Refused boundries told her to get stuff

[new2pain]

I have been reading everyday but haven't written for a while.

I have had LC with gf since she left with my replacement the day after Christmas(didnt know about him until xmas, caught her texting him) The day she got back she came to my house when I wasn't here and left Hershey Kisses and took pictures and cards. Later that night she sent pic of cards/pics and bottle of wild turkey and all she said was "drinking and memories" Since then we have had several discussions about her acknowledgeing BPD and wanting help, have seen her several times, sometimes positive, sometimes totally BPD. We have been talking about taking things slow, and both of us working on ourselves. Both going to T on our own(her second session was just today) and not putting pressure on relationship. I thought things were going well until this Sunday she was texting me about how, she was doing yard work, going to church etc... .Well found out it was all a lie... .She was out of town with replacement. I told her that we could not take our relationship step by step if she was going to continue lying to me and seeing him. If she couldn't agree to that she needed to come get her things from my house because I would not be an option if she was seeing him. She came over I tried talking to her and she said that she couldnt be in a relationship with me because she loved me and couldn't get the help she needed while with me?  And that she needed to be on her own but could not tell me she would stop seeing him, because it needed to be her decision. Tried telling her it was her decision to accept the no cheating boundary or not she then went BPD crying blaming me for kicking her out(I didnt kick her out, she has her own house and hasn't stayed here overnight since xmas) etc... .I really tried communication skills but to no avail, she took most of her stuff, refusing to talk and just saying over and over how she is a terrible person and that she gets it that I want her to get her stuff out.

I now feel like crap, I still totally love her but did not feel like I could bend on this boundary. She just left crying and sobbing, and my heart is screaming to call her and I am so confused.

Help

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[bruceli]

I have been reading everyday but haven't written for a while.

I have had LC with gf since she left with my replacement the day after Christmas(didnt know about him until xmas, caught her texting him) The day she got back she came to my house when I wasn't here and left Hershey Kisses and took pictures and cards. Later that night she sent pic of cards/pics and bottle of wild turkey and all she said was "drinking and memories" Since then we have had several discussions about her acknowledgeing BPD and wanting help, have seen her several times, sometimes positive, sometimes totally BPD. We have been talking about taking things slow, and both of us working on ourselves. Both going to T on our own(her second session was just today) and not putting pressure on relationship. I thought things were going well until this Sunday she was texting me about how, she was doing yard work, going to church etc... .Well found out it was all a lie... .She was out of town with replacement. I told her that we could not take our relationship step by step if she was going to continue lying to me and seeing him. If she couldn't agree to that she needed to come get her things from my house because I would not be an option if she was seeing him. She came over I tried talking to her and she said that she couldnt be in a relationship with me because she loved me and couldn't get the help she needed while with me?  And that she needed to be on her own but could not tell me she would stop seeing him, because it needed to be her decision. Tried telling her it was her decision to accept the no cheating boundary or not she then went BPD crying blaming me for kicking her out(I didnt kick her out, she has her own house and hasn't stayed here overnight since xmas) etc... .I really tried communication skills but to no avail, she took most of her stuff, refusing to talk and just saying over and over how she is a terrible person and that she gets it that I want her to get her stuff out.

I now feel like crap, I still totally love her but did not feel like I could bend on this boundary. She just left crying and sobbing, and my heart is screaming to call her and I am so confused.

Help

PD logic at it's finest.

[JRT]

What Bruce said... .

Great that she is self aware... .great that she is talking... .great that she is seeing a T... .all else epic fail.

[new2pain]

The saga continues,

Its been a weird week even for us, I havent seen her since she got her stuff, Some texts the next day that now SHE knows we will never have a chance because I made her get her stuff,  then Sunday some hints she wanted to do something with me, I already had plans and stuck to them, in the past I would have changed them to be with her.

Some texts that started last night, just really small talk but reminding me that she had another appointment with T today, and that she wanted to believe that if we both kept working on ourselves it might work. She did acknowledge that relationship issues were mostly hers, and she was thinking about asking her T if it would help for us to see T together.

We have been texting most of the day, and supposed to have dinner together. I have let her initiate the texts, but have responded and continued the conversations not pushing any issues.

Do I talk about relationship, or see if she brings it up?

[formflier]

Do I talk about relationship, or see if she brings it up?

It really depends on your goal.

Tell us your goal with this r/s

[new2pain]

My ultimate goal is to try and save the relationship.

I know that it is going to be difficult, if it can even happen.

We have known each other for 6 years and were together for over a year and a half.

My uncompromising boundry is the cheating, just found out about that on xmas, and dont think it had been going on long. I think the idea of spending holidays with family really triggered things. Since then is when she has acknowledged that she thinks it is BPD and has been to T three times, she had a real bad experience with T as little girl and this is a major step for her.

We had discussion that now she is trying to work on her issues, that we should take things slow and each work on our selves and hopefully that will put us both in a place where we can rebuild our relationship 

[Notwendy]

It seems to me that you set your boundary. Basically, that you do not want to be in a r/s with cheating. She broke that boundary, and you enforced your side of it ( you can't control what she does, just what you do).

If you cheat then there will be no r/s with me. She cheated.

Now, you are both sad, you want to save the r/s... which means you are going back on your boundary, and then, there must be a new one. I assume it would be- we are back together as long as you don't cheat.

Boundaries are really about us, not them. You can say " you will not cheat" but you have no control over what she is going to do, only what you are going to do.

How does one enforce a no cheating boundary on a spouse/partner and stay in a r/s?  I really have no idea. I do know people who have repaired a relationship after infidelity-( if they have made fidelity a principle of the r/s, some people have open ones ) and they are glad they did, but it has taken much work and rebuilding trust, along with the promise not to cheat again. I have no idea how this would work with serial cheating.

[new2pain]

I know it seems weird that you would have to say no cheating is a boundry. But the boundry discussion was held after the cheating and break up.  The discovery of cheating, her acknowledging of a problem and begining T has all beem since Christma.  The cconsequence of not aaccepting the boundry, which she agreed needed to be done, but had to be on her terms was her getting her stuff, from my house. Which was done. My boundry was we would not be in sameplace our relationship was without the T which she is going and the understanding that we would take it slow,... which we are.  My question is based on all that has gone on this week and that I have not seen her since she got her stuff, do I bring up relationship or let her?

[Notwendy]

I have no idea, but the r/s boundary is yours, and you told her to get her stuff, so you will need to have some sort of agreement before being together again. It takes two to be in a r/s and two to want it, so IMHO, you should know what you want, under what conditions, regardless of what she wants.

I think every couple determines the circumstances of a r/s and I think they have to have an agreement on the "big" things- those being things that the people value- like no cheating, but there could be others. If one of your values is your religion, and having a family raised in your religion, than a r/s with someone from a different religion might not be a good idea. This doesn't mean that interfaith couples can't work, but those couples also have to agree on how this should work. Another big one is children- if one wants them and the other doesn't then the r/s isn't easy.

These agreements are independent of feelings, attraction , or how wonderful the other person. Two people could be wonderful and incompatible.

If you are to have a r/s with her based on what you value, then I guess you will need to know those values and communicate them. Yes, it seems like a no brainer to have no cheating as a boundary, but all you can do is state that is is your value, and decide what you will do if that boundary is broken.

[new2pain]

Notwendy,

I do agree and at this point I dont think we are currently in a relationship but trying to determine if we can be in a meaningful relationship.

We are both working independently on ourselves and have discussed that we would ultimately like to be where we were in our relationship but both agree that it will take time.

[Notwendy]

That's a good start. When you asked if you should bring up the r/s, I guess bring it up as part of your goals with her. I don't know if it makes a difference if you bring it up or she does, but I suspect that she will be waiting for you to take the lead, since you are the one that asked her to get her things.

Also, with people with BPD, the "hard stuff" of relationships are hard to discuss. I think reading the lessons here on how to set boundaries, handle it if she is dysregulated, validate her, and other ways to help would be ways to help with the discussions you two have.

When I said to know your values, for me personally, it is hard to hold on to my own ideas in a r/s with my H because he will sometimes attempt to talk me out of them or blame me for what I want. He may even say " you don't want that" if only you didn't do X... .or say X...   It is easy to be confused. Your gf may even blame you for her cheating.

[new2pain]

Yes, she blames me

[waverider]

There are two types of boundaries

in your case that would be

~the dealbreaker: I will not be in a RS with someone who cheated on me

~ The situation distancer: I will not be in a RS with someone who is cheating on me. This is applicable whilst the transgression occurs only

This has to do with resentment/wounding/trust which option you choose. Only you can decide.

The problem with the second option it can push issues underground.

In her eyes she will not hold responsibility for anything, even if she makes a big drama in the moment about it being her fault. To cope she will pass the buck. This means lesson/boundary is not appreciated. The issue is repeated.

Always stick to the bigger principle, rather than getting distracted in individual issues.

The core issue here is trust and honesty. Cheating is a sub issue to this. Complete honesty and trust is unlikely as denial and misleading is at the core of a pwBPDs coping mechanism.

Is it the cheating that grieves you only, or is it the deeper problem of lack of complete trust? This will remain regardless of what the outcome of a cheating boundary is.

How much lack of trust can you live with?

[Notwendy]

They project their bad feelings on to others.

[new2pain]

I truly think that overtime trust can be earned. But I believe that takes effort by both of us. Over course of rs she did dislose so much of what has happened to her that I dont think she has ever told anyone else. I saw that each time we got to a point in our relationship that would make normal couple closer we always had to take a step back, and other indicator,  that since xmas and being on this site and reading several books and seeing a T, im hoping I KNOW BIG HOPE that if she can address alot of the things that has happened to her it will help to enable us to have a healthier relationship. Im sure im being a little over ooptimistic in that in less than a week of us discussing BPD she has been seeing a T. Im not expecting miracles and continue to work on me.

[new2pain]

Back from dinner. Things seemed to go well, She brought up relationship by talking about her appointment with T and how that was going, she commented that T wasnt making diagnosis yet and that she was going to tell T she really thought she was BPD, that it scares her because if she is not then she feels she is a horrible person without a reason. We talked some about how we both felt there were many more good times than bad. As we had decided that we were going to take things slow and step by step, we agreed that tonight was a step and a half, as it is really the first time in a long time we talked about our rs without any blame or arguments or talk turning into silent treatment. Dropped her off at her house feeling good about how it went.

[new2pain]

Ugh, I should have known the day after a good day would turn into confusion.

This morning started out good a few texts during the day, some talk about tomorrow. I have a mtg where she works and she asked what time, if I was going to be able to see her. And then this evening bamm ST.

Is this because she was open with me, did she feel like we were getting to close for her comfort zone?

So confusing, im trying to use communication skills, but I just have no idea how to handle this, when I cant see it coming.

[waverider]

Ugh, I should have known the day after a good day would turn into confusion.

Ok now you know this,^ be prepared for this v

So confusing, Im trying to use communication skills, but I just have no idea how to handle this, when I cant see it coming.

It is not important when it comes, but you do know it will come.

This why being prepared and consistent is the key. Rather than just reacting to the mood of the moment, as the next moment it may be gone, and you are left out of sync.

The biggest issue with BPD is not the individual issues and dramas it is the constant backsliding from forward steps. Insights from our pwBPD give us great hopes only to have them snatched back.

Trust may be earned, but it is inevitably spent again. In the immediate term gains must not be taken as permanent.

Dont keep over analyzing whether you could, or could not, have stopped it. It is going to happen sooner or later. Just concentrate on doing your best and coping with the dramas as they arise. Otherwise you will start to focus on failures.

[new2pain]

Thank you waverider,

So for now just wait for her to contact me, or just send good morning text and see if she responds and if not just wait?

Before finding this site I would have just kept trying over and over, until she rresponded but now I see that was giving her more power.

[waverider]

Taking a back seat is hard to do, but is often necessary. It is easier to see the bigger picture from the back seat

[new2pain]

Well I sent her a text this morning that just said good morning, she replied back right away. We did text a few times and she had said she had a rough day yesterday, and didnt get home from work until around ten. She did call me to tell me about what was going on at work, and we talked about possibly having dinner tonight. I was at a mtg where she works and she was out of office, she did text just to ask how my mtg was going... .

I think in a normal relationship if there is such a thing

I would have got a text or call last night saying she was working late, instead I guess I am programmed to believe I was getting silent treatment, glad I didnt do what have been my norm a month ago and kept trying to contact her.

[waverider]

I think in a normal relationship if there is such a thing

I would have got a text or call last night saying she was working late, instead I guess I am programmed to believe I was getting silent treatment, glad I didnt do what have been my norm a month ago and kept trying to contact her.

This is why taking a breath and not being reactive is advised. We have been programmed to assume drama is desecending,  and inadvertently bring it on

[new2pain]

Im trying to learn these lessons here.  Im happy with drama-less, and know if this rs works it will never be drama free

[waverider]

Im trying to learn these lessons here.  Im happy with drama-less, and know if this rs works it will never be drama free

Correct there will always be drama, the trick is to stay in the audience and not get dragged on to stage to play your part.

[new2pain]

Well dinner didnt happen, but she did call to let me know she was at wrk late and wouldn't be able to make it.  I just replied that I understood that how working a long day would make her tired. We texted during the night about how things were going for her at wrk, as she is having some problems with coworkers feeling she is getting special assignments without earning it.  Because we are in same profession and I know guys she works with I bbelieve they feel this... I told her that she was getting assignments based on her work ethic and productivity and it was easier for them to accept that she is getting special treatment than accepting responsibility, and that I was proud of her work achievements. A while later I got this from her;

"Well still crying... .i dnt know y... .bc all the emotion, i have been holding back i guess... .Just want to b able to let go of whatever it is thats holdinh me back from being happy. AKA... .u"

We talked more during the night and things were going good.

This morning I asked her if she wanted to spend the day with me Saturday she said she didnt think she could spend the whole day with me because it was to emotional and that she was scared it would make her want to jump back in to fast... .

Really?

I had appointment with T this morning and we talked about how much has happened in last 40 days, with her acknowledging what problem is and her already being in T,. T said it is very unusual for her to be accepting things so fast and it was encouraging.

[new2pain]

I hadn't heard from her since around lunch when we had talked about couples counseling in addition to our individual T. She just now text and told me that her T was going to be out of town for 2 weeks so she had scheduled appt for this evening... .Twice this week Her T had also asked her how she felt about us going together... .She said that right now she thought it was good, but as it got closer she would be scared... .To me this is big step that she is even talking about it... .

How do I encourage her without causing her to push?

[JohnLove]

Keep it light, be supportive, don't invalidate her.

I feel your pain, new2pain. Hang in there.

[new2pain]

Thanks... .She wants to go... .Have appointment Wednesday.

I know it will take time, but very happy/nervous that she agreed to go.