bring her back?

[reig]

As is typical we've had many breakups and reunions (breakups can last days/weeks, etc). Sometimes she calls first and sometimes I do.

A few weeks ago she annoyed me, wouldn't buy something small for me in a country where she was (where it's a lot less expensive), She was also calling me for only 5 minutes at a time. She is out of town for 2 months. She said she was working. She also attempted various jealousy games and annoyed me in other ways. It built up.

I was stressed and irritated and sent her a lengthy insulting message describing the physical/mental defects of someone with her exact details but asking "who is this" in the subject line". (my thinking at the time was that I wanted to hurt her and also push her away so that she may not want me back if I attempt contact) I told her to ___. I blocked everything before sending the message so I don't know how or if she responded. I have done similar things before but this was a little more than usual.

Then I guess, as is typical, I perceived (at that moment) that I am actually feeling worse on my own (I've been sick for 6 weeks and less social and mood has dropped) and I unblocked and attempted contact.

I emailed some pics of girls being spanked and asked "is this what you want?", "you are going to get it for disobeying and your behavior". A coupla similar other messages. And one of a girl with nude selfies asking "send me something like this".

She responded the next day "yes, that was a nice descriptoin of what you think of me, eariler; ___"

Obviously, rationally, it'd be best for me to leave it at that; on the other hand I am still hooked and have no other girl in sight so I am considering a response

she has in the past said she never wants to see me again (e.g. when I threw her out of my apartment one night). It may be true or she may just want to see if I'll put in an effort to get her back or attention seeking. I have in the past told her that I was pissed off and I'll say all kinds of things when I am upset which I don't necessarily mean.

I was considering writing a half serious/half humorous message where I write something positive about her that I "forgot" in the insulting message.

e.g.

You can be generous when you want to.

You are my favorite pet and object

I like your voice and how you scream

You know how to use a coat rack (the type used here has a phallic looking part)

I like to watch you when you dance like a stripper.

I like your hair esp when I pull it.


At the same time, her behavior in the past had the typical acting of/pretending to have a strong emotion/reaction (which is probably not felt) for manipulation, guilt inducing purposes. In that sense she might see me as weak/less attractive if I attempt to respond and explain my behavior. eg. saying thigs like I was stressed and that it's not my real opinion of her; that she also constantly attacks me and that what I did was nothing compared to her constant attempts. That I am not perfect either and maybe she could help me and improve my mood instead of running away or manipulating more as she typically does (asking for something like that is probably futile)

I often take a commanding/dominant tone in my messages and use phrases like "is that clear"?

It also occurred with me to take a humorous approach and play with her saying the message was not about her, but about another girl I was seeing that is very similar or that I mistakenly sent this to her; and then say "this is what I really think of you" and send the positive/funny opinions from above. This kind of thing amuses me but I have a strange sense of humor and she does not always get it.


I'd be curious about outside perspective on this... .PM is good too if It's something not appropriate for the thread.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[HappyNihilist]

 

Hello there, reig. You're definitely in an intense, complicated situation. I know it's not an easy place to be.

She responded the next day "yes, that was a nice descriptoin of what you think of me, eariler; f*** off"

Obviously, rationally, it'd be best for me to leave it at that; on the other hand I am still hooked and have no other girl in sight so I am considering a response

Rationally, yes, it would be best to leave it at that. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to talk to you right now. If you continue to push, you will be disrespecting her boundaries. How do you feel when she disrespects yours? Remember, this is another human who deserves the opportunity to live her life and make her own choices -- regardless of how we might feel about those choices.

You say you are still "hooked" -- it sounds like you want to be emotionally detached from her but you realize that you aren't. Continuing to engage in this dance will make it very difficult to detach. No matter how much you want to view her as an object, you can't just tell yourself to do that and poof, it happens.

You say you're considering a response in part because you "have no other girl in sight." Why is it important to have a girl in sight? Especially after such an intense, tumultuous relationship. Perhaps it might be beneficial to take some time off from relationships... .heal and focus on yourself?

This kind of thing amuses me but I have a strange sense of humor and she does not always get it.

There is cruelty and manipulation here, on both sides. I know it's easy to get caught up in the disordered games and mindset. And we get hurt, and feel vulnerable, and get defensive, and sometimes we strike back. As Salvador Dali said, "Have no fear of perfection -- you'll never reach it." We're only human.

But at some point, it has to stop. Whether or not you choose to have a r/s of any type with your ex... .this isn't healthy or fair for either of you.

And I'm saying this as a woman who enjoys a power dynamic and activities like you describe with your ex. But to have a healthy, mutually beneficial relationship of any flavor requires mutual respect, acceptance, understanding, and communication. The r/s you are describing does not have any of those things.

The two of you are playing a toxic game that is not good for either of you. The only way to end the game is to refuse to play.

[reig]

thanks for responding

yes. I'd love to be detached, but I am addicted and frustrated and have no support. It'd be much easier to detach and be less reactive if I  saw at least one other (maybe normal girl); she has multiple partners and has had them from the beginning but lied about it. As is typical, she has lined up many partners from the beginning and is less vulnerable.

When I talked about being amused, I meant abot the  humorous/positive response of which I gave an example. I don't find the competition, control, manipulation amusing. It's not pleasant.

I typically strike back only at some point when she has ovedone it and attacked me multiple times and I was not able to control myself. I never wanted to play the games; it's more about how to defend myself.

I like to dominate her sexually but I don't want all the stupidity outside of sex; it's exhausting to handle all the manipulations, games, revenge due to abandonment anxiety (every time I leave or not respond etc); it's esp difficult when she is not in town as then I have no physical control over her.

I am not concerned with her boundaries in this situation at all. She tests me and my boundaries constantly and more severely. This is nothing compared to her behavior.

Is it possible to have mutual respect, acceptance, understanding, and communication with a disordered girl and how.

[EaglesJuju]

I'd love to be detached, but I am addicted and frustrated and have no support. It'd be much easier to detach and be less reactive if I  saw at least one other (maybe normal girl); she has multiple partners and has had them from the beginning but lied about it.

I can understand how hard it is for you to detach.  Have you sought help for your addiction?

[HappyNihilist]

yes. I'd love to be detached, but I am addicted and frustrated and have no support.

These relationships definitely have an addictive quality to them. I'm sorry that you feel like you have no support. Have you considered talking to a therapist? It's incredibly helpful to have someone to help you work through these things.

It'd be much easier to detach and be less reactive if I  saw at least one other (maybe normal girl); she has multiple partners and has had them from the beginning but lied about it. As is typical, she has lined up many partners from the beginning and is less vulnerable.

Why do you equate having other partners with being "less vulnerable"? Less vulnerable in what sense?

It seems to me that having all of these partners continuously makes her unable and unwilling to look at herself and her own issues. These types of relationships serve only as distractions.

When I talked about being amused, I meant abot the  humorous/positive response of which I gave an example. I don't find the competition, control, manipulation amusing. It's not pleasant.

The manipulation and competition aren't pleasant, for sure. I'm afraid that's par for the course with these relationships, though. If it drains you and you don't like it, the best course of action is to disassociate from the r/s. It's always there, underneath the surface.

Your "humorous/positive responses" would be fine and playful in the right context -- with a foundation of trust and respect, in a stable place in the r/s -- but I don't think they would be at all helpful here.

If you want to communicate with her, you have to keep in mind that her feelings and interpretations are her reality. How is she likely to interpret those responses given your current situation?

If you don't feel like always wondering how she's going to interpret something, that's understandable... .having a r/s with a disordered person is a lot of work... .but it means that you should seriously reconsider whether or not you want to try to re-engage with her. You can't control her behavior or thoughts; she is who she is, and that will not change. You can only control yourself, and decide for yourself if this is a person whom you want in your life.

I typically strike back only at some point when she has ovedone it and attacked me multiple times and I was not able to control myself. I never wanted to play the games; it's more about how to defend myself.

I understand completely. It's only natural to fight back to try to survive when we feel attacked and vulnerable. We often take a lot before we strike back. It's important to protect ourselves, and these defensive outbursts are telling us that we've not been doing such a good job at it.

If this is a common occurrence in your r/s, then what does it tell you about that r/s?

I am not concerned with her boundaries in this situation at all. She tests me and my boundaries constantly and more severely. This is nothing compared to her behavior.

Is it possible to have mutual respect, acceptance, understanding, and communication with a disordered girl and how.

It's certainly not possible to have those things when the two of you are testing and busting each other's boundaries. There isn't respect, understanding, or acceptance on either side.

As for in general, is it possible to have these things with disordered partners? Not really. It's possible to have a working, long-term r/s with a disordered partner, but the "non" has to come to a place of radical acceptance about the pwBPD and clearly understand what the pwBPD is capable of giving and what he/she isn't. The disorder severely impairs the pwBPD's ability to achieve and sustain healthy, adult intimacy.

[reig]

thanks for replying.

Unfortunately, I now live in a poor country with very meager, if not non existent mental health  and medical support with high stigma attached.

Less vulnerable in the sense that she has more 'power' in the relationship and can run to the fan club (I see her as more histrionic or what used to be described as HPD though maybe there are traits of several Cluster B disorders) if she's upset with me, and at the same time taunt me/take revenge for any imagined thing that I have done to her (really it's more of an excuse to be promiscuous and exploit multiple partners at the same time).

Of course she is vulnerable (theoretically) in the sense that you describe distracting herself from her emptiness, etc. However she is not self aware and does not want to change.


Yes, I am too sensitive and reactive to handle her and it's causing me stress. I am also under huge stress from elsewhere, too. If I did not have stress coming at me from all other sides, maybe I would be able to handle it.

In the first year during idealization we did ok. Then I moved to live with 2 disordered parents (I thought it' be temporary but they lied to me; they were just trying to enmesh me with their crap) and she started devaluing me and crazy making at about the same time (it started I think when I did not respond to her for 3 days because I was out of town and my phone was off; I did not even know about disorders at the time). I am sick a lot which is lowering my mood; a serious illness may have recurred.

It's very difficult to predict or interpret her responses. My guess is she does not feel much (it's extremely easy to suddenly switch mood/emotion; they appear acted) and does not get very hurt but will then exaggerate emotion and rage in order to use that as an excuse to attack/manipulate get what she wants. It is possible that she may have actual strong abandonment  anxiety or that the reactions/rage are acted as a manipulation.

What would be helpful here (referring to your opinion that the humorous responses would not be helpful)

yes. I'd love to be detached, but I am addicted and frustrated and have no support.

These relationships definitely have an addictive quality to them. I'm sorry that you feel like you have no support. Have you considered talking to a therapist? It's incredibly helpful to have someone to help you work through these things.

It'd be much easier to detach and be less reactive if I  saw at least one other (maybe normal girl); she has multiple partners and has had them from the beginning but lied about it. As is typical, she has lined up many partners from the beginning and is less vulnerable.

Why do you equate having other partners with being "less vulnerable"? Less vulnerable in what sense?

It seems to me that having all of these partners continuously makes her unable and unwilling to look at herself and her own issues. These types of relationships serve only as distractions.

When I talked about being amused, I meant abot the  humorous/positive response of which I gave an example. I don't find the competition, control, manipulation amusing. It's not pleasant.

The manipulation and competition aren't pleasant, for sure. I'm afraid that's par for the course with these relationships, though. If it drains you and you don't like it, the best course of action is to disassociate from the r/s. It's always there, underneath the surface.

Your "humorous/positive responses" would be fine and playful in the right context -- with a foundation of trust and respect, in a stable place in the r/s -- but I don't think they would be at all helpful here.

If you want to communicate with her, you have to keep in mind that her feelings and interpretations are her reality. How is she likely to interpret those responses given your current situation?

If you don't feel like always wondering how she's going to interpret something, that's understandable... .having a r/s with a disordered person is a lot of work... .but it means that you should seriously reconsider whether or not you want to try to re-engage with her. You can't control her behavior or thoughts; she is who she is, and that will not change. You can only control yourself, and decide for yourself if this is a person whom you want in your life.

I typically strike back only at some point when she has ovedone it and attacked me multiple times and I was not able to control myself. I never wanted to play the games; it's more about how to defend myself.

I understand completely. It's only natural to fight back to try to survive when we feel attacked and vulnerable. We often take a lot before we strike back. It's important to protect ourselves, and these defensive outbursts are telling us that we've not been doing such a good job at it.

If this is a common occurrence in your r/s, then what does it tell you about that r/s?

I am not concerned with her boundaries in this situation at all. She tests me and my boundaries constantly and more severely. This is nothing compared to her behavior.

Is it possible to have mutual respect, acceptance, understanding, and communication with a disordered girl and how.

It's certainly not possible to have those things when the two of you are testing and busting each other's boundaries. There isn't respect, understanding, or acceptance on either side.

As for in general, is it possible to have these things with disordered partners? Not really. It's possible to have a working, long-term r/s with a disordered partner, but the "non" has to come to a place of radical acceptance about the pwBPD and clearly understand what the pwBPD is capable of giving and what he/she isn't. The disorder severely impairs the pwBPD's ability to achieve and sustain healthy, adult intimacy.

[reig]

I don't know where I'd do it here. Poor country. Very low standards of medical care and even lower for mental health + high stigma

I'd love to be detached, but I am addicted and frustrated and have no support. It'd be much easier to detach and be less reactive if I  saw at least one other (maybe normal girl); she has multiple partners and has had them from the beginning but lied about it.

I can understand how hard it is for you to detach.  Have you sought help for your addiction?

[reig]

Yesterday, part of me felt glad that she does not want to see me now as in: "Great, I don't have to deal with all this BS"

[reig]

I just noticed this. When I said I am not concerned with her boundaries in this situation I was referring to specifically contacting her via email even though she responded with ___ earlier. i.e. I did not mean I am not concerned with her boundaries in general.

I am not concerned with her boundaries in this situation at all. She tests me and my boundaries constantly and more severely. This is nothing compared to her behavior.

Is it possible to have mutual respect, acceptance, understanding, and communication with a disordered girl and how.

It's certainly not possible to have those things when the two of you are testing and busting each other's boundaries. There isn't respect, understanding, or acceptance on either side.