Why is my mother so intimidated by my brother?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

He was the scapegoat. Older than me by a couple of years by a different father. I was 'my dad's' golden child which didn't stop him disciplining the living daylights out of me.

Events surrounding my conception and my parents' cloak-and-dagger past have come to light yesterday and left me reeling.

My mother is classic BPD - all emotional ambivalence and childish petulance. Also at times an incredibly supportive and helpful person. Unable to listen to any difficult experience I have ever had without cannibalising it, owning it or outright competing for the limelight of "Whose-experience-was-worse-yours-or-mine?" a game she always wins. And has just won again leaving me feeling that the voice I was starting to hear - my very own voice (reedy and unsure but certainly mine)

In a 'triangulation classical' with me for more than 35 years believing the propaganda she spun regarding my brother and his spite, cruelty and unkind behaviour towards her. In mutual support now we (my brother and I) have been working very steadily toward a much stronger and healthier bond and almost nonexistent suspicion.

He has been awake to BPDm's anomalies for more than 20 years - myself for less than 4 months. She and him have very very limited contact (mostly on her side) and she avoids him and refers to him as not treating her with honour or respect because he maintains his boundaries firmly.

Lately as she loses my support in deep co dependence - as I move away - she senses my 'abandonment' of her and is becoming increasingly erratic and paranoid about me and my brother's 'collusion against her'

She will call me and rail in anger that I have said something to him and now he has said she has said we all said a said said.

I say "Mum - if you have a problem with what he says, talk to him. It's not got to do with me." "No I can't because-" a million excuses.

"YOU told him this and THAT was in confidence" "I had no idea that that bit of general information was in confidence. I apologise. Anyway what difference does it make?" "Welllll ... . people will believe it and it's not true." "If it's not true, what does it matter?" Blah blah - you've all been there - you know the futility of it all.

What I don't get is why she keeps calling ME to tell ME off for having a normal family type r/ship with him? I know she thinks I should be on her side. I know she thinks I'm being disloyal (Am I scared? Oh hell yeah. There WILL be payback for this defection of mine)

If she were to make one iota of concession to him. Make one observation of genuine approval for the things he has achieved, the burdens he has borne, the success he has made of his life from very dubious beginnings, the incredibly kind and helpful things he has done quietly secretly and without credit FOR HER, it would go miles towards promoting a r/ship with him but she won't do it. Just refuses to acknowledge it. Or rather acknowledges it but with no genuine appreciation. rather just lip service - a nod to what is proper, what is good manners.

Why's she so damn scared of him?

[Ziggiddy]

He was the scapegoat. Older than me by a couple of years by a different father. I was 'my dad's' golden child which didn't stop him disciplining the living daylights out of me.

Events surrounding my conception and my parents' cloak-and-dagger past have come to light yesterday and left me reeling.

My mother is classic BPD - all emotional ambivalence and childish petulance. Also at times an incredibly supportive and helpful person. Unable to listen to any difficult experience I have ever had without cannibalising it, owning it or outright competing for the limelight of "Whose-experience-was-worse-yours-or-mine?" a game she always wins. And has just won again leaving me feeling that the voice I was starting to hear - my very own voice (reedy and unsure but certainly mine)

In a 'triangulation classical' with me for more than 35 years believing the propaganda she spun regarding my brother and his spite, cruelty and unkind behaviour towards her. In mutual support now we (my brother and I) have been working very steadily toward a much stronger and healthier bond and almost nonexistent suspicion.

He has been awake to BPDm's anomalies for more than 20 years - myself for less than 4 months. She and him have very very limited contact (mostly on her side) and she avoids him and refers to him as not treating her with honour or respect because he maintains his boundaries firmly.

Lately as she loses my support in deep co dependence - as I move away - she senses my 'abandonment' of her and is becoming increasingly erratic and paranoid about me and my brother's 'collusion against her'

She will call me and rail in anger that I have said something to him and now he has said she has said we all said a said said.

I say "Mum - if you have a problem with what he says, talk to him. It's not got to do with me." "No I can't because-" a million excuses.

"YOU told him this and THAT was in confidence" "I had no idea that that bit of general information was in confidence. I apologise. Anyway what difference does it make?" "Welllll ... . people will believe it and it's not true." "If it's not true, what does it matter?" Blah blah - you've all been there - you know the futility of it all.

What I don't get is why she keeps calling ME to tell ME off for having a normal family type r/ship with him? I know she thinks I should be on her side. I know she thinks I'm being disloyal (Am I scared? Oh hell yeah. There WILL be payback for this defection of mine)

If she were to make one iota of concession to him. Make one observation of genuine approval for the things he has achieved, the burdens he has borne, the success he has made of his life from very dubious beginnings, the incredibly kind and helpful things he has done quietly secretly and without credit FOR HER, it would go miles towards promoting a r/ship with him but she won't do it. Just refuses to acknowledge it. Or rather acknowledges it but with no genuine appreciation. rather just lip service - a nod to what is proper, what is good manners.

Why's she so damn scared of him?

[nomom4me]

My brother and I take turns being the scapegoat, most of my life it was him and my mother said all kinds of nasty things, destroyed his relationship with his daughter and trampled his self esteem along with it.  I don't know why he still seeks her approval, but he does - and he finally got it, not that she dotes on him - but she can only have one scapegoat.

Now it's me, and the stories are the same.  According to extended family I have "decided to raise my child away from the love of a family".  In reality I made very simple boundaries that she would rather fight than respect.  In reality she has no idea how I parent because she has meant my daughter once.  She doesn't like me around because I am not caught up in her web, and believing/verifying all the lies.  That is very scary for her, they prefer people who believe whatever they say.

[HappyChappy]

He was the scapegoat... .Why's she so damn scared of him?

Speeking as the scapegoat in my BPD family, is is possible the following is true ? BPD have black and white thinking - so the scapegoat must be black. Anything that conflicts with that attacks the BPD fantasy thinking. We know the two things a Borderline is scared of more than anything are abandoment and attacks on their fantasy world. Both those things are being attacked in your post.

Your BPD fantasy probably has her as a just and fair Queen. So unless her scapegoat is demonstrating failure and attending court, she's not happy. She speeks to you, because you are still showing a level of obedience and presumably you're the good one, so she requires you to follow her will. How else can your BPD influence a subject that won't come to court ? Propoganda. So it's possible your BPD isn't scared of you brother, but scared her fantasy world is out of kilter with her kids behavior. Scared there is dissloyalty at court. Remember Starlin, King jong young, Hitler all murdered their most loyal advisors, whilst leaving scapegoats alive. They've got to have someone to kick. So who were they scared off ?

[Ziggiddy]

  I don't know why he still seeks her approval, but he does - and he finally got it, not that she dotes on him - but she can only have one scapegoat.

  She doesn't like me around because I am not caught up in her web, and believing/verifying all the lies.  That is very scary for her, they prefer people who believe whatever they say.

That was very  enlightening, nmfm. I should know that. It is too scary. And their shakily constructed house lives and stands on approval. Lack of it brings the whole shebang tumbling around their feet. Thank you for the reminder.

BPD have black and white thinking - so the scapegoat must be black. Anything that conflicts with that attacks the BPD fantasy thinking. We know the two things a Borderline is scared of more than anything are abandoment and attacks on their fantasy world.

HC I confess I did not see that point so clearly before. The abandonment, yes but not about the fantasy world. How did I miss that. SO true. So so true. Very insightful.

Your BPD fantasy probably has her as a just and fair Queen. So unless her scapegoat is demonstrating failure and attending court, she's not happy. She speeks to you, because you are still showing a level of obedience and presumably you're the good one, so she requires you to follow her will. How else can your BPD influence a subject that won't come to court ? Propoganda. So it's possible your BPD isn't scared of you brother, but scared her fantasy world is out of kilter with her kids behavior. Scared there is dissloyalty at court. Remember Starlin, King jong young, Hitler all murdered their most loyal advisors, whilst leaving scapegoats alive. They've got to have someone to kick. So who were they scared off ?

WOW reeling. This is ... .I can't even think of the right word. I didn't remember about those tyrants but it's true in history - excellent excellent point to ponder. Like that saying about keeping your friends close but your enemies closer.

I am unceasingly surprised at the way my emotions interfere with my clarity of thought. Thank you very much for your comments. Really given me some good thoughts to ponder

[funfunctional]

My one thought about your post is the "he said, she said" and the not going direct communication issue.   Anything I say to my dad he repeats to my sister and whether he intended to put a spin on it or not- SHE (BPD) puts the spin on it.   

Trust.  There is none.   BPD sister doesn't trust.    I get it becuz I struggle with trusting too.   The not trusting started at childhood.  My mother pinned us against each other.     But now it is the grown up children's responsibility to move on.   

Communication within a family really has to be as direct as possible.   There's that old saying "don't kill the messenger".     The messenger ALWAYS gets killed.

[P.F.Change]

She will call me and rail in anger that I have said something to him and now he has said she has said we all said a said said.

I say "Mum - if you have a problem with what he says, talk to him. It's not got to do with me."

That sounds like a good boundary.

"No I can't because-" a million excuses.

"YOU told him this and THAT was in confidence" "I had no idea that that bit of general information was in confidence. I apologise. Anyway what difference does it make?" "Welllll ... . people will believe it and it's not true." "If it's not true, what does it matter?" Blah blah - you've all been there - you know the futility of it all.

How could a similar boundary help you stay out of circular arguments like this?

What I don't get is why she keeps calling ME to tell ME off for having a normal family type r/ship with him?

One possible reason is that you keep listening when she does. Another is that she has a personality disorder. You can expect her to act like someone with a PD, Ziggidy--not like someone who doesn't. So you can expect her to keep trying to triangulate, whether you participate or not. Are you familiar with the Karpman Triangle? Our Dysfunctional Relationships with Others

If she were to make one iota of concession to him. Make one observation of genuine approval for the things he has achieved, the burdens he has borne, the success he has made of his life from very dubious beginnings, the incredibly kind and helpful things he has done quietly secretly and without credit FOR HER, it would go miles towards promoting a r/ship with him but she won't do it. Just refuses to acknowledge it. Or rather acknowledges it but with no genuine appreciation. rather just lip service - a nod to what is proper, what is good manners.

It sounds like you have some wishful thinking that your mother would act like someone else. We've all been there. Reality is different--your mother is who she is. She needs to have someone to project all of her negativity onto because she does not have the skills to accept the negative things about herself. Your brother is where all of that goes--it is how she copes. Not fair to him or to your hopes for a happy family, but that is the reality. It is arbitrary--I don't think it has anything to do with him. I think it is more likely she is afraid of herself, of feeling shame.

[isshebpd]

It sounds like you have some wishful thinking that your mother would act like someone else. We've all been there. Reality is different--your mother is who she is. She needs to have someone to project all of her negativity onto because she does not have the skills to accept the negative things about herself. Your brother is where all of that goes--it is how she copes. Not fair to him or to your hopes for a happy family, but that is the reality. It is arbitrary--I don't think it has anything to do with him. I think it is more likely she is afraid of herself, of feeling shame.

Ziggiddy, I agree it seems the fear of your uBPDmom for your scapegoated brother might be some sort of projection. My uBPDmom always projected her inner demons onto me, and then makes me suffer for them.

What your uBPDmom is accusing him of doing to her, she is really doing to him. It's a real mind-flip, and I wish I'd had the tools to see it decades ago.

I think I was in a somewhat similar situation as your scapegoated older brother. I'm also trying to build a better bond with my younger sister. Like you, I'm trying my best not to discuss my sibling with my disordered mother. However, I'm not even sure if that keeps me safe.