What does recycle look like... confused

[LostGhost]

Hello everyone,

Just had a quick question that I will preface with an update on my situation.

No contact was finally broken seemingly out of nowhere but in a small way. We work together but our paths didn't cross over the last two months. I sent a humorous email out to my team and she was included. I unexpectedly received a reply from her maybe 5 days after the fact which seemed strange. Since then, we've emailed one another quite a bit - only at work. But the emails are lighthearted, energetic, upbeat and overall positive/friendly.

I guess I'm confused because from everything I've read, you're either painted white or painted black. There is no grey. So if she's willing to email me back and forth like this after 2 months of silence, what does that represent? Is she feeding off of some sort of supply I'm offering? As far as I know she's still dating her ex unless something happened there I'm unaware of. I don't feel like I'm painted white. I remember what that felt like and this isn't it from my perspective at least. But if I was still painted black there'd be nothing but that painful silence I remember all too well.

Contact with her of any type leaves me feeling euphoric for hours or even a day at a time. If I don't hear from her I start feeling drained like I'm running out of fuel. I am so active and busy (distracted) that I have no hours in my day where I'm sitting around doing nothing... .I've succeeded at numbing the pain or blocking most of it somehow... .but in the hours between contact I'm most definitely anticipating and hoping for the next email like a desperate addict.

There's been no talk whatsoever of the relationship, what happened, what our future might look like. No talk of meeting up or anything like that. Just funny emails back and forth, maybe a dozen or so a day. It's as if we're both pretending we have no recollection or memory of the other person, as if we're just two people getting to know each other.

So what does a recycle look like in your opinion? They kick down your door aggressively and demand a relationship? They do it covertly? They wait for you to make the suggestion or ask them out again? Is she keeping me as a friend just in case she needs to use me later down the road? So many questions just from a series of emails... .leaves my head spinning

Thanks for any guidance. I realize I'm setting myself up for pain by communicating but my curious nature compels me to explore this further.

Mostly confused about the black/white. I should in theory still be painted black unless my humorous team email actually made her laugh and feel something positive enough about me to instantly convert me to white? It must be more complex than this... .

[Blimblam]

you are painted white.

being painted white is different from the idealization phase.  Also if she still has a bf you can be sure he is getting treated like crap right now or he is not being idealized any longer.  I bet it feels good.  Be carefull you risk really getting hurt and you sound to busy in yourlife for a melt down.

blim

[patientandclear]

I was you LostGhost. I resumed a friendship with my ex (though in my case after 10 months of NC till I felt I could manage not being his partner, since I had some requirements about that and he never chose to address those).

When we started out it was like you are experiencing--NO acknowledgement of what had gone before. That was my way of showing we didn't need to rehash, this was about going forward. I thought I knew a lot about BPD and that it would go better with that knowledge. I'm sure he was thrilled I was willing to proceed without a big post hoc review of the demise of our love affair.

I thought my ex was in the same place as me. He was pretty intense about the reconnection. Wanted to meet up, shared a lot of deep stuff with me about where he was in his thinking about life. (I realize this is not quite what you're experiencing with the light and happy emails but for us I think it was equivalent--he loved to talk about such things with me, it was like our "light" I guess.)

So yeah, I thought it was meaningful and significant. It was to me. But he was a lot more unique in my life than I am in his, if that makes sense. He has many women he keeps in this sort of contact with at all times. I didn't see that then. I was a valued new addition to the stable.

We got closer and closer. But when it came down to it (he made some choices that hurt me, I said so, he acted like I had no right to discuss that because I should have had no expectations of him), he was just passing the time with me at this point. Given how much deeper our r/ship seemed to get during this period (he wasn't dating anyone, for the first time in his adult life; we practiced havig differences and appreciating them) ... .I was shocked to find that none of that added up to more in his mind than a position in his collection of exes.

So I agree, be cautious, and don't read bigger things into this. It is enjoyable for her to know you'll still engage with her and don't hate her. That's about all you know now.

[Trent]

They kick down your door aggressively and demand a relationship? They do it covertly? They wait for you to make the suggestion or ask them out again? Is she keeping me as a friend just in case she needs to use me later down the road?

Yes!    She wants to occupy space in your head (and is succeeding), but why?  Could be any of the above.  Maybe she's feeling engulfed in her current r/s, and needs you to soothe that feeling.  Maybe she needs an ego boost.  Maybe her bf got smart and ran far, far away; now that she's lonely, you'll do just fine until she moves on to her next savior/victim.

When my ex made any kind of contact after a breakup, I eventually learned that it was her wanting to get back together.  The conversation could usually be boiled down to this:

(... .a few weeks NC... .)  

Her:  Something irrelevant, blah blah blah

Me:  Cool.  Let's hang out.  (makeup sex is implied)

Her:  Great!  I love you!

And now that I'm back posting cynical messages on the leaving board, you can probably figure out how that ended up for me  

Based on the tone of your message, it sounds like you want to recycle.  If you reach out, just recognize that she might reject you if she just wants an ego boost.  Which, ultimately, she'd be doing you a favor.  Or she might not reject you, and the recycle begins.  If this is indeed what you want, you might want to visit the 'staying' board for tips on how to manage the r/s.  Otherwise, cut off contact completely  and ask yourself why you're thriving on this drama, and whether or not this person is good or bad for your life.

Good luck!

[Tincup]

I agree with Trent.  Any contact post break up with my ex was her wanting to get back together.  It started as something innocent on her part to see what my reaction would be, and was followed shortly with something very intimate again to see what my reaction would be.  EACH time we recycled though she made it seem like it was my idea, and she would act like she wasn't sure if we should get back.  This would make me chase her more. 

This time I have ignored all her attempts and they are finally starting to be fewer attempts after 9 months (even the "restricted" calls to my home phone are going down).

[myself]

No contact was finally broken seemingly out of nowhere

Perhaps she felt she had an opening and went for it? It could be a mix of things.

the emails are lighthearted, energetic, upbeat and overall positive/friendly.

"See, I'm not such a bad person, am I?" ("Pay no attention to what's behind the curtain... ."

I guess I'm confused because from everything I've read, you're either painted white or painted black. There is no grey... .I don't feel like I'm painted white. I remember what that felt like and this isn't it from my perspective at least. But if I was still painted black there'd be nothing but that painful silence I remember all too well.

Go to a paint store. There are many shades of white that are not grey. I've also experienced being painted black, but not as much as someone else, so there are degrees of each extreme.

Contact with her of any type leaves me feeling euphoric for hours or even a day at a time. If I don't hear from her I start feeling drained like I'm running out of fuel... .I've succeeded at numbing the pain or blocking most of it somehow... .but in the hours between contact I'm most definitely anticipating and hoping for the next email like a desperate addict.

This says a lot. As if those 'light' emails are darker than they seem. How are you going to feel when her mood/perspective flips again and she rages/withdraws (enter Her Pattern here)? Still 'addicted'?

There's been no talk whatsoever of the relationship, what happened, what our future might look like. No talk of meeting up or anything like that. Just funny emails back and forth, maybe a dozen or so a day. It's as if we're both pretending we have no recollection or memory of the other person, as if we're just two people getting to know each other.

No talk because there's no r/s to speak of, or because you don't want to rock the boat and scare her away now that you're getting your 'supply' from her, too? Are you being real with each other or are you wearing masks? Are you hoping this leads to something better/deeper with her in the future, or just helping sweep the past beneath the rug, keeping it on the surface? How do you feel while doing so?

So many questions just from a series of emails... .leaves my head spinning... .I realize I'm setting myself up for pain by communicating but my curious nature compels me to explore this further.

Again, it doesn't sound 'light'. More like it's stirring things up again for you, pushing and pulling you off your balance. I was curious, too, and kept going back. Wanted to make sure I'd done what I could, understood it for what it was, and to see if she was going to really be able to be with me or not. At a certain point, you'll decide how much further you want to go with communicating with her like this, or if at all. It may well be when the pain you set yourself up for has arrived. But it won't be as bad this time around because you already saw it coming, right? Or do you need to be more careful than that, making sure you (and her) do not get hurt again? I miss laughing with my ex, too. But not the extra pain.

[eniale]

BPD's like to keep you on the shelf -- "just in case."  My ex=BPD bragged "I can't be such a bad person, look at all the ex-girl friends who I'm still in touch with."  He tried to reconnect, even asked me if I would be his "best friend" (he already had a new girlfriend.)  Never mind that I expect my friends, not just a SO, to have character traits such as honesty, trustworthiness,  and being honorable, traits he does not possess.  I strung him along for a few easy/breezy emails, then hit him with something I had not yet gotten off my chest.  I knew he would not reply, and he didn't... .for 4 months.  Then sent another email.  I did not reply.  Then 4 mos. later, another email; again, I did not reply.  He kept this up for a year after we broke up.  Now 17 mos. of NC and I hardly ever think of him.  But I was devastated, and a mess, for about the first 3 mos.  There is life (and sanity) after a BPD.  If I were you, I would stop the emails.  They are feeding her ego.  No need to figure out the how or why of it.  Would recommend you do yourself a big favor and go NC.  Good luck.

[LostGhost]

The struggle is just unfashionable to be honest. I keep trying to force myself to remember the situation I'm in and how I came to be here.  I try to listen to what my therapist advises. I tell myself to just look at the history that can be found on this site, the awful stories and the broken dreams. It seems without a doubt that continuing contact of any kind is a road that leads only to disaster. But then some part of me says... .but there's a staying board, there's "success stories" - even if they might not represent healthy relationships, they're still relationships that must feel better than the empty bed I'm sleeping in and the empty dinner table I eat at.

First, thank you all for your replies. There's a lot of information here.

Blimblam - it seems I must be painted white then. I think my confusion came from forgetting there was idealization when our relationship started which is I guess the equivalent if being painted white x100. While being white feels good... .it definitely feels different than idealization. There's a lot of people she paints white on a daily basis, so I really shouldn't feel too special about it. Idealization will never return, so I will never feel like "the one" again, correct? Being painted white doesn't have a significant meaning to it other than she doesn't hate me at the current moment? But reading some of the other info posted here sounds like they only paint their exes white again if they're intending to recycle?

Patientandclear - Thank you. I definitely see the similarities in our stories. I will try my best to proceed with caution, though I know I am seeking a recycle which will more than likely lead me in a circle back to why I came to these boards in the first place.

Trent/Tincup - It sounds like if I did want to recycle, it's up to me to make the next move? These lighthearted emails cannot go on forever. Eventually one of us will make the... ."Hey let's hang out" statement? If I don't take it to the next level, will she just think I'm thick in the head or not getting the message? Is there a certain timing to this where I need to seize an opportunity at an exact moment? Too soon and she will think I had the wrong idea. Too late and she's moved on to a different supply. There's been no mention of meeting up or hanging out. It's what I would describe as "friends". Though I did hesitate for about 5 minutes before sending a flirtatious email complimenting her outfit and she reciprocated complimenting mine. I probably over analyze things way too much.

Myself - You pose questions that I have often asked myself. Why am I the way I am. Why am I doing this. This seems to be more about myself and what I need or feel I require to exist with meaning and purpose. All false ideas and notions, but real to me. I'm definitely avoiding talking about the r/ams with her because yes, I don't want to rock the boat. I feel we are both wearing masks for sure. Almost playing a game of chess, anticipating the next move if that makes sense. I know I certainly am. I carefully construct each email asking repeatedly questions like "How will she take this word or this phrase? With all I know about BPD, I have to be careful what I say so I don't trigger her". It's time consuming. Walking in a minefield essentially. I agree - I am assisting in sweeping the past under the rug. I can't say I feel awesome about what I am doing. But I feel better than where I was during silent treatment if that makes sense.

I should mention we actually bumped into each other in person in a dark hallway heading in opposite directions. I was just rounding the corner and caught her out of the corner of my eye. It was like I could "sense" her presence and knew it was going to be her before I even saw her. I intended to just keep going. But she said "Hi". I turned around and there she was. Different clothes, different hair. But I know despite all of my "moving forward" and "keeping busy focusing on myself", I am still attracted and drawn to her. I'd be lying if I said I'd moved on. I dream about this woman every night. She stared at me sort of blankly but with that little smile of hers, like some sort of cybernetic organism scanning me or trying to read me.

Fortunately I did maintain my composure and confidence, I was looking my best, made small talk, steered the conversation and went back to my office. That's when these emails picked up a bit. They're one for one emails though... .so neither person is acting overly desperate here. It's very controlled. Don't know if any of you have read the thread about how they seem to like using lots of exclamation marks in their emails but she's back to doing that with me again! Something I fully admit to missing... .just one of her quirks I liked.

I'm also questioning... .if contact like this is happening at work, why not elsewhere? I've thought of the obvious... .she's in a relationship. But despite that, no emails or texts or anything outside of work? Leads me to believe maybe this isn't a recycle. Maybe nothing more than her trying to be friends at work? Is that possible with BPD or is there always an agenda?

You're all far wiser than I am. I feel I am standing at the edge of the precipice about to make a life altering decision. About to jump from a roof with good people telling me "No, don't do it!". Loading a bullet in the chamber and about to play a game of Russian roulette with myself. I see the consequences because a lot of you are living examples of why this is all just a fairy tale. There is no "maybe this time will be... ."

And yet... .I still desire it? How is that logical? Am I even human any more to knowingly immolate myself in the searing fires of pain I'm about to bring on?

Looking around though I see I'm not alone. It looks like the majority of you also yearned for a recycle, got your wish and got burned and walk around with the scars to prove it. In my situation you would go NC. What would you do in your present circumstances if your ex came around pouring on the white paint again?

[enlighten me]

Both my exs stay in contact with exs of theirs. I found this strange at the time but now I understand it after finding out about BPD.

All their exs provided them with a fix in some ways. The exs that are still infatuated with them who I thought of as sad little puppys following in the hope of scraps are just there to give them that quick boost and also so my exs can say "Im not a bad person because if I was why are so many of my exs my friends"

We are dealing with people who cannot face up to the fact that they need fixing. They are constantly in search of the happy life that they want. Unfortunately this is a childish fantasy. The happy ever after fairytale ending that they perceive as what love is. It always seemed to me that my exs believed these fairytales and movies. Unfortunately when the movie ends and they head of into the sunset together they never show the years of normal life after it.

I think this kind of thinking is why the relationship always seems to end. They haven't walked off into the sunset to live happy ever after so you cant be the one.

That said theyre not fully convinced that your not the one so keep you to hand just in case you were.

[Vexed]

Probably just having issues with the current guy, that's when mine contacts me.  She needs some admiration, pulls out an old toy from the toy box and plays around with it.  My ex always eludes to the fact she is unhappy with whoever x guy is, I never ask about her r/s.  Then she will always put words in my mouth (the ones she wants me to say).  Like "oh I'm not saying I want to get back together",  really cause either did I.  Then shell ask me to list things I liked about her,  etc.  Which I try hard to divert from.  Last time we talked she said "you really are good at acting indifferent" which reminds me how smart and cognitive she is about what she's doing even though she never reveals her feelings. 

[Trent]

they're still relationships that must feel better than the empty bed I'm sleeping in and the empty dinner table I eat at.

Are you truly willing to accept a toxic, dysfunctional relationship/life in order to avoid being alone?  :)eep down, do you believe that this is the best you can do?  There are 7 billion people in the world, roughly 3.5 billion women.  And this is the one in 3.5 billion you want to hitch your wagon to?  Plus, once the BPD r/s gets bad enough, you'll be happy eat and sleep alone.  Having been though it myself, I understand the need to continue to recycle until I was able to be satisfied with myself that I did everything I possibly could.  The disorder still won.

Idealization will never return, so I will never feel like "the one" again, correct?

In my experience, i was idealized after each recycle.  I was "the one" once again.  And when she told me these things, my response was usually "well duh! so stop fking up the relationship!", to which she'd reply "I will I'm sorry!".  And then a few weeks later she'd dysregulate and make it impossible for us to continue.  

though I know I am seeking a recycle which will more than likely lead me in a circle back to why I came to these boards in the first place.

 

Trent/Tincup - It sounds like if I did want to recycle, it's up to me to make the next move?

I'd love to lie to you and tell you she's just being polite and to not contact her ever again, but there's probably more to it on her end.  Sounds like you've already gotten the green light from her, so press forward if that is what you choose.  But I highly recommend against it.  Take the time to heal yourself and eventually move forward with a healthy person.

I am still attracted and drawn to her.

Many of us are; I certainly am.  But this is the conflict these people create between the body and the mind.  I no longer allow my body to decide which direction I'm going in with my ex.  And my body continues to rage against my mind, but my mind will not break this time.  Now I'm 3.5 months NC  

I'm also questioning... .if contact like this is happening at work, why not elsewhere? Is that possible with BPD or is there always an agenda?

 Contact is probably not happening outside of work because she's waiting on you to initiate.  These people are master manipulators, and they usually know exactly what they are doing, especially when it comes to securing supply.  She may not want to risk rejection, and if you two got back together again it would have been your idea.  Or you could just be a pawn in her game with her current bf... .things could be getting too intimate and she needs a third person for triangulation.

You're all far wiser than I am. I feel I am standing at the edge of the precipice about to make a life altering decision. About to jump from a roof with good people telling me "No, don't do it!". Loading a bullet in the chamber and about to play a game of Russian roulette with myself. I see the consequences because a lot of you are living examples of why this is all just a fairy tale. There is no "maybe this time will be... ."

STAY AWAY.  Not only are you playing Russian roulette, you're playing it with a magazine-fed weapon.  Instead, put down the gun and take a long, hard look in the mirror.

And yet... .I still desire it? How is that logical? Am I even human any more to knowingly immolate myself in the searing fires of pain I'm about to bring on?  Looking around though I see I'm not alone. It looks like the majority of you also yearned for a recycle, got your wish and got burned and walk around with the scars to prove it. In my situation you would go NC.

It's not logical.  Again, this is the conflict between the body and the mind.  You may need to recycle a couple more times before you can convince yourself to just stay away permanently.  We've all been there, and we understand what you feel and what you're going through.

What would you do in your present circumstances if your ex came around pouring on the white paint again?

That's exactly the trouble, and that's how many of us get recycled.  They come around with their white paint brush and try to cover up all the ___ they just got done spreading around just a few short days/weeks/months ago.  And because of our false beliefs/emotional blindness/FOO issues ( https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality ) we happily jump back on the merry go round, only to be thrown off again and again.  But recovery doesn't begin until we decide to stop riding that merry go round.  This is where NC comes in.  Just recognize that you're not strong enough to resist right now, and you need some space to decide what you need to do and gain some perspective.  And grant yourself that space by not communicating with her, so you can begin to step out of the FOG and reassess where you want to be.  It begins with NC.

final thoughts:  if you're going to recycle, PROTECT YOURSELF.  No pregnancies, financial comingling, and since you work together, nothing that can be later used by her to get you fired.  BPDs can portray themselves as sweet little innocent things, that is, until they get mad.  All she has to do is witness you talking to a female co-worker, and she might convince herself that you're really cheating on her (the fact that you aren't is irrelevant) and in return you deserve to be fired and cheated on for good measure.  Give her zero ammunition.  ZERO.  Even then, she can make life very uncomfortable.  When I called the cops on mine, she lied about me cheating, giving her a STD, and stealing her money (all lies, but she needed to play the victim to spite me).  Again, we're dealing with master manipulators here, so if you value your job, STAY AWAY.  

With whatever you decide, good luck!  

[LostGhost]

Thank you for your in depth responses. Lots of information to consider. I just realized I've been posting this in the leaving board so I apologize if I offended anyone as I'm clearly on the undecided.

I have a great difficulty moving forward because I suppose I haven't experienced the same situation as many of you. Although I was hurt and abandoned, dealt with a few months of hot/cold treatment, and her leaving to be with her ex... .I didn't experience that mean spirited demeanour or personal attacks or animosity or raging. So in my mind I'm stuck perceiving her as a hurt little girl who is tremendously confused about who she is and what she needs or wants. That may all be an act, I really do not know. But I know I am enamoured with her and can't seem to disconnect. Yes my body is attracted to her but I also feel a gravitational pull through my mind and spirit as well. I am irrevocably drawn to her. I imagine only when she has delivered a killing blow of pain to me will I be able to come to my senses and be free. I was definitely becoming stronger but when I saw her face to face, even did those few minutes, it was like falling in love all over again. Difficult to explain and even harder to talk sense to myself.

I suppose at the end of the day I am convinced I need to recycle or be recycled I should say. I just don't understand the mechanism behind that. Apart from these friendly work emails, what then is the next step? I wait for her to mention something or take it in a different direction? Or do I just email and say "Hey I was wondering if you wanted to meet up on a day off and we can go here and do xxxx".  I'm scared if it's too soon, I'll push her away. I don't even know if she's single (chances are no... .they can't be alone can they?). But if I just keep sending friendly emails back and forth, I won't get anywhere with that.

My therapist said something along the lines of "If you approach at just the right time under just the right circumstances, she may be open to it. If it's not the exact right time you will be back where you started with silent treatment. And even if she does paint you white for a while, you will be painted black again too, mark my words."

I think I'm broken. I signed up on a few dating websites and I'm just shutdown. I flip through pages and pages of "attractive" females and I just feel nothing. Just meh. I think if her for two seconds and systems are go. 

[SWLSR]

My friend what is happening is u r being sized up by her.  she is trying to see where she can fit u into her life.  My best advice is to heal urself from this experience and if you still want her then give it a try but not before that

[Trent]

Although I was hurt and abandoned, dealt with a few months of hot/cold treatment, and her leaving to be with her ex

This is emotional abuse.  You've been abused.  And you've been abused badly enough, and dealt with enough of her issues, to find your way to this site in search of answers.  And if you get back with this woman, after the way she treated you, you're just giving her a green light to abuse you even more.

So in my mind I'm stuck perceiving her as a hurt little girl who is tremendously confused about who she is and what she needs or wants. That may all be an act, I really do not know.

It's probably not an act.  And she will probably be this way the rest of her life.  And you're probably thinking "well if I just love and support her enough, if I just try a little harder, she'll eventually come around and everything will be great like it was in the beginning".  Well, I've got news for you:  they don't come around!  In fact, she could very well get worse. 

I suppose at the end of the day I am convinced I need to recycle or be recycled I should say.

Fair enough.  Like I said in my last post, please protect yourself.

Apart from these friendly work emails, what then is the next step?... .My therapist said something along the lines of "If you approach at just the right time under just the right circumstances, she may be open to it. If it's not the exact right time you will be back where you started with silent treatment. 

I don't know if you need to time this with 100% perfection as is implied.  Odds are that she's secretly hoping you'll contact her and escalate.  I wouldn't do email; I'd probably just send her a text, something along these lines:

You:  Hey

Her:  Hey

You:  I was just thinking of you.  [Something funny, maybe from the r/s with her]

Her:  [positive response]

You:  I miss laughing with you.  We should hang out soon

Her:  [Something in the affirmative]

You:  Cool.  [Logistic details:  I'll pick you up at X on X... .meet me at X... .etc]

Her:  [Something in the affirmative]

If she's interested, she'll make it very easy for you two to get together.  But be prepared for a negative response as well if she's just looking for the ego boost.  Otherwise, go out, have a good time, and keep it light.

And even if she does paint you white for a while, you will be painted black again too, mark my words

Yes, absolutely!

I think I'm broken. I signed up on a few dating websites and I'm just shutdown.

This is a normal -- and temporary -- feeling.  You haven't yet recovered from the trauma, and you're still hooked on this woman.  It takes time bro.  Don't force yourself out there before you are ready, but you don't want to constantly ruminate about this woman either.  NC is the way out.  Focus on yourself, your work, and spending quality time with your therapist.  Reengaging with your BPD ex will only delay your recovery and dig your hole deeper.  But I understand the need to reengage.  Just make sure you go in with yourself protected and eyes wide open.  If you do get back together with her, you might want to visit the 'staying' board for tips on how to give yourself the best chance of success.  Take care