Need Some Encouragement - Does It Ever End?

[NewWays]

I continue to see behaviors that are being shown or exhibited by my wife during our divorce that were present during our marriage but I was not seeing them clearly.

Splitting - Now that we have been in the divorce process she further continues to label me the blackest of black unless she wants something done and unless I respond as directed I am not worthy of being on this earth.  "If you are going to be near a Home Depot, please pick up some light bulbs", "On your way home I need you to pick up cat food"  Dialogue (in person or via phone) does not happen and is via text message.  Last another text that mandated... ."Pick up the folloiwng items, cotton balls, paper towels, etc. and did not text any answer back.  I was at an off-site meeting for work that was not near any retail stores, but had based upon previous text communications that she could run her own errands.  As I walked past her going down the hall to the Den now converted to my sleeping quarters, she commented, "I see you continue to be the ass jerk that you are and did not pick up the items I listed in my text.  What is wrong with you?"

Entitlement - Our house is underwater and my wife at this point has decided she wants to keep the house... .and is looking at refinancing.  She has indicated I should pay the current shortfall that is projected to be between the loan amount she will secure for the re-finance mortgage (which is about $15,000) below what when added to her loan amount, will pay off our current joint mortgage.  She makes double my salary and when I told her I had no interest in the house and that she had to make the decision if she wanted the house and if refinancing was in her best interste without my participation she told me, "You really, as we go thourgh this divorce, she me more each and every day that you are more of an ass that I ever could have imagined and this is more proof!

My attorney filed some papers that relate to updated information required by the court... .Her attorney was required to respond and prepare a document for the court as well.  Obvious legal charges that are part of the process with attroneys when they create legal document that require responding to the court.  She broke the trend of texting only to me and called me, screaming and ranting that in the future, before I discuss with my attorney any items that may require her attorney to charge her attorney costs that I need to get her approval first? What?

Does it ever end?  Please give me some tid bits of encouragement that after the divorce this all will end.  Thank God we never had children.

NewWays

Wishing all of you peace as you move down your path as your relationship ends.

[Forestaken]

I'm going through the same process and sounds like we are at similiar points of the process.

Is she in the house?

Will it ever end? I  dunno. I am lucky that I have a NC order. She is out of the house and we are not underwater but little equity.

In Hawaii (I live in NE), the cost of living is high + the wages are low, but the quality of life is the best of all 50 states.  The cost of living is called "Paradise Tax". Can you get a No Contact Order?

[ForeverDad]

Does it end?  For those who don't have children together, yes.  It may take longer than you think, longer than even the lawyers think, but it does end eventually.  When it is limited to financial issues, in the end it's all about the financials, the debts and the assets.  The ex will try to Blame and Blame-Shift, make you feel guilty or manipulate you to assume more financial obligations than are reasonable but time will make those issues resolve themselves.  Giving in on some issues might make it send sooner but you have to be careful that any seeming deals don't prolong the agony with even more demands.

For most of us with children, no.  However, for those with children, all is not lost... .If you have your boundaries in place and court orders that detail appropriate boundaries and set limits, if you understand that you may have to go back to court to periodically address new problems or more entitled re-interpretations of the order, then yes it is more or less manageable and at the least more predictable then before, dare I say, better than before.

[livednlearned]

I have a child with my ex, and even though it's 3 years since date of separation, and divorce is final, we're still in court. That's the crappy part.

The great part is that you can grow a lot. Just like you can see things now that were hard to see during the marriage, you'll start to see even more stuff. Not just about her, but in you too. Once she starts disappearing into the background (woohoo!) you'll stop focusing so much on her, and start seeing more of yourself. Keep growing, learning about yourself. You'll get stronger. Your backbone grows back, or if you never had one, a new one grows. One day, that bounce in your step will come back. You'll find yourself whistling  .

For me, during the marriage, I absorbed all the abuse, thought it was hitting the right target. Then, toward the end, when it started to get downright crazypants, I could see how much of the abuse was about him. Then for about a year after moving out, I just reacted to him, almost numb, noticing the absurdity but not really ready to take care of myself yet. Then about two years in, I realized days went by without even thinking about him. I'd get a nasty email from him and it wouldn't even trigger me or bother me. He just became about as irritating as a leaky toilet. Unfortunately, because we have a child, the legal bills nearly buried me, and that pisses me off. But I'd be just as pissed off if I was fighting an insurance company. It doesn't feel personal any more.

It really does get better. It gets great, even. I appreciate my life so much more now, knowing how bad it was.

[sad but wiser]

Does it ever end?  Good question.  The answer is yes.  The courts really don't like to be tied up with divorce proceedings and judges lose their patience after awhile.  The process is long... .justice ought to be portrayed as a blind turtle, not a blind woman.   

[MiddleEastMike]

Yep, it does.

Like you, me and my wife did not have children (thank God!) but also I had the advantage that we had no joint property. Also she was not a US citizen and could not obtain a US visa so when I left we were on different continents! Like your wife, mine also had a huge sense of entitlement. For example, before I left, I wanted to sell my car in Dubai (UAE) and of course my wife demanded that I give it to her (":)id you ever think that maybe I wanted your car? This is so typical of you to only think about yourself!" - never mind the fact that she already had an almost brand-new Toyota Yaris I had bought for her the year before. I also had an end-of-contract gratuity from my job in the UAE of almost US$40,000 so of course she wanted me to deposit it to her bank account "for safe keeping, so you won't waste it." This is the same woman who gave away US$13,000 to a Ponzi scheme scammer. This US$13,000 was money I had unwisely given to her for spending money. Well, that money went down the drain.

After my wife was sent the court summons, she refused to come to court or hire a lawyer to defend her, so it was pretty easy for me to get the divorce. Since I sent her a copy of the divorce decree three months ago, I haven't heard anything at all from her. What a relief! My personal hell is over! Now I can focus on putting my life back together.

I understand exactly where you are right now. It will get better! Really!

[NewWays]

Forstaken... .

Hawaii... .what a beautiful place.  Do you ever get "used" to it and feel it is just a regular place to live versus paradise?  Is the NC order working?

ForeverDad... .

I always appreciate your insight and wisdom. Yes... .I think you are right... .it may take longer than I think or the lawyers think... .but the financial issues drive the progress that you are 200% correct about.

You are so right... .and the divorce is not even final yet... .but she continues to blame, blame-shift and shame me since it was all my fault that the relationship was in the state it was in and it was my fault that she had to divorce me.

She tried... .to your point... .to manipulate me to assume more (... .not more... .but all of the refinance of the house that she really would have to come to the re-finance table with... .and would have to pay cash for) yet she has a annual salary that is almost double mine.

I do not want to just give in... .that I can not do and just throw in the towel... .yet will be careful as you point out to make sure to not extend or prolong the agony allowing her to spew more demands.

I wanted children so bad... .but when I read the stories here as to how the all of the nons tell about how the BPD spouse really does not care if the children are damaged... .makes me sick to my stomach.  I do not think I could have the tenacity, self control and patience to do all the things I have read you have done, very well I might say.  I think the good lord knew that we had children and what the end result would be he pulled a detour on that idea early on in our marriage. But one thing I have to ask for all the parents... .do the kids finally know... .when they see all what we know as BPD behaviors that we learn about, study about and understand but those actions or behaviors still hurt.  Do the children one day say... ."You know mom or dad really has problem... .I hate it when she goes crazy and yells at me for no reason... ."  Do they finally see all of this on their own and see just how anamolous the behaviors that are being exhibited really are.  Again as a parent that has gone through such a divorce... .my hat is off to you!  I try to take... .one day at a time.

LivednLearned... .

I owe you the same... ."You are the greatest getting through this with a child.  My hat goes off to you!"  Much like you I was the laid back... .the chiller... .as you put it the asorber!... .because with all the chaos and problems you begin to think that some of this is in fact really your fault... .then as we all do... .you hit the wall of reality and say... .wait a minute... .What the heck... .I am not really 110% idiot and ass and am not the cause of all this... .stop the pressess!  I remember when I had gone to my first session with my therapist this... .after my wife refused to consider what was put on the table by our marriage counselor of at least of two years of comprehensive counseling.  We all have that moment that we can remember where we say... .What the heck... .my therapist said... ."NewWays you have no partnership in this marriage... .you have no power at all."  I'm taking it all one day at a time not sure I am whistling just yet!

Sad But Wiser... .

i'm glad you speak that it does end... .that is my christmas present wish for this year!

Middle East Mike... . Thanks for your input... .you have walked a mile I can tell in my shoes!

Thanks to all of you for your valuable perspective and wisdom and encouragement!

NewWays

[ForeverDad]

Do the children one day say... ."You know mom or dad really has problem... .I hate it when she goes crazy and yells at me for no reason... ."  Do they finally see all of this on their own and see just how anomalous the behaviors that are being exhibited really are?

Many do.  Most probably become survivors, affected to a greater or lesser extent for the rest of their lives.  Some though continue the pattern into the next generation.  This is what I wrote in my first year here to someone who may have had BPD, suffering, confused and hopefully a person who did find help and get better.

This is a example that has been repeated millions of times in millions of families.  While the specifics may not apply directly in your case, the general pattern possibly does:

Little son/daughter sees parents screaming and fighting all the time, maybe both aggressive against each other, or maybe just one fighting and the other one taking it passively.  Maybe it's directed at the kids too.  The poor little innocent kids either see abuse or are abused and they tell themselves, 'When I grow up I'll never do that to my spouse or to my kids or let my kids see/hear that.'

Well, guess what, the child grows up and instead may choose to do just what the parents did.  Why?  That's the example the person grew up with.  That's how an abused person can become an abuser years later without even realizing it.  From abused to abuser.

I've talked with some parents who had bad tempers and they admitted their own parents were that way too.  Yet it was so hard, so very hard for them to realize the connection and to fight the urge to vent without self-control.

Many (but of course not all) adult problems seem to have roots in childhood.  No wonder, our basic personality is being formed in those early years.  I don't say this to add or remove blame to anyone, but just knowing that sometimes events in childhood have serious repercussions years later may help you to not feel so bad about yourself.  You are worth the effort to get better!

Probably your question wants about exactly that but I wanted to give you an insight into the complexities and one aspect is what is done to/for us and another aspect is what she ourselves choose to do with our lives.

As for your question, my son did that - say she was crazy - here and there over the years, I guess starting about age 9.  But since he lives half his life with his mother he also has affection for both parents.  I try to validate his observations without blaming or manipulation.  I got away from close proximity to my ex, my child can't so I need him to be capable to observe objectively and form his own fact-based conclusions.  As Richard Warshak wrote in Divorce Poison,  the quiet seemingly noble path is not the silent path, we have to fight fire with tons of water to quench the distortions and blaming done by the other parent.  It's slow going, but generally the kids do benefit when the reasonably normal parents are a steady and loving part of their lives.

[livednlearned]

It's slow going, but generally the kids do benefit when the reasonably normal parents are a steady and loving part of their lives.

I think it's possible that the healthy behavior of the stable parent can actually neutralize the toxic behavior of the BPD parent. But it's hard work. It's a different kind of parenting, and to do it, you have to sacrifice your own coping and defense mechanisms. And that is incredibly painful and uncomfortable. If the parent isn't healthy, (and by healthy, I mean more than just stable), then the kids are going to have a harder time.

[NewWays]

All... .

Thanks for the comments, reflection and your wisdom.

I wanted to get on and post to all of you before the thanksgiving holiday but ended up not getting the time off / vacation dates I had requested at work.

So still hoping all of you had a nice thanksgiving and wishing you and those special to you the best this holiday season.

NewWays

[sad but wiser]

Hi!  My children know my stb ex has a problem, a serious one.  They bore the brunt of his manipulations much more than I was aware.  He did a lot of divide and conquer and "whispered things to them that only a child could understand... . " (Poltergeist) It is all coming out now that they have lived away from him for over a year.  I am ashamed and appalled!  Part of the reason I kept the marriage together was because I felt obligated to keep their family together.  (other reasons had to do with religious beliefs and a sense of "I do" means "I do."  In any case, I am hoping they continue to gain perspective and I have hope that your children also can turn this into a chance to gain understanding and insight into dysfunction and disorders.  Maybe they can be forewarned and avoid a similar circumstance. 

  This will end.  A light will come at the end of your tunnel and life will be very very different.  It just takes time. 

[maxen]

Hi new ways. I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. I have no advice to add. What I do have to add is my complete, total and utter sympathy on the matter of entitlement. I've warned my L about my stbxw's BPD and projection and entitlement in particular. (She was a psych major and was receptive, which was encouraging.) Yes, it's infuriating on many levels. The best of luck to you.

[NewWays]

All... .

Light at the end of the tunnel... . my thoughts are hoping that happens in the near future.

I have said this before, but I will say it again.

I really had major hope of children and a family.  I am at times embarressed to say that I now feel blessed that we never had a family.  That is a painful thing to say but I really feel that way.

I read the painful recaps that many of you post about the pain and hurt STBX BPD spouses inflict, much of it knowlngly and deliberate on the children... . and I would never have the strength that all of you do to keep going down your paths.  You all are a step above the rest and I admire what you all do to keep your children from as much of the BPD "radiation" as possible.

I as always, I tip my hat to ALL OF YOU!  You are the Best of the Best!

NewWays

[sanemom]

NewWays,

Be glad you didn't have children.  I guess you just need to buckle up and expect it to take way longer than it should.  My husband's BPDex divorced her third husband after only being married 2.5 months, and the divorce process took well over a year because she just kept fighting just to fight... . she felt she deserved half the house that HE bought with his veteran's benefits.  She told the kids that the longer she stayed married to him and the more stuff he bought, the more stuff she would get.  Great... .

Foreverdad,

I hope it ends when the kids age out of the visitation schedule!  LOL!  I am sure she will try to still insert herself, but once they are too old, we will have no reason to dialogue with her, right?  Right?   

[Nope]

  I am sure she will try to still insert herself, but once they are too old, we will have no reason to dialogue with her, right?  Right?   

It's a lovely thought. I just wish it were really true. I suspect there will be quite a bit less trouble but adult children still graduate college and still get married. Two situations where you will likely have to once again be in the same room and the BPD person is likely to be at their worst. Then any Christmas, Thanksgiving or whatever where the adult child is forced to choose which parent to see is likely going to be ugly simply for the guilt a BPD parent can inflict. So even without direct contact the other person can still effect your life.

Most sarcastically amusing part in my case is that the chance of my DSD's BPD mom putting down one penny for her wedding is 0%. Her father and I will obviously contribute as much as we can when the time comes. The chance that DSD won't want her mom there as she is the guilted all-good child is probably 20%. So in all likelyhood after everything the BPD mom has put us through in court costs and everything else we are still going to be paying for a very nice meal for her and whatever winner she brings with her.   

[sanemom]

  I am sure she will try to still insert herself, but once they are too old, we will have no reason to dialogue with her, right?  Right?   

Most sarcastically amusing part in my case is that the chance of my DSD's BPD mom putting down one penny for her wedding is 0%. Her father and I will obviously contribute as much as we can when the time comes. The chance that DSD won't want her mom there as she is the guilted all-good child is probably 20%. So in all likelyhood after everything the BPD mom has put us through in court costs and everything else we are still going to be paying for a very nice meal for her and whatever winner she brings with her.   

It will be very hard later not to say anything if/when any of the skids are jealous about our DD in the future because she will get to do things they weren't able to do... . largely because of their BPD mom either not paying child support OR due to the outlandish court bill we have prohibiting us from taking trips, etc.  Maybe we can just give them a look and they will know... .