Deal making with physical intimacy

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So... . I have the day off and my focus since getting up was to be very obvious about reaching out to uBPDw. 

I mentally prepared for rejection at some point... .

Anyway... . some nice talking and cuddling... . a very long massage 20 min or so with no sex overtones... (these things normally lead to some kind of physical intimacy). 

Then (trying to be diplomatic here)... . the sex overtones came in and lets just say she was taken care of a couple times... . all while I was waiting for what I wanted.

As we started sex she looks at me and says she hopes this means I will unlock my phone.  I give her big hug and say i don't think we should mix up these conversations... that is complex topic.  I then also said I had several options for her to take kids for spring break and that I would be happy with it.

She then stated my phone and who I was communicating with was more important than her... . and it was over.

I was calm... . victory for me there.

Now I've offered to take her out to breakfast.

Wondering about a good response other than to keep being nice.

Thoughts?

[formflier]

So... . I have the day off and my focus since getting up was to be very obvious about reaching out to uBPDw. 

I mentally prepared for rejection at some point... .

Anyway... . some nice talking and cuddling... . a very long massage 20 min or so with no sex overtones... (these things normally lead to some kind of physical intimacy). 

Then (trying to be diplomatic here)... . the sex overtones came in and lets just say she was taken care of a couple times... . all while I was waiting for what I wanted.

As we started sex she looks at me and says she hopes this means I will unlock my phone.  I give her big hug and say i don't think we should mix up these conversations... that is complex topic.  I then also said I had several options for her to take kids for spring break and that I would be happy with it.

She then stated my phone and who I was communicating with was more important than her... . and it was over.

I was calm... . victory for me there.

Now I've offered to take her out to breakfast.

Wondering about a good response other than to keep being nice.

Thoughts?

[formflier]

 

So the update to this is that before we headed out the door to breakfast she kept trying to get me to take some bait for a fight.

I tried SET... . probably got a C or so if you were grading... . it still feels artificial... . and it seems incredibly slow as I try to think through it.  My natural tendency is go straight for truth... .

She was reminding me what she said in counseling... that we were just friends... . not married any more... . that whatever I was hiding in phone was more important that her... . etc etc.


Once we walked out the door to have breakfast... . it was an awesome time. 

My hope is that I am on the downside of an the extinction burst once from once I started doing limits.

[ziniztar]

Formflier, I think you did very well. Physical intimacy should never be exchanged for anything. If you would have, you would teach her it is ok to control you in that sense and she can possibly search for more that way. Stick to it and I'm guessing she'll give up as she knows it's not working.

Good luck 

[formflier]

Yes... . we ended up having a great day together.  Saw a movie and some long normal talks.  She even mentioned that she had done research on DBT and mentioned that it was used to treat BPD. 

I had said weeks ago that DBT was something that could help us reduce conflict.  I have never mentioned BPD to her.

So... day ended well.

This morning... . tried to start out validating feelings... cuddling with her... . and she launched on a low burn rant. One of those where she is sort of in control but thinking the wrong way... jumping to conclusions... . linking things that have no business being linked.

I tried the SET thing... it may have kept the temp down some... . but it didn't fix anything.

She seems really focused on my locking my phone and gmail.  It's a boundary I have put up because I'm not going to JADE what is in there.  Another way of saying it is she grabs random stuff and people in there and declares them whores, husband stealers and all of that.  I rarely get judged fairly or given a chance to explain.  Her conclusions win.

I almost caved on this boundary this morning.  She announced that if I would give her access that it would "fix" her mental health.  I had been trying to explain that I would give her access with a neutral third party... . somebody that could keep it fair.   

Anyway... I said I would be willing to give her the access in exchange for her good mental health... .

That seemed to push her to next level.because then she said that she never said that... . then we she realized she had said that claimed I was trying to trap her... . then said maybe it would fix it.

I said maybe I would giver her access (probably a fail on my part... . as I think about it now... . I was arguing with her)... . but that what was not going to happen was that she would have access and still rant and rave about stuff.

She stormed off to shower... .

So... . please comment on what I should have done when a clear unambiguous offer was made like that. 

Thoughts?

Formflier, I think you did very well. Physical intimacy should never be exchanged for anything. If you would have, you would teach her it is ok to control you in that sense and she can possibly search for more that way. Stick to it and I'm guessing she'll give up as she knows it's not working.

Good luck 

[formflier]

 

Back to the no deal making with physical intimacy... I totally agree.

However... . what other kind of deal making is OK. 

It's got to be verifiable.  It has to be clear.  I would also think it has to be achievable.

I am considering trying to make a spring break deal... . check my other posts.  My wife keeps announcing that I have decided to let her take the kids with her for the entire spring break to her parents... . I will get nothing out of it as in get to spend no time with them.

Of course this is fair because we have NEVER gone to her parents house or seen her family in the other breaks (reality... . I think one break we stayed here... . the other 3 or 4... . was a combination of here and there. )... . she has finally acknowledged that we have gone some but that doesn't matter.

I am thinking about putting a paper in front or her to say I willingly... . lovingly... . give up all my spring break for this year and she will willingly... lovingly give up conflict on Sunday's so we can worship together without drama (don't know how I will define this on the paper).

I know senior people on this site are probably chuckling at my naivete right now... . but... . I figure it worth the effort... . and it will clarify that she is taking kids against my will.  The last couple times I stood up to this... . she didn't go or didn't do the thing she said she would do and "there was nothing I could do about it".

Anyway... I have nothing against the trip... . other than the way she is going about it... . trying to grab power and minimize my importance or role. 

Thoughts about deal making like that... .

[ziniztar]

I'm not that senior, but here'd my view:

When you start dealmaking like that, you enter the power struggle. You enter the dance while in fact you want to stop dancing. She has to learn that choices have consequenses. Stating expectations about her behaviour help. Stating boundaries on what YOU will do yourself when she crosses them, also help. But it shouldn't be in a retaliation kind of way.

[formflier]

And that is a very valid point... however... . i don't think she is going to snap out of it... . and there has to be some mechanism for deciding what to do. 

The quick update is that she signed off on my written deal that I would let her take kids on spring break and she agrees to set aside conflict on Sunday's and focus on worship... . have to see some other posts for this to make sense.

This would be the first thing that has been agreed on in writing... . in ... . I have not idea how long maybe a year.

Normally we talk... . we agree and then she will start announcing modifications to the deal.  Or we talk and she announces that talking constitutes an agreement.

So... . here is my thinking... . I'm very interested in comments on this from those that have been down this road.  I know for a fact that I will not get a fair "hearing" or verbal discussion.  I probably won't get a fair discussion or treatment when she brings conflict into Sunday and I bring up  our agreement.

However... . having this in writing is a form of reality that she will have to deal with.  I see part of the struggle with BPD is that the don't deal with reality well.  Before I would JADE to try to convince her of reality.  Maybe having things in black and white of what was actually agreed on allow me to state the truth and exit.  She can always claim that she was tricked etc etc...

Sigh... .

Anyone had success with this approach.

 

I'm not that senior, but here'd my view:

When you start dealmaking like that, you enter the power struggle. You enter the dance while in fact you want to stop dancing. She has to learn that choices have consequenses. Stating expectations about her behaviour help. Stating boundaries on what YOU will do yourself when she crosses them, also help. But it shouldn't be in a retaliation kind of way.