Still Detaching, But Her Normality is Hard To Process

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

8 weeks out now. We share the kids joint custody. I filed my claim with the court. If nothing is amiss, then we will present it to her and hopefully move on with our lives with all of us protected, and I not out that much $$ in legal fees. 

So I'm playing the hurt Ex for now, pretty much swallowing everything, including telling her I think it was an unwise decision to introduce the kids to the person partially responsible for their mother's abandonment and neglect of them. She's trying to be a good mom now (except for that lapse in judgement), but it's easier if you only have to do it half time.

Kids are doing well. Attached to us both. DD on the cusp of 2. I still hope that she isn't foolish enough to invite the home wrecker to DD2's birthday party... . no one in her family is happy with this either. Perhaps she's only tried to integrate him into the kids' lives. Other than the fanticization of being with him "forever" I don't think she is logistically thinking long term. How to move him in with her to government housing and getting away with it. He's still in college. Minimal income. A child, basically, far less mature than I was, or her for that matter, at the same age. I think she is just living in the moment for now. I told her once back in November, "how do you think this will play out? And will our kids be in the middle of it?" I got a blank stare in response.

Other than that, we were both at the dentist today. I appreciate she comes to help out. One of the staff, a mother, was talking to her about motherhood and kids and talked about private schooling since we live in a bad area. uBPDx had mentioned private school before. I saw her start to respond and then she kind of looked back at me and silenced herself. She knows that we are financially tied down now due to what she chose to do. No private school. The kids are already wicked smart anyway. We'll supplement them at home.

It's interesting, but she's let her hair start to grow long again. It was quite long when she met me, and she always kept it shorter. Now that she's with a younger guy again, she's changing her outward appearance. I never commented on it and was pleased with whatever she chose. It goes with what I read in one of her journals: that she changes her hair due to not being able to change her inside. Constant selfies on FB for approval... .

She seems to normal to me, and it's unsettling. I am no longer her trigger, the relationship she "wasn't ready for." (a mature one). Perhaps this is the best it will get and we really were very mismatched as our/my T said. She tried to be more like me than I like her (I never bought into the love bombing teenage stuff, though I did bask in the adoration... . just not the trappings of it). I think, "why did I throw this away?" Then I remember all that she did. Queen, Waif, Hermit, Witch (with a "B" as she called herself). What she did this past year neglecting the kids and our household. The odd things that she said and wrote. Questioning what reality was in her two months of dissociation or dysphoria, where I was as gentle and hands off as I could for the most part be considering what she did and continued to do. And then, the things I found on my computer where she had been communicating with her old bf (the first "The One" around the time she met me. Really odd and juvenile musings on love and marriage, arguing with him about him calling her a "drama queen."

She's sweet now, a little more mature than when I met her. A little bit. But that was what I got at first, too. It's what the replacement is getting, though he's more her emotional level: a love addict. I'm free, and now I need to free myself, but it's still hard. I'm getting there though... . thanks for listening.

[Turkish]

8 weeks out now. We share the kids joint custody. I filed my claim with the court. If nothing is amiss, then we will present it to her and hopefully move on with our lives with all of us protected, and I not out that much $$ in legal fees. 

So I'm playing the hurt Ex for now, pretty much swallowing everything, including telling her I think it was an unwise decision to introduce the kids to the person partially responsible for their mother's abandonment and neglect of them. She's trying to be a good mom now (except for that lapse in judgement), but it's easier if you only have to do it half time.

Kids are doing well. Attached to us both. DD on the cusp of 2. I still hope that she isn't foolish enough to invite the home wrecker to DD2's birthday party... . no one in her family is happy with this either. Perhaps she's only tried to integrate him into the kids' lives. Other than the fanticization of being with him "forever" I don't think she is logistically thinking long term. How to move him in with her to government housing and getting away with it. He's still in college. Minimal income. A child, basically, far less mature than I was, or her for that matter, at the same age. I think she is just living in the moment for now. I told her once back in November, "how do you think this will play out? And will our kids be in the middle of it?" I got a blank stare in response.

Other than that, we were both at the dentist today. I appreciate she comes to help out. One of the staff, a mother, was talking to her about motherhood and kids and talked about private schooling since we live in a bad area. uBPDx had mentioned private school before. I saw her start to respond and then she kind of looked back at me and silenced herself. She knows that we are financially tied down now due to what she chose to do. No private school. The kids are already wicked smart anyway. We'll supplement them at home.

It's interesting, but she's let her hair start to grow long again. It was quite long when she met me, and she always kept it shorter. Now that she's with a younger guy again, she's changing her outward appearance. I never commented on it and was pleased with whatever she chose. It goes with what I read in one of her journals: that she changes her hair due to not being able to change her inside. Constant selfies on FB for approval... .

She seems to normal to me, and it's unsettling. I am no longer her trigger, the relationship she "wasn't ready for." (a mature one). Perhaps this is the best it will get and we really were very mismatched as our/my T said. She tried to be more like me than I like her (I never bought into the love bombing teenage stuff, though I did bask in the adoration... . just not the trappings of it). I think, "why did I throw this away?" Then I remember all that she did. Queen, Waif, Hermit, Witch (with a "B" as she called herself). What she did this past year neglecting the kids and our household. The odd things that she said and wrote. Questioning what reality was in her two months of dissociation or dysphoria, where I was as gentle and hands off as I could for the most part be considering what she did and continued to do. And then, the things I found on my computer where she had been communicating with her old bf (the first "The One" around the time she met me. Really odd and juvenile musings on love and marriage, arguing with him about him calling her a "drama queen."

She's sweet now, a little more mature than when I met her. A little bit. But that was what I got at first, too. It's what the replacement is getting, though he's more her emotional level: a love addict. I'm free, and now I need to free myself, but it's still hard. I'm getting there though... . thanks for listening.

[Mutt]

I'm not an expert Turk, but I saw the same thing in my ex right after she had left. I'm guessing that maybe they return to their emotional baseline and what I was seeing in the end is decompensation?

What I mean is, around the end of my r/s, my ex looked disheveled. She was a SAHM. I would return home from work, she had not showered, still in pyjamas, unkempt hair etc... . I distanced myself because I had a hard time talking to her. She would get accusatory, backlash, really unfriendly and silent treatments. We still had our fights, but I chose to internalize and focus my energy on the kids, tried to run the show as normal for them as I could. I was in denial with what was going on around me.

She would get dressed up for dates and run out with paramour, after supper with the kids. I would give them baths, tuck them in etc... .

When she moved out, was in a committed relationship with the new guy, it was like seeing the same woman that I first saw when I dated her. She started growing her hair out, wearing new clothes, looked clean, fresh and she looked happy.

It was like she changed overnight, and I felt stung by it.

[coolioqq]

I would remain highly skeptical of the "back to normality" conclusion here. What is normality or a baseline for a BPD person anyway? Is there such a thing? I know that with my dBPDexgf, the baseline depended on the moment rather than the day, and it was always slightly different.

Turkish, you said that she tried to be more like you. I may be wrong, but for someone to try to be more like someone else, they must have something to start with. What did your ex start with? However much wiser and knowledgeable about BPD I got, I can't answer that questions in the case of my ex. She admitted that she had basically no personality. Now, she was diagnosed, so maybe that's the difference - she knew that she lacked personality. So, in her case, "back to normality" would literally have no meaning and would always be different... .

Do you frankly think that the new guy will last? I just know that my ex will never make any relationship work. She does not want to change, to own her failings and brokenness, and fix herself. If that's not in place, then I am not sure how they can make anything last. I surely hope that it does work out for your ex because (a) that will let you detach and (b) you don't want more complications for your kids. But, only time will tell... .

[Turkish]

Mutt, this it exactly, down to me taking care of the kids and the house more fir her dissociative phase Sept into early Dec. Calling the guy from our home was the worst, with her still lying like her "mistake" was in the past. The house is old, and small. I had to cover my head with the pillow some nights to keep from screaming.

She texted me to night well after 8. She knows I have the kids in bed by 830 at the latest. Her usual MO is just to call. So she thought there was a chance they might be asleep and texted. DS4 may have been a little awake, his sister had been out hard for hours. I replied, "of course they are asleep, uBPDx." I then told her DD1 would certainly need a bath when she gets them tomorrow. She replied "ok, sorry to bother you. I talked to them earlier anyway" (we all went to the dentist today, and she dropped them off at her moms). Still WoE around me now? Its odd. I texted back that although the object constancy issues bothered me (she calling during the day to see if they are ok, sometimes crying on the phone), I'm not a monster, and that I will always call her back at night or update her as I was doing now. I left out saying that she is the one who violated this first two weeks ago, where I was sure she and the kids were hanging out with the Home Wrecker. As I was writing this, our son came out and asked to sleep in my bed. I'm not going to call her back... . petty? Perhaps, but she gets them for two days tomorrow. If he asked, I would...

As for what you said at the end, yes, she seems prettier now. No doubt trying desperately to give it her all in the new r/s. Too bad she wasn't willing to do that for the father of her children I certainly was, but found my way here too late... . as if that would make a difference with cheaters.

I would remain highly skeptical of the "back to normality" conclusion here. What is normality or a baseline for a BPD person anyway? Is there such a thing? I know that with my dBPDexgf, the baseline depended on the moment rather than the day, and it was always slightly different.

Turkish, you said that she tried to be more like you. I may be wrong, but for someone to try to be more like someone else, they must have something to start with. What did your ex start with? However much wiser and knowledgeable about BPD I got, I can't answer that questions in the case of my ex. She admitted that she had basically no personality. Now, she was diagnosed, so maybe that's the difference - she knew that she lacked personality. So, in her case, "back to normality" would literally have no meaning and would always be different... .

Do you frankly think that the new guy will last? I just know that my ex will never make any relationship work. She does not want to change, to own her failings and brokenness, and fix herself. If that's not in place, then I am not sure how they can make anything last. I surely hope that it does work out for your ex because (a) that will let you detach and (b) you don't want more complications for your kids. But, only time will tell... .

I called mine correctly the first time I spotter her across a room:social anxiety, didn't trust people... my stupidity was trying to crack that mystery... . mine is fairly high functioning, though two friends, one male, one female, didn't like her from the start. Two of my male friends, who are kind of like me, liked her a lot. She is fairly high functioning. The "leader" of the family as opposed to her 4 brothers and 1 sister (some resentment with her two older siblings). The older bro I think may be BPD (even my Ex would comment on what looked to be his love addictions, moodiness, anger, and low self esteem, in addition to self sabotage. A really smart guy nonetheless. Lil s is has some BPD traits, but not the intrinsic meanness that mine has, nor her easily triggered temper). Mine seems ok, and can be sweet, but I know what lies beneath. She is good at hiding it. She revealed it to me early, not directed at me (until I was on the cusp of moving in). She has some stronger narc traits then yours sounds like.

As for her and the guy lasting? She's following the same pattern she did with her first serious bf (the short lived NPD before me doesn't count, she never loved that guy). It could go on for a while if they don't live together. I was her longest r/s by 3x. The kids are more of what bound us together, as well as my emotional and financial stability (the latter of which she will get advantage of for many years).  What bugs me is bringing the kids into that dysfunction. Nothing I can do about it. I gave her my warnings about red flags ,months ago. She actually considered some of them, but then dismissed them. Our son mentions his name quite a bit. I just listen... . and wait.

[Mutt]

OK, I get it now, "dissociative phase" thanks for making the connection. I couldn't make sense of the behavior at the time. She would say things like:

I need to get out and make new friends, I'm moving on

This place is a hell hole, I need to get out!

She was giving me the silent treatment, I was distant, trying not to upset her, throwing myself into the kids was what I saw, it wasn't a hell hole, but she was going out with paramour.

I'm going with out with [insert friend here] tonight.

She was lying and going out with paramour.

This was the worst part of the r/s for myself, and I didn't understand at the time what was going on, it's as if things were happening all of the time, frequent intense rages, lying, projecting, fasing out.

BPD BEHAVIORS:Dissociation and Dysphoria

Common behaviour:

- Daydreaming, fasing out = dissociation

- depersonalised sex = dissociation

- "Black and White" thinking = dissociation

- Self mutilation, cutting = dissociation

- Remembering things differently than others do, lying = dissociation

- Raging = dissociation

I'm guessing it's because I triggered her abandonment fears by wanting a divorce, and she felt a loss, guilt w/ the affair and was dissociating. I'm sorry for hijacking your thread Turkish, it's the most painful part of the r/s and I don't try to analyze this area too much. It's as if a lot of things were happening, quickly. It makes sense now, I've processed it. Thank you.

I didn't cry in bed, but I did lay awake at 2AM in our bed, wondering where why my wife is. I cried a lot after she left. Just everything hit me.

I texted back that although the object constancy issues bothered me (she calling during the day to see if they are ok, sometimes crying on the phone

I get this as well. I don't hear from her for a few days after I pick up the kids, it's the day before I drop the kids back off to her, and I get a call asking to talk to the kids. You can't wait until tomorrow and talk to them when you see them? Sometimes she will ask to talk to 2 of the kids, when there are 3 with me, and doesn't ask to talk to D8. I thought that was odd.

Our son mentions his name quite a bit.

I'm sorry Turk. This was really tough for me as well. Hearing his name, especially when it's so soon from the split. The two boys call me by his name when I pick them up, and it tapers off within 15-20 minutes. I've noticed a slight change lately, they call me by his name immediately followed by "dad" when I pick them up. I'm not sure if they are associating him as a father now.

[Turkish]

No hijack, Mutt. It sounds like our exoeriences are more similar than I thought. I was joking yesterday at her mom's house. DD1's godparents were there (uBPDx's younger brother and his LT gf), and DD4 called me mommy, he does the opposite to both of us. She laughed, I said, as long as he doesnt start calling me by her bf's name, I'm ok. She laughed and said, yeah!

I can't imagine how that must feel for you... . I'm at the point where I tell my son to be careful, but I can't alienate him against the Home Wrecker either. Its a Catch-22 at this point... .

Mine has integrated her dysphoria into the new reality. It will be bad whenever it blows up between them, based upon a previous pattern. Or it won't. They always have us as responsible daddies, no? The other guys will never have to take on the responsibility and pressure of that. In that, our BPDxes seem to get away scott free, and that hurts.

[Mutt]

I can't imagine how that must feel for you... . I'm at the point where I tell my son to be careful, but I can't alienate him against the Home Wrecker either. Its a Catch-22 at this point... .

Mine has integrated her dysphoria into the new reality. It will be bad whenever it blows up between them, based upon a previous pattern. Or it won't. They always have us as responsible daddies, no? The other guys will never have to take on the responsibility and pressure of that. In that, our BPDxes seem to get away scott free, and that hurts.

It's gotten easier, it's a reality. I don't think his name will be the last bf name, I'll be called. I say that because my youngest is two, the middle child is 6. I don't think it's going to last between either. It's a rebound. He's four years younger than me, never had kids, immature / looks like a partier. That's the impression that I get.

But I could be wrong, it's up to him, his personality, maybe he won't trigger her as much?

I don't alienate the kids from either, I made the choice early that I want to be there for them and not expose them to "divorce poison" It's not their fault. I want to leave a positive impression on them. I would hope that they can lean on me later, if and when they are ready to process this stuff. I'm trying to be diplomatic.  That's where I think that the ex isn't going to get away scott free. She's having serious problems with SD15, and I believe that it's because of Mom having unstable relationships with the boyfriends before me, witnessing rages, being split black herself, being raged on and to some degree  this recent event.

I see the effects of a BPD mom on SD, I'm trying to prevent that, by being the best dad I can be. It's all I can do Turk.

[Turkish]

I can't imagine how that must feel for you... . I'm at the point where I tell my son to be careful, but I can't alienate him against the Home Wrecker either. Its a Catch-22 at this point... .

Mine has integrated her dysphoria into the new reality. It will be bad whenever it blows up between them, based upon a previous pattern. Or it won't. They always have us as responsible daddies, no? The other guys will never have to take on the responsibility and pressure of that. In that, our BPDxes seem to get away scott free, and that hurts.

It's gotten easier, it's a reality. I don't think his name will be the last bf name, I'll be called. I say that because my youngest is two, the middle child is 6. I don't think it's going to last between either. It's a rebound. He's four years younger than me, never had kids, immature / looks like a partier. That's the impression that I get.

But I could be wrong, it's up to him, his personality, maybe he won't trigger her as much?

The last point, I think so too. It took a while after I moved in for the big triggers to start. He's 8 years younger, still an undergrad at the age I was working almost 4 years for a F500 company, buying stock, contributing to retirement (not to say i wasn't doing typical mid 20s bachelor stuff too). I watched her revert to mirror him. Now that she's "back" and they are all hanging out, I don't know. If he bought into the fantasy "we'll be together forever" and has some PD traits from what I can tell from a distance, then it might be the unnatural attachment to a family. That's what worries me. I don't think he's a total narc like her last bf, but it worries me. She never tried the fantasy stuff on me, because I think she knew I wouldn't bite, and she wanted try try fr someone more mature and stable. Now she's switched back, and our kids are right in the middle of it.

If I may ask, what do you say to the kids when they accidentally call you the bf name? I could keep my external reaction neutral, but inside, I'd be seething... .

[Mutt]

The way that I see it Turk, is that husbands will put up with a lot more than a boyfriend will. There's no ring on that finger. There were red flags early in mine, and disproportionate anger in the first few months, I don't recall what caused the trigger. If i had to guess, i invalidated her or rejected her somehow. I was a calm man in the beginning, and I'm getting back to my emotional baseline a year after the split. But I must say I'm surprised so far how long my replacement has lasted. He's put up with a high conflict divorce and multiple suicide attempts with my SD (my kids were with me). There is still her black thinking towards me, a lot of aggression, I'm not sure if she's venting her fears towards me and the new guy, if it's due to the loss of our attachment. I was really angry in the beginning of the split, I sent her some emails I'm not proud of now. But I really don't know too much. It's her business, and she's in a committed relationship, his and her journey now, not mine.

The first few times, I didn't handle it so well. I said " I'm not J", but I could of had a better tone. I didn't get angry at them, but I think I could of just grinned and held it in better. I let them call me by his name for a few times when I first get them, but I simply say "guys I'm not J, I'm dad" Usually the oldest catches it and corrects it with the younger ones. I was definitely seething inside the first few months. I was resentful towards the ex, because she should of given the kids space and introduced him 6 months minimum. At 2 months into their "official coming out r/s, ex said "me and the kids are great and in a healthy r/s w/ J.

That showed me how unaware (can't think of a better word atm) she is. You are in a honeymoon phase, and you're evaluating your r/s and the kids relationship to this man based on that? She could of tried to trigger me or get a reaction though by saying something like that. It stung, not so much because of her, but because she was denying me access, telling her friends that she had to beg to have me take the kids, but that she was putting the kids through this.

The kids are my Achilles heel and I've made it clear I will defend them, so now I try as best that I can to be neutral around ex. I've noticed if there is an activity that the kids like doing with me, she'll do it before she drops them off or I pick them up. She said the kids can go to the LEGO movie with you if you like, it's up to you. I say I'll take them, then she ends up taking them to the LEGO movie. I got triggered, and called her and was angry. I wasn't proud of myself after everything that I had learned. The ex used to this when I was with her early in our r/s. She would call her ex, and all I could hear on the phone is him being angry and yelling in the phone. I felt sympathetic to her. She was in the van with her new bf when I called. The new guy has no idea about the pretext, or what transpired between us, he's hearing an angry guy over the phone receiver. I'm Triangulation myself at this point, but there's no point in engaging anymore. I'm above it and better than this. I'm probably a text book case, of being a partner that was invalidating, engaging and triggering a BPD. I was enmeshed / co-dependant.

So things that the kids and I do or plan, I keep that myself. It's like she wants to make herself look better to the kids than I. I think it's her splitting herself white or trying to make herself look good in front of the kids, and to feel better.

[Turkish]

Thank you so much, Mutt, for sharing your experiences. I'll look at you as the older bro, even though you're two years younger than I am 

Good idea to keep plan sharing to a minimum. Trying to one-up the other parent is involving the kids in immature behavior. The last non-constructive email conversation we had was in Sept, when she said she was a woman of character and that I lacked character (reverse projection?). I was ready to blast her, but then held back, thinking nothing good could come of that conversation. And it was through company email, also. That could come back to haunt me. Verbal, text, or company emails are our contacts, as well as the occasional F2F. In the beginning of our r/s, we did get into a few nasty email exchanges (her initiating the written abuse) that I am not proud of either.

How much contact do you have with her BFs? I'm really angry that she is bringing the boy toy in the r/s with the kids, because he's a dumb kid of low character, and in my mind, a coward. I don't have a problem telling this to his face either. I'm not foolish enough to get into a physical altercation, but I'm not going to play dumb either. He's the football player and sometime bouncer anyway, so if there is any teen angst, it's going to come from him. The obvious narc tendencies cloaked in the facade of a faux religious and spiritual love addict are what concerns me, but there is nothing proactive I can do about it. The longer it gets put off I have to meet him, the better.

[Mutt]

Thank you so much, Mutt, for sharing your experiences. I'll look at you as the older bro, even though you're two years younger than I am  

You're welcome Turk, it's mutual, trust me. ;-) I have no issues with sharing my experiences. I don't want to make things look one-side, because I'm not proud of my interactions with the ex and I want to show the entire picture. I'm not going to learn anything, if I blame.

Good idea to keep plan sharing to a minimum. Trying to one-up the other parent is involving the kids in immature behavior.

I agree. I was upset about the movie (activities), I figured that this is not going to go away, I'll do what I do with the kids without letting the ex know too much. I'm still parallel parenting to a degree, but trying to co-parent as best as I can. I've become more depersonlized to the ex's behaviors, it's a disorder, she copes differently to stress, she's not crazy. It is what it is. I'm in a different place than last year, I worked through my anger. It's identifying the control over my actions. It's my choice to engage, or not to engage. Detaching, really leads to freedom. :-)

How much contact do you have with her BFs? I'm really angry that she is bringing the boy toy in the r/s with the kids, because he's a dumb kid of low character, and in my mind, a coward. I don't have a problem telling this to his face either. I'm not foolish enough to get into a physical altercation, but I'm not going to play dumb either. He's the football player and sometime bouncer anyway, so if there is any teen angst, it's going to come from him. The obvious narc tendencies cloaked in the facade of a faux religious and spiritual love addict are what concerns me, but there is nothing proactive I can do about it. The longer it gets put off I have to meet him, the better.

I have zero. Except for one interaction that I'm not proud of at all. I was in the angry phase of my grieving last year. Before the ex left, she was amicable with child support / custody. We would support the kids mutually, and I would have as much time as I wanted with the kids, more than 50 if I wanted to. After she left, she said that I could see the kids every second weekend, "if I behaved, I would get to see them more" She was in her honeymoon, and putting the kids on her family, friends, and even the boyfriend as well too. I was available to watch the kids, and I don't live far from the ex, within a block. I was out for a walk, out of the house comes my kids, with the new bf. Ex was at her work and he was watching them for her. The kids see me and are coming towards me "dad!dad!"

Bf sees me, starts walking away towards the side of the townhouse complex. I told the kids to wait for me, I was trying to distance them from me. I lost my temper on the bf, the kids saw and heard me. I felt like tearing him in half. I felt anger because of being betrayed, lied to about the affair, and being denied reasonable access to the kids. After the anger subsided that day, I felt it was misdirected. I wasn't angry at him, I was angry at the ex. It made me look like the bad person that she described me as, the abusive, controlling husband. The guy wa trying to do a favor for the ex, by watching the kids. He doesn't know the entire context, and is getting the information from her. He may of been told that I had no interest in the kids, which is far from the truth.

Since that incident, he avoids me. I don't blame him. Do you think that the new guy, is going by what your ex tells him? Is he getting a distorted story of you?

My replacement, I believe is going by what my ex is saying, he's a knight in shining armor, he doesn't know better. I share similarities with him, we are sort of the same person in a way. I got involved with good intentions, but the key difference is that I never would of been involved with a married woman.

[Turkish]

My replacement, I believe is going by what my ex is saying, he's a knight in shining armor, he doesn't know better. I share similarities with him, we are sort of the same person in a way. I got involved with good intentions, but the key difference is that I never would of been involved with a married woman.

You're right, Mutt. I knew this, I know this, but it helps to be reminded of it: that this is mostly all her. I asked her once what she said about me, and she said, "honestly, we don't talk about you much," that kind of stung, but I found the humor in it. Of course the love birds are going to be wrapped up in themselves. The talk about her and me came earlier. The thing I found that she wrote: "Turkish has been nicer to me lately, I think the therapy is helping him." Of course she's painting the picture. He has no idea. I still think, despite what my T said to not do, was that I should have contacted him early on. My T said that if we were actually were married legally, that I would have been within my rights to do so and to tell him to knock it off. But the reality is that I let her go out, and she showed me what she really was (empty), so I need to accept that by refusing to be the Parent to her any longer, this was the result. I do think he's a bit more like me than her previous narc Bfs (the last one likely being an NPD who later ended up in jail). But the more that things change, the more they stay the same. She's gone back to the same.

A buddy of mine says I should go up to him and thank him profusely for rescuing me from her :^) That might be more entertaining and validating than showing anger or coming down like a Parent (since I'm old enough to be his father).

[Mutt]

I think your T is right. I didn't sense there was an affair until her dissociative phase. I knew then there was something going on, but before that, I honestly didn't know. The only thing that I recall is that she was texting an awful lot, I had asked her. She said it was a friend, and I didn't think anything about it. I can't go back and fix things.

As I said, by the time of her dissociative phase, Oct 2012 - Feb 2013, I knew there was someone else in the picture.

I was passive agressive. I didn't want to go on anymore with the r/s. I was emotionally exausted. I didn't know what I was dealing with, I recall thinking that I was going through something "unique" that no one else had gone through. I had enough with the way that I was being treated, I tried my best with being cordial, patient, understanding, but I had run out of patience.

I simply wanted it do be done. Let this happen. I can't (I don't have it in me) let you go, but please go and end this for the both of us. As you said, I did see myself in a parenting role, and I just didn't want to be in that role anymore.

Reflecting back, and analyzing what my true feelings were. I chose a passive agressive route, because I was too worried about someone else's feelings, and not looking at my own needs, boundaries, what really makes me happy.

But the more that things change, the more they stay the same. She's gone back to the same.

This is true. I had to let her go. I realized that she did fine before me, she'll do fine after me. She has coping mechanisms, we cope and process things differently. I'm grieving, processing things, trying to change and move on. Your ex is grieving most likely in this new r/s, it's her way.

Turk, it took me awhile, but I simply had to let her go and not worry about (parent) her anymore. It's her new life now. I need to start my own. I choose to live in the present, the future will come soon enough  

[Turkish]

I was passive agressive. I didn't want to go on anymore with the r/s. I was emotionally exausted. I didn't know what I was dealing with, I recall thinking that I was going through something "unique" that no one else had gone through. I had enough with the way that I was being treated, I tried my best with being cordial, patient, understanding, but I had run out of patience.

I simply wanted it do be done. Let this happen. I can't (I don't have it in me) let you go, but please go and end this for the both of us. As you said, I did see myself in a parenting role, and I just didn't want to be in that role anymore.

Reflecting back, and analyzing what my true feelings were. I chose a passive agressive route, because I was too worried about someone else's feelings, and not looking at my own needs, boundaries, what really makes me happy.

I could write this word for word about I felt. You're like my twin up North   If you're a Rush fan, all the better! (tell me if I'm stereotyping)

I knew that she would sense this from me, and I said, "there's not way this can go on for even enother few years... . " She accused me later of not taking the lead and forcing us to go to couples' counseling. I sensed that she had wanted out for a while. Her father's affair was a huge trigger around this time that I don't think she saw (since she basically mirrored him, while incorrectly identifying with her mom).

But the more that things change, the more they stay the same. She's gone back to the same.

This is true. I had to let her go. I realized that she did fine before me, she'll do fine after me. She has coping mechanisms, we cope and process things differently. I'm grieving, processing things, trying to change and move on. Your ex is grieving most likely in this new r/s, it's her way. [/quote]
Yes, and I have some mercy towards her in that regard. Despite her meanness and the abuse, she's really a damaged, abandoned little girl underneath. Let her think what she thinks and others think what they think who don't know better. Mine, however, wasn't doing fine under the surface when I met her, and she hid a lot from people, even her family. I think I was the one she wanted to rescue her in a way. I did, for a while. I think she matured a little in some ways. Me being in her life due to the kids provides that mature stability, even if I maintain LC as much as I can. She was asking me for advice the other day on what computer to buy. The juvenile part of me wanted to tell her to ask her new bf, if he was even capable. I shut that part of me down, however, and gave the minimal answer I could give. Referred her to cnet. For the sake of our kids, I'm trying to be as merciful and kind as I can.

[Mutt]

  I'm not a Rush fan, but I do appreciate good music. I'm into Josh Homme. and QoTSA.  I feel the same Turk, I can relate because we share some of the same qualities.

She accused me later of not taking the lead and forcing us to go to couples' counseling

I'm getting some of this now. Custody is settled and divorce is near. My ex is blame shifting, not on me but on MC. She said they told her to divorce.

Despite her meanness and the abuse, she's really a damaged, abandoned little girl underneath.

That's what I keep getting back to. My ex MIL, had my ex when she was 18. She didn't take care of her. My ex's primary caregiver was her grandmother on MIL's side. Her grandfather, was an abusive alcoholic. That's all of the info, that ex shared, or her family. My ex was two when her mother came back for her. Why was MIL out of the picture for two years? I don't know.

She was asking me for advice the other day on what computer to buy. The juvenile part of me wanted to tell her to ask her new bf, if he was even capable. I shut that part of me down, however, and gave the minimal answer I could give. Referred her to cnet.

If there was a computer problem at home, or a problem with an electronic device, I fixed it. Her computer broke down a month after she left. I get a call, and politely gave her names to computer repair stores around the city.

I agree. Be merciful for the kids.

[Turkish]

She called me as I was leaving work. I talked to the kids briefly, but they were also busy playing. She had taken DS4 to a beginning soccer class. Convinced me to help pay for it and I'd take him every other week based upon the cusody schedule. I did talk her out of getting almost DD2 into a class (how much is a waste of $ and time to feel like a good parent?). I talked to the kids, said that was fine, my nightly call.

845, they called me back. The kids wanted to call me as they're used to it. Talked for a little bit. I told her I appreciated it. This is the second time in a week they asked to call me. Last weekend, our son asked in the middle of the day. I know I have it luckier than most here with kids, and I've tried to be as merciful and kind as I can through all, of this, despite the things I really want to say to her. They have yet to ask to call her.

As I said earlier, I would never deny access to them if they asked to call her. I confess a certain validation in that I took care of them more for the past 8 months, really over a year as she slowly detached, in that they seem more attached to me. I cried after I talked to the kids, but I'll get them back tomorrow. We did the parenting thing well, and I got her to come to my side on more healthy methods, and I think she got and still gets that. Which is what makes this all the more tragic. I did change the rules of the "game" and she couldn't hang, desiring the continual fantasy love. Whatever it is, I am thankful she still appreciates me as a father. That is now my #1 role, and my pain over the betrayal takes a back seat. My failures are mine to own, just as are my triumphs.

[Mutt]

This.

The kids wanted to call me as they're used to it. Talked for a little bit. I told her I appreciated it. This is the second time in a week they asked to call me.

... . is because of this.

I confess a certain validation in that I took care of them more for the past 8 months, really over a year as she slowly detached, in that they seem more attached to me.

I'm going through the same thing.

My kids have yet to ask to call mom on my time, when I leave the apartment in the morning with the kids, S2 is saying he doesn't want to go back home to mom. I'm getting the ready to leave, to go to daycare, or take them out, whatever.

You are giving them attention. Your ex is not focused on the kids, she is focused on the new guy.

I cried after I talked to the kids, but I'll get them back tomorrow.

This is really tough Turk, I'm so sorry. If it's any consultation, and it's not much of an answer, but it gets easier with time.