Intimacy, 'my bubble vs your bubble'

[Crumbling]

BPDh and I had a productive conversation the other day.

He wanted sex and I was really having a hard time getting into the right head space, even though I knew it would be good for both of us, if only he would respect a certain boundary I've been attempting to enforce in the bedroom.  Since I've set the boundary, my neutered cat gets into more action than we have... .anyway... .I got into a description of how I felt that helped open his eyes, and I thought I'd share it.

I told him that I feel like he has this 'intimacy bubble' around him of what turns him on and feels good for him, just like I have a bubble around me of what turns me on.  When I reach into his bubble, and do the things that live there, he feels uplifted and aroused, satisfied and validated from knowing someone loves him enough to willingly reached into his bubble.  He agreed that it did feel that way.

Then I pointed out that because of his BPD, he doesn't willing, or naturally, reach into my bubble.  That over time, it's now evolved into me not being able to reach into his bubble anymore.  When I do, I feel used, because I rarely, if ever, get to feel like someone loves me enough to reach into my bubble.

Of course, I had to inject: I'm not mad, and I don't blame you, and I'm just accepting your disorder, etc; regularly here and there in the conversation to shield off any dysregulation on his part. 

But the end result was that we did have sex, and he did work at reaching into my bubble far better and with more understanding than I have ever seen in him before.  And he respected my boundary!

 

VICTORY!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 Nice work... !

What are you going to do to keep momentum going in the right direction.

[believer55]

I know that feeling lately - I think I am going to use this analogy (when we start talking agin - )

[Crumbling]

What are you going to do to keep momentum going in the right direction.

no clue... .we've both avoided the topic ever since... .

[formflier]

 

So... .are you going to talk about it during dinner tonight... .or have a "special session" right after dinner?   

[Crumbling]

HA, you're funny!  I wish it were that simple.

First, nothing can be planned ahead, because everything depends on his mood when he comes home from work.  I guess I could plan, and cancel plans if his mood isn't right for it, but that means more failed expectations and disappointment on my end - something I'm fed up with feeling.

Secondly... .I've set a boundary, one he doesn't really like, but did respect the last time we made love.  To push him to have sex again, I feel like I'm putting myself in a place where he can say, you want it, okay, but it's on my terms this time.  I'm not ready for that.  Having sex 2 or 3 times my way does not cancel out the approx 5,823.7 times we've done it his way.     

All he sees is last time it was my way, so this time is his way.  We've been down this road before.  This is the part I don't know how to get past. 

[formflier]

Can you "do it" (yeah... I was going there... .) both ways in the same event... the same evening?

As we get to know each other on here... .right now I have the Beavis and B@tthead laugh going on in my head... .   

Tell you what... .why don't you "plan" an interesting dinner... .something out of left field.  Maybe even give him a menu he can open up. 

Hint:  Make sure you are on the menu... . 

OK... .spend some time thinking about you and thinking about forgiveness.  Who needs to be forgiven... and for what.  Please come back and post.  Sometimes identifying where the forgiveness and grace needs to be applied is the hardest part... . 

If you feel comfortable describing what you don't like about the way "he wants it"... .please do so.  Sometimes writing it out... ."saying it"... vice keeping it inside is helpful.

Oh... .and back to my "both ways in one night" thought... .  I'll go first.  Last night I made sure that my wife was totally and fully taken care of before I started any intercourse.  We don't always do it that way... .but it is common.  Then... .I got happy.  Then... .we did round 2 for her... .  Then we drifted off to sleep together.  Was really nice.  See my other post today... there was some grumpiness earlier.

So... .I hope that was clear... without being too graphic.  Intimacy is sensitive topic... .but hopefully one we can continue to discuss here without being "crass"

[Crumbling]

Well, it's all very complicated really... .what he wants is the exact thing I experienced during my childhood abuse.  Like I mentioned before, I've gone through counselling, and it was because of this issue.  I've done great at being able to apply the tools to be able to engage in this activity, until about a year ago, I guess.  Now, it feels like my body rejects the whole notion of this activity and I if I engage, I disassociate, and then it's game over.  All I feel is intense rage. 

But that's not all... .

The reason I have allowed myself to engage in this activity at all with by BPDh is because he 'has had ED his whole life', and this activity helps him 'overcome' that issue.  I am a kind, understanding wife... .so I used the tools I was given.

My problem right now, I think, is that I worked for years at helping him overcome his issues, and it NEVER gets reciprocated.  I'm sick of not having my issues be a valid reason for HIM to engage in some of the things that would help me.  I feel invalidated.  And used.  And like a piece of garbage... .I'm done with being neglected.  If I can't have it my way, I don't want it.


um, so ya, no, I don't think I can "do it" both ways in the same evening... .not today.   

[Crumbling]

I'm really glad to hear you two made amends, and your evening went so well!  We need to remember to share the good times, too.

[Crumbling]

 Forgiveness, you're right, that's a hard one... .I know I need to forgive him for being selfish.  Maybe I need to forgive myself for allowing it to get to this point... .I'm mad at God for putting me in this predicament... .

[Crumbling]

Sorry for the short posts, this is the last one   in this string, anyway... .

The best for last... .The "Menu" - I love this idea.   

I love romancing him.  It's so much fun!  We have many options, not just his or mine, and I do keep trying to remind myself of this.  In my experience, if I put ANY pressure on him to make it happen, it doesn't happen.  But your menu idea allows me to ' resent it' without pressure.  I love it!

You have inspired me to prepare something nice, whatever it is, for when he gets home.  He went to bed two nights in a row while there was still beer in the fridge.  That's a first in this house.  He deserves to be rewarded... .somehow... .

[Moselle]

if I put ANY pressure on him to make it happen, it doesn't happen.  But your menu idea allows me to 'present it' without pressure.  I love it!

I can relate to this Crumbling. I think its around performance anxiety and the risk of failing in some way.

If i initiate anything I'm told she doesn't trust me and must earn back that trust first. This is punishment for abandoning her in a 10 month separation.

Of course that doesn't stop her from initiating on a frequency of about once per month. And it's not intimate. I just fulfil a physical need for her.

I said "no" last time because it was just after a serious dysregulation and I was still very angry. She was so upset I ended up participating. It's just a mess, and I'm not sure what to do about it.

On the positive side she shared an article with me today about being a caring, unconditionally loving parent who encourages without punishing.  The desire is there at least. I'm just waiting for her to realise that it also applies to her husband and that modelling the right behaviours does more for children than talking about them.

[formflier]

I'm really glad to hear you two made amends, and your evening went so well!  We need to remember to share the good times, too.

Totally agree!  I want to be an open book about my struggles... .because I need help there... .I need perspective from those that are not "in the moment" with me.

I also want to help give hope to the staying board... .because my life is tremendously better... .and I believe over the next year it will continue to get better.!

[formflier]

On the positive side she shared an article with me today about being a caring, unconditionally loving parent who encourages without punishing.  The desire is there at least. I'm just waiting for her to realise that it also applies to her husband and that modelling the right behaviours does more for children than talking about them.

Any chance you can surprise her... .take her

out for dinner... .make sure and have two copies of the article... .pens... highlighters... .stuff like that.

Thank her for the article and discuss it.  If she doesn't get to the point of realizing... .it applies to her... .I'm thinking you directly ask her... .

":)o you think that this can be applied to our marriage... ?"

If she avoids... .and asks you... .tell her your side... .but don't suggest for her... .

If she still plays dumb after you have laid your heart out there... .I would ask her if she wants to reciprocate the feelings and actions in the r/s? 

Good luck!

[formflier]

Well, it's all very complicated really... .what he wants is the exact thing I experienced during my childhood abuse.  

Have you counseled about this jointly?

You both have "individual issues" that required some gentleness and care... .

[Moselle]

my life is tremendously better... .and I believe over the next year it will continue to get better.!

This is quite some achievement formflier. I recognise the efforts and strength needed to get to this point.  

[formflier]

This is quite some achievement formflier. I recognise the efforts and strength needed to get to this point.  

Yep... .I am happy... .but I have expended a tremendous amount of energy... .into this.

Also have "given up" quite a bit of money or let my wife control quite a bit... .for now.  In order to get some things to a better place.

That's still on this list to work on later... .money is a bit low on my priority list.

[Moselle]

On the positive side she shared an article with me today about being a caring, unconditionally loving parent who encourages without punishing.  The desire is there at least. I'm just waiting for her to realise that it also applies to her husband and that modelling the right behaviours does more for children than talking about them.

Any chance you can surprise her... .take her

out for dinner... .make sure and have two copies of the article... .pens... highlighters... .stuff like that.

Thank her for the article and discuss it.  If she doesn't get to the point of realizing... .it applies to her... .I'm thinking you directly ask her... .

":)o you think that this can be applied to our marriage... ?"

If she avoids... .and asks you... .tell her your side... .but don't suggest for her... .

If she still plays dumb after you have laid your heart out there... .I would ask her if she wants to reciprocate the feelings and actions in the r/s? 

Good luck!

This is the third article now. One thing I confronted in front of the MC on Tuesday was that she had apologised 2 months ago to D14 for affecting her self esteem (W is very aware of how her parents have affected hers negatively). It was one time she kept quiet and didn't have a clever answer, so I know it's touched a deep regret. We also agreed in that same meeting with D14 that we wouldn't show open conflict in front of her - ever. She has not kept that commitment.  

I have suggested we keep a marriage journal to track our progress. It may be a good way to document our commitments to eachother through these articles, and be selectively open with the children about what we are trying to do on the parenting front.

Tomorrow is the first of our two day commitment to keep eachother emotionally safe. Let's see how it goes. I'm hoping she can do something positive that I can compliment and build her up with. Those moments have been rare since August. I think I'm due for a few  

[Moselle]

This is quite some achievement formflier. I recognise the efforts and strength needed to get to this point.  

Yep... .I am happy... .but I have expended a tremendous amount of energy... .into this.

Also have "given up" quite a bit of money or let my wife control quite a bit... .for now.  In order to get some things to a better place.

That's still on this list to work on later... .money is a bit low on my priority list.

I agree, its a very costly thing this BPD, in energy and money. I can't sustain it like this, so there will need to be some changes in 2015. I hope the marriage survives them.

[formflier]

 

How often do you do MC?

[Crumbling]

Have you counseled about this jointly?

You both have "individual issues" that required some gentleness and care... .

No, we've never had joint counselling.  Only individual.

[formflier]

 

Do you think joint is on the table?

If the talks can be respectful... .then maybe you can handle this outside of counseling.

But... .the issue that I'm seeing is that you empathize with his issues... .and you don't see much evidence that he empathizes with yours.

In a way... .that is the basic subject matter that my wife and I have been discussing in our counseling... .

[Crumbling]

It was one of the boundaries I set when we got married that I didn't in force.  With three failed marriages between us, I wanted us to sort out the things we needed to change to make this one work.

I did call and make an appt once, that he didn't show up for. Tried a sex therapist too, but he wouldn't go there either.  I think he may be more open to it now that he's had some T himself, but right now it isn't an option due to finances.  We've been muddling our way through talks on the subject all along.  It's the only thing we can do.