Can My Mom Let Her Grandchildren Be Themselves?

[Turkish]

My T called me out on it several times during our sessions, in that I fell back to humor when talking about something serious. Sure, I made him laugh, but I also sensed it frustrated him a little (perhaps I did it on purpose sometimes  

I took S4 and D2 to visit my friends this weekend. I invited my mom to come spend time with us, and we went out to dinner later. The kids love to pretend they are "zombies." I have trained them to attack upon command. They were pulling their eyebrows up and trying to scare my mom. They aren't mean; they are funny and laughing. My mom was clucking and huffing, implying that they were weird and it was inappropriate for children to be acting like that. She used to say to me sometimes, "You are an odd child, Turkish." She wasn't mean to me or the kids, but I thought,"loosen up, mom!"

I was a little amused that my mom was reacting like this to her grandchildren, who are nothing but irreverent (of course I encourage it).

I think back to how my mom tried to interact with my uBPDx, projecting her need to rescue a waif. I can't remember if I ever told my mom that that dynamic wouldn't fly, since my uBPDx has a mother already. My mom has taken a number of adult waifs under her wing over the years, but they were all adults with either no mothers, or had almost no relationships with them, so of course my mom became Replacement Mother. How this relates to  BPD, I think, it a bit of objectification: expecting people to be the role that is constructed in someone's mind, rather than accepting people for who they are. It's focus on Self, rather than the Other.

[P.F.Change]

Is this about your mother being a rescuer, or your using humor as a defense mechanism?   What do you want to work on in this thread?

[Turkish]

I guess I was triggered. My mom threw out a waif comment after dinner as we were saying our goodbyes, "at least the kids remembered me this time." I let it go. She never raised babies, and D2 is less than a month short of when my mom adopted me. D2 is walking and talking like a real little girl every day. She didn't experience how babies attach.

When my mom got me, she said that my speech and enunciation was perfect. She was surprised. My mom adopted me when I was 2.4 years old. I always felt like an old soul. When I was an early teen, grownups loved to converse with me, especially women. Going from home (attachment) to home, was I auto parentified? Perhaps that's stuff for PI.

I know I'm avoidant, and I brought that dysfunctional style to my r/s with the kids' mom. It's the constant emotional care taking that gets to me. It's easier to   in my head than to possibly trigger my mom into crying or running. And yes, I realize that I still feel responsible for her emotions. Perhaps there is some FOG in wanting her to have a r/s (a positive one) with her grandchildren. Yet I also want to protect them from Waifish behaviors. So I have her, and also the kids' mom to worry about.

[Harri]

Hi Turkish.  I have been letting your post roll around in my head a bit.  As you know, since you called me on it, I resort to humor as both a defense mechanism and as a coping skill.  Okay, who am I kidding:  it is mostly a defense so people can't tell how hurt or damaged I think I am.  I can also relate to having a mom who would rescue people.  Instead of waif's I used to call them her strays.  Waif is a better fit though.  A couple of them ended up being good family friends even though they were quite eccentric.  One of them sexually abused me and I know my mother was aware of it.   

So anyway, while I was thinking about this I kept feeling like there is a link between the humor and the rescuing behaviors and I think it is the fact that one of the things that hurts the most about seeing my mother as a rescuer is that by taking them in she 1) allowed me to be used as a sex object by one of them and 2) while her nurturing abilities were quite good, even excellent, with the waifs, she still managed to fail miserably with her own kids.  It hurts to look back and realize that she could be a good mother to total strangers but a beast with her own kids.  The hurt of those two things is so cutting and so painful that I feel really want to make a joke or post a smiley right here --->  ______  and make light of things because they are hard to write and, projecting a bit here, I assume are hard to hear or read about and they will definitely be seen as red flags and no one will want me and blah blah blah, on goes the endless discourse in my head. 

So for me, the humor and rescuing are directly connected to each other in a weird squiggly way but connected all the same.  I can also see my rescuing tendencies where I want to protect those hearing about 'bad things' and assigning hurt where it may or may not exist, but oh boy! I am going to jump right in and make it easy and all better for everyone.   

Thanks for the thread as it gave me some more insight into my own stuff.  I laughed when you said you have your kids trained to be zombies on command!  I would love to see that.  I think that is awesome that you let them be and are teaching them how to have fun and laugh.  I can understand not wanting to tell your mom to lighten up in front of the kids.  I think it is right to keep quiet about it when they are so young.  I do not have kids, but I imagine it is important to teach them how to respond to people who are left of center (aka fruit loops <--- is that allowed?) and the best way to do that is by exposing them to all types of people (keeping careful watch of course) and demonstrating good boundaries and ways of interacting with people.  It sounds to me like you are doing that. 

Anyway, I totally took your post and made it all about me.  Have you figured out why you connected the two things in your first post?  I would be curious to read what you found. 

[Ziggiddy]

Turkish I am sorry you were triggered by your mother's remark. Are you able to picture her as a kid herself saying such a thing? I know when my mother does this "Oh well I suppose I am useless now that I can't do (xyz) for you" I picture her as that purple haired Mrs Slocombe from that TV show and realise how scripted and attention seeking it is.

Oh btw LAUGHED OUT LOUD that you have the kids trained to attack.

SO what if you use humour as a defense mechanism? It's better than setting your kids on someone haha. See what I did there?

Seriously, if you're using it to shield yourself from hurt then it's not productive but laughter is such a healthy useful thing. if it makes YOU laugh then maybe it's just an adjustment and not a jarring if you know what I mean? I love humour and I am grateful for it every single damned day I have to deal with my disease and disorder ridden families.

Laughter is a great medicine. So is forgiving yourself. respond to the kids 'attacks' and ignore mom. She is not fun to play with. She can frown and disapprove from over there.

Your choice of course, though!

Zed

PS maybe the real question is - can you let Mom be herself?

[Turkish]

Harri- I'm sorry as hell that happened to you. The one person who was supposed to didn't. I think you implying that humor is a mask for pain. Perhaps it is in a lot of cases. Or maybe in making others laugh, it gives us something in return. Validation that we are heard? If it's not insanely bitter or dark, maybe we feel better about ourselves by eliciting smiles and laughter in others. So it may not always be a coping mechansim... .or maybe it is. I never nailed down with my T why I would often resort to humor during our sessions. I was entertained that he was entertained. I should accept that it is just my way. My kids are insanely funny, without the baggage. I hope to keep it that way. I hope I gave them one of the best parts about myself.

Perhaps the trigger was shame. I'm me, and should not be ashamed of it. Not be ashamed that I am encouragine irreverence in our household. The kids entertain me, too. I had D2 demonstrate "zombie eyes" to her godmother today. She hadn't seen it yet. She's young, 23, and thought it was hilarious.

As for my mom, Zed  (I think of the character from Pulp Fiction every time you sign off like that), I try to accept her for who she is. She gave me a creepy baby doll for D2 (you know, the ones with "dead eyes" which you set on a shelf and swear that they change positions from day to day by themselves... .I have S4 calling it creepy baby, too). The doll didn't smell that badly, but the old reference Bible from the 60s, while in good shape, smells like her house: mildew and stale smoke, with a bouquet of dog and cat pee. I left the stuff in a bag when I got home. Even sitting in the back of my hatch, the aroma wafted into the cabin. She lives like this, immersed in the mess of hoarding. That will never change, which is why I don't want to move her here. She turns 73 early next year. I think she only has 2-3 years where she can realistically "survive" in the mountains in snow country. She has no heat, and it can get into the 20F range inside her house in the coldest weeks. I got her an electric blanket last winter (her dogs chewed the last one. I guess this year, it may be another electric blanket and space heater. At least it gets her room (my old room) up into the 30s, which is survivable. I don't know if I feel sorrier for her or her Chihuahuas.

I have my babies and their mom to worry about, yet I feel like my mom is the albatross around my neck which increases in weight year after year. The problem with that allusion is that the guy in the poem did something wrong and was punished for it. I don't think I've done anything wrong.