Watching my SO doing the BPD Shuffle with his ex-wife

[hard2say]

I am posting a few simple statements here, in the hopes of getting some kind of feedback or support. Anything.

I have been involved romantically with a man who's ex-wife is BPD. They separated almost two years ago, and the divorce was final about 4 months ago or so. I have been involved with him for about six months.

They are involved in a conflict right now over their original custody arrangement, which was a bird nesting agreement, whereby he would go back into the marital home to have his 50% custody time with his kids. When we became serious, he served her papers stating that he wanted to change the terms to regular shared custody out of the house. She only objected verbally to him for 3 months and then served him papers refusing to comply, so he is now back in their home 5 days a week, with his kids, and is legally obligated to comply with this until they schedule a parent counselor meeting, for which she is not signing... .and not signing... .the necessary paper. She is fully aware of his outrage at this situation, as well as the fact that he is seriously involved in a new relationship, and that the bird nesting arrangement is just not sustainable, in terms of us being able to evolve normally in our relationship.

I'm watching him walk on eggshells with her, by email, on the phone, by text. I know he is enraged, and yet I am helplessly watching his efforts to placate her, calm her down, reason with her, "be careful" with her, etc. My frustration and anger at witnessing his obvious enmeshment is taking a terrible toll on our relationship and really is, in fact, wrecking it--which I am sure would delight her no end.

I am taking a step back from the entire situation, because my own anger has reached a really toxic level. I understand that I cannot do anything to change this situation. I can only change myself.

I am just so profoundly disgusted and furious at her manipulation and control, and the destruction it has caused to my own hopes and dreams... .and I am beside myself with frustration at my SO's ongoing effort to caretake her which, under the circumstances, is outrageous --and by his obvious fear of her. While they do their dysfunctional BPD shuffle, my dreams of a life with him are going up in smoke.

Thanks for reading this. It helps just to come here and say it.

[Panda39]

Hi Hard2Say,

I have soo been where you are.  For me as time has passed and my SO and I  have learned more about each other, about BPD, and the effects his uBPDex have on us as a couple and as individuals. We have learned to be good communicators and patient with each other. 

And I can totally relate to the anger... .95% directed at the ex but sometimes it can be directed to my SO too.

I met my SO when he was separated 4 months. He was honest about himself and his relationship with his wife but that early on I didn't really understand the true nature of things.

When I first met him, he and his stbex were engaged in the dance they had been doing for years... .her lying, manipulating, and harrassing him and he was trying to rationalize with her (we know how effective that can be  ) or work around her or accommodate her. 

I thought why can't he just say NO to things... .he needed boundries.  In his defense though,  he had a lot of bad advice from attorneys that did not help in his high conflict divorce. 

We didn't know about BPD back then so to me nothing made sense... .why wouldn't she get her daughter with a toothache to the dentist?  Why didn't she live in a place she could afford?  Why couldn't she drive? Why was she making a scene at the kids school?... .

She waged a war of Parental Alienation.  She was evicted (3 times) and each time my SO's schedule with his kids changed and so did our schedule together.

I have had my share of meltdowns around how I feel about his enmeshed kids, his crazy ex-wife and her BS, and my frustration with my SO for not always taking a what I believe strong enough stance on something.

But through all of this the underlying thread between us was love so we never gave up.  We've talked and cried, we've gotten angry, we've gone through periods of down time apart, and sometimes we've just hit the reset button on our relationship and started over.

I've learned to be more patient and he's learned to be tougher and we've both learned about BPD.

I can also say that in our case once the divorce was over the worst of the drama died down and continues to diminish for the most part.  My SO has learned to set his boundries and stand by them, he's learned to go low contact and he's learned a parrallel parenting style.

I can't tell you whether you should stay in your relationship or not that is up to you and your significant other.  You will have to determine if he and his ex will just keep going round and round or if he learns some new skills to  better deal with her.  Maybe you stay together but put a little distance between you while the worst of this goes on.  Maybe you help him learn about BPD and the way it works and some better coping stratgies or maybe you decide you really don't want to be involved in all the drama. 

I just wanted you to know that although it is hard it can work and I want you to know that you are absolutely NOT alone.    Hang in there and do what is best for you

[Hamakua]

Get a lawyer.

There is a way to more readily navigate what he is trying to get through but I am not a lawyer and I do not know the process.   He needs to get a lawyer and pursue an avenue where she cannot simply refuse to sign.  Be it being summoned to a trial, whatever, there is definitely a way.

I would hope you will stick with him through this and it's good you took a step back.  If you care for this man stay with him through this but insist on the lawyer (and make that the only real demand).  As angry and frustrated as you might be about your hopes and dreams, It's far worse of an experience for him.  Put your foot down on seeking legal council but beyond that I'd honestly try and give him as much leeway as you can.  Try and view the absurdities, from your stepped back position as comical.

That said, one of the important lessons we try and learn about BPD is that you need to take care of yourself first.  I'd try and find a way to relay this to your partner in such a way that he doesn't feel trapped from both sides.  Try not and let her damage what the two of you have and try and point that out to him.  For him, his kids will come first, I am sure, but for you, you need a partner otherwise "what's the point?"

Please think on it as I'm just outlining what I would do in your position, but I don't know all of the detail.   BPD sucks, though, doesn't it?   In how spiteful and manipulative some people can be.  I wish you the best of luck.

[Edit]

And don't have him threaten her with him getting a lawyer, that will make things worse.  No, get a lawyer, fill him in on what is going on, and pursue everything through the courts otherwise she will beat the two of you at your own game.  Second you threaten a lawyer, she will get one or update hers.

[hard2say]

Dear Hamakua and Panda39--

Thank you both so very much for replying to my post. Ah, it helps so much just to know other people understand this insanity.

I love him very much and I absolutely need to be patient--just as he absolutely needs to get tougher. And get a LAWYER, which he has just done. The reality of who she is and of what she is capable of, and in fact doing, has dawned on him slowly and excruciatingly--also maddeningly for me because I had her number from the start. Recent events (since my OP) have at last opened his eyes and I think we are at least on the same page now.

I appreciate the reminder about taking care of  myself. Yes, it is 100, 000 times worse to be him in this than to be me, yet it is all taking a toll on me, too. And I have definitely taken my anger at her out on him, which has to stop. He is devastated right now by the situation and I can only hope that, with legal help, it is temporary, even if she does succeed in dragging it all out as long as possible. 

Again, I really appreciate the responses.

[hard2say]

UPDATE:

He caved in to the pressure and stress that this situation has brought into his life and our relationship, and he broke it off with me.

He referred to himself as a "weak man" and I suspect he doesn't think he can break free of her control.

So. Hopefully this was my ONLY encounter with a BPD.

[Panda39]

hard2say,

So sorry to hear he broke things off that's gotta sting.  I know it's hard to hear this right now but this could be a blessing in disguise.

His "weak man" comment tells me he's not ready to have a relationship with anyone right now or ever if he isn't able create his own boundries and truely break things off with his ex.

I'm probably still with my SO because he has been able to make changes in the way he has dealt with and currently deals with his uBPDexw.  He hasn't always made those changes as fast as I'd like but there has always been forward progress.

Take some time and go do something nice or fun for yourself.  Wishing you well 

[hard2say]

She has one of the best lawyers in the city. She makes about 400K a year. He chose not to have a lawyer when they separated and were negotiating the parenting plan. Or when they were negotiating child support and financial stuff. That is why he is in the position he is in now. He finally did get a lawyer--a day late and many dollars short. He acted as passively in the divorce as he did in the marriage... .

What I think has happened is this--and he would never admit this to me:

She got realllly crazy when she realized that I was a serious romantic interest for him. She went nutso about forcing back into the bird nesting arrangement shortly after he told her that he was thinking of marrying me. He has seen the light about what evil she is capable of, realized he had to make a Faustian bargain, and decided to get rid of me in order to appease her. I think he understands that she will suddenly become more agreeable and willing to be magnanimous when she learns that he is alone again and lonely. She will be open to negotiating and will feel less threatened and abandoned.

I had the misfortune to meet this man at a time in his life when he is simply awash in the fallout from all of the passive, codependent mistakes he has made in deciding to stay with this woman for 20 years, and to have many children with her--many more than he wanted. She threatened suicide when he said he didn't want to grow the family any more and, instead of checking her in to a psych ward, he got her pregnant. This ugliness is just way, way bigger than me, ya know? He left himself wide open to her machinations, and is still in a place where the only way he knows to cope with her is to continue to walk on eggshells, and to cower to her evil. It has all come out in the wash and, yikes, I wish him the best... .I hope he decides to grow a pair... .

[Panda39]

hard2say, 

Glad to hear your follow up. 

It sounds to me like you see things very clearly and are doing okay. 

You are right on the money about growing a pair  Unless he is able to see his own role in the relationship he is in with his ex and deals with that he will continue to follow his same old patterns with her.  He will never be able to change her.  He can only change himself and how he interacts with her.

If you are still in touch with him you might refer him to this site.  He would find that he is not alone, he'd have some support, and he might learn much and  gradually... ."grow a pair".

Wishing you well - Panda

[hard2say]

Thank you so much, Panda39. 

He does know of this site, and he does have a therapist. Hard to say of what support he will avail himself. He seems to not be interested in getting any feedback right now. Last I heard, he wanted to "run away and be alone." So... .

I am doing ok. I feel sane, at least. 

Except for my smiley/emoticon addiction. 

[JohnLove]

Thank you so much, Panda39. 

He does know of this site, and he does have a therapist. Hard to say of what support he will avail himself. He seems to not be interested in getting any feedback right now. Last I heard, he wanted to "run away and be alone." So... .

I am doing ok. I feel sane, at least. 

Except for my smiley/emoticon addiction. 

Oh Hard2say, you are hilarious!. It seems you are doing better than a lot of people would in your situation. Good for you. 

[hard2say]

Thank you so much, Panda39. 

He does know of this site, and he does have a therapist. Hard to say of what support he will avail himself. He seems to not be interested in getting any feedback right now. Last I heard, he wanted to "run away and be alone." So... .

I am doing ok. I feel sane, at least. 

Except for my smiley/emoticon addiction. 

Oh Hard2say, you are hilarious!. It seems you are doing better than a lot of people would in your situation. Good for you. 

Thanks, JohnLove.  I appreciate your taking time to say that...

I've done the sobbing, falling apart thing, the insomnia thing, the 3 pints of ice cream thing, the drunk thing, the begging/pleading/negotiating thing. I just didn't bring any of it here to this site...

I am grateful to be out of their insanity... .I was feeling a like a pawn in their game and it was time to let go... .I think I am really just properly horrified at the tragedy of the BPD relationship situation. It breaks my heart to see what has happened and is happening to this man I love. I just can't save him... .and I wonder if being on his own without me truly IS the best thing for him right now... who knows... .anyway, cheers. 

[hard2say]

Well... .he apparently wanted to stay in daily contact with me, because I was such a source of strength and support and clarity for him... .never mind the numerous times that he faulted me for "lacking compassion" and being "aggressive" or "too angry" about his exBPD's behavior... .

Because, you know, her BPD is soo "complex... ."     And it required juuuust the right approach/response. He wanted to meet her crazy with loove and I just didn't get it, right? Until she pulled this crazy, evil, sadistic move with the child custody. Now he gets it and he needs me. But he doesn't want to invest in a relationship with me... .because he knows he is entangled with his ex and he wants to freedom to disengage with her in his own time frame, to the extent he deems appropriate, without having to consider me or my role in his life... .Sicko. Enmeshed. Yuck.

Uh... .no. Goodbye and good luck. I kicked him to the curb this time. He didn't see that coming. I guess eh was counting on me responding in the same Borderline needy way his ex did/does. You know... .I was needy when he first broke it off. I was desperate. Horrified. Helpless. Etc. I was losing the love of my life to this ___. But I'm SANE. They have been starring in their own sad Lifetime movie now for years. What I feel now is mostly revulsion as I catch glimmers of who HE is--and what kind of emotional manipulation HE employs--that he was able to survive that marriage for two decades.

I dodged a freakin' bullet.

[JohnLove]

Hmmm... .that's quite the update.   Are you sure he isn't suffering BPD himself?.

After living with His BPDw for that long he won't come out of that relationship unscathed. Oooh Lordy no. BPD is complex and it is simple. No question. It impacts those closest and they end up with all kinds of dysfunctional coping behaviours (I know I did    ).

A source of clarity he says?... .best to use that for someone who deserves it, eh?.

He needs to find his own clarity. Good to hear that she is "assisting" him with that but anybody who uses children as tools or weapons are absolutely abhorrent.    That is SO bad form and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Hard2say you are being very real about this situation. This is really important. To have clarity and an awareness of the truth of the matter... .because without that you are lost and almost certain to get caught up in the agony... .and the enmeshment.

It is normal to feel "needy" or devastated when you have invested yourself in another and it all goes wrong.

I see your strength. I think you do too.

I applaud you.   

[hard2say]

@JohnLove--

You know... .the possibility did flit across my mind that *he* is BPD (instead? too?).

All I know is that he has morphed from someone who I loved and was grieving for to someone who I feel is rather dangerous to me on the whole--emotionally, psychologically, spiritually.

He did say something kind of odd about his college-age son who was having some difficulties with the Financial Aid office at the large university he attends. My ex said, "Oh, he'll just work the system." When I asked how he thought his son could do that, he replied, "He'll just be charming, charismatic... .YOU know... ."    I didn't know what to say to that. It sounded weirdly narcissistic, or just wildly unrealistic... .or something. Odd. Last I heard, if you didn't meet the criteria, you didn't get the aid. 

[Panda39]

I'm not sure if I've been coming to these boards too often or what    but my first thought was that's a BPD kind of move. To be in a relationship with someone and have someone else in the wings.  Or he's looking to triangulate with you and the ex or he just wants to be co-dependent with someone or he is just deep in the FOG with the ex. 

No matter how you slice it he is not a good choice for a relationship right now.

Not to mention kind of proud that his son will be manipulative with is school's financial aid office.

My SO's uBPDexw used to complain in resturants in order to get her meals for free.  D18 thought that was pretty cool too until my SO asked her to put herself in the servers shoes and told her the servers could get in trouble or lose their jobs because of stuff like that.  How would she feel if some lied about her?

What happened to the Golden Rule?  Anyway... .I digress... .

Yep, hard2say you have dodged the bullet 

[hard2say]

Well... .he sent a text because he missed me. I called him and we talked... .he admitted that, yes, he HAD ended things with me because he determined that things would be more amicable with his ex without me in the picture.

I'm appalled. Even though I KNEW already that he'd done that. Something about him actually admitting that to me just makes me sick.

And instead of standing and fighting for his boundaries and for his kids, he has decided to pursue a job that would take him out of the country 70% of the time. He has a BUNCH of kids. Youngest just turned four. This is his solution to getting out of the nesting... .and to finding financial freedom.

I'll tell you all... .I was doing really ok before this reconnect. Now I feel icky. And he is blocked everywhere he can be.

Goodbye. Good luck. Don't ever come back.

[hard2say]

I'm stopping back in to say thank you to Matt, panda39, and JohnLove for taking the time to reply to my posts.

Best wishes to you all. 

   

[hard2say]

I'm stopping back in to say thank you to Matt, panda39, and JohnLove for taking the time to reply to my posts.

Best wishes to you all. 

   

Sorry Hamakua! I mean YOU, not Matt. Although I thank Matt for his contributions as well. I've read a lot of good stuff from him. And many many others.

Ok. Over and out.