« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2014, 02:55:38 PM »

Delusion,

yeah, mine likes to tell me everything that's wrong.   I have know idea if he is cheating but he has exchanged numbers with a woman because, well, I was not around.   He takes anything in my life and uses it against me.   I told a story of highschool (I am in my late 40s) and that came up in a conversation two weeks later. 

Yesterday was spent in a tangle of text wtih me telling him I was not going to listen to suicide stuff.  He  doesn't understand that I hang up the phone when he goes nutso.  he don't like me hanging up or blocking his number.   I got 200 text one day.  Don't get me wrong.   I have played the game but it stinks.   If his kidney was failing and I cut out my kidney and gave it to hiim or anyone else he wanted me to, the next day I could say something like, "do we have to talk about your ex at every dinner"   And that kidney I gave him would be totally forgotten.   I would be worse than his ex wife.   And I am awful because of where I work and the world is so stupid.  Yeah, mine gave me a book on Fear.   Told me I needed to read it.   He talks through movies and everything.  Never shuts up.  Never.   He will call me on the phone and I can hear him eating and he will say nothing.  And gets upset when I want to get off the phone.  I don't really want to hear you chew.  Or I can be on the phone with him for two hours and he will be upset that I want to get off the phone.   But the worst is when he tells me I am mean and malice. when he has made we think he was gonna kill himself threatned my  job and all kinds of stuff I am sure you are familiar with.  I don't know.  But he misses and loves me.  I get that all the time.  I miss you.  Really,
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drv3006
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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2014, 03:16:25 PM »

' Perhaps the thing I hate the most is when he set me up to confide in him all my personal details of past experiences. At that time I didn't know he was ill and so couples will share their history together sometimes but had I known that he was collecting data to use against me from now on, had I known his illness I would never have confided in him anything that could be used against me. '

Oh God Surrender it made me shudder to read that... . all the confidences I gave him during pillow talk and moments of intimacy... . things he would say nothing about or accept, and then use as part of his arsenal to condemn me... .

WOW  That is the worst! That and then after they throw it in your face every intimate detail that happened to you when they weren't even around you--then they have the nerve to  say "You can't get over the past"  When you tell them anything that has to do with the current relationship.   And the Projection.  I just don't know how to deal anymore.  Its stupid.
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Calm Waters
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« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2014, 02:44:53 AM »

at the start of my relationship with my ex BPD gf i told her everything as i wanted no secrets, over the course of the relationship she often said she couldn't trust me as a result of my honesty, then when she tried suicide it came out that there was a shed load she hadn't told me about her past, her debts, etc etc!
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Surrender
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« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2014, 09:32:41 PM »

at the start of my relationship with my ex BPD gf i told her everything as i wanted no secrets, over the course of the relationship she often said she couldn't trust me as a result of my honesty, then when she tried suicide it came out that there was a shed load she hadn't told me about her past, her debts, etc etc!

It is a real learning curve because I think the mistake we all make being nons is that we 'react' like normal people and then argue like normal people only it all goes awry and gets twisted up. Then we are left wondering What the heck just happened and stay in that What the heck just happened state for a long time until finally one day we figure out that they are really ill and begin to put it together.

I recall not telling my guy anything about my past right at the beginning. He fell in love with me and kept asking for a year. After a year I finally divulged my entire past (which really isn't anything bad and is if anything rather normal). He seemed so receptive and open so I felt safe revealing more to him. He kept his composure and hid EVERYTHING he was feeling and thinking from me for a few weeks until one day with one of his emotional dysregularity bouts he began spewing that I was a whore just like all the rest and that I had no respect for myself. Suddenly he kitchen sinked everything I had done and passed judgement on me saying no self respecting woman would blah blah blah.

That is when the shaming began and he would interject my past and how that reflected on the person I am today as though it was one and the same... . as though the thing I did 20 years ago is still a reflection of the person that I am today in his eyes. He told me that he would NEVER have stayed with me had he known that at the beginning, that I would be a write off but because he had already fallen in love with me he made concessions. That only with me had he learned to accept that we all have a past including himself. I forced him to look at his own deeds and flipped it all on him. I kitchen sinked him and made sure to make him look long and hard on his experiences which were fare more meaningless and whorish than mine.

I've listened to him bring this into almost every emotional dysregularity he goes through because these are his triggers only I don't give a damn and he knows it. I refuse to give him two seconds of my 'listen' when he goes off about my past or his or anyone else's. He has learned to accept that we are all the same and no one has the right to judge anyone especially when we all have a past and are looking for comfort in this life.

I've seen changes in him but mostly because I refuse to let him shame me or use any of my past against me. I throw it back on him and he then becomes shamed with himself by the time I'm done. He obsesses about what he thinks are 'leads' that he collects to use against me because for the longest time he wanted to find anything to use against me so that he could justify his feelings of 'mistrust' and 'fear'.

After 3 years he is calmer now especially because he has been diagnosed but that all came about because I made it impossible for him to deny his illness. I presented all of his imbalances when he was stable and explained how he twisted everything up when he was dysregulated. I did this enough times that even though he fought me for the majority of the time and truly tried to project it all on me, eventually he couldn't help but to look at himself until one day he went and sought help and accepted his diagnosis.

He began to see things through my eyes because I wouldn't let him live in his twisted world of denial. I wouldn't allow him to twist me inside his twisted kingdom in an attempt to 'control' his own madness and placate what he knew and felt was completely off within himself. I wouldn't allow him to shield himself with all of his devices, living at home with parents, quitting jobs, trying to control me, trying to project all of his own fears onto me. I laid it all out for him plainly to see and was willing always to walk away if he wanted to play denial.

He is now on a rampage to try and do what ever it takes for him to be as 'normal' as possible and to regulate his moods and thoughts as much as is possible understanding that it is maintenance only and not a cure.

It's a long hard road... . but maybe there are some things that we can do differently to affect them the way they need to be effected. Maybe we need to put it all back on them in order for them to see things more clearly. 
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Calm Waters
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« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2014, 11:00:17 AM »

see above
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Calm Waters
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« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2014, 11:14:44 AM »

Surrender I admire your tenacity and fortitude, I tried to put it back on her after she went NC with me, i sent her a long e mail about what i had discovered about npd / BPD and recognised that we both had traits. Given that she maintained that she had been trying to heal i thought she would be open, how wrong was I! I went around to talk to her, she slammed the door in my face and called the police! in her case sadly she is so defended that she would clearly rather die than face her issues, hence the suicide attempt driven by narcisistic rage after I left her. I genuinely and lovingly wanted to help her, but if I then refer to the lonely child ( me ) BPD analysis elsewhere on the site it perfectly explained that it was impossible at this point for us to go back sadly. I dont think about her as much now a year on but the episode nearly destroyed me.

Here is the quote, its the most accurate i have found - In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.*Both need saving* Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone.  This is one type of bonding seen in this community.

In this bond, both people bring core trauma to the relationship. Mirroring reenacts the earliest childhood experiences to rise up and emerge into consciousness.

In idealization, there is a dual identification and projection for both people that they have found a perfect love- however, one partner (the “lonely child”) does not yet realize that the other partner (the abandoned child= Borderline) has no whole self- and is utilizing a fantasy of a part-time good in order to fuse with the partner's part time good and become one.

The lonely child has spent much of their life becoming “one.”  When a lonely child finds an abandoned child, both parties feel needed. However, rather than truly loving the individuality of both parties- the sad, fantasy aspect of mirroring magnifies the unhealthy *needs* of both people.

When the lonely child begins to question the reality of mirroring (reality testing) this raises core traumas into activation concerning both the questioning (uncertainty) and the hope (unfulfilled expectations) of the unrealistic attachment. "Lack of inherent trust" is found in both parties at this stage.

Reality testing causes the lonely child to pull away because certain things don't add up- as you say, "the idealization phase slowly erodes."

Pulling away, even while in the lap of comfortable luxury- triggers the abandoned child issues of the Borderline. This causes panic reactions of clinging behaviors by the Borderline to prevent the retreat of their desired love object. These immature demands can look like entitlement to others, especially to a lonely child, who has learned early on to be self sufficient and to self soothe- but the entitlement markers are highly charged and emotional to a Borderline, which isn’t Narcissistic grandiosity- it’s ego deficiency and panic.

The entitlement phase brings a hidden "angry and aggressive child" out from hibernation and into full view and this usually occurs when the lonely child least expects it.  The angry child that emerges is pissed and has delusions of persecution that are ideas of reference from earlier childhood trauma. It’s at this point that the angry child (Borderline) will become enraged and try to cast off shame.  They may attempt to harm himself/herself in order to scapegoat the lonely child- who unwittingly stands-in for the earliest attachment.  This triggers the lonely child's trauma from their earliest attachment as well.

The Borderline wants so badly to be whole that they demand that the lonely child create wholeness for them- which the partner succeeds in doing early on but then relaxes. The Borderline temper tantrum, with its ideas of reference being so very childlike and fantastic, perceives the relaxation of the partner as though the attachment is split up. In order to cope, the Borderline must now find another part time perceived good object to self medicate the emotions of feeling badly from the split.  If this cannot be accomplished, the surge of limbic fear concerning anger and abandonment causes such great pain that self harm is often inflicted for relief.

The lonely child is often very surprised by this. The anger and dysregulation are in contrast to what he/she perceives are necessary for the circumstances. (The lonely child fails to see need disguised as "love."  Therefore, the lonely child seeks to understand the Borderlines ideas of reference concerning "love" in order to cope with the neediness and begins a line of questioning.  The Borderline retreats.

Lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.

The lonely child *understands* the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline.

In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand.  This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

The Borderline is a perfect template with which to Header and identify with as a good object and also one to invest in to feel better about the “self.”

The understanding driven lonely child "imagines" (projects) onto the Borderline what he/she feels the Borderline identifies with. The lonely child often fills in the blanks with projective identification and the Borderline attempts to absorbs this- but it's impossible to appear as a self-directed person while taking cues and mirroring another self directed partner.

The Borderline scrambles to keep up with what is projected in a chameleon like manner.  All of this pressure to adapt and conform to the projection smothers and defeats the Borderline’s yearning for a perfect bond and triggers engulfment failure. 

Engulfment also means loss of control, annihilation fantasies and shame.  Shame activates the punitive parent that resides in their inner world, their psyche. The attachment failure has now become shame based for the Borderline.  It will soon become guilt driven for the lonely child partner.

Engulfment makes Borderlines very frustrated and angry- but Borderlines fear abandonment and choose to stuff away their fear and compulsively attempt to manage their pain. The impulsive gestures are a form of self harm that fixes the bond in a permanent chaos of action/reaction. 

Borderlines can be avoidant and passive aggressive and will do everything in their power to hide their strong emotions until they implode.  They swing wildly from abandoned child to angry child until they deflate into detached protector- who is basically a mute that doesn’t speak- or worse, speaks in word salad when confronted.

The swinging dysregulation pattern is unable to be separated and individuated and self directed. Because it cannot be self directed, it cannot be self soothed. There is no ability to defer these emotions to logic and reasoning with introspection *without* another person to blame.  This is where Borderlines are showing you the maturity stage at which they are developmentally arrested and remain stuck and frightened.

Quote

Devaluing is the BPD going into the punitive parent role to switch up the control ~ control was relinquished in the idealisation phase so we will attach. The further along we get in the rs ~ the BPD then feels like we are the persecutor for their failing part time self ~ devalue. Devaluing is more about projection ~ because there failing self makes them feel woeful, scared, fearful.

We all have punitive parents that exist in our heads. This is our Superego.  The criticism felt by both parties exists as guilt and shame inside our heads. This tape plays over and over and is a re-working of former traumas. It is also a huge part of what makes complementary traumas so attractive as binding agents to each other.  The lonely child has the “tyrannical shoulds” while the abandoned child has defectiveness schema- together they interact and drive each other crazy.

The understanding driven child cannot fathom how another human being does not have a “self.”  The understanding driven child has had much childhood experience with strong selves and has created a self to understand the motives of others. Lonely children have a need to have some sort of control over their destiny because so much was out of control in their childhood.

The Borderline’s idea of destiny is being attached to others for protection. The Borderline cannot fathom what it means to have a stand alone “self.”

Both parties are human “doing” for others rather than being- but there is more impulsivity in Borderline in the “offering” of themselves as objects.  (The lonely child is very particular concerning who he gives his heart to and makes decisions based upon careful consideration.)

The failure to find a healthy mature love activates the punitive parent in both people’s psyche- one for persecution and the other for failure to understand others (cloaked in rescuing behaviors)- this is the “flea” of each others psychiatric trauma that really is a very strong obsessive bond, and one of endless victimization for both parties unless one or the other becomes understanding driven toward self direction.  Guess who has the best chance?  Unfortunately, the mirrored good that the Borderline provided was a very strong drug- and the obsession is outwardly projected (as it always has been) by the lonely child in order to understand and consequently, control it.

It’s at this point that spying, engaging in testing and push/pull behaviors occur as both parties fight for control. Each pours salt in the others core wound.

The understanding driven child tries to understand the Borderline and the Borderline feels misunderstood and persecuted. The understanding driven child retreats to repair their ego and the Borderline lashes out and tries to shame him. The pendulum swings back and forth in clinging and hating and disordered thought and chaos. 

The lonely child tries to uncover what they think the Borderline is hiding from them (triggering bouts of paranoia) or missing (creating dependency issues.)  The angry child threatens to destroy the relationship (as well as themselves = self harm) which triggers immense anger and outrage for both parties. Their love object is broken.

Both parties are in pain- and their egos are easy to "pinch" because they both fear abandonment.   At this point, both core traumas are exposed and the partners are no longer interacting with each other except to arouse each other’s trauma wounds from childhood.

The false self of the lonely child, that the Borderline mirrored, has more ego- as it is directly tied to a “self” which involves coping mechanisms from childhood that mirrored back good.  It was a self that was capable and seeming to have all the answers in the beginning.  When the Borderline tries to destroy it as a failed attachment, it begins to crumble and the lonely child retreats and tries to repair it- essentially wounded to the core. This is also part and parcel of the injury of the smear campaign- and the lonely child may try to return to defend the "self" from being attacked.

Trauma for the lonely child occurs mainly because of perceived failure they cannot “understand” enough (essentially an obsession at this point) and trauma for the Borderline occurs because of anger and abandonment and shame that existed since infancy- and persecution by their inner parent superego for not becoming whole. 

At this point, both parties feel like failures.

Unfortunately, the repair for the lonely child’s self consists of trying again to fix the Borderline "mirror" to reflect the good.  Many attempts will be made by the lonely child (once again) to effect an outcome other than the failed attachment.  The lonely child will try to re-build the self and get the love object (Borderline) to return and resume their compliant mirroring.

Eventually, the fantasy begins to unravel for the lonely child, that they are alone- and the person that the lonely child fell in love with, (the person in the mirror,) was actually YOU.

Who really is the Borderline? Someone who needed you for awhile because they were scared to be alone.

They’re still scared. Forgive them if you can- they are modern day recreations of their own childhood fears.

Now- after reading all of this- You can’t keep going back for more trauma.   The trauma bond must be broken.

After we've let fantasy go- we can turn the focus to healing.  It's good to wonder what our attraction must have been to this person. Whatever clues you have are generally good enough to give you reason that you’ve had experience with this type of personality before- perhaps within your family of origin.

Stop yourself from thinking that you’ve never been treated so poorly before this relationship. When you catch yourself saying you can't believe it. Stop and think. Chances are- you’ve just chosen to repress a few circumstances from childhood that were traumatic. Now the feelings are back on the surface and you’re going to have to address them.

Introspection involves a great pain. Let those feelings come up. Journal your thoughts when you feel anxious. Learn about yourself. We must address the pain from our childhood that has been left unresolved for too long. We cannot escape from pain if we are to have personal growth- and you've got to get this relationship out of the way in order to get at the real hurt.

Radical acceptance comes when you realize that what was mirrored really wasn’t you- it was what *you wanted others to give to you*   It was <<Understanding.>>

Try to give that to yourself.
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Surrender
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Posts: 178



« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2014, 03:39:43 PM »

Here is the quote, its the most accurate i have found - In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.*Both need saving* Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone.  This is one type of bonding seen in this community.

In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand.  This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

The Borderline is a perfect template with which to Header and identify with as a good object and also one to invest in to feel better about the “self.”

The understanding driven lonely child "imagines" (projects) onto the Borderline what he/she feels the Borderline identifies with. The lonely child often fills in the blanks with projective identification and the Borderline attempts to absorbs this- but it's impossible to appear as a self-directed person while taking cues and mirroring another self directed partner.

The Borderline scrambles to keep up with what is projected in a chameleon like manner.  All of this pressure to adapt and conform to the projection smothers and defeats the Borderline’s yearning for a perfect bond and triggers engulfment failure.  

Engulfment also means loss of control, annihilation fantasies and shame.  Shame activates the punitive parent that resides in their inner world, their psyche. The attachment failure has now become shame based for the Borderline.  It will soon become guilt driven for the lonely child partner.

Engulfment makes Borderlines very frustrated and angry- but Borderlines fear abandonment and choose to stuff away their fear and compulsively attempt to manage their pain. The impulsive gestures are a form of self harm that fixes the bond in a permanent chaos of action/reaction.  

The swinging dysregulation pattern is unable to be separated and individuated and self directed. Because it cannot be self directed, it cannot be self soothed. There is no ability to defer these emotions to logic and reasoning with introspection *without* another person to blame.  This is where Borderlines are showing you the maturity stage at which they are developmentally arrested and remain stuck and frightened.

Calm Waters after reading about the lonely child vs the borderline child I was frozen because I saw myself in everything that was written and I saw my guy and the perfect storm of our desperate love that clings for dear life. I don't know what to do with all that information at this point and I will have to re-read that many many times I fear because denial is powerful. What is confusing to me is this feeling of 'need' and 'love' and essentially the dynamic of feeling consumed by each other.

The strange thing is that we both recognized that we are essentially coming from the same place of 'need' and 'fear' in this life. He recognized that I am a wounded lonely child and I recognized that he is a traumatized emotionally underdeveloped scared child (BPD). We both speak of this often and try to figure out how we can come out of this so that we can have a healthier relationship together. Recently we have embarked on doing things for ourselves to make ourselves better and less dependent on one another. We have pulled away a little so that we attend to our own person. We have also put a boundary as to how we argue so as to stop the volatility from happening. We agreed that when we argue there will be no pushing, shoving, hitting/slapping (I tend to slap him in the face which is not anything I've ever done before him), there will be absolutely no physical contact. He told me that he feels safer being with women who he doesn't like but no volatility occurs rather than being with me who happens to be the one and only person in his life that pushes every fear button in existence inside him. Essentially I am the very thing that can drive him the craziest and push him to extremes and likewise.

So you can imagine when I read what you posted (and thank you so so much for doing that) I was flabbergasted because I was reading our story. Consequently my mother was a BPD narcissist who made my life a living hell until I moved out and perhaps that is why I find myself 'at home' with my guy? Perhaps it is because that is all I really know and my imperfect lonely child that existed with a gaping wound through life has found a home of acceptance with one that is also wounded in a similar manner while mirroring what I have become accustomed to in a relationship dynamic?

So much of this scares me because I honestly can't imagine a life without him and don't want to. It doesn't help that apart from him I AM ALONE in the world and have precious little in the way of any family or real life supports. Perhaps that is the reason why I have done with him what he does with me... . cling and depend. I'd like to want to need him instead and believe that we both are trying to heal on our own enough to give this relationship a chance. We have always said that we are family to one another and feel like not only are we family but we are lovers, companions, best friends and confidantes. The truth is the older I become the more depressed I am and the more abandoned and afraid I feel in this world. I don't know how to change that especially because I am left without family and in this way an orphan who has struggled just to survive a life of losses, disappointments and traumas with precious few resources and precious little security. Hence trauma bonding in the making with my perfect partner who also is a victim of life.

If this relationship fails will I walk into yet another set-up? I don't even know what to expect anymore but my dreams feel like they are dying and I'm not even sure if I know what hope is anymore because my spirit feels like it is despairing and wants to give up. It's been a long and lonely road in this world, one with very little love or security. In my mind there is nothing worse than that when you are alone fighting through this life that is hard and designed to destroy the have nots or the weak.

I don't see myself as weak but in terms of having no security, living pay check to pay check and only owning a car this amounts to precious little in the way of resources or security. If I become sick or something happens to me than I end up homeless and that terrifies me because it plays on my bankrupt upbringing and all the fears and trauma's associated with having been born into a world of struggle with only abuse as a template of understanding.

We are all trying to find our way through this world where real hard evidence of anything exists. I think we are always trying to overcome our secret fears and insecurities some more than others. I don't know if I'm right or wrong but I feel that with my guy I've found a place where I belong for once and perhaps that is my one and only comfort in this entire life of mine. Maybe I'm wrong? I don't really know because I'm far too wounded I think to maybe even do what I need to? All I know is that he is where my compass directs me to and in this he is the only comfort in my life and my stability as crazy as that sounds.

I do know that I need to re-read what you posted to me often because it will do a work inside me that it needs to. I can't thank you enough for putting that there for me as I have never read that before. I'm seeing a T but that isn't helping in the least, in fact people who tend to have a comfortable life have a really hard time understanding people who come from struggle and adversity.

I have all my needs met by the Grace of God, a job, a vehicle and a small comfortable suit so I am thankful. Should something happen to me that is when I'm hooped because I have no back up or savings. The world today is not what it was 30 years ago or even 20 years ago and people are struggling in every part of the world now. In the past we could strive for security but nowadays it's survival and the middle class has been eroded and virtually dismantled. I'm writing this because this reality plays havoc on those of us who have come out of traumatized lives and fear living without love and security. The world today provides the stage for us to continue being terrified and that is why many decent folk are breaking down.

So is there any hope that a lonely child and a BPD can have a decent relationship? Is our relationship solely enmeshment and constant objectifying of one another? Is there anything real in a Love there or are both simply just falling in love with the 'us we want to fall in love with'?

Out of all the huge fights which most people would end the relationship after we couldn't contend with the idea of leaving one another ever. He would become so overwhelmed emotionally and always say to me "I can't live with you and I can't live without you".

So much to think about I don't know where to begin anymore.











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Calm Waters
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: married living together
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« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2014, 06:24:35 AM »

Hi Surrender, Im pleased you found that useful, I read it often to remind myself what I was dealing with and allow me to come to terms with it. Good luck with your challenge I admire you for hanging in there
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