Right and Wrong VS BPD

[Agent_of_Chaos]

I understand that people suffering from BPD are ill.  I am very sensitive, nurturing, and empathetic to that fact.  My question is how do they not understand the right and wrong?  For example: REPLACEMENTS.  Replacements seem to be a common tale amongst those of us on this forum.  Many of us reveal that our partners had replacements lined up prior to the demise of the relationship.  I understand why they have a replacement, I understand their emotional need to fill the void, BUT... .don't they realize that cheating is cheating.  No matter how you spin it if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... .Another example impulsive spending.  If they know that there is only X amount of funds in the bank account and they spend XX of funds, how is this justified?  Again, I realize why they do it, I understand their need to do it... .but it is still wrong.  Right and wrong is very black and white.

I ask because the relationship with my uBPDx failed but I am still trying to maintain a friendship.  My only real drive for maintaining the friendship is to act as a support system because she has stated she is going to seek treatment.  I am doing the best I can with coping with the loss despite the immense amount of pain but this question consumes my brain.

I don't know if this is the appropriate board to ask this question on so please move if needed.  I'd really like some proper insight or at least some wisdom that I can digest.

[vortex of confusion]

I tend to think about it in terms of them failing to internalize things. They tend to be more outwardly focused. To me, that means that they know right from wrong but they haven't fully internalized those concepts yet. In young children, there is talk about them reaching the age of reason where they fully understand what they are doing. I thing some people with BPD never fully reached the age of reason. Or, if they did, there is some kind of glitch that causes them to short circuit when met with a situation that requires them to exercise a bit of self control. They lack impulse control because they never fully learned to deal with things.

My husband and I had a discussion about how he doesn't know how to handle certain sexual urges. He doesn't grasp the concept of delayed gratification. If he needs a release, he is going to find a way to get it even if that means it might be hurtful to me or himself. He is so caught up in his little world that he can't seem to wait out his feelings and urges and must satisfy them.

[fred6]

I've wondered this myself. Me and my ex had 4-5 talks about cheating and being faithful over our 3 years together. I had told her that I have been cheated on in the past and that if she thought that it might happen to just end our relationship and wait until I'm totally moved out before she continues with someone else. Her reply was always the same, "I hate cheaters. I've been cheated on several times and know how it feels. I have never and would never cheat on anyone. Once a cheater, always a cheater". One of those conversations was only 3-4 weeks before she got caught.

Now I have to re evaluate whether I'm the first one that she's cheated on. And also have to re evaluate how long she was cheating on me and with how many people. I'll probably never know the answer to those questions. But I still wonder about it. What are the odds that I caught her at the very beginning of the 1st time she's ever cheated on anyone? What are the odds that she hasn't been cheating on me for a long time? But according to her, this one of her best and longest relationships in the past 10+ years. This person goes to church every week and says that she puts GOD first. This person says that sex means nothing to her due to past abuse.

So let me get this straight. She she ruined one of the best relationships she's ever had, for something that means nothing to her(sex), and turned herself into something she hates(a cheater). What the heck kind of sense does that make? After she admitted that she had cheated, I asked her if her "once a cheater, always a cheater" motto now applied to her. Her answer was a cold, remorseless "YES". Accompanied by a disgusted look towards me, almost like I was the one that cheated on her. She just left me standing there as she walked away.

This person was so convincing with all with all of these statements. If someone would have asked me a year ago if my ex would have done all of this to me, I would have called them CRAZY. So, yes they know right from wrong. They are just selfish a$$hole lairs... .

[Agent_of_Chaos]

I understand and appreciate both points of view.  Both are honest and denote my internal struggle with the question.  It makes sense to me that someone with BPD may truly have not had the ability or allowance to develop the sense of right and wrong.

I guess my dilemma is going through the grieving process and finding some answers in this forum has given me a sense of comfort.  It has softened the blow to my ego, the feeling of rejection, although it is still cantankerous going through the motions.  The fact that I now realize my partner has BPD doesn't absolve the agony but it is helping me cope.  It has alleviated badgering myself.

I just don't want to throw my hands up and say Oh well she suffers from BPD so all is forgiven.  The events that transpired before our break up is something you just don't do to someone whom has invested and given everything they had to you for 3 years.  There was deception, calculated selfishness, possible infidelity (i'm truly not certain), and just an over cast of disrespect.  It was handled in the WRONG manner.  Perhaps I am seeking accountability for her actions or lack there of.  I realize this is an impossible feat.

Should I just chalk this up to being one of the many wonderful qualities of ending a relationship with someone suffering from BPD?  If that's the case... .AAAAAAARGH. :-/

[fred6]

I understand and appreciate both points of view.  Both are honest and denote my internal struggle with the question.  It makes sense to me that someone with BPD may truly have not had the ability or allowance to develop the sense of right and wrong.

I guess my dilemma is going through the grieving process and finding some answers in this forum has given me a sense of comfort.  It has softened the blow to my ego, the feeling of rejection, although it is still cantankerous going through the motions.  The fact that I now realize my partner has BPD doesn't absolve the agony but it is helping me cope.  It has alleviated badgering myself.

I just don't want to throw my hands up and say Oh well she suffers from BPD so all is forgiven.  The events that transpired before our break up is something you just don't do to someone whom has invested and given everything they had to you for 3 years.  There was deception, calculated selfishness, possible infidelity (i'm truly not certain), and just an over cast of disrespect.  It was handled in the WRONG manner.  Perhaps I am seeking accountability for her actions or lack there of.  I realize this is an impossible feat.

Should I just chalk this up to being one of the many wonderful qualities of ending a relationship with someone suffering from BPD?  If that's the case... .AAAAAAARGH. :-/

I don't know what to tell you Agent. I try not to worry about it too much but it's hard knowing that someone just straight up told me one thing(right)and then did another thing(very wrong)all while claiming that they put GOD first in their life. She knew right from wrong. And it wasn't a mistake, it was a choice she made. That's why she would never talk to me about it or give me any answers. They may be ill and disordered. But they know right from wrong and they know what they are doing. Life is all about choices, and she made all of these choices. I didn't ask for any of this $hit.

Can you tell that it's an "ANGRY" day,

[Agent_of_Chaos]

I understand and appreciate both points of view.  Both are honest and denote my internal struggle with the question.  It makes sense to me that someone with BPD may truly have not had the ability or allowance to develop the sense of right and wrong.

I guess my dilemma is going through the grieving process and finding some answers in this forum has given me a sense of comfort.  It has softened the blow to my ego, the feeling of rejection, although it is still cantankerous going through the motions.  The fact that I now realize my partner has BPD doesn't absolve the agony but it is helping me cope.  It has alleviated badgering myself.

I just don't want to throw my hands up and say Oh well she suffers from BPD so all is forgiven.  The events that transpired before our break up is something you just don't do to someone whom has invested and given everything they had to you for 3 years.  There was deception, calculated selfishness, possible infidelity (i'm truly not certain), and just an over cast of disrespect.  It was handled in the WRONG manner.  Perhaps I am seeking accountability for her actions or lack there of.  I realize this is an impossible feat.

Should I just chalk this up to being one of the many wonderful qualities of ending a relationship with someone suffering from BPD?  If that's the case... .AAAAAAARGH. :-/

I don't know what to tell you Agent. I try not to worry about it too much but it's hard knowing that someone just straight up told me one thing(right)and then did another thing(very wrong)all while claiming that they put GOD first in their life. She knew right from wrong. And it wasn't a mistake, it was a choice she made. That's why she would never talk to me about it or give me any answers. They may be ill and disordered. But they know right from wrong and they know what they are doing. Life is all about choices, and she made all of these choices. I didn't ask for any of this $hit.

Can you tell that it's an "ANGRY" day,

LOL Fred, thank you for the chuckle?  I completely get what you are saying. I made a post yesterday stating that I haven't yet tapped into my "Anger" stage.  Trust me, there are sore points that leave me bitter but being full on ANGRY has yet to surface.  I think this struggle has some stronghold on that.  I tip toe back and forth across the line of choice vs illness.  Your points are completely valid and understood.  I don't want to give her too much rope for her to say "Well it's b/c I have BPD." Does that make sense?

[clydegriffith]

They definitley know right from wrong otherwise they would be the way they are towards everyone. All they need is one person to mentally and physically abuse.

[Infared]

Of course they know right from wrong... .that is WHY they are lying, because they know!  I agree too, that it is a choice that they make over and over again out of selfishness and sickness.

[fred6]

They definitley know right from wrong otherwise they would be the way they are towards everyone. All they need is one person to mentally and physically abuse.

Not only that. They know right from wrong. However, right only applies to them and wrong only applies to their partners.

I tried to talk to her about her cheating on me and she reversed the topic to "I'm pissed off because you invaded my privacy and snooped on my phone and FB". I pointed out that she never had a problem in the past if I picked up her phone for whatever reason or got on her laptop. And that the only reason she was pissed off is because she got caught doing something she knew was wrong. I told her that if she thought I was cheating on her that she would have snooped on my phone or FB too.

Her reply was ludicrous, "If I even thought you were cheating on me your a$$ would have been kicked out and your $hit would have been in the street". So all she needed was a hunch, she didn't even need to gather proof that I was cheating on her and I would have been guilty

In the end, I would have been split black and kicked out if I cheated on her. But I was still split black and kicked out because she did actually cheat on me. So I get the same treatment either way. Sounds like a catch 22 to me.

She did apologize to me twice through text messages because she was too cowardly and ashamed to do it in person. But a key phrase that she used was, "I didn't intend to hurt you". However, what is intent? She made a half assed attempt to appologize with her texts, so she knows she was wrong. And likewise she chose to spread her legs for this Rocky character, it wasn't an accident. So therefore she intended to do something that she knew was wrong. But she didn't intend to hurt me? Bull$hit, she knew exactly what she was doing. Like I said, these people are ill and disordered, but they still know what they are doing and the choices they make. They are immature selfish a$$hole liars

[Pingo]

If they didn't know right from wrong why did mine continuously try to 'catch me in the act' with his invasion of my privacy, constant questioning, stalking me, etc.  He knew cheating was wrong, he sure didn't want me to be cheating!  And in the end his paranoia was all about projection!  Lots of double standards.  Yes they are emotionally immature but I believe they definitely know right from wrong.

[fred6]

And in an ironic twist. Before I moved into her house, we had a talk. I told her, "Are you sure you want to do this? I'm getting rid of my apartment and all of my furniture to come be with you. You can't just decide to kick me out because you get tired of me. Make sure you want me here".

Her reply, "As long as you don't cheat on me, abuse me, or hurt my kids there won't be any problems. I love you". And after all of that, she turns out to be a mentally ill slut. Again, joke's on me. I'm a stupid sucker fool. I don't think that I'll ever fully trust a female ever again until the day I die 

[Caredverymuch]

I had told her that I have been cheated on in the past and that if she thought that it might happen to just end our relationship and wait until I'm totally moved out before she continues with someone else. Her reply was always the same, "I hate cheaters. I've been cheated on several times and know how it feels. I have never and would never cheat on anyone.

Now I have to re evaluate whether I'm the first one that she's cheated on. And also have to re evaluate how long she was cheating on me and with how many people. I'll probably never know the answer to those questions. But I still wonder about it. What are the odds that I caught her at the very beginning of the 1st time she's ever cheated on anyone? What are the odds that she hasn't been cheating on me for a long time? But according to her, this one of her best and longest relationships in the past 10+ years. This person goes to church every week and says that she puts GOD first. This person says that sex means nothing to her due to past abuse.

So let me get this straight. She she ruined one of the best relationships she's ever had, for something that means nothing to her(sex), and turned herself into something she hates(a cheater). What the heck kind of sense does that make?

Fred I experienced the same. Had the very same conversations w my ex. Many times. Often times initiated by him. There are many ppl on earth that I doubt.  I am no fool either.  I trusted his words unwaveringly. Fully.  As it zero gut feeing it was a lie. Beyond a sincere feeling.  Far beyond. Laced in adoring soft constant attentive passionate love.

He did the same. It BLEW MY MIND. SHOCKED ME. Made me physically ill.  It was like a practical joke waiting for the " JK" that never came.  Like learning he was a con. He was a gentle little puppy full of vulnerable compassionate essence to me. 

He too was a church goer, so much was about God.

It doesn't make sense Fred. It makes nothing near sense.

It was said here on another thread that the person we saw at the end of the r/s was the real person. Not the person we fell in love with in the beginning.  I think in my case this is quite true. That man I thought I knew all that time is gone. I never saw that soft kind truthful man I thought I knew... .again. 

[Pingo]

Another thought popped in my head after I commented. Maybe we mistakenly believe that they have the value of honesty/loyalty/trust early on in the r/s because they seem so obsessed with us not cheating but maybe it has nothing to do with values and everything to do with control. Maybe they only see the 'wrong' in it because it threatens their need to have complete control over us. Maybe in reality they could care less about right and wrong.

[Raybo48]

Unfortunately with a recipe of no empathy, no remorse, no ability so self sooth you won't ever get someone to contemplate right from wrong.  It's just not in their DNA, and never will be without very long term therapy.   My ex/BPD female got in various emotional and physical relationships behind my back when I was with her.  Even caught red handed they don't feel the remorse and will deny it to your face and then project any shame they may have onto you so you look like the bad guy.  It's what they do, and they do it well.  Unfortunately it doesn't help the non's like us understand it any better because our DNA is made up of the traits they severely lack.

[vortex of confusion]

I was accused of having double standards. My husband would lump everything together into one big thing and then accuse me of having double standards. Those that have been following my drama know that we experimented with an open relationship. I felt like I was pretty honest about what I was doing. He was not honest at all. He would tell me one thing and then do another. When I would question him, he would accuse me of having a double standard and ask me why I could have somebody on the side but he couldn't. I could never make him understand that my upset wasn't about him having somebody on the side. My upset was due to his lack of honesty along with the fact that he would make these other people his priority. I tried to keep my interactions on the side pretty low key and I tried not to let it interfere with my ability to take care of him or the kids. I was very adamant about that. He would become obsessed with his side stuff and would talk to me about it and would get upset if I had somebody and he didn't. He would get insanely jealous of the fact that I had somebody and he didn't. Oh, he didn't care if I was getting busy with somebody else as long as I gave him every single detail. I still can't wrap my mind around how he was able to justify some of his behavior and NOT understand how wrong it was.

And then there is the issue of accountability. Whenever I try to hold him accountable for anything, he gets so defensive and upset and acts like I am persecuting him and then I am suddenly the bad guy.

[Mutt]

Unfortunately with a recipe of no empathy, no remorse, no ability so self sooth you won't ever get someone to contemplate right from wrong.  It's just not in their DNA, and never will be without very long term therapy.   My ex/BPD female got in various emotional and physical relationships behind my back when I was with her.  Even caught red handed they don't feel the remorse and will deny it to your face and then project any shame they may have onto you so you look like the bad guy.  It's what they do, and they do it well.  Unfortunately it doesn't help the non's like us understand it any better because our DNA is made up of the traits they severely lack.

I'm sorry but I don't agree that a pwBPD lacks remorse or empathy. BPD isn't sociopathy. They feel more intensely and emotions are amplified by two thousand fold. If a pwBPD is emotionally dysregulated it's difficult for them to put themselves in someone else's shoes or show empathy.

When it comes to not feeling remorse they feel bad about their actions and have inner conflict. They cope differently and one behavior to rid of the conflictual feelings or emotions is to project those emotions. It's a temporary relief and they feel better but it is a short term effect.

Having said that, saying that they feel no remorse and no empathy is a black and white term. It is there, it's different in comparison to someone that is not disordered. We're talking about defense mechanisms and maladaptive coping skills to cope with their core wound of abandonment. A pwBPD that is undiagnosed and not seeking treatment live and suffers from their trauma.

From my experience with the person in my life that is disordered. She knows the difference between right and wrong. She is also an adult and responsible for her actions. She felt guilt from cheating and was walking around with that inner conflict. She often had dissociative phases and was projecting. She coped by dissociating and changing reality to match her out of place feelings. Also projecting her negative feelings and actions on me.

I agree Raybo48 that we are comparing our belief system and coping skills against someone that is disordered with a distorted belief system and maladaptive coping skills. Specific causes are unknown. It is to believe to be the result of biological vulnerabilities, biopsychosocial model and biologically they are more likely to have abnormalities in the size of the areas of the brain that regulate emotion and integrate thoughts and emotions.

Yes, we can understand by learning about the disorder and you can depersonalize and become indifferent to the behaviors.

[Raybo48]

I also believe that not all BPD's are the same and that some are far worse than others in their disorder.  Then when you throw a massive addiction (my pbd is a major alcoholic) in the mix it changes the playing field even more.  

She's relatively sober now, has fallen off the wagon a couple of times, but from all accounts (her long term friends say the same thing) her pathology is even worse than before the alcohol 5 years ago.  She's far more self-centered and far more BPD than ever before and seems to have all the traits of what they call a 'dry alcoholic" on top of it all.  It's really sad and very dangerous because she's completely unpredictable on every emotional level now.   Now she's running rampant on plenty of fish and zoosk looking for a boyfriend.  I'd love to warn everyone, but they will have to figure it out for themselves as I did.      

[vortex of confusion]

I'm sorry but I don't agree that a pwBPD lacks remorse or empathy. BPD isn't sociopathy. They more intensely and emotions are amplified by two thousand fold. If a pwBPD is emotionally dysregulated it's difficult for them to put themselves in someone else's shows or show empathy.

That is my experience as well. It is a vicious cycle for them. They do feel remorse but that remorse makes them feel so bad that they don't know what to do about it so they end up doing the very thing that they felt bad about doing. they do something to hurt us, they feel bad and don't know how to soothe themselves so they end up doing that bad thing all over again just to get a few moments of relief from their own personal torment.

If one were to flip that around, I absolutely lack the ability to understand my husband. That is why most of us are here. We are here because we do not understand WHY our partners are behaving the way they did. We cannot put ourselves in their shoes. Does that make us disordered?

When it comes to not feeling remorse they feel bad about their actions and have inner conflict. They cope differently and one behavior to rid of the conflictual feelings or emotions is to project those emotions. It's a temporary relief and they feel better but it is a short term effect.

From my experience with the person in my life that is disordered. She knows the difference between right and wrong.

Knowing something and being able to apply it on a practical level are two very different things. That is something that has always perplexed me about my husband. He has advanced degrees in philosophy and he teaches ETHICS for crying out loud. He sits in front of a class and lectures and lectures students about how to be ethical. He has taught religious prep classes at church. He is a member of a couple of men's groups that are all about being a better man. None of that has made one ounce of difference in his actual behavior. There is a disconnect there.

Yes, we can understand by learning about the disorder and you can depersonalize and become indifferent to the behaviors.

The only thing that has given me any kind of peace or sanity is to depersonalize. The hardest part is to detach.

[Caredverymuch]

I'm sorry but I don't agree that a pwBPD lacks remorse or empathy. BPD isn't sociopathy. They more intensely and emotions are amplified by two thousand fold. If a pwBPD is emotionally dysregulated it's difficult for them to put themselves in someone else's shows or show empathy.

That is my experience as well. It is a vicious cycle for them. They do feel remorse but that remorse makes them feel so bad that they don't know what to do about it so they end up doing the very thing that they felt bad about doing. they do something to hurt us, they feel bad and don't know how to soothe themselves so they end up doing that bad thing all over again just to get a few moments of relief from their own personal torment.

If one were to flip that around, I absolutely lack the ability to understand my husband. That is why most of us are here. We are here because we do not understand WHY our partners are behaving the way they did. We cannot put ourselves in their shoes. Does that make us disordered?

When it comes to not feeling remorse they feel bad about their actions and have inner conflict. They cope differently and one behavior to rid of the conflictual feelings or emotions is to project those emotions. It's a temporary relief and they feel better but it is a short term effect.

From my experience with the person in my life that is disordered. She knows the difference between right and wrong.

Knowing something and being able to apply it on a practical level are two very different things. That is something that has always perplexed me about my husband. He has advanced degrees in philosophy and he teaches ETHICS for crying out loud. He sits in front of a class and lectures and lectures students about how to be ethical. He has taught religious prep classes at church. He is a member of a couple of men's groups that are all about being a better man. None of that has made one ounce of difference in his actual behavior. There is a disconnect there.

Yes, we can understand by learning about the disorder and you can depersonalize and become indifferent to the behaviors.

The only thing that has given me any kind of peace or sanity is to depersonalize. The hardest part is to detach.

Vortex, thank you for the insight you share here. I gain a great deal from your posts.

Was/is your spouse in any type of BPD treatment?

[vortex of confusion]

Vortex, thank you for the insight you share here. I gain a great deal from your posts.

Was/is your spouse in any type of BPD treatment?

Thanks for the compliment. I grew up with crazy. I never thought I would marry it. I thought I did everything I could to protect myself. I thought I did everything "right".

No, he is not in any kind of BPD treatment. He is in a 12 step program for sex addiction and he occasionally sees a therapist. I asked him if he was going to see a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist and he said that no he wasn't. He was going to deal with the SA through the twelve step program. I am not really sure what his goals are with his therapist. He just switched to a new one so I have absolutely no idea what sorts of things they are working towards. I know that one of the things he is supposed to be doing is trying to put a label on his feelings. She supposedly gave him a worksheet with a list of feelings. I never saw it. he is also supposed to be journaling but I have yet to see him do that either.

[Caredverymuch]

Vortex, thank you for the insight you share here. I gain a great deal from your posts.

Was/is your spouse in any type of BPD treatment?

Thanks for the compliment. I grew up with crazy. I never thought I would marry it. I thought I did everything I could to protect myself. I thought I did everything "right".

No, he is not in any kind of BPD treatment. He is in a 12 step program for sex addiction and he occasionally sees a therapist. I asked him if he was going to see a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist and he said that no he wasn't. He was going to deal with the SA through the twelve step program. I am not really sure what his goals are with his therapist. He just switched to a new one so I have absolutely no idea what sorts of things they are working towards. I know that one of the things he is supposed to be doing is trying to put a label on his feelings. She supposedly gave him a worksheet with a list of feelings. I never saw it. he is also supposed to be journaling but I have yet to see him do that either.

I am very sorry for your struggles vortex.  Not easy. None of this.

Correct me as i may be wrong from my recollection of your posts. 

Has your spouse been identified as BPD?

[vortex of confusion]

I am very sorry for your struggles vortex.  Not easy. None of this.

Correct me as i may be wrong from my recollection of your posts. 

Has your spouse been identified as BPD?

No, he has not been identified as anything but a sex addict. I have no clue what his (or mine) condition(s) is/are. I find the tools and resources here to be very helpful. I don't have any hope for him being diagnosed as anything because he is not going to be honest enough for anybody to make any kind of real determination about anything. His first therapist said that she wouldn't be able to help him if he wasn't more present in the sessions. She told him that he clearly seemed detached. Basically, the lights were on but nobody was home.

[Infared]

I had told her that I have been cheated on in the past and that if she thought that it might happen to just end our relationship and wait until I'm totally moved out before she continues with someone else. Her reply was always the same, "I hate cheaters. I've been cheated on several times and know how it feels. I have never and would never cheat on anyone.

Now I have to re evaluate whether I'm the first one that she's cheated on. And also have to re evaluate how long she was cheating on me and with how many people. I'll probably never know the answer to those questions. But I still wonder about it. What are the odds that I caught her at the very beginning of the 1st time she's ever cheated on anyone? What are the odds that she hasn't been cheating on me for a long time? But according to her, this one of her best and longest relationships in the past 10+ years. This person goes to church every week and says that she puts GOD first. This person says that sex means nothing to her due to past abuse.

So let me get this straight. She she ruined one of the best relationships she's ever had, for something that means nothing to her(sex), and turned herself into something she hates(a cheater). What the heck kind of sense does that make?

Fred I experienced the same. Had the very same conversations w my ex. Many times. Often times initiated by him. There are many ppl on earth that I doubt.  I am no fool either.  I trusted his words unwaveringly. Fully.  As it zero gut feeing it was a lie. Beyond a sincere feeling.  Far beyond. Laced in adoring soft constant attentive passionate love.

He did the same. It BLEW MY MIND. SHOCKED ME. Made me physically ill.  It was like a practical joke waiting for the " JK" that never came.  Like learning he was a con. He was a gentle little puppy full of vulnerable compassionate essence to me.  

He too was a church goer, so much was about God.

It doesn't make sense Fred. It makes nothing near sense.

It was said here on another thread that the person we saw at the end of the r/s was the real person. Not the person we fell in love with in the beginning.  I think in my case this is quite true. That man I thought I knew all that time is gone. I never saw that soft kind truthful man I thought I knew... .again.  

Yes. Mine turned into someone I had never met at the end of the relationship and has remained this stranger since running off with new supply.  I have to say that I agree with the sentiment that this is the real person. The person that I knew was just someone playing a manipulative ruse. Someone with no sense of self... So all they can do is mirror and ruse... .and then she was also someone who started storing up resentment, and I had no clue...  I had a few glimpses of this before I started to date her... .but just thought... "I will not get treated that way. With us it will be different." 5 years later her true self came out in spades. It devastated me... .but she didn't miss a beat and was just brutal to me.   Quite devastating to live through.

[fred6]

Now I have to re evaluate whether I'm the first one that she's cheated on. And also have to re evaluate how long she was cheating on me and with how many people. I'll probably never know the answer to those questions. But I still wonder about it. What are the odds that I caught her at the very beginning of the 1st time she's ever cheated on anyone? What are the odds that she hasn't been cheating on me for a long time?

After posting this. I reflected upon these two questions. And although I will never know the true answers to them. I don't know if I really want to know the answers.

I mean, it would suck to know that I was the first one that she ever cheated on. But then again, it would suck just as bad to know that she's been cheating on me for a long time. Now that I think about it though, I guess that it could be both, which would double suck. Not knowing the answers sucks and knowing the answers would probably suck. Hell, what doesn't suck these days? I'm so sick of thinking about all of this BS

[Infared]

Now I have to re evaluate whether I'm the first one that she's cheated on. And also have to re evaluate how long she was cheating on me and with how many people. I'll probably never know the answer to those questions. But I still wonder about it. What are the odds that I caught her at the very beginning of the 1st time she's ever cheated on anyone? What are the odds that she hasn't been cheating on me for a long time?

After posting this. I reflected upon these two questions. And although I will never know the true answers to them. I don't know if I really want to know the answers.

I mean, it would suck to know that I was the first one that she ever cheated on. But then again, it would suck just as bad to know that she's been cheating on me for a long time. Now that I think about it though, I guess that it could be both, which would double suck. Not knowing the answers sucks and knowing the answers would probably suck. Hell, what doesn't suck these days? I'm so sick of thinking about all of this BS

One thing for sure... .I was never going to get any of those answers from my pwBPD. Before I dated mine she was cheating on the person that she was living with, but she had a big long story that "explained" that. I stupidly thought that that would not happen to me.  I was careful and asked a lot of questions and proceeded slowly, etc.   Mine ran off with new supply after being with me for five years... .she met the guy 2 years before the departure but I will never know how long it was going on or if there were others. She is an expert liar... .sort of... .because I did catch her in lies after the end and she would act so psycho... .just making up facts and trying to change reality... .it was soo hurtful and bizarre coming from this person that I thought was my soulmate.  This was one ruthless individual. Cheating was just a way of life for her, and she would just manipulate and fool all these people, her parents, him, me, anyone she needed to ruse... .she would give "victim face" and tell whatever lies she needed to control everyone and get what she wanted.

My experience subscribes to the fact "once a cheater always a cheater". It's so sick and hurtful.

[Chasing_Ghosts]

It's so sick and hurtful.

Toxic to say the least.

[fred6]

My experience subscribes to the fact "once a cheater always a cheater". It's so sick and hurtful.

It's funny how "once a cheater, always a cheater", was always her motto whenever we talked about fidelity.

[Raybo48]

My experience subscribes to the fact "once a cheater always a cheater". It's so sick and hurtful.

It's funny how "once a cheater, always a cheater", was always her motto whenever we talked about fidelity.

Same here... It was ALWAYS her ex boyfriends, fiancées who cheated on her. She was also famous for saying "I don't lie".  I told her many times that people who announce they don't lie are liars and she always hated that with a passion.  It's what I believe and I know for a fact that she's a pathological liar.

[Infared]

My experience subscribes to the fact "once a cheater always a cheater". It's so sick and hurtful.

It's funny how "once a cheater, always a cheater", was always her motto whenever we talked about fidelity.

Mine always said "a zebra doesn't change its stripes"... and she was definitely living proof of that.