Didn't fall for recycle attempt

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

A couple weeks ago I broke my 6 week NC by taking a call from him.  Initially he was angry at " how and when I left"... .(we had a huge argument, he'd been manic for a few days and I'd just had enough.  I packed my stuff and left, there was NO doubt in my words r actions that I was done. His misunderstanding that this was final perplexed me... .he kept saying I left to get some distance for a while to let things cool down but thought for sure I would call and come back.  I obviously did not.  In 10 yrs I'd never done this before... .left and come back.)

Anyway, through email and some calls and assurances that he'd done work on himself and was continuing to do so, that I was working hard on my issues with caretaking and lack of boundaries,we agreed to staying in touch and slowly trying to sort out if we could slowly build back something... .friendship being the goal. After a few nice emails,  He sent me a long woe is me email, how he had no hope in his life, how I was the best person he'd ever met, how hard it was to be there alone, day in and day out.  How much he loved me and didnt want to lose me in his life... And asked if I'd come home.  (I'm 2 hrs away at my mother's.)

Those words,"come home" set off such a physical reaction in me that it took days for things to settle down.  

I responded as kindly as I could, that I was sorry things were so hard and that he had noone to turn to ( no friends, no family but his son who avoids him) but that I could not go back there, isolated (very rural) and just he and I alone.  The mere suggestion of it set off a panic attack.  I was not strong enough, I wrote, to be sure I would not fall back into feeling bad for him, being manipulated again, having the buttons he knows so well pushed.  (I did not mention his anger issues still very evident in his emails nor that I now fear for harm to me physically since he did hit me a few months ago, in a situation very much like the one brewing when I left).

I got no response to that email for almost a week.  

While shopping a couple days ago I got a call... I was waiting for a vet call so I picked up without looking at it.  It was him.  I asked why are you home?  He started a job after 6 yrs at home a month or so before I left, and he had told me that he'd missed alot of time from our breakup and they were threatening termination.  He said he'd checked his garage that morning before work to find that some heavy rain the day before caused some flooding... this happened last year and it was quite an ordeal.  He went to work anyway, concerned for his job, but after being so upset and vomiting, he went home sick.  He referenced a few things in my last email, confirming he got it and started to break down... .it kills me to hear this tough guy crying, begging, so utterly distraught... ."come home, please, I just need some support, some help.  My mothers things are getting ruined in the garage, its all I have left of her... all my tools, all mynequipment... ". and on and on.  I caved.  Said well,I could help for the day ( ugh,stupid!) and he sobbed more... ."just come home whitebread, bring my dogs, spend a couple days, I just need some moral support, I'll be gone 10 hrs a day, you can rest here and we can talk at night, I just need someone to talk to or I'll just take a bullet, I can't take everything falling apart"

It took everything I had to say "I'm sorry, I can't do that".

He hung up on me.

It was the right thing to do, For ME, I knew it and still do... .but gut wrenching is an understatement.  I know I have to go NC, and really just want to avoid contact even to say thats what I'm doing.  

I don't want to harm him further, or re engage to tell him thats what I'm doing.  

I just want to disappear, again.  

I hate this disorder.  

[Whitebread]

A couple weeks ago I broke my 6 week NC by taking a call from him.  Initially he was angry at " how and when I left"... .(we had a huge argument, he'd been manic for a few days and I'd just had enough.  I packed my stuff and left, there was NO doubt in my words r actions that I was done. His misunderstanding that this was final perplexed me... .he kept saying I left to get some distance for a while to let things cool down but thought for sure I would call and come back.  I obviously did not.  In 10 yrs I'd never done this before... .left and come back.)

Anyway, through email and some calls and assurances that he'd done work on himself and was continuing to do so, that I was working hard on my issues with caretaking and lack of boundaries,we agreed to staying in touch and slowly trying to sort out if we could slowly build back something... .friendship being the goal. After a few nice emails,  He sent me a long woe is me email, how he had no hope in his life, how I was the best person he'd ever met, how hard it was to be there alone, day in and day out.  How much he loved me and didnt want to lose me in his life... And asked if I'd come home.  (I'm 2 hrs away at my mother's.)

Those words,"come home" set off such a physical reaction in me that it took days for things to settle down.  

I responded as kindly as I could, that I was sorry things were so hard and that he had noone to turn to ( no friends, no family but his son who avoids him) but that I could not go back there, isolated (very rural) and just he and I alone.  The mere suggestion of it set off a panic attack.  I was not strong enough, I wrote, to be sure I would not fall back into feeling bad for him, being manipulated again, having the buttons he knows so well pushed.  (I did not mention his anger issues still very evident in his emails nor that I now fear for harm to me physically since he did hit me a few months ago, in a situation very much like the one brewing when I left).

I got no response to that email for almost a week.  

While shopping a couple days ago I got a call... I was waiting for a vet call so I picked up without looking at it.  It was him.  I asked why are you home?  He started a job after 6 yrs at home a month or so before I left, and he had told me that he'd missed alot of time from our breakup and they were threatening termination.  He said he'd checked his garage that morning before work to find that some heavy rain the day before caused some flooding... this happened last year and it was quite an ordeal.  He went to work anyway, concerned for his job, but after being so upset and vomiting, he went home sick.  He referenced a few things in my last email, confirming he got it and started to break down... .it kills me to hear this tough guy crying, begging, so utterly distraught... ."come home, please, I just need some support, some help.  My mothers things are getting ruined in the garage, its all I have left of her... all my tools, all mynequipment... ". and on and on.  I caved.  Said well,I could help for the day ( ugh,stupid!) and he sobbed more... ."just come home whitebread, bring my dogs, spend a couple days, I just need some moral support, I'll be gone 10 hrs a day, you can rest here and we can talk at night, I just need someone to talk to or I'll just take a bullet, I can't take everything falling apart"

It took everything I had to say "I'm sorry, I can't do that".

He hung up on me.

It was the right thing to do, For ME, I knew it and still do... .but gut wrenching is an understatement.  I know I have to go NC, and really just want to avoid contact even to say thats what I'm doing.  

I don't want to harm him further, or re engage to tell him thats what I'm doing.  

I just want to disappear, again.  

I hate this disorder.  

[JRT]

WB... .can I ask a stupid question here (and it is more hypothetical than anything else):

Why not just talk to the guy? If it is at all possible to speak with him without getting lassoed back into a r/s you don't want to be a part of any longer, why not just do it?

[Hazelrah]

WB... .can I ask a stupid question here (and it is more hypothetical than anything else):

Why not just talk to the guy? If it is at all possible to speak with him without getting lassoed back into a r/s you don't want to be a part of any longer, why not just do it?

I'm certainly not speaking for Whitebread, but I can understand why some of us might express similar sentiments.  We can get so fully enmeshed in the lives of our pwBPD, whether we play the role of caretaker, soother, what have you.  It is exhausting, and after years of this we simply reach a point where we can't do it anymore.  Full detachment/NC is the only way many of us can ever break those bonds and regain our perspective and sanity. 

It's a fine line... .turning away a person in such obvious distress.  But there reaches a point where we can't be responsible for another adult--they need to find their own way, just as we do.

[JRT]

Thats fair enough... .and you hit my concern squarely: it seems that he is at a genuine low point in his life where having someone just to talk to might help him. Mine is not encouragement TO talk to him, just wanting to understand (my pwBPD was not like this at all, so I have no perspective).

[icom]

I'm certainly not speaking for Whitebread, but I can understand why some of us might express similar sentiments.  We can get so fully enmeshed in the lives of our pwBPD, whether we play the role of caretaker, soother, what have you.  It is exhausting, and after years of this we simply reach a point where we can't do it anymore.  Full detachment/NC is the only way many of us can ever break those bonds and regain our perspective and sanity.  

It's a fine line... .turning away a person in such obvious distress.  But there reaches a point where we can't be responsible for another adult--they need to find their own way, just as we do.

I second this.

After years of being the grand sentinel-always forbearing, always dutiful, always loyal-you do reach a stage where you are so depleted that you begin asking yourself some key questions: “Remind me again why I am doing this?” “Am I getting ANY rewards from this?”

After years of loyalty to my BPD partner, I was noting that the rewards-such as they were- were exceedingly scant, or completely absent.  

Specifically, it’s referred to as “Caretaker Stress” or “Caretaker Syndrome” which is described as, “…a condition of exhaustion, anger, rage, or guilt that results from unrelieved caring for a chronically ill dependent.”

Everyone has an allostatic loading limit where you physically cannot endure any more stress, and as Hazelrah so correctly notes, BPD is always in a state of need, support, or nurturance.

I think that most people involved with BPD just reach the point of super saturation, in that they simply cannot bear the burden anymore, and this action is not unjust-or unfeeling-but a necessary survival function.

[Suzn]

He referenced a few things in my last email, confirming he got it and started to break down... .it kills me to hear this tough guy crying, begging, so utterly distraught... ."come home, please, I just need some support, some help.  My mothers things are getting ruined in the garage, its all I have left of her... all my tools, all mynequipment..". and on and on.  

All things he knows YOU would value. This is a hard situation Whitebread, in my past I ran to the rescue every time, I get it. Now, I think why isn't he working on moving this stuff right now instead of emailing or being on the phone with you? If it meant that much to him he would be.

I just need someone to talk to or I'll just take a bullet, I can't take everything falling apart"

This is the worst situation to be put in, I'm really sorry. It would be good to offer a suicide hotline number if you can. I don't know if this has happened in the past but this is how you can be assured he isn't working on himself. He's not saying anything about going to a T for support or acting in his own best interests. And it certainly isn't in your best interests to be in a rural setting with someone who has hit you and not taken any steps to deal with their past actions.

It took everything I had to say "I'm sorry, I can't do that".

Been in those shoes. Glad to hear you stood your ground. I know how hard it is when it gets to the point of it taking everything you had in you to save yourself.  

[Deeno02]

I made the mistake of breaking NC just to say something nice on a picture of her and the new guy. I got hammered for it by her. I felt and still do feel like an idiot for doing so. I meant nothing by it, just trying to be an adult about it. Ended up setting me back a bit. Thought maybe, just maybe a kind word would be returned. I have no clue what the hell I was thinking. Very painful lesson and now Im sure she thinks Im a big jackass for it. Sheesh

[Whitebread]

JRT, I would continue to talk, be supportive, again, to try to be friends again, but in a short 2 weeks it went from doing just that to demands to 'come home'.

He really doesn't want a slow careful rebuilding of trust... .he wants what he wants... .things to go back to how they were.  Me there, isolated from everything and everyone but him.  He isn't truly interested in my suggestion of starting out talking, then moving to meeting somewhere public to talk for a few hours.  Do some things together. Hang out with the dogs.  Its not enough.  He had and wants complete and total enmeshment.

Our history is long and deeply intwined, we spent almost every day together, 24 hrs a day 7 days a week for the better part of 6 yrs.  very little contact with anyone else.  He fought with my mother and fought with me every time I left to do something for her.  She was a threat to his control. 

As was my best friend, he knew she saw through him, and yet she never once said anything bad about him... .only that she supported me to work through this relationship and encouraged me to take care of me, she saw I'd gotten lost.  He has painted her black and fought with me every time she called me.

He is unstable, off all antidepressants, and NOT in therapy as I was led to believe.  His only work was apparently recognizing he expected me to do too much for him and raged at me for things I didn't do or deserve.  He did apologize for his part in the breakdown of our relationship and I believe it was genuine.  He never had done that before.  But his work is just beginning, and I'm feeling that he will stall and not do the hard parts but rather blame me.  Get stuck in the persecution role.  And if I'm physically there... .well, I've seen what he's capable of and its not pretty.

He has talked about ending his life on other occasions, and  even went so far as bringing his guns to his neighbor to hold onto because he didn't trust himself (20 yrs ago when he was going through a nasty divorce)... His then infant son being cited as the only reason he didn't just do it.

He wouldn't be receptive at all to a hotline, he is humiliated enough by his feelings. 

I've let his son know, tough things to lay on a 21 yr old who has as little to do with him as he can because of the constant criticism and lectures.  He is supportive of my leaving, but is torn too, its his Dad, and it hurts to see him like this.

Should I lay low for a bit and see what happens?  Email to say I can offer support but only from here?

Completely go NC?  I just don't know. 

Thanks for the replies, its really helpful to try to gain some perspective. 

[JRT]

WB... .I want you to know that I am not challenging you for the sake of challenging you... .just wondering what I would do if my BPD tired to contact me.

I of course, do't know the situation quite as well as you do. But he DOES seem to be in real crisis with few resources to whom he can turn for support. I wish that there was a way that he could be helped but I realize that that might be the worst thing for him (yes, I am a 'rescuer'.

[Whitebread]

JRT---no offense taken at all, I'm looking for opinions/ insight.  And challenges can be part of that.  So thank you, I welcome everyone's thoughts.

I'm a rescuer too... .taking on way more of his stuff and his responsibilities than I should have.

And paying the price for it, physically and mentally.

I just heard from his son, he saw him last night, and heard about the garage in an email. 

But he didn't tell his son about his call to me and my refusal to come home. 

Could be saving face and trying to not appear weak. 

But, he made it through the immediate crisis... .I feel better knowing that.

Still haven't decided what to do, but I don't feel as panic stricken.

Thanks again. 

[JRT]

JRT---no offense taken at all, I'm looking for opinions/ insight.  And challenges can be part of that.  So thank you, I welcome everyone's thoughts.

I'm a rescuer too... .taking on way more of his stuff and his responsibilities than I should have.

And paying the price for it, physically and mentally.

I just heard from his son, he saw him last night, and heard about the garage in an email. 

But he didn't tell his son about his call to me and my refusal to come home. 

Could be saving face and trying to not appear weak. 

But, he made it through the immediate crisis... .I feel better knowing that.

Still haven't decided what to do, but I don't feel as panic stricken.

Thanks again. 

Hugs... .I hope that there is some happy ending... .of some kind

[Suzn]

Whitebread NC is for you, when you feel you need it. It's only a tool. It's not a rule that you HAVE abide by. You may want to exercise some controlled contact. We all have some abandonment issues and it can help you too, if you want to try it.

Essentially, you are the one to control the contact such as saying "I'm really busy with work, I'll call you on Tues around 5". And make sure it's a time where you can follow through. You keep the conversation as boring as possible. You can even let him know when you call that you have about 20 minutes (more or less, it's up to you) to talk then you have to do _____.  Then you set another time you can call and so on... stretching it out along the way.

This can help you both. You know he's ok right now, he can reach out for help and he has to show some responsibility for himself. By now he knows you're serious. He may refuse in person but you can text him a suicide hotline number if things get bad again. He may call and not tell you he called, like he didn't tell his son about telling you to come home.

[jhkbuzz]

Thats fair enough... .and you hit my concern squarely: it seems that he is at a genuine low point in his life where having someone just to talk to might help him. Mine is not encouragement TO talk to him, just wanting to understand (my pwBPD was not like this at all, so I have no perspective).

Years and years of therapy is the only thing that will help someone with BPD begin to heal and change their lives.  The above (in bold) is the kind of thinking that non's often engage in... .that our partners are at such a low that they NEED our help, they need US, that just talking and interacting with US will help them.

It's simply not true.  What that ^ line of reasoning leads to is emeshment... .taking on too much responsibility for another adult... .and a LOT of pain for ourselves.

[BorisAcusio]

Thats fair enough... .and you hit my concern squarely: it seems that he is at a genuine low point in his life where having someone just to talk to might help him. Mine is not encouragement TO talk to him, just wanting to understand (my pwBPD was not like this at all, so I have no perspective).

From: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

You might want to stay to help your partner. You might want to disclose to them that they have borderline personality disorder and help them get into therapy. Maybe you want to help in other ways while still maintaining a “friendship”.

The fact is, we are no longer in a position to be the caretaker and support person for our “BPD” partner – no matter how well intentioned.

Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

We also need to question your own motives and your expectations for wanting to help. Is this kindness or a type “well intentioned” manipulation on your part - an attempt to change them to better serve the relationship as opposed to addressing the lifelong wounds from which they suffer?

More importantly, what does this suggest about our own survival instincts – we’re injured, in ways we may not even fully grasp, and it’s important to attend to our own wounds before we are attempt to help anyone else.

You are damaged. Right now, your primary responsibility really needs to be to yourself – your own emotional survival.

If your partner tries to lean on you, it’s a greater kindness that you step away. Difficult, no doubt, but more responsible.

[Whitebread]

Thank you Suzn, very good point about placing strict guidelines on communicating if I go that route again.  He is very... .verbose, and will talk /rant /complain forever so time limits are a really good idea.  I AM in control of what I choose to subject myself to... .and for how long.  Thanks for the gentle reminder!  

I think coming from me the hotline info. would be immediately rebuffed however I think I will ask his son to pass along the info. to him, it may be received better.  He knows his son is aware of his past issues and his diagnosis.  It might have more impact.

Changing the knee-jerk reactions we've done for so long is so hard for us, and must be virtually impossible for pwBPD.  He is just doing what he knows.  

Thank you Boris, I've read this, and its absolutely true.  I myself am so very broken from years of this dysfunctional r/s and just lately have made progress on the whys in my past family dynamic that cause me to feel I need to save everyone.  The only one I can really save is me. 

[downwhim]

A couple weeks ago I broke my 6 week NC by taking a call from him.  Initially he was angry at " how and when I left"... .(we had a huge argument, he'd been manic for a few days and I'd just had enough.  I packed my stuff and left, there was NO doubt in my words r actions that I was done. His misunderstanding that this was final perplexed me... .he kept saying I left to get some distance for a while to let things cool down but thought for sure I would call and come back.  I obviously did not.  In 10 yrs I'd never done this before... .left and come back.)



Anyway, through email and some calls and assurances that he'd done work on himself and was continuing to do so, that I was working hard on my issues with caretaking and lack of boundaries,we agreed to staying in touch and slowly trying to sort out if we could slowly build back something... .friendship being the goal. After a few nice emails,  He sent me a long woe is me email, how he had no hope in his life, how I was the best person he'd ever met, how hard it was to be there alone, day in and day out.  How much he loved me and didnt want to lose me in his life... And asked if I'd come home.  (I'm 2 hrs away at my mother's.)

Those words,"come home" set off such a physical reaction in me that it took days for things to settle down.  

I responded as kindly as I could, that I was sorry things were so hard and that he had noone to turn to ( no friends, no family but his son who avoids him) but that I could not go back there, isolated (very rural) and just he and I alone.  The mere suggestion of it set off a panic attack.  I was not strong enough, I wrote, to be sure I would not fall back into feeling bad for him, being manipulated again, having the buttons he knows so well pushed.  (I did not mention his anger issues still very evident in his emails nor that I now fear for harm to me physically since he did hit me a few months ago, in a situation very much like the one brewing when I left).

I got no response to that email for almost a week.  

While shopping a couple days ago I got a call... I was waiting for a vet call so I picked up without looking at it.  It was him.  I asked why are you home?  He started a job after 6 yrs at home a month or so before I left, and he had told me that he'd missed alot of time from our breakup and they were threatening termination.  He said he'd checked his garage that morning before work to find that some heavy rain the day before caused some flooding... this happened last year and it was quite an ordeal.  He went to work anyway, concerned for his job, but after being so upset and vomiting, he went home sick.  He referenced a few things in my last email, confirming he got it and started to break down... .it kills me to hear this tough guy crying, begging, so utterly distraught... ."come home, please, I just need some support, some help.  My mothers things are getting ruined in the garage, its all I have left of her... all my tools, all mynequipment... ". and on and on.  I caved.  Said well,I could help for the day ( ugh,stupid!) and he sobbed more... ."just come home whitebread, bring my dogs, spend a couple days, I just need some moral support, I'll be gone 10 hrs a day, you can rest here and we can talk at night, I just need someone to talk to or I'll just take a bullet, I can't take everything falling apart"

It took everything I had to say "I'm sorry, I can't do that".

He hung up on me.

It was the right thing to do, For ME, I knew it and still do... .but gut wrenching is an understatement.  I know I have to go NC, and really just want to avoid contact even to say thats what I'm doing.  

I don't want to harm him further, or re engage to tell him thats what I'm doing.  

I just want to disappear, again.  

I hate this disorder.  


Whitebread,

He has been physically, emotionally and verbally abusive to you. He has isolated you. He does not get along with your best friend and mother who are both your confidants. He pushes/pulls, manipulates, controls, paints you black then white, recycles, then begs you to come back to handle HIS problems. HIS mothers items are getting ruined while you are not suppose to have a relationship with your mother and your suppose to fix everything so it is better for him. Hum?

Most of us on this board have been with borderlines because we are co dependent. We try and make things right in their world while our own needs are unmet. I can only imagine the anxiety and panic you have knowing if you help him out and go over there one slight slip of the wrong word or look could get you beat. Your scared and you have a right to stay away from an abusive situation. Go N/C completely and give yourself some peace. Think about what is best for YOU.

He sounds so immature as BPD's are and using his threat to end his life is a way to pull at you and gain control.

Are you seeing a T? You made the right move by getting out of there. Be strong and try not to get sucked into his chaos and drama.

Keep posting. We are all here for you.