Advice / reactions to the lies and tricky situation greatly appreciated.

[Compassion14]

Hi.

If anyone can give me insight to the latest chapter in crazy-making land, I'd be really grateful. My exBPDboyfriend and I recently had agreed to meet up and discuss the money he owed me (nearly £10,000).

Before we could meet, I found out that he'd been telling a mutual friend that he owed me nothing, that nothing legal had been signed in our joint purchase (a lie - we legally co-own the item in question) and that he'd been just 'helping me out' with payments because we were a couple but since we weren't dating any longer, why should he continue to 'help out?'

The truth (which I made said mutual friend aware of) is that he borrowed nearly £10,000 from me and used this towards a joint purchase. He is yet to pay anything back to me. He has not 'helped me out' etc in any shape of form.

Why the lies?

So, knowing we were to meet up to finalise how this situation is going to be handled, he meets with said friend (who I understand was going to challenge him on his previous lies to them) and then, immediately after their meet up, he texts to tell me he "will not be meeting with me as planned. Sorry X" No reason, no rescheduling... .and has now ignore my attempted subsequent communications seeking clarification.

What's going on and how do I proceed with this? I imagine the friend called him on his lies, but why then turn on me? Is the truth that he DOES owe money too painful to admit? Is he too embarrassed and ashamed that not only the friend now knows his willingness to lie, but he knows that I now know the offensive lies that he so happily spouts to others?

How do I proceed with a man so suddenly cold and seemingly happy to try to just walk away from his substantial financial obligations without a backward glance?

I don't want to go legal, but will if I have to. I'd rather sort it out amicably... .but then I suppose that would take a mature, adult to negotiate with... .

Any gut reactions/advice would be great appreciated.

Feeling impotent and shafted here. :-(

Compassion14

[Compassion14]

Please help. Feeling so lost and cheated hug here. :-(

[freedom33]

Hey compassion14. I am sorry to hear about the financial shenanegans with your ex. It sounds like you have a challenging situation to handle. Did you manage to get feedback from your friend on what happened during their meet up?

It is very difficult to get into the mind of PD person and try to make sense of why they are doing what they are doing. Restraining from the temptation to explain and detaching is key. My ex has some of my stuff in her flat and after our break for my own piece of mind I have written them off mentally. Obviously ten grand is a different story so I 'd advise you to use this common friend as a mediator to sort this out for you and avoid contact.

If that doesn't work then next step is that your lawyer can act as the mediator. The important thing here is for you to detach and carry on with your life and it is impossible to do so while you are engaging with him.

[Tolou]

Sorry about your situation.

I was owed money too, but not as much as you, however I was in a position to just let the money go, wasn't worth anything to me as long she stayed away.  My health came first and I wasn't going to break no contact. I always assumed she kept it because it is a form of attachment, power and control, but I didn't play game, I said let it burn.  I could use the money for sure, but it's not worth the price of being in contact with this person for me.

I did ask for it back while we were together, she said she would, never did and lied about what she borrowed it for and used the money on something else to begin with. ( what a liar went shopping and paid credit bills bought other b.s. instead fixing her messed house with a broken door and window, that what I loaned her the money for.

My advice is if you need the money, and this person is lying about it already, gather your proof and go the legal route.  If not, you will bleed every last payment back with someone who is not even aknowledging that this was a loan.  Put all your feelings aside and look at the facts and reality? Some owes you 10k... .He is lying about it, maybe because he is ashamed doesn't want to plan on returning it, and he can't be the bad guy.  He is the victim (you did something to deserve not getting your hard earned money back) smh... .that not rational either, is it for anyone to assume what another person is thinking or feeling... Truth and fact, you haven't got the money back and he's been lying and now ignoring, bad combination here.  I knew a woman a few years back I loaned a couple hundred dollars at work, we worked different shifts so we rarely saw eachother.  She then got laid off, I didn't see or hear from her for over two years.  Her number was disconnected we lost touch.  One day she returned to my office and left all the money in a envelope with a note thanking me and explaining her difficult time.  My point, if a person is honest and responsible, that's what they are regardless what takes place in a relationship.  This was not my lover just a co-worker, but an honest person. who appreciated my help left her number and took me to lunch to thank me and catch up, we still talk to this day. Now the person who I assumed loved me never returned a dime, made me out to be a monster, but it is just someone who is not matture enough to be responsible and return what isn't theres, they justify it in their minds, we can't understand it.

[Lmls]

Hi Compassion 14.

I am really sorry for your upset and difficult situation.

I separated from my ex and father of three children over a year ago.  We tried mediation to finalise our financial situation but after a while he refused to continue. He initially said he would commit to his bare legal minimum towards the children but then spent the next year trying to renege on that via his solicitor. His behaviour during this time felt like a narcisstic rage yet I continued to try not to escalate things. Eventually after us both spending thousands of pounds on solicitors he ran out of excuses and when he threatened to take me to court over our home I suggested he do just that as my legal advice was that I should win. He then backed down, said he thought that the threat would force me to give in and eventually signed legal agreements.

Although the outcome was the best I could hope for the financial and emotional toll was great, however personally it was the right thing for me to do.

I suggest you consider taking legal advice, asking your solicitor to send a strongly worded letter to him with facts and repayment terms, but keep in your own mind how much energy and how much money you are willing to invest in this. He doesn't need to know this but perhaps an initial strong no nonsense stance may work. My lasting feeling was that it wasn't just necessarily about the money but also about him trying to affect control.

I wish you well.

[Infared]

Hi Compassion... .

I agree with what Lmls says:

"I suggest you consider taking legal advice, asking your solicitor to send a strongly worded letter to him with facts and repayment terms, but keep in your own mind how much energy and how much money you are willing to invest in this. He doesn't need to know this but perhaps an initial strong no nonsense stance may work. My lasting feeling was that it wasn't just necessarily about the money but also about him trying to affect control."

I think that this person has showed their hand to you. I think you need to detach and act firmly through a legal mediator.

Your pwBPD IS lying to others, no doubt lying to you and avoiding you and avoiding responsibility.

I think, as someone said above that you need to step back, clearly see the facts and act accordingly.

My experience with pwBPD is that they will deny all the facts with their own selfishly skewed story that allows them to get exactly what they want with the least amount of (or no) responsibility. Me, my dignity and my feelings did not matter in the least to mine. It may be hard for you to comprehend that at this moment... .but clearly OBSERVE THE ACTIONS. You are seeing who this person actually is.  They are not who they SAY they are. They are what actions they take. It was shocking when I realized that this person had been manipulating me since the day they met me.  I was now seeing who they actually were and emotionally it hurt like hell... .but it did not change the facts.

I would tell you to detach, move swiftly and as the gentleman said above, be prepared to let the sum go and move on if the process becomes emotionally and financially untenable.  

Life becomes a mess sometimes no matter how hard we try.

[goldylamont]

reverse psychology might work? actually this deserves a few more question marks ? i unintentionally did this to my ex while arguing one time and she told me she wasn't going to pay me back (about $1000). but my situation is different because it's considerably less. but when she was yelling at me about not paying me back, i just told her "I KNOW, you're not going to pay me back. I ALWAYS KNEW you were never going to pay it back. Do you think i give a *** about $1000? I could care less, all i care about is someone's word. You CAN'T pay me back because you don't have anything in here [pointing to chest]". well, that stopped the money argument. it's odd but i think speaking to her narcissistic side with a challenge of 'you can't pay me back because you're incapable of doing so. oh, and i didn't care because this just proves to me i am right.' kind of turned the tables on her. now she had to prove she wasn't this horrible empty person. and, months later she really did start trying to pay me back, i think i got about $200 before going completely no-contact and then i told her to keep the rest. honestly the other $800 didn't mean as much to me as the fact that i know she really tried to pay me back (she was really strapped for funds).

so, sorry for going on a tangent with the story. i don't recommend you do anything to cause conflict. but if there's anything you could maybe take from it is that if it's possible telegraph to him that it's not a big deal to you. even though 10k *is* a big deal i know. i think what i mean is that as someone else said part of him doing this could be to punish you, create drama. so if you remove the drama it becomes less of a motivation for him. i'd act like it wasn't a big deal to him while simultaneously taking legal action on your end. don't tell him about anything legal until it's said and done, that's only for you to know.

when separating from high-conflict individuals you have to keep your emotions and vulnerabilities to yourself or they will use them against you unfortunately. don't feel guilty in any way, get a lawyer and do what you can using the legal route. talking or being nice is out of the question at this point, there's nothing more he'd want than to see you trying to be nice while he had something you cared about to hold over your head. best of luck.

[Compassion14]

Thankyou everyone. Your support is greatly appreciated. I feel that part of him is scared to settle his debt because he senses that'll be it contact wise. Days before our supposed meeting he invited me to dinner to discuss the situation (didn't happen) and texted romantic quotes to me. I am being painted white and black quicker than I can keep up. Anyway... .part of me thinks that and part of me can't work out what on earth he's doing.

All I do know is he's not being upfront or honourable... .things he holds so dear apparently. The lying to others then another story to me... .I realise I never really knew this man. I knew and loved the man he wished he was... .but not the real man who indeed has shown his hand. It is heart breaking to realise you were duped ... .and scary.

He prides himself on being honourable. Can I appeal to this before having to spend a fortune on a lawyer?

[Perfidy]

Hello compassion! Wow, cool name. Hope your day is going well and just want to suggest that self justification might be what you are observing in the other's behavior. As for what you should do... Well, legal matters aren't my strong suit. I can tell you that you would be better off emotionally to simply let it go. Don't look back and develop your self into the eternal magnificence that is your potential. Don't sweat the little stuff.