Still feel the pain, years after.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hello All,

I've been lurking on this website for a considerable while, reading threads, resources... .etc.

I've been with women more than I can count, including a marriage, and always been searching for love. Very unfortunately for me the only time when I found LOVE "on my side at least, it was with my ex BPD! What a luck!

I wasn't aware of her BPD status at the time of course, but learned about it only after the breakup through her mother, who was a decent, honest woman who loved me like a son and wished I could be the man for her daughter. I must mention that her daughter has told me in prior to that that her mother was diagnosed with BPD "first time I learned of the term" and is not an easy one to deal with, and thus she was keeping distance from her. That was a lie, just like a HUGE bunch of serious lies "and trivial ones, too" she told me during our relationship. I am not sure why my stupid heart beat that loud for that very girl and loved her that DEEP, but after reading articles and threads here I got a much better understanding, and I know now that you, too, understand me when I say I loved her THE MOST.

The relationship ended almost 4 years ago. We had intermittent contact in the middle since we live in different countries. She moved to my country to be with me, and at the end I was hoping for that nightmare to just leave. I think I must be crazy to miss the nightmare all that much and for that long time, but again I hope you understand what it means to 'love' someone, open up to them completely, see them as the most beautiful and wanted creature on earth, and plan a whole life together despite some serious, serious hazards in the way. The girl was full of trouble. The story is too long, complicated, and just weird, so I am giving only highlights here.

I had all the signs which should have told me RUN, but her love was something I enjoyed to my core!

I got back to my ex wife and my son one year ago. She is prettier than my ex BPD, cares about me really, but we were divorced in the past for total lack of chemistry from my side. I felt I was living in a grave. Now I am having this feeling again, and I admit that the main 2 reasons I got back to her were my son's emotional stability first, and secondly my own lost stability after the BPD ex, even though there was a huge number of women in my life between the breakup and getting back to the wife, but none of them meant anything to me, while one of them got totally obsessed "not in a healthy way" with me till the day. However, my heart was always stuck at my ex BPD.

I can't help remembering the way she looked in my eyes with her most beautiful bluest eyes on earth telling me "I'm dangerously in love with you" among many other things any man on earth would love to hear, especially with the feelings she seemingly had while saying them.

Of course I asked myself the obvious question afterwards; did she ever love me? When she felt my very genuine love after the breakup she became a different person, and I was mistreated, and it drove me crazy how I am surrounded by gorgeous women ready to love the ground I walk on; Russian, Egyptian, British, German, and more nationalities "don't ask" but my heart yearns for the very woman who ignores my emotional needs, and I still have no idea why in the flippin' heck did I love especially her!


Anyway... .

Her birthday was a few days ago. I found myself writing a birthday poem for her, with the capital letters starting each sentence read her name if read vertically, so I highlighted them in red to make it clear, used a photo of hers as a back ground, and emailed it to her, and NO I never did that before with another woman even though I have the skill to do something impressive with words if I want to.

She didn't reply, but she unblocked me on facebook, and I am feeling like crap now that I am allowing myself to still have feelings for her after all her compulsive lies, the ill-treatment later, and the years passed, especially given that I am now married again, even if it is not a happy marriage.

We got in contact me and her on whatsapp last May. I let my feelings unleashed and she did exactly the same, but it all ended when she sent me her ex's photo telling me he was the most person she loved in her life, and he had the same name as mine!

Why did I accept this on myself? Especially when I am not someone desperate for a woman, and why for all this time? What the HELL is going on?

[Phantom]

Hello All,

I've been lurking on this website for a considerable while, reading threads, resources... .etc.

I've been with women more than I can count, including a marriage, and always been searching for love. Very unfortunately for me the only time when I found LOVE "on my side at least, it was with my ex BPD! What a luck!

I wasn't aware of her BPD status at the time of course, but learned about it only after the breakup through her mother, who was a decent, honest woman who loved me like a son and wished I could be the man for her daughter. I must mention that her daughter has told me in prior to that that her mother was diagnosed with BPD "first time I learned of the term" and is not an easy one to deal with, and thus she was keeping distance from her. That was a lie, just like a HUGE bunch of serious lies "and trivial ones, too" she told me during our relationship. I am not sure why my stupid heart beat that loud for that very girl and loved her that DEEP, but after reading articles and threads here I got a much better understanding, and I know now that you, too, understand me when I say I loved her THE MOST.

The relationship ended almost 4 years ago. We had intermittent contact in the middle since we live in different countries. She moved to my country to be with me, and at the end I was hoping for that nightmare to just leave. I think I must be crazy to miss the nightmare all that much and for that long time, but again I hope you understand what it means to 'love' someone, open up to them completely, see them as the most beautiful and wanted creature on earth, and plan a whole life together despite some serious, serious hazards in the way. The girl was full of trouble. The story is too long, complicated, and just weird, so I am giving only highlights here.

I had all the signs which should have told me RUN, but her love was something I enjoyed to my core!

I got back to my ex wife and my son one year ago. She is prettier than my ex BPD, cares about me really, but we were divorced in the past for total lack of chemistry from my side. I felt I was living in a grave. Now I am having this feeling again, and I admit that the main 2 reasons I got back to her were my son's emotional stability first, and secondly my own lost stability after the BPD ex, even though there was a huge number of women in my life between the breakup and getting back to the wife, but none of them meant anything to me, while one of them got totally obsessed "not in a healthy way" with me till the day. However, my heart was always stuck at my ex BPD.

I can't help remembering the way she looked in my eyes with her most beautiful bluest eyes on earth telling me "I'm dangerously in love with you" among many other things any man on earth would love to hear, especially with the feelings she seemingly had while saying them.

Of course I asked myself the obvious question afterwards; did she ever love me? When she felt my very genuine love after the breakup she became a different person, and I was mistreated, and it drove me crazy how I am surrounded by gorgeous women ready to love the ground I walk on; Russian, Egyptian, British, German, and more nationalities "don't ask" but my heart yearns for the very woman who ignores my emotional needs, and I still have no idea why in the flippin' heck did I love especially her!


Anyway... .

Her birthday was a few days ago. I found myself writing a birthday poem for her, with the capital letters starting each sentence read her name if read vertically, so I highlighted them in red to make it clear, used a photo of hers as a back ground, and emailed it to her, and NO I never did that before with another woman even though I have the skill to do something impressive with words if I want to.

She didn't reply, but she unblocked me on facebook, and I am feeling like crap now that I am allowing myself to still have feelings for her after all her compulsive lies, the ill-treatment later, and the years passed, especially given that I am now married again, even if it is not a happy marriage.

We got in contact me and her on whatsapp last May. I let my feelings unleashed and she did exactly the same, but it all ended when she sent me her ex's photo telling me he was the most person she loved in her life, and he had the same name as mine!

Why did I accept this on myself? Especially when I am not someone desperate for a woman, and why for all this time? What the HELL is going on?

[Ripples]

Hi Phantom,

Im much further out that you and yet still find myself wondering about her and the past. What has prolonged it for so long is that I allowed her to keep me engaged even though she was off living her life. I have been incredibly naive in thinking that her words had any significance whilst her actions were telling the real story. For me this has been the crux of my drawn out confusion. I have always believed that people in essence are honest and don't deceive and lie their way through life. This twinned with the lack of real closure left me isolated and confused. Last year she invited me to join her on facebook. I Stupidly accepted and subjected myself to images of her new man and their kids. This summer she married her man. We had a brief polite exchange whereupon I removed her from fb. I was angry at myself for my stupidity and I finally woke up. I should state that I do not want anything from her. I know this but I have been so hotly wired that thinking about her became an impulsive reaction. It was real conflict. Even today I miss her but no longer want contact and certainly don't want anything from her.

Perhaps you have been through a similar drawn out charade that in essence has rewired  you despite the illogical reality of it all. I now know she is gone and will not come back. Im not a religious man but this has felt like an exorcism!

[Phantom]

I related to every single word you said to the extent my eyes got a bit watery reading your post. What has reignited it recently for me was a strange dream. After I sent her the birthday poem I had a dream of her 2 nights after. Ironically in that dream we were getting married, and we were in some place supposedly a furniture shop, and she was asking for an anti-gravity sofa! I was thinking like she's demanding the impossible!

What really mattered to me then is that the dream felt as real as it gets, as if our souls actually met there. It might've not been of any profound content, but the feelings were really intense. Surprisingly when I woke up I went to search her facebook profile and I found myself unblocked.

Yes, mine also enjoyed hurting me! When we had the whatsapp conversation which ended in June she told me how some guy gave her gonorrhea and how her last ex happened to be a piece of ___ but how "every cell of my body still screamed for him" (her literal words). She was slipping these things in, and I had crap to say and show back anyway. I acted as cool as I could, but I was burning inside.

You say you're much further than me, so does it come to an end ever? Or is there that part of us embracing the memory not wanting it to end because it represents real love in that very deep spot inside of us?

[Infared]

You say you're much further than me, so does it come to an end ever? Or is there that part of us embracing the memory not wanting it to end because it represents real love in that very deep spot inside of us?

I am much further along than you, too.  My ex married (I think, wouldn't know because I am absolutely positively NC) the guy that she cheated and ran off with.  I still miss her very deeply. After a while I just stopped dating... .got tired of all the BS, games and lies. I have a good life and lots of friends and I just sit back and laugh at all the relationship carnage everywhere I look. It's funny... .communication between men and women is just so messed up.  Women will ask my status... I tell them that I am a former heterosexual LOL!... .but that I don't date any more, i.e. "I'm done. Seriously".

What do they hear?

That's right... .

"Oh, goody... .He's SINGLE".  

YUP I'm done... .but is such a twisted place to be... .missing someone in my soul, for years and knowing if they were walking down the sidewalk towards me that I would switch to the other side of the street and start walking very FAST. Welcome to BPD aftermath 101.

[Ripples]

You say you're much further than me, so does it come to an end ever? Or is there that part of us embracing the memory not wanting it to end because it represents real love in that very deep spot inside of us?

In my brief final exchange I said that my feelings for had been boxed away and had not really been dealt with. By this I meant that in the absence of any logic behind the relationship and real closure from her following the relationship I ended up in limbo. You don't know where you stand. You cant let go because you are not sure if letting go is the right thing to do given that she kept communicating with me. The last time we actually spoke via the phone a few years ago she told me she loved me. So I was thinking ok, give her time. This is why my feelings were in limbo. Her response... ."that is sad"! Sad? This irritated me. You use and abuse someone to the point that they end up a complete mess because of your actions and you think this is sad!

She went on to say she was sorry for the things she had said and the things she hadn't said. I know that she knows she hurt me but never has she actually said "Im sorry i hurt you. Im sorry I used you. Im sorry I turned your life upside down only to throw it in the gutter with no explanation". She will never say this. This is a real apology.

And then she said she wanted to be friends now and valued me as a person. How could I possibly be friends with someone who had treated me this way. I knew then that it was the end.

So my current positive state of mind is really born out of a combination of what she has said, not said and her actions. Combined they were the final pieces of the puzzle which when put in place gave me a clear picture of the type of creature she really is. Of course deep down I knew this all along but the reality of the picture drove it home.

Like you, being in limbo has fueled the memories and hope and for me had done for many years. Completing the picture is what you must do. There is no time limit on how long it will take you but you must find the missing pieces so you can see who she really is and finally let go.

I too had vivid dreams. For me they were mainly about me searching for her. Being in her town, walking around, knowing she was there but never, ever finding her. They were very painful.

Today I know she knows that I know. This is a position of strength for me. Yes there is sadness. I think there always will be but I am thankful that despite the sadness I no longer long after her or the past. Do yourself a favour and let someone else rescue her. And when this happens you may just find those missing pieces.

[charred]

Still feel pain after many years too.

First met my BPDgf about 30 yrs ago... she was hot, friendly and seemed to adore me... we were together about 18 months, were talking marriage and she abruptly dumped me. Showed up hanging on a neighbor a few weeks later... .I was crushed. After about the third time, I packed, quit my job and moved as far away as I could. Many years passed, I recovered, married, had a kid and got on FB. One day my exBPDgf contacted me... had a line of BS about needing to clear the air about why she dumped me... .would I please talk to her on the phone. I did... and instantly all the feelings were back... 100%, after more than 25 yrs! Bad things happened, had a falling out with my wife, started dating my exBPDgf again... and I entered a new hell. Long ago, didn't know she was BPD, and over time she got more and more BPD. I was committed to making it work, gave it 3 yrs and it just got worse and worse. We recycled about 8 times, I have seen a T and been told I had PTSD from it all. Take a long time to explain all the horrors.

So, about 2 yrs ago, I ended and have stuck to my guns. And despite 2 yrs since seeing her, and over 30 since meeting her... .I still feel the pain of the r/s... .dissillusionment. For years, thought if only I had her back my life would be so different (better I thought)... and then I got her back and it was the worst thing that happened to me. She did me a favor dumping me... supposedly for my own good... .but I couldn't see it then, and despite everything still miss her.

The connection isn't normal with a pwBPD... .its is a primary connection. I missed out on much unconditional love as a kid... my mother is cold as ice, her mother died when she was 5... and my mother is waif BPD. So the love bombing, seemingly unconditional love that we get from our pwBPD (at first)... is needed so deeply we look past tons of    , and think we are complete, the world is wonderful, its true love, soul mates... etc. But it is a dark hole in us, connecting to an act from them. We put them on a pedestal, relate as though they are both our good parent we never had and our porn star playmate... at the same time. Then they get clingy, we get confused, and when they turn hater... .we jump through hoops and are as lost as clueless little kids.  The primary relationship is what makes it different... I had 100% of my feelings for her back after 25 years... instantly on hearing her voice. That doesn't happen with normal relationships... I know ... have ran in to others I dated and liked a lot, and nothing later. So... if you lost a parent, it would devastate you... like a BPD r/s does. If you got them back you would be elated... and if you lost them again you would still want them back. That is where I am. I am old enough and have been through enough of the horrors to stay away now... .but the feelings still exist... .and I beat up on myself for wanting someone that is so toxic for me... .but never again.

Good luck... .its been the hardest ongoing thing I have had to deal with in my life.

[Infared]

Charred and Ripples... .

I would just like to say that it helps me knowing that others have the same longterm feelings as I do.   I think that I am built a certain way genetically and a lot of that is why I feel the way that I do.  Coming here and anonymously sharing what you would most likely not share with people in your life... .(for a whole lot of reasons), helps me to know that I am not ready for the looney bin.   I have the same feelings.  I know that there is no resolution for me. The pain has diminished over time... .but it is always there in the background... .Charred you described it perfectly. She came all cute, sassy and sexy (and a lot younger than me)... and brought the mother's milk to me that I never got at a child... .but that was her sickness because she had to bring every skill she had to guarantee the she got the love that she never got from somewhere else from me.  But then they take it all away, abandoning us before we have the chance to do it to them... .and there is no way for us to assure them that this will not happen... their fear is MUCH to great.  It almost kill me.  (Really)

One good thing that came from my situation, was that I went into therapy, group therapy and a self help group... and with a lot of work... .I was able to do the bravest thing that I ever did in my life, and since I was alone I had a lot of time to do this.  My Mom was in a nursing home... .and (of course I did not know) she had about a year to live. She was always cold... .ie no hugs or I love you's. ... .but one day someone in my group said... ."sometimes, when someone changes how they act... it "can"  (but may not) change how the other person acts.  So I sat there and realized, gulp, that perhaps if I went and told my Mom that I loved her, perhaps she could say it to me?  WOW... .talk about big-boy pants... .I made a decision to do it and I gotta tell you it was the absolute bravest/hardest thing that I ever did (I say that with no ego or arrogance)... .  I went to see her a few evenings later (took me a while to build up the courage... no guarantees on responses we know)... .and I spent an hour or two with her sweating, and nervous... .when I was about to go, with the words sticking in my throat... .I told her how I felt about her and why I came by almost every night and I told her that I loved her. Well guys I am eternally grateful to the people in my self help group... .because it was like a damn broke... .she told me that she loved me too, in a very warm and sincere way, the way her voice sounded it was just so genuine (this was NEVER said to me by her)... and the dynamics our relationship from that moment on completely changed... .There was this whole new connection... .Everytime I went to visit it was just different and everytime I left that room I said "I love you, Mom."... .and as her health declined... .she had these little strokes and she started to talk in gibberish... (but she could understand everything I said as she would look me in the eyes and knod, you know.  You may find this hard to believe, but she would always be able to say "I love you, (my name)" after I said it to her.  There was a nurse in the room one day that broke into tears when this happened as as far as she knew, my Mom could not speak at all.  It was REALLY cool.  What a gift. I was totally at peace when she passed away.

The reason I tell that story is that ... .well... .something good came from my pwBPD abusing me and abandoning me.  Something really good that would not have happened if I was not alone and in pain. 

I know that my pwBPD is not capable of a loving response to my love.  Its sad but that is just the truth. If I look at her actions they are never close to what her words are.  If she is sleeping with someone else and telling him that she loves him and will never hurt him... and she is telling me that she loves me... .her words just have no value. None. 

I made peace with my Mom... .but I just don't think that is possible with a BPD. They are just too emotionally damaged to truly connect with anyone, because they are not connected with themselves. 

I don't know what the answer is (one of the main reasons I have never opened a FBaccount is that I need to protect myself in any way that I can from that poison), but interacting with this person that I thought was the most important thing in my life amounts to taking poison for me.  I wish I could change it ... .but you guys are showing me that I most likely cannot.

Thanks for taking the time to post the things that you did.

[Ripples]

Thx for sharing that story Infared. You did the right thing with regard to your Mum for sure.

I think it is perfectly natural for abusive experiences to leave their mark on us. Like you I was initially very skeptical about starting a new relationship but I knew that if I were to heave myself. out of the black hole I was in I had to find a way of trusting people again. However, given my experiences I was better armed to identify potential red flags and respond accordingly. Step by step I finally managed to extricate myself from that very dark place. Most importantly I was able to control my own natural impulses and enforce boundaries that before I could not do.

Your journey to a better a life will feel like walking around a maze but from what you have said you have the right tools to get you out. Just dont let your boundaries box you in forever.

[drummerboy]

I have separated my ex into two different people. Oh sure I still miss the person I first met, the one in the idealisation phase, it was heaven, but I now know it was an act, the mirroring, the projection etc. But god how I miss that feeling. The other person is what she turned out to be, the one I now know her as, confused, bitter, spiteful, revengeful, continually living a lie, a total fraud and a fake. When I see her now I feel nothing except pity and I  say to myself "I know the real you, you are not a nice person" Seeing her like this helps me. The person I know she is is irrelevant to me, but the stage show of what she was like when we met was just a great unsustainable fiction/fantasy.

[downwhim]

Infared,

What a beautiful story. Your mother was fortunate to have you at the end of her life. Growing up it was chaos in my home but one thing we knew for sure was that we were loved. Unconditionally loved.

I thought I found this with my ex BPD. The intensity was so great and the non stop togetherness. I had to be with him everyday. I couldn't stand even going to work because I missed him. It was all I didn't have in my marriage as far as true connectedness,  then one day, poof all gone and this ugly person arrived that was critical, distant, uncaring, detached and verbally abusive. As I softly trotted around on eggshells trying to make sense of his every mood and his frequent rages, I became different too. The anxiety of not knowing how to be and what to do was described previously like walking in a maze. Where do I go, what do I do. My stomach was in knots and my heart was aching.

Now, I feel like damaged goods, the bunny that gets put back on the shelf with hopes of being touched again, loved again but so uncertain. 8 years older and so much more confused and lonely than I ever dreamed I would be in this life. If I sound like a martyr or a victim well, that is how I look at it.

[Infared]

Ripples, Drummerboy and downwhim

Thanks for reading my post and lending support... .It is healing to come here and post what is really going on with me.

I admire your drive to move on and find something more from a relationship, Ripples. Setting boundaries and just being aware of impulses is definitely a good start...

Drummerboy... .I feel the same way... .emotionally.  I miss, I think the feelings I had in the early phases of the relationship... .I now know, too that who she was then was a fantasy... but my feelings of love, trust and sincerity were very real and important to "me"... (not her)... .and I do see who she really is NOW based on her actions.  She is sick, selfish, shallow and despicable... .a person who plays a manipulative game and who is only able to give conditional love... and those conditions change moment by moment and are never satisfied. Knowing this allows me to always walk in the other direction if she approaches me... I just protect myself and move away. Not easy... but self affirming.

Downwhim... .I identify completely with what you are saying... it has been a long painful road for me... .I did go thru Therapy, Group Therapy and was and am currently in a self help group and have some VERY good trusted friends who know me and accept me exactly the way I am as I do them.  I, perhaps like you... could be suffering from some kind of PTSD or something... but I am done with getting in relationships.  Its ok for me... sad in one sense, but freeing in another. I just don't think that I would live thru investing in a situation that is just so fragile and I have learned for me, untenable.  Also, our culture now with all the dating sites, fakebook, the constant crack-addicted texting and all the nonsense just is not conducive to long term love... .everyone seems so distracted and thinking that they may be missing out on something better and cannot be where they are. ... whatever... .I am not open to that any more and it allows me to direct myself completely to friendships, personal activities and helping others.  i.e. by righting that possibility off I can truly engage in great things in my life without the distraction that other have in relationships... .I feel like I am on the other side now ... and its freeing in a strange was.  So... .I guess what I am trying to say... .don't despair... (yes... it hurts like hell inside)... but we can reimagine our lives and live them in a way that may disappoint our mother's, but that may be more authentic to our inner souls.  I think that I am doing that... .There are a lot of positive things out of relationships... .They are not for everyone... .