Wanting to fight but how much hope is there?

[mbackman678]

This is going to be a long story, so please just bare with me. In the beginning, it will probably sound like he probably doesn't have BPD. Just keep reading. The more this progresses, the more it'll start to come through. This was from my introduction.

I'll be completely honest when I say I never thought of coming to a forum like this. My situation has been an insane rollercoaster with my husband. I had first guessed major depression, then perhaps bi-polar depression, and now after much research, he sounds incredibly similar to others with BPD. He has shown definite traits of it, anyway. He has not been diagnosed with anything at this time, mostly because he absolutely refuses to seek help. My husband and I have been together for 2 years and married for 8 months. So, not long at all.

However, he and I had an instant connection from the very beginning. We had similarities and differences that worked well with each other. I am the talkative, temperamental, creative one and he was the quiet, level-headed, tactical one. We both enjoyed activities together and shared a similar sense of humor. We could always poke fun at each other. He was a wonderful step-father to my son, and my baby adores him.

Yes, sadly, I do have to speak in past tense when I talk about him. My husband was a Marine, and really lived up to that title. He was a man of honor, courage and commitment. Everyone who met him loved him. We were both very affectionate with each other every day, and always said "I love you". He and I were very happy. We both had good paying jobs, we were in the process of buying a house, and I had just got accepted into nursing school. However, starting about two months ago, I started seeing a change in my husband. You see, we had really bad hours when it came to our jobs. I worked 2-10 and he worked midnight-8. He would sleep in the morning when I was awake and I would be at work when he was awake watching our son.

We also live in a very tiny town (3,000 people), and there isn't much to do even when we have time together. I knew it was stressful on both of us, but we were doing our best to be positive.  He  though... . a couple of weeks before the avalanche began, I started seeing a change in him. He was distant... . and sometimes sad. Then suddenly he would be sharp with me and very passive aggressive. He would ignore me when I talked most of the time. Of course it upset me, and this started a lot more fights between us. He would go from being cold and distant, to incredibly loving and affection, to deeply deeply sad.

One morning I woke up with him just sitting next to me in the bed and staring off at nothing. He just looked at me and said, "I'm sorry I only make you sad... . " I tried to comfort him, telling him that he made me very happy too. We were just going through a rough time. The next day, that's when he came to me and said we needed to walk away from buying our house because we needed to figure out us. I was of course devastated.  He sobbed and held me, continuously saying how much he loved me and how he never meant to hurt me. He cried about how he didn't want to be alone and how no one liked him. About 30 minutes later, he was yelling in my face, "What would you know about abandonment?" when I had questioned why he would want to abandon his family. It didn't really come out until later when I spoke to his mom, but he had always felt abandoned by her. She always put the men in her life first. His previous girlfriends also abandoned him. One gave him a Dear John letter when he was overseas.

That crying over the next couple of days turned into absolute coldness. We would still have intimacy once in awhile. I had talked to him about it and expressed that right now it was more of a physical release than a deep emotional bonding (thinking he felt the same way). After all, how could it be deep and emotional? He just said he wanted out of the marriage. He got incredibly angry, and said, "You know exactly where to shoot me, don't you?" That utterly confused me. That night he said how he wanted to earn back my trust. We slept together again, but then he acted very strange the rest of the night. He would just lay there, staring at the ceiling. He kept getting up, walking around, sitting on the couch, then back into the bedroom, waking me up just to ask me if the tv was waking me up. Finally, around 7 in the morning, he begged me to let him go drive. He just needed to drive. He needed to get out of the house. He disappeared for 4 hours.

He went to one counseling session with me and refused to go back. He couldn't even explain to the therapist why he felt the way he did. He couldn't explain his goals, his wants, his desires. She asked him what he wanted from the marriage in 5 years. He said, "I hope to still be married to my wife." However, when we got out, he said he refused to go back. That all we did was gang up on him and belittle him. I knew that wasn't true. All she wanted to do was have him open up. He doesn't believe in therapy or medicine, so he refuses treatment.  As I said before, I am the more emotional one (I was before all of this, anyway). I kept trying to hold myself together, but it was incredibly difficult. Finally, one morning I tried to be gentle to him and asked him to please try to work on this. He said he couldn't, because he had absolutely no more love for me. Either I needed to get out, or he would. I couldn't afford the place by myself, so I had no choice but to leave.

I went to Vegas to stay with my mom for a couple of weeks. At first he wouldn't talk to me, but eventually agreed to talk and see how things went. He had backed off the subject of divorce. I tried to be calm with him, but his behavior with me was very cold and distant. He hardly spoke when I talked. He was there, but he wasn't there. I told him that I was going to keep my phone away from myself for a few days to give myself some space and for him to have some space too. When I called him three days later, instead of being calmer like I had hoped he would be, he was very angry and meaner than ever. He said to me, "well, welcome back from your little break! The problems are all still here!" As if I was hiding from it all. 

Whenever I would tell him I loved him, he would respond with, "uh huh". He clearly didn't believe me. Whenever an argument would come up, he would all of a sudden say, "What am I suppose to think, when you're the one who walked out on me and agreed to a divorce?" Ummm... . what? I told him he was the one who gave me the ultimatum. I gave him space, but never agreed to a divorce. He seriously doesn't remember saying it. I never saw anyone during this time, but even if the concept of me moving on with another man someday would come up, he would get extremely angry. He also repeated about how I would flip flop. True, in the beginning I did. It was all out of confusion, hurt, anger and fear. I've stabilized since then - the first few weeks were the most brutal. Now he's gotten to a point where he recognizes he flip flops too.

So, I finally returned back home. It was very late at night, and he was out helping a friend move. When he came in, he sat down beside me and we talked for a bit. I gave him the gifts I bought him out in Vegas. He suddenly hugged me really tight, which of course I accepted. We talked a little more, and then he hugged me again for no reason. We were intimate that night, but around 4 in the morning he refused to sleep in the bed with me. I sat with him and tried to tell him that I understood right now he didn't feel like he could really express love towards me. That's when he said, "when I walked in and saw you, I felt nothing. I slept with you to try to feel something, but it didn't do anything for me." I knew it was a lie. That wasn't me being in denial, I could tell just by his greeting me that it wasn't true.

He suddenly brought up divorce again. When I asked why, he said because he was having an emotional affair with one of his coworkers. I told him that I was deeply wounded, but that I still wanted to try to fix our marriage. He started screaming at me that if I didn't file, that he would. I still said I wouldn't do it. He got up and said how I would regret my decision. How all he was going to do was bring me down. How I had lost all my morals by staying with a man like him. He said, "I don't love you! I don't want this marriage! There is nothing to work on! I feel nothing for you!"

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[mbackman678]

This went on for awhile through the night. He still continued to demand a divorce, but he at least stopped shouting. Finally he said, "I am messed up in the head. Right now, I want a divorce. Maybe in 6 months I'll change my mind." I had said, "If you want a divorce without a shred of doubt in your heart, then tell me so. You are letting me go as your wife and I am free to do whatever I want and see whomever I want just like you can. That this is the end and you won't change your mind later on." That made him stop and hesitate. He then said, "... . I don't know."

The next couple days after that, he seemed much more gentle. More affectionate too. He would actually reach out and stroke my hair once in awhile, let me lay beside him, etc. He still wouldn't say "I love you" and I didn't say it to him. I knew that felt like pressure to him, but I kept quiet. I knew I wasn't going to stay in the house - I was going to be living with my grandma 5 hours away. He said that was what he wanted to, but he had tears in his eyes when he talked about it. He said he wanted to work on things, how he felt much more positive about us. He had admitted he was talking to three girls. He had told two of them that he was not talking to them anymore. The third one he wanted to wait in person to tell. However, when he talked about doing so, he seemed hesitant.

However, one night, everything changed. He was on the phone with a coworker, who he said was a man. I could tell by how he talked to the person that it wasn't a man. He said it was a male coworker that he was going to pick up and drive to work. So, he gave me a kiss and left. I couldn't sleep all night. I knew something wasn't right. So, in the morning, I drove over to his work to see him. That was when I saw the girl get into the car with him. That hurt more than anything. I was furious, I was devastated. I called him and demanded he come home. He told me I was being crazy and how I had better not follow them. So, I got home and waited. He came home, and then everything exploded.

It was the girl he was hesitant on telling they needed to cut ties. He had told me that he was trying to tell her that it needed to end. That wasn't my issue. My issue was his lying about it. Why didn't he just tell me that was going to happen? I had the divorce papers out and ready. He said he was leaving to go help his friend move. He refused to stay and talk. About an hour later he called me. By that time I had cooled off. He screamed at me about how I humiliated him, and how if I wasn't going to file for divorce, he was. He demanded that it be done. At that point, I was so heartbroken that I just agreed. We didn't talk for hours until he came home. I was just about to leave when he did.

He was much calmer by that point. He had asked if I wanted to talk. I had said yes. He was quiet this time but got defensive, saying how I clearly had made up my mind about the divorce. I had asked him if he had. He said no. That I was destined for great things, and how he was nothing. He would never amount to anything. I was the smarted person he knew, and I was going to live a fulfilling life. I told him that that was nonsense, that he had all the potential in the world to go far in his life.

He wouldn't listen. I knew he had changed his mind about the divorce, he didn't want it anymore. He had told the girl I caught him in the car with that their relationship had to be strictly professional. I asked him if he still wanted to talk while I lived away, and he said yes. He wanted to talk and see how things went. A few days later, I had to go back to get some registration stuff for the car done. I kept calling him to let him know I was coming, but he never answered. So I got to the house, but didn't have a house key. I kept banging on the door, and finally the door swung open. Justin was blocking me from allowing me inside. I knew right away why. I asked him, "She's in here, isn't she?" He said yes. I told him she needed to get out of MY house. He seemed deeply concerned that I was going to attack her. Granted, I wanted to, but I can't exactly become a nurse with an assault charge on my record.

That girl ran the moment we made eye contact. She's terrified of me now. He drove her to the house, so I allowed him to take her back. I started to pack up when he returned. He was very quiet. I had asked him why did he lie. He said he hadn't, but couldn't explain how it had come to that point. He said nothing physical had happened, but I don't believe him. He said he didn't realize the repercussions of his actions until it happened. He cried (not bawled, just some tears). He said I was an amazing wife, and he truly had everything in life. He said he should have accepted my forgiveness when he had the chance. His actions wasn't worth the price he paid. He couldn't even explain to me why she was so special. He said she wasn't worth losing me.

He left for a little while, and came back. His attitude, once again, had changed. He returned back to the cold, mean man he was before. By this point, I had wanted to discuss some serious changes that needed to be made. I, of course, didn't want to divorce. He had said it needed to happen. He finally said how he had lost all his morals. He was once a good guy - THE good guy. Now he is a bad man. A very bad man. He is sick, and he needs help. He says he has to hit rock bottom before he can begin to rebuild himself. He wanted to protect me from the bad man he had become. He said he can still see the images of his friends being shot or blown up in Afghanistan and not recoil at the memory, but he can't look into my eyes. He can't. He can't stand the incredible shame and guilt. To see the pain in my eyes was overwhelming. It was too much for him.

I told him for me, a divorce was final. There was no going back after a divorce. He said he hoped one day I would change my mind about that. I asked him why he was being so cold again. He suddenly shouted that it was the only way for me to get the point that it was done. He kept repeating "Let me go! I am worthless!" He cried a little again, then got angry and stormed out for a few more hours. He knew I was tired and was going to need some rest, so he allowed me to stay the night. I had to ask him multiple times just for him to agree to come home in the morning after work. In the morning, I had asked him if this is what he wanted. He didn't answer that, but he said he hoped it wasn't going to be forever.

I was quiet the next couple of days after I came to my grandma's house. I decided that now was the time for me to make a real change in myself. I needed. I was weak, I wasn't strong, and it was time for me to be so. I called my best friend from Texas, a deeply devote Christian woman. She has two mentors, husband and wife, who bible study with her and helped her through her incredibly hard times with her drug-addicted fiancee. I Skype with them and explained what was going on. The husband paused for a moment and said, "I don't know him personally... . but I think he is a good man. You did well picking him out. He is lost, he is confused, and he is trying to figure himself out again. Give him that space, give him that time. It's time to focus on you." He also said, "How would you want him to love you? If the roles were reversed, would you want him to fight for you for a couple of weeks and then give up?" I said no. And then he said, "You promised your life to him? You promised to love him unconditionally? Show him that unconditional love. He thought by having an affair, it was an easy way out of the marriage. Take that power from him. This love is your love. He cannot change that."

So, that is what I did. I sent him a text to let him know I would not be filing anything, and that I refuse from here on out to file. I sent him a letter in the mail to talk more deeply about it. A few days later, he called me and said either I had to file or he would. I told him no. We didn't decide to get married in a month, and we aren't going to decide to get divorced in a month. He was going to have to face the fact that I wasn't budging anymore. He yelled at me about how it was pointless to talk to me, and then said he would think on things and talk to me later.

That was when I hit the ground running when it came to my spiritual growth. I focused on meditation, to clear my mind of anxieties. To relax myself whenever I could. I began to bible study with the couple over Skype twice a week. Everyone could start to see a real change in me, including my husband. I was much calmer when approached by his anger. Finally, he said that he wanted to rebuild our foundation. To start rebuilding the friendship in order to get to the point of a relationship. And, that we should refrain from being intimate with each other during this time. I agreed, although things changed just a couple of days later. He had admitted that he was still going to pursue the other woman romantically.

I didn't scream, I didn't yell, I didn't get angry... . I just asked why. Why would he pursue her while trying to repair things with me? It made no sense. He couldn't explain. Finally, for the first time since this all began, he admitted me missed me. That was a huge step. He also admitted that the reason he didn't want to be intimate with me was because it made him emotional. He didn't want to feel emotional. He wanted to be numb like he did before. I told him that if he continued to pursue her, that I was going to refrain from speaking to him. Not file for divorce, nothing like that. I just wasn't going to allow him to say he was going to work things with me and still keep her in his life.

I gave him some time while I put all my energy into God and my son. I had to go up there to sign the cancellation papers for the divorce. He called me while I was driving. The weather was really bad, so I was going to be running a few minutes late. He got incredibly angry for no reason, starting yelling at me about how annoying it was that I couldn't just give him an exact time of when I was going to be there and how I just needed to "drop it already". I cried. It hurt to hear him be so mean for no reason. He started saying how, "You changed! You were all Godly, and now you're crying just like before!" As if me seeking God was suddenly going to make me not hurt?

He then said he was going on a 'hiatus' just like I did in Vegas. When I asked him why, he said, "You said you were going to! I don't want to talk to anyone right now! Everyone manipulates me! And you are the worst manipulator of all! I just want complete and total silence so I can think!" I did agree to allow him 4 days of no contact. He said, "And on Monday, I will text you. If you don't respond, then I'll know where you are in this marriage." What? So, we met to sign off the papers and we talked a little. Once again, I was very calm and did not yell or accuse. I merely asked questions.

I asked him why he felt I was manipulating him. Then I asked if I was manipulating, or was I the voice of reason that he didn't want to hear. He agreed to the second option. I then asked what was so special about her. He paused for a long time and said, "I have no idea. If I had an answer for you, I would give it to you." Then he allowed me to hold him for a little while and stroke his hair. I told him it hurt me to see him in so much pain. He said it hurt him to see me in pain too. When we had talked earlier, he said once the papers were signed he was done talking to me until Monday. However, after we saw each other in person, he said later that night if I needed to get anything else on the table to talk about, I could. He kept saying how sorry he was before he left.

I said what I needed to say to him a few hours later, and that was that. I only called him once yesterday because of an important thing we had to discuss (he said only to contact in case of emergencies). He asked me if he could call me again that night, although he never did. I knew he wasn't going to, and so I didn't reach out to him either. I am giving him his space, just like he asked. Who knows what will come by Monday?

Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do? I am putting a lot of focus on myself. I have given him all the freedom in the world since I left to file for divorce should he want to. He has yet to have done so. He hasn't even filled out the papers. He has said a couple of times that a divorce isn't what he wants, but will still threaten to leave me if I don't do what he wants. My husband is a very quiet person to begin with. I was the one he talked to the most. Now his silence is even worse, and if I ever, ever ask him about his feelings he explodes.

[traumaj1]

Some of your story sounds a lot like mine. I tried absolutely everything and it was just one big circle after another. I wanted to stay true to my vows, but I think I've finally come to the end. Last week we decided to reconcile and put her cheating behind us. Two days later,  I found text messages between the two of them. As much as I love her, I think I've got to be done. The constant lying and cheating will never go away!

Like you, I also gave everything to my marriage... . I still find myself saying "if only she would" all the time. I really want her to have an epiphany and realize that she is throwing away so many good things.

I've also addressed her conduct and showed her how she fits into the BPD category. Of course, she denies it and refuses to seek treatment... . despite the fact that she'll tell you she has major issues from her past that she needs to address.

I'd like to give you some insightful advice, but I seem to be stuck in the same place. I will tell you one thing... . Our issues have made nursing school one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. There was so much unneeded stress.   I wish you luck in school!  Sorry for rambling on your post... . you're not alone I guess.

[an0ught]

Hi mbackman678,

wow, what a long and elaborate post  .

This is really good as it gets your story into one of your first posts where others find it  . But please keep in mind that short to medium posts focused on single issues work best in a forum format.

Whenever I would tell him I loved him, he would respond with, "uh huh". He clearly didn't believe me. Whenever an argument would come up, he would all of a sudden say, "What am I suppose to think, when you're the one who walked out on me and agreed to a divorce?" Ummm... . what? I told him he was the one who gave me the ultimatum. I gave him space, but never agreed to a divorce. He seriously doesn't remember saying it. I never saw anyone during this time, but even if the concept of me moving on with another man someday would come up, he would get extremely angry. He also repeated about how I would flip flop. True, in the beginning I did. It was all out of confusion, hurt, anger and fear. I've stabilized since then - the first few weeks were the most brutal. Now he's gotten to a point where he recognizes he flip flops too.

What you are doing here is natural but it is problematic. When there is a crisis professions of love will be perceived as invalidating and make matters worse. Check out my post here on validation: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=221022.0 . Learning how to deal with negative emotions in a way that relieves emotional pressure is very important.

You wrote that your husband is a marine and you have not described a life-long pattern of emotional difficulties. In that light it also could be that your husband may be suffering from PTSD. From the outside perspective of us we are dealing with someone who struggles dealing with their own emotions so the tools (see above in the LESSONS) will all be helpful to you.

He suddenly brought up divorce again. When I asked why, he said because he was having an emotional affair with one of his coworkers. I told him that I was deeply wounded, but that I still wanted to try to fix our marriage. He started screaming at me that if I didn't file, that he would. I still said I wouldn't do it. He got up and said how I would regret my decision. How all he was going to do was bring me down. How I had lost all my morals by staying with a man like him. He said, "I don't love you! I don't want this marriage! There is nothing to work on! I feel nothing for you!"

For someone who does not feel anything he is quite emotional.

It does not sound like he knows what he wants. He probably can't think very clearly. He may sense that your expectations are an obligation on him that he can't carry and feels overwhelmed.

Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do? I am putting a lot of focus on myself. I have given him all the freedom in the world since I left to file for divorce should he want to. He has yet to have done so. He hasn't even filled out the papers. He has said a couple of times that a divorce isn't what he wants, but will still threaten to leave me if I don't do what he wants. My husband is a very quiet person to begin with. I was the one he talked to the most. Now his silence is even worse, and if I ever, ever ask him about his feelings he explodes.

Keeping some respectful distance may be good considering how sensitive he has become.

Boundaries protect us - Validation connects us. Both are needed in a healthy relationship. You may want to start on the validation side as it also helps you to get a deeper understanding of what is going on.