Sisters

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am posting here for a different perspective-I am actually a parent but I would like to have the point of view of siblings.

My eldest daughter has BPD. She has had difficulties since her early teens (suicide attempts, eating disorder, dramatic fall-outs with friends, lying). Things have improved somewhat as she has got older. She is now 33.

I have a younger daughter (3 years younger) who does not have BPD. She hold down a good job, is a caring person and has a nice husband.

My older daughter all through school interfered in her sister's friendships-told lies, caused trouble etc.

When her sister was a student she phoned her regularly threatening suicide and making her sister responsible-it caused a lot of stress.

There was also an incident of older daughter finding her sister on a site a bit like this-reading the posts and forwarding them to friends-causing her sister embarrassment.

Things did improve and both my daughters got married.

Last year my younger daughter let my older daughter borrow her lap top. The older daughter accessed her e-mail account and trawled through it, reading a lot of personal information.

The younger daughter totally lost it, said she has had enough and has gone no contact with her sister. She says that this is self-preservation.

Last Christmas she refused to be with her sister at Christmas and I told older daughter she couldn't spend Christmas with us.

This obviously upset her and it nearly cost me contact with my grndchildren.

I am now speaking to everyone again and I am seeing my grandchildren. Younger daughter understands that I wish to see older daughter and grandchildren

However as the festive season approaches so do awkward situations.

Both sisters now wish not to see each other. Younger daughter understands I wish to maintain a relationship with everyone but feels she should be the one we spend Christmas with as she has done nothing wrong and has no other family-her in-laws live in another country. I feel torn.

What are your views-can you give me any guidance?

[lever.]

I am posting here for a different perspective-I am actually a parent but I would like to have the point of view of siblings.

My eldest daughter has BPD. She has had difficulties since her early teens (suicide attempts, eating disorder, dramatic fall-outs with friends, lying). Things have improved somewhat as she has got older. She is now 33.

I have a younger daughter (3 years younger) who does not have BPD. She hold down a good job, is a caring person and has a nice husband.

My older daughter all through school interfered in her sister's friendships-told lies, caused trouble etc.

When her sister was a student she phoned her regularly threatening suicide and making her sister responsible-it caused a lot of stress.

There was also an incident of older daughter finding her sister on a site a bit like this-reading the posts and forwarding them to friends-causing her sister embarrassment.

Things did improve and both my daughters got married.

Last year my younger daughter let my older daughter borrow her lap top. The older daughter accessed her e-mail account and trawled through it, reading a lot of personal information.

The younger daughter totally lost it, said she has had enough and has gone no contact with her sister. She says that this is self-preservation.

Last Christmas she refused to be with her sister at Christmas and I told older daughter she couldn't spend Christmas with us.

This obviously upset her and it nearly cost me contact with my grndchildren.

I am now speaking to everyone again and I am seeing my grandchildren. Younger daughter understands that I wish to see older daughter and grandchildren

However as the festive season approaches so do awkward situations.

Both sisters now wish not to see each other. Younger daughter understands I wish to maintain a relationship with everyone but feels she should be the one we spend Christmas with as she has done nothing wrong and has no other family-her in-laws live in another country. I feel torn.

What are your views-can you give me any guidance?

[lever.]

  P.S.

Reading this it sounds very negative about my older daughter-she has overcome a lot of problems and I understand that she is unwell. I care about both my daughters.

[beatup]

maybe you could spend Christmas Eve with one daughter & Christmas Day with the other?

[SlyQQ]

You could throw the balls in the air and see where they land tell younger sister that she knows her elder sister can have bouts of unwellness and she knows she sometimes she cant be trusted and if she leant her the laptop or anything there is always the possobility of serious and negative repercussions and that you prefer not to be put in the middle ( something your younger daughter effectively seems to have done so hopefully no great trauma about this) Tell the older sister what she did was wrong an that her sister deserves an apology (something that may well not be forthcoming) that you are all family and christmas is coming up something you would like if they could all spend together After testing the water like this with apropriate twitches to make it work for you see if it opens any way forward 

[beatup]

When my parents were living, my uBPDsis & I always spent Christmas together. I think she was afraid to make them angry or hurt or for them to disapprove(fear of rejection) Since they have passed, we have not spent a single Christmas together(7yrs.) I suspect she didn't want to spend it with me all those years but she did tough it out for their sake.

  so I agree with SlyQQ ... .

[beatup]

When my parents were living, my uBPDsis & I always spent Christmas together. I think she was afraid to make them angry or hurt or for them to disapprove(fear of rejection) Since they have passed, we have not spent a single Christmas together(7yrs.) I suspect she didn't want to spend it with me all those years but she did tough it out for their sake.

  so I agree with SlyQQ ... .

sorry this posted twice

[Edgewood]

Hi lever,

I can see why you feel torn.  You ARE being torn.

When a person sets boundaries (no contact or otherwise), you either have to respect them or be a victim of them yourself.  You don't have to support or encourage their boundaries, but I think it's REALLY important to respect them.  Luckily, they both have the same boundary this year, which is not to see each other.

As you saw last year, though, picking one daughter over the other will cause hurt feelings.  I'm sure it would have been the same if you had spent last Christmas with your older daughter.  Actually, I think it was pretty big of your older daughter to have moved beyond it, so that you are all speaking again. You will have to be careful to not let anyone make you choose between them again.

I agree with beatup's first post about trying to have two celebrations. I think you’re going to have to make it clear to both of them that you love them equally and that you will not choose sides.  Sibling rivalry is tough enough without emotional instabilities, so pay attention to be sure that THEY aren't putting you in a position where you have to choose.  It will be less convenient to see them separately, but YOU NEED TO CELEBRATE WITH BOTH OF THEM (and their families).

It concerns me that your youngest daughter thinks she should be the one to spend Christmas with you.  Her reasons are irrelevant.  The point is for you to NOT HAVE TO CHOOSE.  I think you can expect her to continue having this expectation that you favor her in other areas, too.  I think you already know this and, perhaps, are a bit put off by it.  That’s okay; she’s not being reasonable about this.  We siblings of pwBPD frequently have watched our parental figures give far more attention to the “problem children” than they give us; sometimes, we hold resentments that create relationship difficulties, too.  :)o not allow her to force you to choose between your daughters.

[Daliah]

Giving both adult children equal consideration when one has been walked over for years on end by the other doesn't actually seem fair to me.

I can understand your younger daughter, who may be willing to compromise to some degree for your sake - as in, she's willing to understand that you want to maintain contact with your older daughter, too. But she could well be at the end of her rope and unwilling to negotiate any more compromises for the sake of giving her older sister a 1,823th chance, and her asking that you spend Christmas with her could be signalling that.

Also, how objective are you really? You just about said that your older daughter is blackmailing you with the threat of denying you access to her children, your grandchildren, if you don't comply with her wishes. That doesn't sound much like she's on the path to recovery, and it does seem to be swaying you towards complying with her wishes again. Are you more willing to comply with the child that dishes out the weightier threat? Because that will almost always the the pwBPD, and it will come at the expense of nons.

As a survivor of dysfunctional family dynamics, I wouldn't be interested in a clean slate now, even if it could be offered (and I would be very surprised if it ever could!). It would be me who would have to 'get over' everything that was done to me. The aggressors suffered no injury. Equal consideration under unequal circumstances is not fairness.

As for it being an illness... .it is also not brain damage. PwBPD do possess agency. Being proactively mean (you gave examples) doesn't just happen - that takes resolve. Of course it has consequences. One of those is not being given the same consideration that others who have behaved themselves and have been hurt, repeatedly, are given.

I am in no way surprised at your younger daughters actions and demand. And I think that treating everyone equally is just not an option anymore at this point, unless you want to put your younger daughter second.

[lever.]

Thank-you everyone for your responses-a lot to consider.

I have also had good advice on the parent's board. Most advice is that this is not my argument and remain neutral, however I think Daliah has summed up exactly how my younger daughter feels.

Last year I felt I had little choice as the argument happened two days before Christmas and I was put firmly on the spot.

I felt as if my older daughter had been looking to cause a fight for two days and in any case my husband refused to let younger daughter go home.

I cannot be made to choose between my daughters but I feel bad for younger daughter. I am going to try to go for separate celebrations.

Deliah has described my dilemma-younger daughter is genuinely upset-older daughter is acting as if she doesn't care less.

Younger daughter has sent presents to her nephews and nieces for their birthdays but they have not been acknowledged.

I think if older daughter offered an apology it may move forward but she doesn't seem minded to.  

I didn't set out playing favourites but I've got into a bit of a mess here.

SlyQQ-your suggestion is a good one.

[lever.]

I have been thinking over your replies constantly. I have made a decision about my immediate problem but am worrying a lot about how to balance my relationships with my daughters in the future.

I have been soul-searching about how I handled the situation last year and whether I was unfair to my older daughter and yet Daliah's post is so strong in my mind-this could be the voice of my younger daughter.

I don't need to do anything immediately now but I think I will write down what I would like to say to each of them and work on it to improve it.

Perhaps arrive at a Support, Empathy Truth statement for each of them-ready for when it is needed. 

[TurkBoo]

This could be me.  My dad feels like he has to choose and I do everything I can to make it easier for him.  I could not agree more with Daliah.   When you are the one who has suffered and you've had enough, it's hard that the ones you still want a relationship with don't want to earn the wrath of the one with BPD, so you still suffer because they know you can handle it better.  Your younger daughter deserves to have something.  Hopefully you can help her feel loved and valued too.

[lever.]

I do try to make my younger DD also feel valued.

It is tempting sometimes to think that she will "understand" and cope better and therefore expect her to take second place.

I try not to do it but its a tightrope I'm walking. I am trying to think about my grandchildren too.

Having some feedback from siblings is very helpful.

Sooner or later there is going to be a really awkward situation-for the moment I just keep dodging bullets.

[cleotokos]

I'm unsure if my brother has BPD or not, but my mother certainly does. So take my post with that in consideration. I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with Deliah's post. As she says, there are consequences to BPD behavior. It strikes me as grossly unfair to treat them "equally".

I vote for two celebrations. I know a lot is at stake with the relationship with your daughter and grandchildren and I'm sorry for that. It is definitely something you have to weigh carefully.

[Meadowslark]

I wholeheartedly agree with Daliah's post. She hit the nail on the head here.

Boy, this could be my uBPDsis and I. Lever, I would your younger nonBPD daughter and I would be asking the same of you. I personally believe it isn't fair that your older daughter, who has caused so many problems, stress and tension in your family, is allowed to be treated the same way as the younger daughter who hasn't been a hellion. (In a way, you're rewarding bad behavior by punishing the person who hasn't done anything wrong.)

Of course, please take this with a grain of salt. I'm sadly "used to" being treated as less-than because my sister has BPD and has been manipulating the family for 20 years. I was expected to "understand" and be "compassionate" where really, I was being deprived of attention, consideration and value. Nobody really worried about me or cared what I thought because I was a functional human being. No matter what problems I was having on my own, I was expected to figure it out while my sister caused one disaster after another, all while having the spotlight and "all eyes on her".

On the one hand, I understand from the parental perspective that sometimes you have to "rely" on one of your children to "understand" the problems the other child is causing/having. But please consider how invalidated and quite possibly worthless your younger daughter probably feels.

I also vote for two celebrations. There's more to your situation than there is to mine (no grandchildren involved) but I'm sure your youngest would feel so much more valued if she had a celebration with you to call her own, without her hellion sister looming over everything and making her miserable.

[lever.]

Thank-you everyone for your replies-you have given me a lot to think about.

I have decided in favor of separate celebrations. I have time now to take on board your opinions and prepare myself before a really difficult situation comes up. Thank-you.

[Anna Butterfly]

Hi Lever-

As a sibling of a younger sister with BPD, I totally agree with the separate holiday option.  Like your younger daughter, I was subjected to blame for a suicide attempt and blackmailed with photos of my sister's self-harm when I stood up for myself.  I have children of my own now and I can't subject my kids to more of the same treatment from their aunt, I felt I had to distance myself from my sibling for my own protection and the protection of my family.  I have panic attacks when there is the possibility of being in the same room as my sister, I just can't do it anymore.  My parents do not know the extent of the psychological fallout I've had from my interactions with her over the last two decades, they just expect me to put up with it.

I would never want to put my mom in a position to choose, but I do have the right to protect myself.  Both my parents unleashed holy hell when I put my foot down and wanted separate holiday celebrations, telling me I was ripping the family apart, and how much I was hurting them- they even refused to spend holiday time with us.  So I was supposed to bring my kids to witness an unstable woman who regularly threatened physical harm to herself if I don't give into her demands?  Who could have burned the kitchen down throwing a fit at Thanksgiving when she threw paper towels on the stove, screamed, and stormed off?  Who OD'd and passed out on the dining room table at Christmas?  I totally agree with Dahlia and Meadowlark- your younger daughter needs her time with you too, where she isn't subjected to her sister's antics.  It does make me feel completely worthless to my parents when they try to coerce me into being around my sister because they think I'm strong and "I can handle it".  I can't handle it, it hurts me, and I'm not doing it anymore.  I have almost no relationship left with my parents, after their many rounds of punishment for distancing myself from my sister.

At the same time I do love my sister and I don't want her to be alone for the holidays- I want my parents to see her and enjoy their time together.  I would have really appreciated separate celebrations or even alternating years if two visits on the same day are not possible due to logistics.  I think it's very kind of you to ask for siblings' opinions- its apparent you love both your daughters very much and are trying to do what's best in a very difficult situation.  I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this; holidays can be very difficult.

-Anna

[deux soeurs]

lever, I am not going to tell you what I think you should do, but, this story is striking a cord with me.  I am the younger sister with older sis/borderline/wreaking havoc on our family my whole life.  She has crossed so many boundaries against me, my kids, my parents  I just can not write it all.  Here is the thing, as the daughter that does not have those issues, I was constantly being punished not only by my sister, but my parents always gave in to her when we were children, as, they did not know what to do with her.  My mom passed away 10 years ago bu,t she apologized... VALIDATED me.  It made such a difference.  She acknowledged I was a good kid etc. and sister had serious mental health issues.  My dad recently has too.  I choose and stand by no contact with her as she is toxic and has no respect for personal boundaries.  Perhaps if you just validate your daughter and try to come up with a solution together so she feels you acknowledge how hard it has been for her.  I know as mom it is awful to have to your family split, but it is also hard for the children involved... .we have been victim to the borderline as well.

[funfunctional]

People with the mental illnesses manage to really cause problems in families and often destroy them.   Do what you need to do to keep the peace around the holidays as my experience is the drama will never be enough and until every other person in the family is suffering from their issues they are still not happy.

They are dividers and that is exactly what has happened.

Often the matriac or patriac in the family is the uniter or the glue.    Since we have lost the glue in our family it has fallen apart almost single handedly to my BPD sister.

I don't know if I am helping here.  Geesh.    Hang in there.  Don't take the bait.    Stay calm and try to enjoy the holidays.    I think going one place and then another sounds like a plan

 

[lever.]

I am very grateful to you all for your responses, I hesitated to post on a different board but you have`been very helpful.

I will try to validate my younger daughter where I can-and also my older daughter where it is appropriate.

I think I AM the glue-everyone else is out of patience with BPD daughter-they feel that she can control her behavior when she wants to.

I find it very difficult to keep things in balance but will keep on trying.

Younger daughter would really like the Christmas day slot but we have decided on inviting one just before Christmas and one just after.

[Edgewood]

lever, I can tell that you have really agonized with this.  Your kids are both lucky to have such a caring mother.

Remember to make some of these decisions based on what YOU want and what's best for YOU.  Don't spend all your energy balancing on behalf of everyone else; that's their job.

[funfunctional]

Yes... .she really is a caring mom!       

[lever.]

Now you are making me cry ! 

[Barbara Smith]

It has been good reading this string.  The thing I am most concerned about after going NC with my sisters, is my mom.  I know she'd like us to "make up".  I am glad that my mom has a relationship with my sisters.  As crazy as they are, I love them, I just can't handle their treatment of me.  It sounds like you have made a great decision and that you are very caring.  Have a wonderful Christmas.

[freemeee]

Even if you comply with the older daughter there still may be the risk of there still being a problem.  Remember BPDs can create chaos out the most well intentioned effort.  I'm with everyone else your daughters are both blessed to have a mom like you.  My mother for the first time this year is not doing dinner at all, because my others sisters never pitch in.  My sister called to ask could her family come over and my mother do all the cooking.  My mother was like not this Christmas.  I feel so relieved for my family.  Like there are 3 generations of folks tired of my sister and she's not that old.