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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: Help with talking to pwBPD about something that will set them off.  (Read 386 times)
Cipher13
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« on: May 22, 2014, 06:49:51 AM »

I wanted to start a thread about different way to open communications to a pwBPD that are topics that important to the non but may set off the BPD. 

Example#1

I have to plan a business trip that includes a co-worker (male). I have been on this trip 2 other times and each of those times my wife went also. Both times and more so the last time she made it very difficult to get work done. This time I would like to not bring her. What are ways I can discuss this with her. I know there will be rages over it but I want to find ways that I remain strong and not get in the position where I cave in or make the situation worse.

Eaxmple #2

I just mentioned to my wife that I would like to reconnect with my family. She hasn't blown up about it as bad as I feared but think it becasue I sprung it on her without time for her to over think it. I wan to be able to explain that I am doing this for me and if she would like to that would be great. She can't understand why I would consider it with or realtionship being as broken as it is. How am I going to make her fall in love with me again is her question to me.
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Waddams
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2014, 08:28:37 AM »

Excerpt
I wanted to start a thread about different way to open communications to a pwBPD that are topics that important to the non but may set off the BPD.

I know in the past, I've too often got lost trying to figure out how to make an PDx agree with me and worried about their reactions too much.  I think instead I'd have been better off to keep it short and sweet and set a boundary instead of try to obtain their agreement or support. 

We non-'s tend to try to think cooperative, and we project that onto other people.  And while it's a good thing to work things out cooperative, sometimes it's not healthy to try it with certain people, such as pwBPD or other PD's.  It's really hit me hard in the last month or so how important it is to not over-do it when trying to work out a cooperative solution to an issue with someone whose point of view is skewed about said issue.  Another way to put it is you can't reason with irrational.

They'll actually respect you more if you set firm, consistent boundaries with them.  There will be other issues and they'll try to break down your boundaries, but holding your boundaries is a different issue.  In the end, they'll either leave for someone else they can manipulate easier, or they'll learn from your consistency that you really aren't out to hurt them, they'll trust more eventually, and things will get better.  Either way, the drama tones down.

Excerpt
Example#1

I have to plan a business trip that includes a co-worker (male). I have been on this trip 2 other times and each of those times my wife went also. Both times and more so the last time she made it very difficult to get work done. This time I would like to not bring her. What are ways I can discuss this with her. I know there will be rages over it but I want to find ways that I remain strong and not get in the position where I cave in or make the situation worse.

My vote is for short and sweet.  "I have a work trip, and I need to be very productive.  I'm going alone so I can just focus on the work I need to do."  That sets the boundary.  You're going alone.  She'll fight it, but holding your boundary is different from the decision to be made.

Excerpt
Eaxmple #2

I just mentioned to my wife that I would like to reconnect with my family. She hasn't blown up about it as bad as I feared but think it becasue I sprung it on her without time for her to over think it. I wan to be able to explain that I am doing this for me and if she would like to that would be great. She can't understand why I would consider it with or realtionship being as broken as it is. How am I going to make her fall in love with me again is her question to me.

Short and sweet - I'm going to visit my family.  Dates are (whatever they are).  You're welcome to come along.  If not, I'll see you when I get back.

As for why you'd consider it with the relationship being broken - it's because you're human and you need supportive community and family.  You need them even more in tough times.  Having the comfort of extended family support in tough times makes it easier to get through tough times.  It builds you up and strengthens you.  And you don't need to justify and defend your desire to have better relationships with your family.  Not to anyone.  Again - this is an issue where boundaries are required, not her agreement.  Set your boundaries for you, and hold them.

As for her question of how you're going to make her fall in love with you again? - Just my humble opinion, but you can't make her do or not do anything.  It's up to her to engage in the relationship in a healthy fashion.  And you're not responsible for how she feels. 

She's not going to change unless she has to.  And if you give in to trying to "make her love you again" (and there all kinds of unhealthy aspects to that), she won't have to change. 

Your allowing yourself to be controlled and manipulated by her through your fear.  I guarantee you she knows this, and preys on it.  People with BPD are very good at reading other people emotionally.  If you want to break out of all this, it's going to start with letting go of your fear of her. 
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Cipher13
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 09:03:59 AM »

Good stuff as usual. My boundaries have been my worst component to my relationship. They just do not exist and I don't keep up the ones I attempt to set for very long.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 10:43:15 AM »

So set another boundary first:

I will not be subject to raging (verbal abuse). If your partner starts, you will disengage, and leave the conversation.

This is a critical first step... . because she has learned that she gets what she wants from you by raging at you. So ANY other attempt to enforce a boundary will trigger a rage, which will defeat your boundary. (You pretty much admit that you taught her this by example)

Once you realize that you don't have to fear her raging (After you leave, she can rage at the walls as long as she wants!) you can enforce other boundaries as the two that waddams suggested.

Good stuff as usual. My boundaries have been my worst component to my relationship. They just do not exist and I don't keep up the ones I attempt to set for very long.

Have you read the Workshop on Extinction Bursts and Intermittent Reinforcement?

What you have been doing is sometimes giving in to demands when she applies pressure, or at least when she raises the pressure high enough. Sadly, this is one of the strongest ways to condition her to keep trying at it.

Getting over it and re-training her will be tough. Settle in and expect a bit of WW3 to erupt, but know that if you make it through, your life will be so much better.

Having a firm boundary that you will not stick around and be yelled at (or stick around and yell back) is your best tool here.
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Cipher13
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 11:40:09 AM »

Here are some things she wants from me:

"I'd like to know what you are going to do to make me love you again.  Starting right now because everything about you I hate and despise.  I believe nothing from you"

And my favorite:

"And stop telling me no and let me have what I want! If I ask for something or want you to do something please let me have it or do it."

Its too much to deal with.
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hergestridge
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 12:19:39 PM »

My experience is that you will lose either way and that you are wasting your time. If I try to involve my BPDw it triggers her to get bossy and manipulative. If I make plans without her she feels invalidated and makes a terrible scene. The only way she accepts is that I ask her "... . can I do this please?", so that I am at her mercy. This means she can say yes and later change her mind if her mood changes.
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Grey Kitty
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2014, 01:18:50 PM »

Here are some things she wants from me:

"I'd like to know what you are going to do to make me love you again.  Starting right now because everything about you I hate and despise.  I believe nothing from you"

If she just said something like this, she is already dysregulated, and anything you say or do will make it worse.

Cut your losses and end the conversation for later.

I've said things like "That's an impossible request. I'm not playing that game." She'll say something else to try to provoke you into jumping back into the fray, but don't do it. If she has a specific, valid concern about your behavior, you can discuss it later.

I've also said things like (while trying not to slam the door!) "I'm going away because if I stick around I'll say something that I will later regret."

Excerpt
And my favorite:

"And stop telling me no and let me have what I want! If I ask for something or want you to do something please let me have it or do it."

Again... . it isn't a valid request. Don't play that game either. A valid request is one that identifies specific behavior of mine that she wants me to change.

If you let her define the question that is being negotiated, she can set up "Heads I win, Tails you lose."

However... . if she is dysregulated, you won't be able to convince her that the question/request isn't valid. So cut your losses and end the conversation!
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