The lying...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My uBPD wife will blatantly lie about things she has said. How do all of you handle the clear cut transparent lies from your BPDSO?

For example, she once told me during an argument that I was "a failure and a disappointment."  During another discussion, I told her that I didn't feel respected, and she asked for an example.  I gave the "failure and disappointment" bit, and she flat out denies every having said it.  (this is one example, there are dozens upon dozens).

It's basically a show stopper.  Any attempt to show discrepancy or to even clarify what she wants (because she'll say one thing, then another) is met with "I never said that; I'd never say that; that's a phrase I'd never use," and followed up with accusations that I make things up and believe them, that I have a mental disorder.

Some of these are serious issues.  She threatened to hit me when we were in the ER (after she made references to taking an overdose of pills) if I talked to the doctor about things she said.

So on the phone today she denies ever having said that she would hit me.  So there's no making progress on that front.  In fact, she hung up on me, then called back to insist that a) she didn't say it, and b) we should never mention or talk about it ever again.  (I told her we're going to talk about it with her therapist.)

The good news: I no longer yell and scream and call her a liar.  I usually agree to disagree, and try to realize it's the BPD talking; stay calm but firm and not back down.  Early in the marriage I really did think I was going crazy and remembering things incorrectly, so I would cave and question my own memory.

So there's been progress on the "take care of Gomez" front.  But I'd love to hear how everyone handles the "I never said that" situations.

thanks,

Gomez

[gomez_addams]

My uBPD wife will blatantly lie about things she has said. How do all of you handle the clear cut transparent lies from your BPDSO?

For example, she once told me during an argument that I was "a failure and a disappointment."  During another discussion, I told her that I didn't feel respected, and she asked for an example.  I gave the "failure and disappointment" bit, and she flat out denies every having said it.  (this is one example, there are dozens upon dozens).

It's basically a show stopper.  Any attempt to show discrepancy or to even clarify what she wants (because she'll say one thing, then another) is met with "I never said that; I'd never say that; that's a phrase I'd never use," and followed up with accusations that I make things up and believe them, that I have a mental disorder.

Some of these are serious issues.  She threatened to hit me when we were in the ER (after she made references to taking an overdose of pills) if I talked to the doctor about things she said.

So on the phone today she denies ever having said that she would hit me.  So there's no making progress on that front.  In fact, she hung up on me, then called back to insist that a) she didn't say it, and b) we should never mention or talk about it ever again.  (I told her we're going to talk about it with her therapist.)

The good news: I no longer yell and scream and call her a liar.  I usually agree to disagree, and try to realize it's the BPD talking; stay calm but firm and not back down.  Early in the marriage I really did think I was going crazy and remembering things incorrectly, so I would cave and question my own memory.

So there's been progress on the "take care of Gomez" front.  But I'd love to hear how everyone handles the "I never said that" situations.

thanks,

Gomez

[patientandclear]

It's likely not lying as much as dissociation. She probably truly has no memory of saying what she said. Certainly true of my ex. Imagine how confusing for them ... .People are constantly reacting to them in certain ways that make no sense to the pwBPD because they don't remember the precipitating event.

[JohnLove]

Hi Gomez, I have witnessed my BPDgf dissociate when in a stressful situation with another male trying to force or coerce her into buying a car. She had no genuine memory of the particular part of time when she disassociated. It scared the living crap out of me.

Even afterwards when things were fine between us with no stress and analysing the event with her she had no recall of the part where she went "funny"... .only it wasn't so funny. It was downright terrifying. She kinda went on automatic and became submissive.

Not something I'm going to forget in a hurry. It was traumatic for me.

We are talking about a real mental disorder here.

This is but a component of a real serious illness.

[gomez_addams]

P&C, John... .

Thanks.  Part of me wants to call her therapist, and share some of my experiences.  I don't know if that's ethical or wise.  I'm kind of at a loss for how to proceed. 

We're almost certainly heading towards divorce.  She's in another state, with family, after a six-week stint for inpatient treatment for an eating disorder.  She has a therapist back home, but probably no more than a pair of sessions (and her next one is in 3-4 weeks).

I know I can't make her get more intensive help; in fact, she thinks I'm the disordered one.

Engage her family first?  Call the therapist?  Cut and run?

Regardless of how the relationship proceeds, I truly want her to get help.  This is such a hopeless feeling, knowing that she's probably under the covers in her parents' spare bedroom, being the victim.

Gomez

[gomez_addams]

Even afterwards when things were fine between us with no stress and analysing the event with her she had no recall of the part where she went "funny"... .only it wasn't so funny. It was downright terrifying. She kinda went on automatic and became submissive.

The more I read and interact with folks, the more things make sense.  99% of the time, this stuff revolves around things she said, and there really is no way to prove whether she did or didn't.  One time it dealt with a text message -- a truly innocent miscommunication about whether she asked me to get something for her before or after I went to the store and came home -- it was TRULY FRIGHTENING.

She was upset that I didn't get XYZ while at the store, even though she specifically asked.

I whipped out the phone -- I was RELIEVED that it was just a misunderstanding -- and showed her that she asked me to get XYZ the DAY AFTER I went to the store.

Full.  Unadulterated.  Meltdown.  Panic attack.  I thought she was going to stop breathing.

"Sometimes it gets all jumbled up in my head," she said in the meekest, weakest voice imaginable.

Over a simple misunderstanding.

I kind of buried that one, because it was so shocking.

Gomez

[husband112]

I have a hobby for technology, and I've always dreamed of creating an app that becomes popular. I used to dream of creating an app that was always listening and creating a transcript that was saved to the 'cloud' and searchable.

I realize now that this maybe is not a mainstream problem that needs solving, but only nons with pwBPD in their life, and may not be a commercial success.  (Although I'm sure we would pay a pretty penny for it!)

I've had so many arguments with my BPDw over what was said. I started to maybe think there was something wrong with me, because she was always saying "I didn't say that" when I had such clear memory of it being said. I actually started thinking I was going senile.

Now that I'm aware of her condition, and she admits she shows signs of BPD, we still tend to get into arguments over what was said. I look at her knowing that I will never doubt myself again in these situations, and she lacks total credibility, but of course even now she doesn't see it that way.

Sometimes it is dissociation; however, it's definitely lying too, and it's really hard to tell where one ends and the other starts.

She has admitted to lying for months about something she didn't want me knowing because it was horrible.

I tell her it's selfish, and she says no she was doing it for the sake of me, even though I was begging her to tell me the truth.

She has now said that her therapist, and our marriage councilor have validated her lying, but I digress.

Good luck!

[gomez_addams]

Wife called me today to tell me she was sorry for how she acted on the phone over the weekend, and that she let her emotions get the better of her.  She calmly insisted that she remembers things differently, but she wants me to tell her (later, I was not in a private setting when she called) exactly what I remember.

Turns out this morning she had an appointment with her therapist.  Not sure how the session went down, but this is a nice step in the right direction.

Later tonight I'll e-mail her what she said to me in the ER that night.  As rough as all this is, it's relieving to see that calmly standing my ground, agreeing to disagree (rather than JADEing), and not resorting to name calling/yelling helped get through the weekend.  Normally I get so pissed or intimidated when she denies saying something that I clearly remember her saying.  So even though the overall concerns about my safety/her safety aren't resolved (and will take time), at least for this instance I maintained some sanity and dignity, and didn't make everything worse.

Gomez

[husband112]

Good job Gomez, yes, I realize now I usually make it much worse by getting angry myself. I'm a very logical person, and illogical things like lying about what was said really gets to me. So I totally understand how hard it is to just let it go.