My SO not diagnosed, is very controlled when it comes to anything sexual

[Hmcbart]

I'm new to all of this and probably late to the party on this discussion but I tend to lean from the perspective of being the husband. My SO not diagnosed, is very controlled when it comes to anything sexual. I'm pretty smart guy but just never caught on to how much control.

Even after MC suggested we try scheduled sex every other week, she actually agreed in the office. She couldn't give up that control. I told her that I didn't feel it was fair for her to be in complete control of our sex life and get to make all the decisions about when it may happen (fyi, once a year is her thought).

In typical controlling black & white fashion I turned out to be the bad guy. I demanded the twice a month thing and she only agreed (in 2 MC sessions) because she felt pressured by me and the MC. Then I was told that I do have a choice. I can accept that it will happen when and if she wants it to happen or I can leave.

We've been married 17 yrs together 19 and have 2 kids. If I leave she moves back to Texas. I can't see my kids if I don't move with them and I can't support them if I move with no job. So the part about with holding sex is unequivocally all about control in some situations... .

I could just be bitter about it as well.

She claimed that I demanded the every two weeks. I actually didn't demand or even come up with it. I would have been excited by once a quarter at that point. I am learning everyday how much I have allowed her to control me. I'm a fairly sarcastic /smart azz by nature. I would be happy if she could just say no without making me feel like an idiot for even asking.

I just completed a 500 question thing for my therapist last week because I had started to believe that I was an addict. He said the test came back negative. And now we are working on my self esteem.

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[formflier]

So the part about with holding sex is unequivocally all about control in some situations... .

How did you feel about your wife doing this?  Exercising her "right" to withhold sex?

[Hmcbart]

So the part about with holding sex is unequivocally all about control in some situations... .

How did you feel about your wife doing this?  Exercising her "right" to withhold sex?

For the longest time she has always had a reason or excuse for not being in the mood. Some were even legitimate. Postpartum depression after our two boys, the medication for the PPD. I think it was the different hurdles I had to jump. Every time I cleared one another would pop up. I do believe and agree that it is her body so that makes it her choice. I would never force her to do anything.

I think it was more of the how she would say no versus the fact that she said no. I'm in sales and get told no all the time but she always said it in a way that would make you feel like an idiot for asking. Our MC even thought that once a year was a problem, she refuses to return to him, and my therapist even agreed that there was probably underlying issues to her lack of intimacy.

I guess that was a long answer to a simple question. In a marriage it should be about both parties emotional needs. If you can't or won't try to meet those needs you need to have a long talk about why. If the reasons are valid and both parties can agree to accept them then ok.

I've told her and the MC that the lack of sex is not a deal breaker. I've been married 17 years and it has been this way since our oldest was born, he's 12 now. I'm tired of not being able to at least share the control over how and when I receive any intimacy (words or sex).

I'm still new to the processes outlined with this behavior. Im learning about boundaries, just not ready to attempt to set them. I do plan on taking away the control she has with our sex life. I know it will cause issues if she ever does try to initiate anything sexual. I learned what happens when you say no to her on that. But for my own sanity I will be focusing on abstinence for a while. I refuse to be Charlie Brown to her Lucy any longer. My self esteem is too important right now and I need that more than sex.

[formflier]

In a marriage it should be about both parties emotional needs. If you can't or won't try to meet those needs you need to have a long talk about why. If the reasons are valid and both parties can agree to accept them then ok.

This is a huge point.  One that I personally agree with... .

In my r/s... I am focusing hard on having the conversations... .for me... .it's not about the agreement... .it's about the conversation... .it's about creating a place where we can both feel "safe" to express our side... .

The tools I have learned on BPD family... .have helped immensely... .it's a process... .

[formflier]

I've told her and the MC that the lack of sex is not a deal breaker. I've been married 17 years and it has been this way since our oldest was born, he's 12 now. I'm tired of not being able to at least share the control over how and when I receive any intimacy (words or sex).

I'm still new to the processes outlined with this behavior. Im learning about boundaries, just not ready to attempt to set them. I do plan on taking away the control she has with our sex life. I know it will cause issues if she ever does try to initiate anything sexual. I learned what happens when you say no to her on that. But for my own sanity I will be focusing on abstinence for a while. I refuse to be Charlie Brown to her Lucy any longer. My self esteem is too important right now and I need that more than sex.

Hmmm... .interesting... .

Can you explain more about your "tactics" here.

Is the plan... .to be nonchalant about getting sex... .in hopes of getting more?

Is your wife open to you getting intimacy in other places... .or just deciding that you don't get it... period.

That is the kicker in a monogamous r/s... .

Hang in there. 

[Hmcbart]

I'm all out of tactics. I hadn't yet stumbled onto this site yet. Wife is undiagnosed and as far as she is concerned I'm the issue.

As far as nonchalant, that doesn't work either. Neither does asking more often, flowers, dinner, cooking, cleaning, etc. I've been fighting this battle and losing for years. As far as open to intimacy from other places, that's a negative. She told me once that if I needed it so bad maybe I should find someone else. A few months later I told her I was going to take her up on the offer. That got real ugly real quick.

After out last battle, she confided in a friend and decided that most women only want to have sex a couple (2 or 3) times a year and I may be a sex addict. I have taken the tests for sex addict and they came back negative. 

She made the comment in MC that the only reason I try to sit with her and watch tv it to try and have sex. He even said that it was because of an 8 month dry spell... .she doesn't like him anymore and now don't go to MC.

She has used that as her control for years. If you do X I will be more inclined to do Y. I hold up my end but she never does hers, at least not until she is sure I'm headed out the door. That's why the Charlie Brown and Lucy idea is so fitting.

[formflier]

I hold up my end but she never does hers, at least not until she is sure I'm headed out the door. That's why the Charlie Brown and Lucy idea is so fitting.

Which is why... I don't make deals now unless... .

1.  I get my end of the bargain first... .so ... .in your case... .let's go up to bedroom... and then I will do xyz.

2.  Unless I really don't care about my end... .or want to use it to illustrate a point about her not following through.

Example: of this... .in last MC... .she claimed I was not being agreeable to a chore list... .that the issue was me not agreeing... .(projection... she is one that couldn't agree... )  I countered with "help me understand your proposal"... .she of course had avoided making one... .but now was on the spot in from of MC.

So... .she coughs up a proposal... .a "deal" about chores... .all about making a chart for them. 

I said... .love it... .I agree to try that until next MC session... then we will evaluate.  You will create the chart tonight... .for me to review... .I'll "sign off"... .on the chart you create tonight. 

She nodded... tried to agree... without being specific.

I'm back in... .

So... just to clarify... ."ff wife is creating chart tonight... .I'll sign off on that chart tonight... we'll discuss at next MC... .this was ff wife idea... .and I was agreeable with this idea... ."  Do I have this correct.  Now my wife is a bit more exasperate... but says yes... and repeats back most of it.  MC is a bit curious as to why I am being so specific... but seems onboard... .

I don't give a hoot about the agreement... .wife can't follow them... .but she claims she can.  There has been no chart drawn up... .and at next MC session... it will be interesting to to watch her bob and weave about why she couldn't comply with the one agreement we made at last MC... .especially since I agreed entirely with her proposed agreement.

"Help me understand how I can help you follow through on your agreements... ."... .is going to be interesting to watch.

[formflier]

 

She made the comment in MC that the only reason I try to sit with her and watch tv it to try and have sex. He even said that it was because of an 8 month dry spell... .she doesn't like him anymore and now don't go to MC.

Are you still in MC?  Keep going back... .even if she quits... .make her own the fact that she is the quiter... .and not you.

If you agree and stop going... it can confuse things in her mind.

Has she ever been to a T?

A P?

[Hmcbart]

We haven't been back to MC for about 3-4 months. I think that's what woke me up to the truth. It wasn't until MC that I realized I had a say in parts of our marriage. I knew I was missing something but wasn't really sure any longer what it was.

The intimacy was what I missed. At the time of MC, I have it confused with sex. I was getting neither but needed something. She has always been in control of the sex. When and how was always up to her. Hey, it's her body right. She gets to make the decision on if she shares it with me or not.

She was always coming up with reason why she couldn't, some legitimate, but the constant hurdles that would never end. It was a subtle for of control. Funny that it's the same thing I train people to do. If you try to push a person off a cliff, they will push back. If you walk them along the edge and slowly bring them closer until they lose their balance, you can gently nudge them right over the side. I just feel right into it myself.

Always a promis of, do this or that, that's what I need. It was all about the control. In MC when the therapist set the terms of every other Friday, she agreed. I didn't think anything other than, she finally gets it, she heard that I have emotional needs as well.

That was short lived. She never could live up to the agreement. I was hurt and angry and would show my feelings and end up arguing. At that point I still didn't realize what was happening. I still didn't understand the way she had to be in control. It was only after going to see my own therapist in the last few weeks that I saw the light.

This next part is purely unsubstantiated, just my point of view:

Our MC had taken away that control she had. He had made her agree to something when I wanted it as well as her. That's when things went down hill fast. She needed that control back. She always had a reason not to had the scheduled sex. Each time it didn't happen I would get hurt then angry (I never once raised my hand to her or cheated). Ultimately things went back to her way. The last conversation we had about it, she said she felt she had given it a 110% effort to change and I just got mad anyway. She said that she didn't think she would ever be able to do enough to make me happy. Again, twice a month versus once a year would have made me extremely happy.

She said that she couldn't do it anymore. Then she said I can agree to sex when and if she wants to or I can leave. I told her that she had complete control of our sex life. She didn't agree. She said that I had as much control as her. But that was my choice, basically give her back the control or leave. She then added the next little caveat to help me out. If I do ask for a divorce, she will have to move back to Texas where we are from because she would need her family's support with the kids. I cannot transfer my job so easily. My choice was simple, I gave her back the control and kept my kids in my life.

Until I can come up with another plan, that's all I have at the moment.

[Hmcbart]

I hold up my end but she never does hers, at least not until she is sure I'm headed out the door. That's why the Charlie Brown and Lucy idea is so fitting.

Which is why... I don't make deals now unless... .

Example: of this... .in last MC... .she claimed I was not being agreeable to a chore list... .that the issue was me not agreeing... .(projection... she is one that couldn't agree... )  I countered with "help me understand your proposal"... .she of course had avoided making one... .but now was on the spot in from of MC.

So... .she coughs up a proposal... .a "deal" about chores... .all about making a chart for them. 

I said... .love it... .I agree to try that until next MC session... then we will evaluate.  You will create the chart tonight... .for me to review... .I'll "sign off"... .on the chart you create tonight. 

She nodded... tried to agree... without being specific.

I'm back in... .

So... just to clarify... ."ff wife is creating chart tonight... .I'll sign off on that chart tonight... we'll discuss at next MC... .this was ff wife idea... .and I was agreeable with this idea... ."  Do I have this correct.  Now my wife is a bit more exasperate... but says yes... and repeats back most of it.  MC is a bit curious as to why I am being so specific... but seems onboard... .

I don't give a hoot about the agreement... .wife can't follow them... .but she claims she can.  There has been no chart drawn up... .and at next MC session... it will be interesting to to watch her bob and weave about why she couldn't comply with the one agreement we made at last MC... .especially since I agreed entirely with her proposed agreement.

"Help me understand how I can help you follow through on your agreements... ."... .is going to be interesting to watch.

Was this your MC session? Or did I write this somewhere else and forget it?

[formflier]

Was this your MC session? Or did I write this somewhere else and forget it?

This was my last MC session... .and really just an example... .that you don't make "deals" with pwBPD.

[formflier]

She said that she couldn't do it anymore. Then she said I can agree to sex when and if she wants to or I can leave. I told her that she had complete control of our sex life. She didn't agree. She said that I had as much control as her. But that was my choice, basically give her back the control or leave. She then added the next little caveat to help me out. If I do ask for a divorce, she will have to move back to Texas where we are from because she would need her family's support with the kids. I cannot transfer my job so easily. My choice was simple, I gave her back the control and kept my kids in my life.

Did you confirm this with a lawyer... .?  Can this happen to you?  That she can decide where to take kids.

In my state... .my wife can't... .

This is something you need to have a clear understanding of... .before making any moves.

Not saying to make it a threat... .I'm saying you need information so avoid making a potentially hollow threat.

Hang in there.

From what I understand of your timeline... you are still early... .lots of improvement is possible.  It won't be a straight line... .3 steps forward... .2 back...

[Hmcbart]

I haven't confirmed with a lawyer yet but a lot of factors point to her getting what she wants. I moved her half way across the country, twice for my career. She doesn't work and doesn't have any higher education to fall back on.

I'm quietly working with a person in Texas for a transfer. If that happens, I will be able to back up my words. She has called me out on threats because she knows I won't do anything to hurt the kids or cause them anymore stress than they already deal with.

My knowledge of what's actually been happening is early in the timeline but what's happening has been for a while. I think I detached a long time ago and became a workaholic to save myself mentally. It was the MC and her chore list that woke me up.

I know the dance well... .just can't find the beat at the moment to get my rhythm to keep dancing.