Find yourself struggling with friendships?

[Change2014]

Hi there, for someone reason lately I have been re-assessing my friendships.  I have had some hurtful things happen lately, and I have basically hit my limit with some friends.  I am wondering if any of you also struggle with friendships?  I struggle with having my needs met and I struggle with expressing my needs.  I think I give people maybe too many chances and that I don't see the friendship for what it is and move on, I tend to second-guess myself and give way too many chances, to the point that I feel like I am invisible.  This is a painful process.  I wonder if my exposure to a uBPD parent has impacted me on how I approach friendships.  I know that I need to take ownership for the state of these relationships.  I just have such a hard time moving on or for recognizing them for what they are.  Anyone else feel the same?  It is hard enough dealing with an emotionally absent parent, and then to realize that friendships are flawed is just overwhelming. 

[Kwamina]

I wonder if my exposure to a uBPD parent has impacted me on how I approach friendships. I know that I need to take ownership for the state of these relationships.  I just have such a hard time moving on or for recognizing them for what they are.  Anyone else feel the same?  It is hard enough dealing with an emotionally absent parent, and then to realize that friendships are flawed is just overwhelming.  

Hi Change2014

I was raised by an uBPD mom myself and in my case it has definitely had a great impact on how I interact with others and approach relationships. There are several layers to this. One thing I've come to realize is that I have learned and/or developed some basically not so healthy behaviors and coping skills when it comes to dealing with people. Another thing is that as a result of growing up in an environment with uBPD family-members, I got a twisted view of what normal behavior looks like. This has caused me to expect certain types of behavior not only from my uBPD relatives, but also from others because I believed that was normal behavior. Now I know it wasn't normal at all but when you grow up in such an environment and it's all you know, it's difficult to really get a good notion of what 'normal' or healthy behavior looks like.

Another thing I  have come to realize is that people raised by uBPD parents often tend to seek out friends and relationship partners that actually also exhibit BPD traits. Not because the BPD behavior is really what they like but more because it's what they know and are used to. You could say that this type behavior feels more comfortable and safe because you're familiar with it and know what to expect. Healthy relationships can actually feel unsafe and cause anxiety because it's so totally not like what you're used to. Sometimes we even seek out people that behave similarly to our uBPD parents to prove to ourselves that our parents were wrong about us. If we could get this new person to love us and treat us right, in some way it would be like we were finally able to get the love and attention we always wanted from our parents but usually never got from them. Unfortunately this approach seldom works and we end up recreating in our friendships and relationships the drama we experienced as a child with our uBPD parents.

Do you feel like any of these things might also apply to your situation and that this might at least partly explain what's going on in your friendships?

[ElvisLives]

I am wondering if any of you also struggle with friendships?  I struggle with having my needs met and I struggle with expressing my needs.  I think I give people maybe too many chances and that I don't see the friendship for what it is and move on, I tend to second-guess myself and give way too many chances, to the point that I feel like I am invisible.  This is a painful process.  I wonder if my exposure to a uBPD parent has impacted me on how I approach friendships.  I know that I need to take ownership for the state of these relationships.  I just have such a hard time moving on or for recognizing them for what they are.  Anyone else feel the same?  It is hard enough dealing with an emotionally absent parent, and then to realize that friendships are flawed is just overwhelming. 

I have struggled for a long time with friendships.  I'm in my 40's now and just starting on my road to healing from all this.

I never feel very close to people or I second guess what they're thinking... .I used to have high levels of paranoia but I worked hard to get rid of that and it's barely there now.

I had one or two close friends... .and I mean REALLY good friends, but with other people I always felt like I didn't fit in with them... .or I couldn't be genuine with them.

But of course, that's all an idea or impression that I've grown up with and I know it to be false.

I am trying to be real these days and I am also comfortable that if people don't like me, it's nothing 'personal' per se... it's just that we don't gel.  Not everyone can like you.  You can't like everyone.

On the other hand, it's made me very tolerant and perhaps too tolerant of inviting people into my life who have a lot of issues.  I've accepted friendships at all costs and I went against my gut ... .

Turns out these people have deep issues of their own... .and so I've had to really reassess why I am inviting people in and why... .and whether I'm genuinely interested in them as friends or whether I am simply inviting them in because I feel I should, or because I feel sorry for them.

I've had a BPD friend but she was drawn to me, not me to her, but I allowed her to stay.  She ended up stalking me and I had to use the law to keep her away.  Was she attracted to me because she felt I would accept her craziness?  Perhaps.

These days, I am open and I trust my gut.

I'm working hard on it... .and it's working.

[Ziggiddy]

Hi Change,

well maybe there's something in the air because I feel EXACTLY like you! i wish I'd read this before I posted as i posted quite similar feelings.

Kwamina:

Healthy relationships can actually feel unsafe and cause anxiety because it's so totally not like what you're used to.

whoah! Hold the phone! What a great piece of insight. I am reeling from that. Interesting notion. I am going to think on that.

I struggle with having my needs met and I struggle with expressing my needs.

I think I give people maybe too many chances and that I don't see the friendship for what it is and move on, I tend to second-guess myself and give way too many chances, to the point that I feel like I am invisible. 

This is a painful process.

I just have such a hard time moving on or for recognizing them for what they are. 

It is hard enough dealing with an emotionally absent parent, and then to realize that friendships are flawed is just overwhelming. 

I am no expert but I have been thinking on (read: obsessing on!) these same things in the past few days. reading over some old diaries has made me very uncomfortable with the way I allowed 'friends' to treat me and how very high my tolerance was to bad behaviour. I am, like you, finding it hard to trust my perceptions but I will say this much - I am willing to practise and fail. It doesn't take that many great friends to make me happy so I am willing to try. If I make bad choices, hopefully I will learn from them.

Change, you are having to relearn what most kids learn when they're little - how to be a good friend and how to have a good friend. Back then you should have had a great parent to guide you and warn you and hold your hand and help you. So you are not only doing this without that proper help but with the years of pain and neglect in the way.

You are also having to do it without the good example of a healthy parent who should have taught you by modelling good friendships but I doubt you had that either, did you?

It IS a risky business but I am sure you are capable of it. Much more so than you were before you really grasped what the effects of your parent's disorder was on you. I guess the questions I would ask is what plan would you have to assess a person for suitability of friendship? And what goals do you really have in being/having a friend? What would you like to have within your friendships?

Look forward to hearing your thoughts. And now I will go and think about the same things myself!

Ziggiddy

[HappyChappy]

I wonder if my exposure to a uBPD parent has impacted me on how I approach friendships.

Almost definately, it effects us. The gas lighting can make us “over sensitive” to comments. The lack of loyalty and love BPD display, can make us have unrealistic expectations on what a normal relationship should look like, or as you put it “not see the relationship for what it is”. The list goes on. And yes, BPD worked hard to put us in our place, so we may still be running away (metaphorically) from people and places.

Also BPD work hard to pull our self esteem down, which may lead to us thinking we’re not worth being someone’s friend. So the good news is, more than likely if we build our self esteem and mix with normal people to get a bit of reality, making friends can only get easier. Also if you were the scapegoat, never forget that you more than likely were undervalued by others – but that again can change for the better. Consider me a friend. 

[claireNew]

On the other hand, it's made me very tolerant and perhaps too tolerant of inviting people into my life who have a lot of issues.  I've accepted friendships at all costs and I went against my gut ... .

Turns out these people have deep issues of their own... .and so I've had to really reassess why I am inviting people in and why... .and whether I'm genuinely interested in them as friends or whether I am simply inviting them in because I feel I should, or because I feel sorry for them.

I've had a BPD friend but she was drawn to me, not me to her, but I allowed her to stay.  She ended up stalking me and I had to use the law to keep her away.  Was she attracted to me because she felt I would accept her craziness?  Perhaps.

Hi ElvisLives, I also had an uBPD friend and I've decided to stop the friendship.

Now I have a new roommate. We are good friends. Again I do a lot to meet her needs. I change my routine to match her schedule. Maybe I am trying to prove that the last friendship's failure is not my fault. If I could get on well this new roommate, I will kind of have changed the history.

Maybe my over-enthusiastic friendship has brought pressure to my roommate. I need to make a clear boundary.

Glad to see similar experiences.

[Change2014]

Thank you everyone for responding.

Kwamina - I think my problem is that I am letting people choose me rather than the other way around.  And people with issues apparently are drawn to me.  Maybe I have issues too.  LOL.  Anyway, I used to do the same thing with dating, but luckily married a wonderful and mentally healthy man.  But with friendships I think I have sort of settled and let people choose me.  And yeah, I guess sometimes healthy relationships didn't feel exciting or I think I felt like I needed instant intimacy.  I almost feel more comfortable with people that just jump right in and want to be close friends quickly.  I let that just take over, instead of hitting the brakes and taking my time.  I am not sure that healthy relationships feel unsafe, I think it is that they don't feel close enough.  I think maybe I have unrealistic expectations of closeness because I grew up being enmeshed with my mom.  So, I think sometimes I long for a friendship like that that can fill that void.  And then other times I allow people in my life that sort of just come in and out and I give more than I receive.  It is just sort of unbalanced.  Almost like I am too tolerant. 

Elvislives - I relate to a lot of what you said about closeness and feeling paranoid.  Sometimes I am paranoid but then other times I go against my gut instinct and then I am wishing I listened to my gut.  It is like I can't trust myself.  Like you, I think I do a lot to meet other people's needs.  It is just more comfortable that way.  Like with friends, I feel more comfortable driving to meet them rather than them coming to me.  It is like I feel uncomfortable if they go out of their way for me.  And I am trying to reverse that because then it is an unbalanced relationship.  I think I feel like the success of the relationship rests on me, like I am the one who needs to make it right.  I take way too much responsibility for the relationships and for how the other person feels. 

Ziggidy - You raise a really good point.  I never did have a role model show me what a healthy friendship looks like.  My uBPD mom cut people off pretty quickly and doesn't have any close friends.  She keeps people at such a distance and when someone upset her, she just cut them off.  So, yeah, I never learned how to ask for my needs to be met with a friend or to talk a problem out with a friend.  I am trying to learn some of that now.  Also, trying to learn to have realistic expectations.  I think as far as a close friend I am really looking for someone that is willing to make time for me as I am for them.  And I have realized that several of those people I considered good/close friends haven't done that in awhile even though I have reached out time and again.  And I think I have to just move on.  I am tired of feeling invisible or getting the message that I don't matter.  And then one of these friends reaches out to me when she really needs to talk, but when I need her she is busy or wants to chat on the fly.  She can't really be present for me.  Well, she can, she just chooses not to.  So, I guess I am trying to tune into how I feel around people and honor that.  I think I also have to be willing to be a little vulnerable with people that I am not necessarily "close" to yet, to be more approachable and for the relationship to grow. 

Thanks HappyChappy!    I know I am quite sensitive and I have to remind myself to let things go.  But then I let too much go.  I am trying to find a happy medium where I am not over-sensitive but also don't get walked on.  LOL.

     

[funfunctional]

Hi Change,

My friendships have changed throughout my life.  I find that I simply can't identify with some of the same people from years ago.  I have changed.   I feel that as we raise our own awareness & grow as human beings we suddenly find ourselves needing to add some new friends that share the same ideas about life.   Perhaps you are finding yourself needing that?

FunF

[DancerDeferred]

Another thing I  have come to realize is that people raised by uBPD parents often tend to seek out friends and relationship partners that actually also exhibit BPD traits. Not because the BPD behavior is really what they like but more because it's what they know and are used to. You could say that this type behavior feels more comfortable and safe because you're familiar with it and know what to expect. Healthy relationships can actually feel unsafe and cause anxiety because it's so totally not like what you're used to. Sometimes we even seek out people that behave similarly to our uBPD parents to prove to ourselves that our parents were wrong about us. If we could get this new person to love us and treat us right, in some way it would be like we were finally able to get the love and attention we always wanted from our parents but usually never got from them. Unfortunately this approach seldom works and we end up recreating in our friendships and relationships the drama we experienced as a child with our uBPD parents.

I just wanted to take a moment and totally agree with Kwamina.  I have trouble with friendships, too.  I either find some great normal people and then avoid them at all costs or I find someone with the characteristics of my BPDm and re-enact different dramas- mostly related to food and food behaviors.  I'm sorry about your issues with friends and I can completely relate, Change.  I don't have any advice but it's comforting to know that we aren't alone.  I hope you find a way through it!

[sea5045]

Yes hello... .I have been free and clear of my  ex for two years, and much of the pain and self doubt are gone, but now I have tried on friendships and some have the same dynamics, sometimes I feel paranoia and need extra reassurance that people are "there" for me, loyal, etc when that may just be too much work for people trying to be friendly... anyway yes I am struggling in that I don't know what to do to just relax and enjoy the ride... .

[Dexter0420]

I grew up with an uBPDm who has only maintained 3 friendships in my 40+ years. As a result I never felt the need to maintain friendships either, even with really good healthy people. I think now that I thought they would eventually hurt me or that I didn't deserve them.

I finally started taking an inventory through therapy and just this year finally got a facebook account. I know that sounds funny, but putting myself out there  like that was really scary. But it has been hugely beneficial. I have reconnected with friends I haven't talked to in years and have made some really great new ones. I'm learning I am a good person despite what my mother thinks and people truly like me. That still makes me a little uncomfortable but it gets easier everyday.

Good luck with your journey.

[funfunctional]

Nice!  ((Dexter))

And isn't life so much better knowing you are a good person & loved.    Those people you have reconnected with really aren't all that bad.  I totally get that comment.

[Panda39]

Hi Change,

My friendships have changed throughout my life.  I find that I simply can't identify with some of the same people from years ago.  I have changed.   I feel that as we raise our own awareness & grow as human beings we suddenly find ourselves needing to add some new friends that share the same ideas about life.   Perhaps you are finding yourself needing that?

FunF

I was thinking the same thing sometimes it's gaining a new maturity, sometimes it's entering a new phase of life like becoming a parent, it could be developing a new interest, a change in philosophy, or learning something new.  I think we drop and add new people in our lives as we ourselves change and evolve.

What I love about all of the people on this site is that everyone is trying to learn.  Learn to have better relationships, learn to love ourselves more, learn better wiser ways to negotiate life and the people in our lives but all of this creates change in us and some of the less healthy people in our lives are not going to be able to accept that change.  While new people will be interested in coming into our lives because of those very changes.

[Change2014]

So, I've been thinking more lately about this concept of friendship and why I find it so difficult and I think I figured out a bit the cause for myself. So, as a BPD my mom is very judgmental.  She will cut people off very quickly.  If they commit one offense, she is done.  She also judges people very quickly, and finds character flaws and holds it against the person.  I think I have reacted to her by going in the opposite direction.  I don't want to be judgmental and so I give people many chances or I ignore my gut feeling or I feel badly for making a snap judgment.  The problem is... .sometimes you have to make judgments and trust your gut... .and I think I just repeat the same mistakes because 1) I strive to not be judgmental and open to the extreme and 2) I don't trust myself.  So, then I get faced with sometimes people that might not be great friends or just not compatible friends and instead of moving on, I stay in a rut. 

[Kwamina]

I think I have reacted to her by going in the opposite direction.  I don't want to be judgmental and so I give people many chances or I ignore my gut feeling or I feel badly for making a snap judgment.  The problem is... .sometimes you have to make judgments and trust your gut... .and I think I just repeat the same mistakes because 1) I strive to not be judgmental and open to the extreme and 2) I don't trust myself.  So, then I get faced with sometimes people that might not be great friends or just not compatible friends and instead of moving on, I stay in a rut.  

This is very interesting. I think you raise a very valid point here. Many children of BPD parents might tell themselves that when they grow up they wanna be nothing like their BPD parent. This might indeed have caused you to go to the other extreme.

Were you perhaps (in the past) also told by others that you resembled your mother in appearance or behavior? If so, this could also be a reason for you to try as hard as you can to be as different from your mother as possible.

When you say you don't trust yourself, do you mean you don't trust yourself to make the right judgments of people and situations? Could it be that this is something you were repeatedly told as child and as a result got ingrained into your mind? I myself have often struggled with a negative inner voice bringing me down. Basically it was me repeating the negative things to myself that others had said to me. Learning to talk back to that inner critic is very important for our continued healing. Would you say that you find yourself struggling with a negative inner voice?