Validation

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I read about the need to validate the person with BPD for better communication, yet one of the biggest problems my ex-BPD-bf had with me was his accusations that I constantly needed validation from men. 

Because I have always been a friendly, outgoing person at work, I would always be friendly to people - male and female.  Obviously that changed over the years since meeting the ex as he accused me so many times of throwing myself at every man in the office (not REMOTELY true). 

So I realize that his saying I need constant validation is really him projecting his own needs onto me.  But why does he see it as such a bad thing?  In the past, I have never cared if any female gave my partner attention or flirted with him.  I have always felt secure in my r/s and if that attention gave my partners an ego boost, good for them!  But my ex equates getting "validation" or attention at all as paramount to cheating.  I suppose typing this out I realize that it's just his insecurity blown up to the Nth degree.

I think that once I am over this phase of life... . I will never want to hear the word validation again... .

[Take2]

I read about the need to validate the person with BPD for better communication, yet one of the biggest problems my ex-BPD-bf had with me was his accusations that I constantly needed validation from men. 

Because I have always been a friendly, outgoing person at work, I would always be friendly to people - male and female.  Obviously that changed over the years since meeting the ex as he accused me so many times of throwing myself at every man in the office (not REMOTELY true). 

So I realize that his saying I need constant validation is really him projecting his own needs onto me.  But why does he see it as such a bad thing?  In the past, I have never cared if any female gave my partner attention or flirted with him.  I have always felt secure in my r/s and if that attention gave my partners an ego boost, good for them!  But my ex equates getting "validation" or attention at all as paramount to cheating.  I suppose typing this out I realize that it's just his insecurity blown up to the Nth degree.

I think that once I am over this phase of life... . I will never want to hear the word validation again... .

[musicfan42]

I'm a friendly person too and have gotten accused of being too flirty at times in the past. But it's just so harmless as far as I'm concerned. It's banter. I like chatting to different types of people but I don't cheat, never have and never will. I'm a loyal person so I find it insulting to even be accused of being flirty. I just think "does this person not trust me?"

So I feel your pain here Take2.

This is not your fault.

It sounds like your ex has serious issues with jealousy and that's his problem, not yours. You have done nothing wrong! I also suspect that he's jealous because you're popular with people and he's not.

Flirting or chatting to someone is not the same thing as cheating... it's just not. You have a right to be able to talk to your co-workers without being accused of wanting to throw yourself at them. That's a boundary violation right there... restricting your right to freedom of speech and your right to have friendships and social interactions outside the confines of your relationship.

I don't really like the word "validation" either... it's so wishy-washy and ultimately means nothing.

You sound pretty clued in though Take2... you have a lot of self-awareness and can see right through your ex's behavior.

[seeking balance]

I read about the need to validate the person with BPD for better communication,

Validation that an emotion is real for them is what is meant by this in the communication tools.

yet one of the biggest problems my ex-BPD-bf had with me was his accusations that I constantly needed validation from men. 

This was probably a projection of his fears onto you.

So I realize that his saying I need constant validation is really him projecting his own needs onto me.  But why does he see it as such a bad thing? 

Let's really dive into projection - this was his FEAR, not about you.  Validating his fear is different than validating a false reality.  In DBT, they actually teach pwBPD how to challenge a thought, this is the skill you are describing and he just doesn't have that tool in his emotional toolbelt - he has projection instead.

In the past, I have never cared if any female gave my partner attention or flirted with him.  I have always felt secure in my r/s and if that attention gave my partners an ego boost, good for them!  But my ex equates getting "validation" or attention at all as paramount to cheating.  I suppose typing this out I realize that it's just his insecurity blown up to the Nth degree.

It is his basic fear of abandonment... . trying to compare your mindset to his is not an approach I found helpful in trying to understand.  Focusing on the facts, abandonment (real or perceived) - his reaction is rational based on the disorder -not based in a mentally sound person.

I think that once I am over this phase of life... . I will never want to hear the word validation again... .

Projection really is a tough one to overcome.  Once our traits we like or appreciate about ourselves are twisted and used against us, it hurts and frustrates.  I can appreciate for you "validation" feels icky now.

Peace,

SB

[fromheeltoheal]

The last weekend I was together with my ex I took her on an urban adventure in a big city.  The only thing that got validated the entire weekend was parking.

[arn131arn]

Heel, I just laughed so hard I pulled something down there!

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all

I know what I would like to do with the word validation right now, ARGHHHHHHH

[Moonie75]

My view is chatting is not cheating, neither is flirting.

Saying inappropriate things or behaving inappropriately, technically isn't cheating either. But it's the wrong side of the line for me!

What we & pwBPD measure as acceptable Vs not acceptable, just never lines up.

Two people finding mutual agreement on a topic they see so differently is always going to be hard. Add to that one of those people having double standards & disordered thinking... . Well, you got more chance of crossing the Atlantic on a biscuit, than finding mutual agreement.

[Turkish]

My view is chatting is not cheating, neither is flirting.

Saying inappropriate things or behaving inappropriately, technically isn't cheating either. But it's the wrong side of the line for me!

I mostly agree with this. Mine told me she exchanged numbers with a bouncer when I let her go clubbing with her gay cousins (mistake!) starting last spring. It was so she could help him find employment after he graduated college. I told her he just wanted one thing, and that line was BS. That crossed a line. She accused me of not letting her have male friends. No... . I never minded her telling me about the occasional interns at work she was sort of friends with, I'm not a jealous person. This time, however... . pretty sure this is the guy who turned into her paramour.

[MrFox]

Like you have realized and others have said, it was projection.  pwBPD seem to need validation from everyone around them, or at least the ones in my life have been that way.  Couple this with a fear of abandonment and you have the perfect recipe for accusations.

My exBPDgf was highly insecure about me and my interactions with any other female.  She accused me several times of suspecting that I was cheating on her (I didn't).  This was despite the fact that she was very flirtatious with other men in person and over social media and was one of those women who says, "I just get along better with men than women.", which I now consider a red flag.  When it was all said and done I came to realize that her accusations where a combination of her fear of abandonment and projection.  Turns out that she is a serial adulterer that has cheated on every person she has had a relationship with.  

[Turkish]

Like you have realized and others have said, it was projection.  pwBPD seem to need validation from everyone around them, or at least the ones in my life have been that way.  Couple this with a fear of abandonment and you have the perfect recipe for accusations.

My exBPDgf was highly insecure about me and my interactions with any other female.  She accused me several times of suspecting that I was cheating on her (I didn't).  This was despite the fact that she was very flirtatious with other men in person and over social media and was one of those women who says, "I just get along better with men than women.", which I now consider a red flag.  When it was all said and done I came to realize that her accusations where a combination of her fear of abandonment and projection.  Turns out that she is a serial adulterer that has cheated on every person she has had a relationship with.  

"You won't ever cheat on me, will you?"

"You won't ever leave me, will you?"

"You love me, right?" (this one constantly the first three years, then it tapered off).

Yes, major red flags... . she became the physical manifestation of all three.

[MrFox]

"You won't ever cheat on me, will you?"

"You won't ever leave me, will you?"

"You love me, right?" (this one constantly the first three years, then it tapered off).

Yes, major red flags... . she became the physical manifestation of all three.

It really amazing how many people on these boards can quote my ex almost verbatim.  She must have gotten around even more than I'm aware of

I heard all three of these in a number of variations all the time.

[Turkish]

"You won't ever cheat on me, will you?"

"You won't ever leave me, will you?"

"You love me, right?" (this one constantly the first three years, then it tapered off).

Yes, major red flags... . she became the physical manifestation of all three.

It really amazing how many people on these boards can quote my ex almost verbatim.  She must have gotten around even more than I'm aware of

I heard all three of these in a number of variations all the time.

Heh. I remember reading your intro and its not the same person. I will confess openly that I did go back and check the stories of two people here. Paranoia? Perhaps... . its eerie, but sadly validating for us nons.

[Moonie75]

Turkish,

I already know this is gonna resonate with you my friend...

My ex could obtain another mans mobile number in a time span so short, it could simply be described as 'astonishing'!

She did a part time college course (one night a week), and after just two classes had the numbers of quite a few guys in her class. She justified this as being for the purposes of exchanging ideas with assignments and swapping research sources etc.

(she didn't swap numbers with women on the course for any of these purposes... . Funny that!)

She began swimming twice a week at a local pool and within weeks had swapped numbers with the lifeguard there. Justified as wanting to take a life saving course & this guy was going to help her get on a course & give her helpful hints & tips.

(You fill in a form & turn up for first class, how hard can it be? And the hints & tips are surely best learned from the course tutor by listening to their teaching?)

Just two examples of number exchanges i found suspicious, and there are many more.

If obtaining men's numbers in rapid time by any means was an Olympic sport, my ex would be weighed down with gold!

MrFox,

I too heard the "I get on with men better than women" guff. Not being a jealous type I didn't flinch at this. I slowly got accused more & more of cheating, or wanting to cheat, often in the most innocent situations. (Even accused me of desiring a barmaid who served us in a pub, because she had the same hair style & color as my previous partner).

Her behavior with other men could sometimes leave me speechless, yet any complaint was met with "don't judge me by your standards".

Add to that, discovering gradually that she's cheated on every partner she's ever had. I still have no evidence she cheated on me. But she cheated on all before me, my replacement when we split last year, and cheated again on him when she recycled him after our final break up, with the white knight she's with now. That would make me the only one she's never cheated on! I'm down & struggling, but not delusional, I'd bet my ass 'she's cheated on everyone' includes me.

So yeah, "I get along better with men than women" will have me running for the hills in the future.

[letmeout]

I learned that when a BPD starts accusing you of cheating, they are projecting, and it means they are cheating.

[Turkish]

Mine is waifishly very pretty. Reserved, but when she turns it on... . she was devastated when an old bf dumped her out of the blue. A guy literally on the street told her she was pretty as she was walking by. She said "whatever." He said, "no, really!" They were in a few month r/s right away. It filled her need for validation that someone would want her. He ultimately moved in with her fir 2weeks, stole her car, she booted him out and got a RO on him. After that, he ended up in jail for something unrelated. Major red flag! But no, rather than realizing she had major SE issues, and made horrible choices, I attributed it to a one off. So stupid... .

[Moonie75]

I learned that when a BPD starts accusing you of cheating, they are projecting, and it means they are cheating.

I think this is one of those 50/50 deals. Half the time they accuse it's because they've cheated in the past & assume everyone does. It stops them feeling bad about it if everyone does it!

They fear/predict/expect you will too!

Or it might be that they are communicating with someone you don't even know about, not cheating yet, but someone's being lined up. I think they often accuse when not being truthful, but not quite in the realm of cheating.

If they are cheating, then YES, the accusations with come thick & fact to sooth themselves about what they're up to.

But you may still hear accusations when they're not cheating, just frightened you will or are.

So generally my view is when you're accused, it's not set in stone that they're cheating

[Moonie75]

Mine is waifishly very pretty. Reserved, but when she turns it on... . she was devastated when an old bf dumped her out of the blue.

I've seen you mention this a few times, about this one guy devastating her when he dumped her.

I guess if she's pwBPD she's had a number of relationships, so why does this one guy stand out so much for her?

Did he walk while she still idealized him so she never got the devalue? I guess that would leave him on the pedestal forever in her mind. Or was because he ended it not her?

It interests me that pwBPD often have a 'one that got away'. With my ex it's a guy she dated during her early twenties.

[Turkish]

I learned that when a BPD starts accusing you of cheating, they are projecting, and it means they are cheating.

I think this is one of those 50/50 deals. Half the time they accuse it's because they've cheated in the past & assume everyone does. It stops them feeling bad about it if everyone does it!

They fear/predict/expect you will too!

Or it might be that they are communicating with someone you don't even know about, not cheating yet, but someone's being lined up. I think they often accuse when not being truthful, but not quite in the realm of cheating.

If they are cheating, then YES, the accusations with come thick & fact to sooth themselves about what they're up to.

But you may still hear accusations when they're not cheating, just frightened you will or are.

So generally my view is when you're accused, it's not set in stone that they're cheating

Mine was saying something weird about a year ago... . that she wouldn't mind if I had an affair if she never found out about it. In retrospect, that was her feeling, not mine. After I found out about hers in August, she said she was going to tell me after she was gone (one, why?, and two, it wasn't really hidden). So freaking disordered... .

[Moonie75]

My ex said weird stuff about "What she never knew couldn't hurt her. But if she found out she'd kill me".

She needn't have worried too much. She was killing me anyway!

[Take2]

So generally my view is when you're accused, it's not set in stone that they're cheating

I tend to agree here for the most part. I think when the accusations began my ex wasn't cheating... .  but I do second guess that quite often... . As pointless as it is... .

I will say that I used to have an outgoing personality and was very confident.  After being berated and verbally abused for a period of time I totally shut down.   I wasn't throwing myself at anyone.  I even flat out refused to answer emails from a male VP at my company who was very obviously trying to be friendly.   I was waaaaaay to scared of what my ex might think.

I would walk the other way if I saw that guy coming my way.

Just one minor example of a man where I in no way invited any attention yet I still get accused of throwing myself at him...

Yes to get another man's number would be totally wrong.  I wasn't doing that either.

Yet I think for 3 of the 4 years I've known my ex he's been on dating websites...

And I'm the one who needs validation ?  

Whatever. ... .   All I need is to have my head examined for allowing myself to stay in the bizarre addiction for so long.  I'm so much stronger than that... .

[MrFox]

Heh. I remember reading your intro and its not the same person. I will confess openly that I did go back and check the stories of two people here. Paranoia? Perhaps... . its eerie, but sadly validating for us nons.

Ha!  I was kidding you It is validating in a sad way.  Knowing that it's their patterns more than it is you that causes this behavior.

MrFox,

I too heard the "I get on with men better than women" guff. Not being a jealous type I didn't flinch at this. I slowly got accused more & more of cheating, or wanting to cheat, often in the most innocent situations. (Even accused me of desiring a barmaid who served us in a pub, because she had the same hair style & color as my previous partner).

Her behavior with other men could sometimes leave me speechless, yet any complaint was met with "don't judge me by your standards".

Add to that, discovering gradually that she's cheated on every partner she's ever had. I still have no evidence she cheated on me. But she cheated on all before me, my replacement when we split last year, and cheated again on him when she recycled him after our final break up, with the white knight she's with now. That would make me the only one she's never cheated on! I'm down & struggling, but not delusional, I'd bet my ass 'she's cheated on everyone' includes me.

So yeah, "I get along better with men than women" will have me running for the hills in the future.

I wasn't jealous either.  Despite my obvious co-dependency issues, I have never been the jealous type.  She has been friends with my replacement, who she married in December, for a few years.  I wasn't jealous of him because I have always known I was stronger and better (that sounds kind of crappy to say but if you knew about him, you would understand) than him.  She constantly used him and devalued him, both to me and to him.  Maybe that's why she finally went after him after I refused to play her games or allow her to manipulate me.  He was a much easier target.

I think one of the reasons my ex got along better with men then women was because it seems like most women can see through her crap pretty quickly.  Her waif act (sex appeal, helpless wounded dove) doesn't work on them. 

[Turkish]

Heh. I remember reading your intro and its not the same person. I will confess openly that I did go back and check the stories of two people here. Paranoia? Perhaps... . its eerie, but sadly validating for us nons.

Ha!  I was kidding you It is validating in a sad way.  Knowing that it's their patterns more than it is you that causes this behavior.

MrFox,

I too heard the "I get on with men better than women" guff. Not being a jealous type I didn't flinch at this. I slowly got accused more & more of cheating, or wanting to cheat, often in the most innocent situations. (Even accused me of desiring a barmaid who served us in a pub, because she had the same hair style & color as my previous partner).

Her behavior with other men could sometimes leave me speechless, yet any complaint was met with "don't judge me by your standards".

Add to that, discovering gradually that she's cheated on every partner she's ever had. I still have no evidence she cheated on me. But she cheated on all before me, my replacement when we split last year, and cheated again on him when she recycled him after our final break up, with the white knight she's with now. That would make me the only one she's never cheated on! I'm down & struggling, but not delusional, I'd bet my ass 'she's cheated on everyone' includes me.

So yeah, "I get along better with men than women" will have me running for the hills in the future.

I wasn't jealous either.  Despite my obvious co-dependency issues, I have never been the jealous type.  She has been friends with my replacement, who she married in December, for a few years.  I wasn't jealous of him because I have always known I was stronger and better (that sounds kind of crappy to say but if you knew about him, you would understand) than him.  She constantly used him and devalued him, both to me and to him.  Maybe that's why she finally went after him after I refused to play her games or allow her to manipulate me.  He was a much easier target.

I think one of the reasons my ex got along better with men then women was because it seems like most women can see through her crap pretty quickly.  Her waif act (sex appeal, helpless wounded dove) doesn't work on them. 

Yes. My friend's wife said she isn't going to keep her mouth shut next time. She never liked my Ex from the moment they me. I consider her my canary in the coal mine now. A good judge of character.

[Moonie75]

Heh. I remember reading your intro and its not the same person. I will confess openly that I did go back and check the stories of two people here. Paranoia? Perhaps... . its eerie, but sadly validating for us nons.

Ha!  I was kidding you It is validating in a sad way.  Knowing that it's their patterns more than it is you that causes this behavior.

MrFox,

I too heard the "I get on with men better than women" guff. Not being a jealous type I didn't flinch at this. I slowly got accused more & more of cheating, or wanting to cheat, often in the most innocent situations. (Even accused me of desiring a barmaid who served us in a pub, because she had the same hair style & color as my previous partner).

Her behavior with other men could sometimes leave me speechless, yet any complaint was met with "don't judge me by your standards".

Add to that, discovering gradually that she's cheated on every partner she's ever had. I still have no evidence she cheated on me. But she cheated on all before me, my replacement when we split last year, and cheated again on him when she recycled him after our final break up, with the white knight she's with now. That would make me the only one she's never cheated on! I'm down & struggling, but not delusional, I'd bet my ass 'she's cheated on everyone' includes me.

So yeah, "I get along better with men than women" will have me running for the hills in the future.

I wasn't jealous either.  Despite my obvious co-dependency issues, I have never been the jealous type.  She has been friends with my replacement, who she married in December, for a few years.  I wasn't jealous of him because I have always known I was stronger and better (that sounds kind of crappy to say but if you knew about him, you would understand) than him.  She constantly used him and devalued him, both to me and to him.  Maybe that's why she finally went after him after I refused to play her games or allow her to manipulate me.  He was a much easier target.

I think one of the reasons my ex got along better with men then women was because it seems like most women can see through her crap pretty quickly.  Her waif act (sex appeal, helpless wounded dove) doesn't work on them. 

Yes. My friend's wife said she isn't going to keep her mouth shut next time. She never liked my Ex from the moment they me. I consider her my canary in the coal mine now. A good judge of character.

Hey Turkish mate. You've just stated your canary's a good judge of character because she never liked you from the moment she met you!   Ya gave me a giggle there mate. 

[MrFox]

Yes. My friend's wife said she isn't going to keep her mouth shut next time. She never liked my Ex from the moment they me. I consider her my canary in the coal mine now. A good judge of character.

None of my female friends liked my ex, nor did any of my male friends who are in healthy relationships.  Some of them even said so.  I ignored them.  I ignored a lot of things.  I learned not ignore good friends and intuition.

[Moonie75]

My Sis summed my ex up in one sentence after she first met her. ( for less then ten minutes)

"Moonie, what you've managed to get yourself there, is a child with two children & only you could manage that!"

Well, I'm glad to report she was wrong!

It's not only me!  

[Turkish]

Yes. My friend's wife said she isn't going to keep her mouth shut next time. She never liked my Ex from the moment they me. I consider her my canary in the coal mine now. A good judge of character.

None of my female friends liked my ex, nor did any of my male friends who are in healthy relationships.  Some of them even said so.  I ignored them.  I ignored a lot of things.  I learned not ignore good friends and intuition.

She said in the beginning that the friends of the love of her life didn't like her. Red flag! To her credit, two of my male friends always liked her. My buddy was a former Rescuer, that may have had something to do with it, though he's recovered in a 10 year marriage with a woman who never liked my Ex... .

[MrFox]

My Sis summed my ex up in one sentence after she first met her. ( for less then ten minutes)

"Moonie, what you've managed to get yourself there, is a child with two children & only you could manage that!"

Well, I'm glad to report she was wrong!

It's not only me!  

Nope, we are/were that boat with you.  That crappy, leaking, sinking boat... .

She said in the beginning that the friends of the love of her life didn't like her. Red flag! To her credit, two of my male friends always liked her. My buddy was a former Rescuer, that may have had something to do with it, though he's recovered in a 10 year marriage with a woman who never liked my Ex... .

Couple of my male friends liked my ex.  Funny thing is, I never like any of their girlfriends.  Guess it's easier to see the s**t when you aren't wallowing in it.

[Moonie75]

MrFox, you hit the nail on the head there.

The less attached you are, the clearer your vision is!

I caught myself a full on loon pot whack job, and thought I'd caught the 2nd coming!

I've very quickly spotted red flags in women my friends have met. And though those women have played out to be bad choices for my friends, Though they weren't a half as bad as the nut whacker I was loving the whole time!

'I can see for miles and miles' when I haven't got me rose tinted gigs on!

[MrFox]

MrFox, you hit the nail on the head there.

The less attached you are, the clearer your vision is!

I caught myself a full on loon pot whack job, and thought I'd caught the 2nd coming!

I've very quickly spotted red flags in women my friends have met. And though those women have played out to be bad choices for my friends, Though they weren't a half as bad as the nut whacker I was loving the whole time!

'I can see for miles and miles' when I haven't got me rose tinted gigs on!

Wanna know something funny, and by funny I mean so sad that I have to laugh about it now?  I knew my ex for two years before we got together.  During that time she pursued me, I kept her at arm's distance.  Why?  Because I knew she was messed up in the head, not to the degree I realize she is now, but I knew something wasn't right.  When my life kind of went to hell for a few months, she popped up and suddenly she was the 2nd Coming.  By the time my life got better, I was too deep in to see the s**t for what it was.