BPDxbf - Can their ex or current partner see the crazy?

[pari]

Keep wondering am I the only one labeling him BPD.

Did his ex figure out something was off in the r/s? (they were together for 14 years and I met him when they were falling apart. She is a lovely woman but he painted her black. I know see)

Does his currant partner see the crazy in him? (they have been together for more than 15 months now)

[elessar]

I guess it really depends on an individual case. In most of the stories I have read in last 2 years, the crazyness appeared in a matter of days to a few months. I cant imagine how they can be BPD and maintain calm for a few years. That might just having a few traits rather than a full blown disorder. But I am just guessing right now. I would give a ton a money to read the stories of the exes of a single pwBPD to see how the illness evolved and manifested itself from person to person.

[Blimblam]

elasor ,

the waif or the quiet borderline acts in and may never rage.  Mine never raged.  I saw her dysregulate but in arguments with her dad.  I just thought she was emotional.  She never pulled any of the over the top behavior I typically hear about on the boards. Their were a few arguments at the beginning of devaluation stage.  Most of the manipulation by mine was extremely subtle and began slowly sort of a systematic campaign of destruction for all the resentment she had secretly built up against me.

[MommaBear]

Mine is essentially living with his replacement, after only a few short months.

He acts as if everything is perfect, but he's a chronic liar, so I know the cracks have begun to show. He's more abusive, cruel, dysregulated and all around unplugged from reality than ever before. He's on edge, constantly, dissecting every word I say, overanalysing emails, texts, anything ... .

I would guess she's getting a pretty good glance at how insane he can be, and how badly he needs her for validation. He's painted me black, but that doesn't matter. She's his new source of validation, and while he's still raging at me, that poor girl's got a full time job on her hands. Can't imagine how bad it'll be in the next few months.

And if she's attractive, which I'm sure she is, then chances are he's already freaking out about other men looking at her.

He can tell me that every moment with her is like a honeymoon, and despite my insecurities and his gaslighting, I KNOW his relationship has already begun to fall apart. And so does he. I can practically SMELL the fear on him.

No, I don't believe for a second that she's having an easier time than I did. I left him, after promising for years I wouldn't. I just confirmed that his crazy fears were justified, and so he's probably going to cling to them more now than ever before. I do feel guilty for that, but at the same time, I just couldn't take the abuse one second longer.

[Dutched]

As elessar mentioned, it is guessing.

I certainly don’t want to hurt you, on the contrary (!), it hurts enough already!

Maybe his sensors picked up that you couldn’t fill his needs the way he so desperately needed, longed for.

Now think about YOURSELF in a very POSITIVE way as that says a lot of your personality!    

His current r/s? Honeymoon last 3 up to 15 months in which endorphins are produced by the brain.

Guessing: still honeymoon, current is (as his long lasting previous ones) more “willing” to accept, denying, facilitating, etc.

As it might be of any help at all, it is a disorder, it won’t vanish, so he will repeat himself.  One day... . 


Blimblam

A BPD does not manipulate. A BPD acts from their core, their fear of abandonment, therefore make frantic efforts to justify their behaviour to be seen as worthy enough not to be abandoned, for that love they crave for.

We perceive it as manipulation. That’s why the eggshells are all over the place, alerting us. Alerting us not to loose ourselves.  

[Blimblam]

dutched,

well she certainly was punishing me taking a sadistic pleasure in my pain.

[pari]

Mine is essentially living with his replacement, after only a few short months.

I am sure mine is doing the same. During their initial phase, he kept telling me that he is with her not because he wants to be with her but because he cannot be with me and he doesn't want to be alone. Since I am NC for last 9 months, I practically have no information on what's going on his life.

I couldn't help myself but google him. Found pictures of him with new gf and they looked pretty happy. Good for him. I cannot thank the girl enough to save me and gift me my life back.  If she wasn't there, I probably would have been stuck in the recycling. Probably his ex must be thanking me for the same. Actually I am really happy for her (She is with exBPDbf's best friend, great guy I heard  )

I know that he wasn't healthy for me and it's best that we are apart but it still hurts to see him happy with someone else. Not that I am sad to see him happy but that he is with someone else.  .

[OutOfEgypt]

It is an understandable question, but I think it stems from our fear of being wrong about them and our desire to find some kind of validation.  I think it has to do with this harrowing fear that the problem was actually *us* and *we* lost them.  This is understandable since our r/s with our BPD ex was controlled by this kind of self-doubt. 

But you know how they are.  Even if we aren't talking about BPD, you get to know how a person is (how they relate, how they cope with things, how they act, how they handle things) when you are in a r/s with them.  That is how they are.  That goes hundred-fold for a person who displays BPD behaviors.

I see my ex's current boyfriend joining in when she badmouths me, as if he knows anything, and I think, "You are such a fool."  I hear about how she brags to others about "getting f***ed all day" by her boyfriend, and aside from having it remind me about how childish and shallow she is, I think to myself, "you're living in heaven right now, buddy, but in a blink it begins the turn toward hell."

I see how she is, how she acts... .that kind of thing doesn't just "go away".  So, I'm sure that I am right and, if he lasts long enough, she will turn on him.  It may take months.  It may take years.  And as for now, I get to see how "happy" she is with him.

But ultimately, I need to let this go.  Holding onto it keeps the focus off my life.  Ruminating about it, holding onto it, and essentially waiting with anticipation for when she moves into the punisher phase of the relationship with him, is harmful to my health and healing.  I need to let it go, but there is absolutely one thing that is for certain... .with me, she is a selfish, cruel, responsibility-avoiding, lying, cheating, controlling person.  And I have more than enough evidence to show me that will never change.  I have to keep moving on.

[OutOfEgypt]

well she certainly was punishing me taking a sadistic pleasure in my pain.

Blimblam, during some of my ex's lucid moments, she admitted things like this to me.  She admitted that for years she was punishing me.  One time she told me she felt she "had to" for a certain period of time (7 years, I think she said), to match how long she believes (in her mind) she "tried" in the relationship.  She admitted that she got a sexual kick out of knowing men want her, attracting them, and rejecting them for "her man".  But she explicitly told me that she did things over the years to me just to watch me hurt, just to watch me squirm and suffer.  She got pleasure from my pain, like I deserved it.

And yet she tells everybody I'm "paranoid" and "controlling" for thinking she is capable of mean, spiteful things.  At what point do we stop calling it a "disorder" and just call it "evil"?

[pari]

But ultimately, I need to let this go.  Holding onto it keeps the focus off my life.  Ruminating about it, holding onto it, and essentially waiting with anticipation for when she moves into the punisher phase of the relationship with him, is harmful to my health and healing.  I need to let it go, but there is absolutely one thing that is for certain... .with me, she is a selfish, cruel, responsibility-avoiding, lying, cheating, controlling person.  And I have more than enough evidence to show me that will never change.  I have to keep moving on.

So true OutOfEgypt. I realize it's one of my ways to hold on to him. But I can't help it at the moment. Once and only once did my xBPDbf said to me on phone, 'I don't know why I am so greedy, selfish, insensitive and needy'. I was like   , he knows what he is doing. He is not blind. I don't know what made him say that but I just couldn't believe it was coming out of his mouth.

well she certainly was punishing me taking a sadistic pleasure in my pain.

She admitted that she got a sexual kick out of knowing men want her, attracting them, and rejecting them for "her man". 

Now that you mention this, my ex did something similar. During our honeymoon period, he was in a different country and said was lonely without me. To find company he wanted to go on dating (don't understand why dating was the only way to find company). Infact, one of the date was planned with his ex-coworker before he reached there. He met her, got really intimate with her but then rejected her because she wasn't me. Yeah, you go to a different country, plan to cheat on me and then don't do it because she is not me. I don't understand. 

[elessar]

Pari,

from what I know about my ex, she is obsessed with her appearance - her physical appearance and how people perceive her. she will die before she lets the world see her inner turmoil. and social media is the perfect platform for them to post happy photos just to show the world that they are happy. seeing her smiling in her photos today is painful to me, but I do remember she used to have the same things online even when she was miserable and suicidal.

as @Out of Egypt said, when we see them happy after us, we feel the problem was us, not them. but I do remember how happy photos were in the first few months. heck, i remember the happy photo from last month when i was in an idealization phase. it is just a matter of time before their BPD triggers are hit. and that is my worry today, that maybe with her soon-to-be-husband she wont hit those trigger points. but I tell myself, these photos exist while she still lives under her parents roof. lets wait and watch once she leaves home and has to be responsible for a household. it is easier to have everything you want at your feet and appear happy to the world. i used to let her define the terms of the relationship. but if the knew guy holds his ground and his ideals, lets see how happy she is.

maybe this is just a belief to get some peace, but I know eventually the castle in the sky will come crashing down. it always has. and since the basic reason why it comes crashing down hasn't changed, it will again crash in the future.

how soon their partners see their crazy depends how open they are. if they are still the pathological liars, the new partners will have to wait to see their actions. if they open up the truth about themselves, their partners will see the crazy right now. i mean, would any of us marry someone who was with someone else a few days back, in an on and off relationship for 10 years. if I hear anything like that, I would run saying "you two have so much history, there is no way you are over him in 2 days".

[Mr Hollande]

Can their ex or current partner see the crazy?

The ex most certainly yes. The current most certainly will.

[elessar]

"Once and only once did my xBPDbf said to me on phone, 'I don't know why I am so greedy, selfish, insensitive and needy'. "


Yes, I feel they do realize what is happening at a very deep level. I have a joke that about twice a year my ex says the exact same things I complain about... .about her behavior and her treatment of me. But then poof its gone in a matter of minutes to a couple of days. I guess the shame kills them and they would rather live in their bubble of their perfection than face the fact that they have any flaws.

[OutOfEgypt]

pari,

It won't make sense to us, either.  We can see that they are like that, but it's just crazy to us because (though we certainly have our own flaws) we aren't like that.  And yes, they know what they are doing.  Scary, huh?  They know how they are.  Why do you think they get so defensive all the time when they perceive that someone doesn't like them?  To them, it puts a floodlight on everything they want to hide about themselves yet not stop doing... .and all the shame they carry within.

And yes... .though I wonder if my ex may also be NPD/HPD, she definitely always needs to be stroked and chased.  She's always got one guy in the garbage, another in her bed, and another (or many others) with his eye on her.

[elessar]

pari,

Why do you think they get so defensive all the time when they perceive that someone doesn't like them?  To them, it puts a floodlight on everything they want to hide about themselves yet not stop doing... .and all the shame they carry within.

Completely agree. During our final conversation 5 weeks back I was complimenting her and she was getting defensive - and for the umpteenth time I have told her why do you get defensive about everything and feel like I am always attacking you.

They do see know what they are doing, and they are always on high alert that someone will call them out on it. Thats why they keep their worlds different so that their coworkers dont meet their friends, their friends don't meet her family. Each world knows a different version of them, and when the versions overlap they are left exposed with their lies. They do know, I guess they just can't control themselves.

[Popcorn71]

Mine is essentially living with his replacement, after only a few short months.

During their initial phase, he kept telling me that he is with her not because he wants to be with her but because he cannot be with me and he doesn't want to be alone. Since I am NC for last 9 months, I practically have no information on what's going on his life.

I couldn't help myself but google him. Found pictures of him with new gf and they looked pretty happy. Good for him. I cannot thank the girl enough to save me and gift me my life back.  If she wasn't there, I probably would have been stuck in the recycling. Probably his ex must be thanking me for the same. Actually I am really happy for her (She is with exBPDbf's best friend, great guy I heard  )

I know that he wasn't healthy for me and it's best that we are apart but it still hurts to see him happy with someone else. Not that I am sad to see him happy but that he is with someone else.  .

I could have written this.  It's amazing how similar so many stories are on here.

[seeking balance]

Keep wondering am I the only one labeling him BPD.

Did his ex figure out something was off in the r/s? (they were together for 14 years and I met him when they were falling apart. She is a lovely woman but he painted her black. I know see)

Does his currant partner see the crazy in him? (they have been together for more than 15 months now)

I think we look for meaning in things and these relationships tend to leave us questioning ourselves and our own sanity especially when they move on quickly and it seems good.

The truth is, it was bad for us or we wouldn't be here.  Our dysfunctional relationships were real.  I, for one, was not really great at validating non-rational behavior or emotions - this does not bode well for BPD relationships.

A different relationship will have issues, but they may look very different; I know my ex's new person (was a friend of ours) is a great enabler.  Heck, she helped me carry ex in a couple times when too drunk.  She is probably way more tolerant of that behavior than me and won't fight like I did. 

These questions tend to come up when we are processing emotions - what emotion were you feeling that prompted you to ask?

[myself]

My ex let slip a few times that previous people she had been with found her to be controlling, angry, manipulative, blaming, back and forth, weird, lost, fake, crazy... .I say "let slip" because as she was telling me these things, she saw that I knew what she was describing was taking place with me, too. She then twisted it around so the other person was in the wrong, not her. Changed the subject. Getting overly upset with me. It wasn't just ex-partners, it was friends, family, co-workers, neighbors... .I wonder sometimes if I would have more quickly seen her for who she really is, if I hadn't been looking at her with such love in my eyes. Like I lost focus being so close.

[allinasmile]

My unBPD had 3 ex wives who all filed divorce proceedings and 3 longer term relationships in his 42 years. Hmmm. Once when I ask a deeper question about his reaction to something he defensively ask if I had any conversations with ex wife (mother of his only child) who still hovers.   Mine never initiated the break ups and we had 3 major many many minor. The scary thing is that I had the ability to change the way he acted by my words. I am sorry your wonderful it's all my fault etc.  He would turn in a second. But my gosh it was usually never my behavior that caused the issue but if I claimed it he became this loving person again. It was exhausting and sucked the life out of me. I was also dealing with his adult diagnosed BPD who was raging always. I realized early it was exhausting but since I lived in my own place I thought I could contain the relationship to what I wanted, dating traveling etc. but I couldn't   He would consume me tell me where I could be and with who. Emotionally punish me if I did anything on my own even if it was time we my grand kids and children always taking it personal.  It was the inter twined triggers of he and his daughter that made me finally leave. He never stopped her from putting her pain on me. He wanted to badly for her and I to have a normal relationship. Although she has no  normal relationships and fights with everyone.  Believe me I tried. I was in a no win situation and I also realized she held something over him because she could get him to shut down in a second. Still wonder what dark secrets they harbor.

[pari]

These questions tend to come up when we are processing emotions - what emotion were you feeling that prompted you to ask?

I was probably looking for validation.

He seemed happy with new gf. After looking at their pictures, for a while, I began questioning myself. Why is that she could give him so much happiness but I couldn't? What was I doing wrong? Why isn't he reacting that way (the way he was treating me) towards her? Was all that real?

I also know that it doesn't make sense. It's only good that he is happy and away from me (somebody else's problem). But sometimes mind starts playing games. 

[pieceofme]

Keep wondering am I the only one labeling him BPD.

i wonder the same. my ex doesn't have very many close friends, but he has a lot of friends at a shallow level. he is a bodybuilder and everyone at our gym worships him. on instagram, he has hundreds of followers for his "inspirational" posts  sometimes i think i'm the only one who sees behind the facade.

his ex happens to be his current partner. i have long-suspected this girl to have BPD herself, but i'm not sure if two people with BPD can sustain a relationship? she has acted in such manipulative, cruel and vile ways - to me! she's never even met me. after trying to get my ex fired from his job, called the cops on him twice, faked a pregnancy to break us up, she launched a public smear campaign against me on instagram. (to my horror, i cannot get the account removed.) the "funny" thing is that she posts their texts conversations to prove to me he doesn't want to be with me. he told me the exact same words about her (perhaps even worse), but i never went to rub it in her face. she's also posted his text rants and rages directed at her  i'm not sure what she's trying to prove to me with that, but it does confirm that his BPD is present in their relationship, too.

[pari]

his ex happens to be his current partner.

See that's exactly what I was talking about. I hear many such stories here. If I put myself on the spotlight, after going through all of this with him, I would never ever go back to being with him. How come BPDex's ex get back with them?

I hope to maintain my sanity 

[elessar]

He seemed happy with new gf. After looking at their pictures, for a while, I began questioning myself. Why is that she could give him so much happiness but I couldn't? What was I doing wrong? Why isn't he reacting that way (the way he was treating me) towards her? Was all that real?

Don't worry Pari, photos on the internet mean nothing. I feel the more tortured they are inside, the more they try to show a happier face on social media. And it could also be the NPD part of BPD where they want that adulation to show look how perfect my life is.

And if we all remember our own stories, we all do remember the honeymoon phases. Wasn't it amazing? Did anyone else understand us like our ex did? Then... .it starts going downhill.

I completely understand your concern. I am asking myself was it me... .am I incapable of being in a relationship. They bring self-doubt to us because they blame us. But know that deep down it is not you, it is him. It might feel unfair if his new honeymoon lasts longer than his honeymoon with you, and we can't control that. But one day that honeymoon will end. And when it does, the longer the honeymoon... .the worse that other girl will feel because even more of her time would have been wasted with him.

[FindingWings]

I'm with ':)utched' in that I have accepted that my ex is constantly acting out of fear and desperation and not some sort of sinister need to punish or manipulate me. As I had said to another member, every single time I believe I've had a meaningful conversation with my ex, within 2-24 hours she has dissected and restructured the conversation to align with her reality.

I could do singing telegrams, send a messenger on a pony, etc. It wouldn't make a nickels worth of difference. She is acting out of a need to feel 'completed,' in her own dysfunctional way. Attempting to make sense of this or lead her/him into the light is just an exercise in futility. Period.

''I can walk outside, lie down on my driveway and bang my head into the cement for as long as I wish. And when I stop? It feels pretty good.''

Good luck... .

[seeking balance]

These questions tend to come up when we are processing emotions - what emotion were you feeling that prompted you to ask?

I was probably looking for validation.

yes, probably

It is good to identify these emotions so we can soothe them in a different way.  Most of us tended to have our own self worth issues prior to the relationship (I know I did, didn't know it was that deep).  When they move on so quickly it really pushes that core insecurity.

You do matter, you are enough - his disorder is not about you.

Peace,

SB

[Loveofhislife]

Maybe we perceive and believe differently; our experiences while similar are individual. I'm not going to believe for a second that exbfBPD didn't knowingly and deliberately manipulate me. Especially toward the discard. He knew for weeks that he was going to dump me on August 1. I felt the barometer dropping. He had been married

4 times: twice to the same person (poor thing). He had her name tattooed on his arm to prove his commitment and undying effection the second time around with her. That was after he had suddenly abandoned her and their two young sons for a woman he met at work, who he left in a matter of months to remarry the mother of his two boys. Anyway, do his exes know? They may not clinically know BPD but certainly know evil. I look at it as driven by NEED: whatever is their need at any given moment. I have professionally worked with severely mentally ill people who were quite capable of making choices.

I don't buy into the he didn't know or didn't mean to or couldn't help it. He CHOSE to pursue his NEED no matter to whose detriment, and ALL of his victims know it!