Enablers

[funfunctional]

Hi,

I have found that I have zero tolerance or compassion for enablers of people with BPD.   Take for example my BPD MIL who her husband has "allowed" her to mistreat my husband and also be damaging and abusive to myself and my two kids (her step-grandchildren).   Stuff like calling my daughter at age 12 the kind of girl that hangs on street corners when she is so sweet and NICE.     She has not accepted or acknowledged the 3 of us and in fact tried to erradicate us from my husbands life thru the use of lies and maniupulation.

Well that story is old at this point... .more recent connection... .

What really ticked off my husband and I was his dad saying "you should talk to your mom because it would be good for HER".   We have been no contact for over 3 years.     In my opinion,   this shows his level of support for her that although she did a long list of terrible things it is our responsiblity to be nice to her as she drives over us repeatedly with a mack truck (metaphorical).   

What about us?  That is the problem with enablers.  They are so caught up with the BPD person they disregard common human rules of behavioral conduct.  My husband told him "no way".   I don't ever want to speak to her again.  My husband is 100% right.  Her behavior and wrong doings in the past have been so bad that there is no going back.  Sick or no sick... .why would one grab a hot skewer when they already got 3rd degree burns the first time.

UGGGH... .I have no respect for this man at all.   

[Sofie]

I am totally with you here. I grew up with uNPD/BPD mom and enabler dad. I used to harbour such anger towards my mother, but in recent years this anger has changed direction towards my - now dead - father.

My mother is a sick person - I don't mean to absolve her of blame, but she has a condition that makes her the way she is. She had a rotten childhood which I have no doubt shaped her, she never managed to free herself from it and blindly reproduced it in her parenting of my sister and I. My father on the other hand... .he was a kind man, but he just looked on. Never stood up for us and always asked us to bear with mom and taught us that it was our job to make her happy. Ugh.

[Seoulsister]

What really ticked off my husband and I was his dad saying "you should talk to your mom because it would be good for HER".   We have been no contact for over 3 years.     In my opinion,   this shows his level of support for her that although she did a long list of terrible things it is our responsiblity to be nice to her as she drives over us repeatedly with a mack truck (metaphorical).   

I can relate to this! My FIL always demands compassion for MIL. He demands apologies to her to keep the peace, regardless of her terrible behavior.

What makes me so sad is she is the only one in that family allowed to have emotions. My husband and siblings were never validated and FIL didn't explain her diagnosis while they were growing up. There was no attempt to help them understand her diagnosis or to protect them from her! He constantly threw his children under the bus to keep MIL happy. I can't imagine how difficult FIL's life is with her, married to her for several decades, but I feel it's cruel to protect yourself at the expense of your own children. I resent him for that.

[Harri]

Hi Funf!   

I don't really have much to add that won't end up being a total rant here so I am going to keep this short.

Enabler's/Co-dependent Non's not working on recovery are, in my opinion, far far worse than the person with BPD.  The non and the BPD seem to feed off each other with each causing their own damage to the kids and others close to them.  Like Sophie, I had and still have, some anger for my uBPD mother, but my father is a whole different and far bigger ball of rage.   

I am impressed that your husband said "no" so strongly and I am so happy for you that he obviously has his head on right in terms of supporting you and your kids and putting you all and himself first.   

[funfunctional]

Hi Seoulsister & Sofie & Harry:

All of you summed it up:  WE are not allowed to have emotions.   AND YES,  I have a just as much anger at my FIL for allowing her behavior.   I see a pattern with the BPD people.   My sister seems to have BPD and my dad enables her.  Her BF enables her cause he is another pathetic story who needs a roof overhead.   

I was proud of my husband for saying NO.   AGREE!    I am in this place in my life where I am protective of my life and my kids and my friends and what is left of my "family".

We deserve peace.  We deserve happiness.   Enablers remove the power of getting real help for BPD people because the BPD condition is often serving them emotionally in some way.   OR, they are just scared to death to speak up.  Either way I don't have to listen to an enabler being a spokesperson for a person who is badly behaving and then want me to kiss their BU$$.    AMEN!   

[downandin]

I am the husband of an uBPD wife, and I usually post on the Staying Board.  I haven't been here in a very long time mostly because I guess you would say I have become a master 'enabler.'  I have come to find that by being everything she wants me to be, I am not attacked any longer.  I often read this forum too, because I have three wonderful stepsons, and I am always trying to understand how all this affects them.  This thread has probably been the most enlightening thing I've ever read on this entire site.  I have understood that my rage is a serious problem for my sons, especially the youngest, because he has been so close to me and has heard far too much of my issues.  I know it was wrong to confide in him, but I had nobody else.  Now, he is struggling with a psychiatric issue of his own, severe OCD.  I know that I have contributed.  Now I read this thread where I hear others talking about the problems with 'enablers.'  My question is, how do I stop being an 'enabler?'  I keep the rages of my wife at bay by enabling.  This is very confusing.  Do I need to just accept that I must be an eternal whipping boy?  I love my stepsons immensely.  They are the only reason I am still in this, but I now see they will probably end up hating me no matter what I've tried to do keep the peace.

[littlebirdcline]

Amen and Hallelujah!  I can relate to something in everyone's posts.  I have gone through phases of being really angry at my nonBPD dad for not standing up for us, but honestly, as a child, he took the brunt of it.  Besides emotional incest as a serious issue with my BPDmom and I, her anger and paranoia issues were primarily directed at my dad as we were growing up.  That changed when we became more independent and stopped following her party line.  He will acknowledge behind her back that she has problems, but will do nothing to stop her.  Even when it means losing his relationship with my son, who he adores.

I had an interesting thought recently.  I had a psychology professor come into my theatre class to discuss some things with my actors.  He brought in a handout about personality disorders.  I, of course, was listening to the borderline part, but the Dependent Personality disorder caught my attention.  I started wondering if my dad has this.  All the characteristics fit him perfectly, and the fact that I think his mother might have been BPD adds to it.  I guess my question now is whether there are conditions, like dependent personality disorder, that might be more likely to attract and stay with a BPD suffer?

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws to make excuses for my dad.  Thoughts?

[downandin]

I'm sorry, but there's something else I want to add to my previous post.  My stepsons want me to 'keep the peace' and have wanted me to for years now.  They recognize that if I stand my ground or set boundaries that it will lead their mother to disregulation and rage.  The youngest will even go so far as to try to make jokes to try and stop her rages once they get started.  Then, when we are alone, he will basically tell me I should just let her have her way (or think she is getting her way).  So, aren't they really being 'enablers by proxy' so to speak.  They recognize that if I don't continually give in, she will lose it.  Again, this is so utterly confusing and confounding.  It's like an old 'Farside' cartoon I used to have hanging in my dorm room back in college.  The devil was standing with a pitchfork at a guy's back in front of two doors, one which said 'damned if you do" and one that said "dammed if you dont."

[Sofie]

I had an interesting thought recently.  I had a psychology professor come into my theatre class to discuss some things with my actors.  He brought in a handout about personality disorders.  I, of course, was listening to the borderline part, but the Dependent Personality disorder caught my attention.  I started wondering if my dad has this.  All the characteristics fit him perfectly, and the fact that I think his mother might have been BPD adds to it.  I guess my question now is whether there are conditions, like dependent personality disorder, that might be more likely to attract and stay with a BPD suffer?

Maybe I'm just grasping at straws to make excuses for my dad.  Thoughts?

I can relate to this, as I have had similar thoughts about my father. He grew up with an extremely dominant mother and a father who, suffering from severe post-traumatic stress as a WWII-veteran, was basically a passive and docile emotional wreck. While I don't think my grandmother had BPD or NPD, she certainly tried to run the lives of my father and his brothers into her old age, so no doubt that "submitting" to a dominant woman came natural to my father. Contrary to uNPD/BPD mom, he had it much more together, though, and his ethical compass remained intact - I don't think he was emotionally impaired and his worldview as twisted as my mom's. He knew the difference between right and wrong with regards to what you should subject a child to and what you shouldn't, which I am sure my mother didn't. The way I see it: He could have chosen to help and get help - he chose not no.

[Harri]

Hi downandin.  I just spent quite a bit of time going through your posts from the beginning to get a better feel for your situation.  I see that your stepsons are now all in their late teens early 20's which makes things a bit difficult in terms of stopping any damage from your wife's behaviors or your own co-dependency/enabling behaviors.  They can still be helped though.  I think one of the kindest and most productive things you can do at this point is to own up to your own behavior to your stepsons, especially your youngest.  I did not see a whole lot of info about your step sons and what you did to protect them (or not) or even how old they were when you married their mother.  Perhaps elaborating/reflecting a bit on their experiences in the home would help us give you some more feedback.  But I think owning up and saying "I did ___ and I was wrong to do so and I am so very sorry" would be a good place to start.

I have understood that my rage is a serious problem for my sons, especially the youngest, because he has been so close to me and has heard far too much of my issues.  I know it was wrong to confide in him, but I had nobody else.  Now, he is struggling with a psychiatric issue of his own, severe OCD.  I know that I have contributed.

I am glad you are aware that you did indeed contribute to dysfunction they were (still are?) surrounded by at home.  In reviewing your posts, I did not see any references to *your* rage so I am not sure what your rage looks/sounds like.  Is it yelling and throwing stuff kind of rage or is it the deep burning rage that boils inside and spews out in passive aggressive ways?  or is it something else?  

Please look up the terms emotional incest and parentification because it sounds like that is what you have done with your youngest at least.  If you have not already, it might be a good idea to let the people treating your youngest for severe OCD to know you believe their mother has BPD and that you are co-dependent and used your son as your confidant.  I say that not to get in your face about it or to hurt you.  I mention it because I think it is significant to his treatment and IMO his needs should always be paramount.  

My question is, how do I stop being an 'enabler?'  I keep the rages of my wife at bay by enabling.  This is very confusing.  :)o I need to just accept that I must be an eternal whipping boy?  I love my stepsons immensely.  They are the only reason I am still in this, but I now see they will probably end up hating me no matter what I've tried to do keep the peace.

You stop being an enabler by setting and maintaining boundaries, saying no and detaching.  You said you keep your wife's rages at bay by enabling.  I am going to challenge you here on a couple of things.  How's that working for you?  How is your physical and emotional health?  What about your sons?  At what cost have you 'kept the peace'?  You mention losing your core self, all three of your stepsons are emotionally damaged (by your own report) and quite frankly your life sounds miserable.  What have you achieved by keeping the peace?  

You ask, ":)oes that mean I have to be her eternal whipping boy?" Yes.  You choose to be submissive to her fear and rage and her emotional blackmail.  Being an enabler pretty much guarantees that you will be her whipping boy, so yes, by your own choice, you are doomed to being her whipping boy.  Some  of the biggest rages and most hurtful things my parents ever did were silent.  The absolute worst and most damaging things my father ever did to me was to remain silent, ignore, bury his head in the sand, and maintain the peace.  Both of my parents told me they stayed with the other 'for us kids'.  <--- More damaging guilt and placing responsibility on the kids.

My stepsons want me to 'keep the peace' and have wanted me to for years now.  They recognize that if I stand my ground or set boundaries that it will lead their mother to disregulation and rage.  The youngest will even go so far as to try to make jokes to try and stop her rages once they get started.  Then, when we are alone, he will basically tell me I should just let her have her way (or think she is getting her way).  So, aren't they really being 'enablers by proxy' so to speak.

Your stepsons are enablers because that is what they learned by watching you (and perhaps their father who abandoned them and your wife's second husband?)  As a child and a teen I wanted nothing more than to have the mood swings, rages, mind games, emotional and sexual abuse to stop and I would have done anything to make it stop.  Back then though, the only way I knew to make it stop was to enable, change who I was at my core and submit.  Of course your stepsons encourage you to let her have her way... .it does not mean it was the best choice or the healthy way to act when in an abusive situation.  Their enabling is learned behavior and it is a sign of their own dysfunction IMO.  It does not make your enabling a good thing though.  

They are the only reason I am still in this, but I now see they will probably end up hating me no matter what I've tried to do keep the peace.

Not all of us who post here are angry with their enabling/codependent Non parents.  Regardless, is this about how your stepsons will view you or is this about you regaining your own self and perhaps helping them in the process?  

I look forward to talking with you more about this.  I wonder though if your posts on this thread might get more responses if it were split to a separate thread?  Maybe you could ask a mod to do so?

Take care.

[funfunctional]

Hello Downandin,

Well immediately my first thoughts after reading your post:

1)  I generalized in my post and clearly was touching upon situations where people are not living with that BPD person

2)  There are Enablers who are aware but are scared as they are trying to maintain a balance in a household for the sake of KIDS

3)  I really love your response to my post and my heart really goes out to you

I read your post and I get it.   You are in a home and love and care about your 3 step sons and their mom you are walking eggshells around.   You are angry, frustrated and instead of going "head to head" with her you are acting angry and not always thinking clearly and sharing adult issues with kids.    Well,  I am not criticizing you here as we are all human and clearly this youngest child has an enourmous heart but I can't say you need to blame yourself for his issues.

Now rage is another issue.   When I think of rage I think of out of control and damaging anger left unattended.    It is like the pot left boiling too long.  You have NO OUTLIT.   She is supposed to be your partner but you can't share how you feel.  Well that stinks!   

Other people are posting and I am glad.  I don't have answers except I think she needs to be called out on her  behavior.   Does she have something over you?  Like if you challenge her does she deny something?  Does she threaten to throw you out?  Call police?   If all the gloves are off and you tell her how you feel what would happen? 

I guess I have more questions than answers but so impressed that you have shared so much here.

I think you may be more of a victim than an enabler but also you may have some issues of your own that (trust me we all do) but often that keeps us in a dysfunctional situation.

[Panda39]

I can relate to the frustration with enablers because I am a "recovering codependent enabler"  .  I was married to an alcoholic for 19 years.  Since coming here I have also realized it wasn't just my marriage but every serious relationship I've ever had I was the rescuer, nurturer, caretaker... .

I left my marriage almost 6 years ago.  I finally had enough, finally found my self-worth, finally asked for help, finally overcame depression, finally overcame FEAR, finally figured out that I couldn't "fix" my husband, finally figured out that (even though I did my best to protect my son) this was not a good environment for my son, and finally figured out the only reason I stayed, felt trapped, was depressed... .was my own thinking. I couldn't change my husband but I could change what I was doing.

Although I am in a healthier frame of mind old habits die hard so I have really been working on letting go of the things I should regarding my current SO... .stop trying to control, live in the now don't obsess about what might or might not happen in the future, ask for what I need... .my boundaries, try to detach from the things I can't control... .

I'm currently reading Codependent No More by Melody Beattie.  There is a section in the very beginning listing characteristics of codependence, so hard to read, to face, made me cry because I remember how painful that place was and made me cry in a good way too because that was the old me I'm moving in a new direction now.

As hard and as frustrating as it is to watch the enablers in our lives and even on these boards we can't make people do something they aren't ready to do or change things they don't see or be brave when their scared.  What we can do is live our lives and demonstrate another way. 

[Harri]

Hi Panda!  Thanks for sharing more of your own history.  I am so very glad you were able to get yourself out of a bad situation and work on your own issues.  I also consider myself a recovering co-dependent/enabler and I too cringe when I look at some of the characteristics.

Regarding your son, have you ever had a conversation with him about some of the things that happened in the home? 

As hard and as frustrating as it is to watch the enablers in our lives and even on these boards we can't make people do something they aren't ready to do or change things they don't see or be brave when their scared.  What we can do is live our lives and demonstrate another way.

Agreed though i do think we can plant a seed or two and hope they sprout!  I  know I can use all of that and then some.

[Panda39]

Regarding your son, have you ever had a conversation with him about some of the things that happened in the home?

We have talked about it in terms of how it affected us. I'll tell more of my story... .hope I'm not hijacking... .it is a good enablers tale... .

The alcohol was always present but I would describe my ex as a "functional" alcoholic because he could hold a job.  My ex was in the Navy when I met him and we all drank... .it was a culture of macho guys, marlboro cigarettes and Budweiser beer.  I had no experience with alcoholism so I didn't really recognize the problem until I was a couple of years into my marriage.  I realized by then that my husband had a dad (who died before we met) that was most likely an alcoholic too, his mom allowed my husband and friends to drink in her home when they were teens, his dad died of a heart attack right in front of him at the dinner table when he was 14 years old and from there on out he began helping support his mother.  All the pieces of the puzzle were there for the making of an alcoholic.

So a few years into my marriage I began to think about leaving, I didn't like the passed out husband, the drunk and useless husband, the drunk and embarrassing husband.

Then I got pregnant not by choice and not by accident but because my husband sabotaged a condom because he could feel me slipping away.  I chose to have my baby, I wanted him, I wanted to be a mom, and thought I'd be a good one.  So my husband's plan worked... .I stayed. 

3 months after my son was born my husband had his first DUI and totaled our car.  I was actually happy about it, I thought finally my husband will see that he has a problem and he will seek help.  Nope... .that was when my marriage officially died.

Now I had a 3 month old son that I couldn't support financially on my own so I felt that I had no other option but to stay... .can we all say CODEPENDENT!

Most of my marriage my husband and I lived as roommates he did his thing and I did mine... .we lived separately in the same house. Overtime in this empty relationship I slid into depression right as my son was entering his teens... .my timing couldn't have been worse.

My son's relationship with his dad was more as a sibling or friend he never called him "dad" he always called him by his first name, he did not see him as his parent.  His dad loves him very much and was never overtly abusive to my son... .no verbal abuse, no physical abuse but what does having an alcoholic dad do emotionally?

I have always been the "responsible" parent.  I made sure my son's material needs were met, that he participated in activities, I went to school conferences, went on field trips, taught him how to throw a football, picked him up at the bus stop... .but what was I modeling for him in terms of my relationship with his dad? Then I slid into depression the last couple years of my marriage and became less functional.

How did this affect my son?  He had 2 parents with low self esteem he learned that too, he was bullied, he has social anxiety, and can slip into some depression and he is absolutely anti-alcohol and anti- drugs. (He's not modeling dad so will he model me? be codependent too?) I would say the biggest effect on my son is with his confidence. Social situations are particularly difficult although I see some progress there.  He can slide into victim mode and he was a victim of dysfunctional parents but I hope that he has also learned that people can change and take charge of their lives and live in healthier ways.  I have talked to him about the choices I made, why I did some of the things I did, what I would change if I could do it again (model healthier behaviors) and I've apologized for not always being emotionally available. I've admitted my own issues. 

When my son was 16 I woke up from my depression with the help of an old dear friend and started to take charge of my life.  Over the course of a year I left my marriage, re-developed a social life, and started doing what I wanted for the first time in years.

My son finally had a happy and healthy mom that was setting a good example for him.

His dad on the other hand found his "rock bottom" he lost his wife, his son, had his 3rd DUI, lost his job, and his retirement (pulled out early for attorney fees) and finally got sober.  He has been sober for the last 3 years and my son calls him "dad" for the first time.  His dad earned his respect.

My son is now 21 working and paying his way through school both confidence boosters, he is making some friends at work and at school... .progress... .he has 2 parents that showed him that people can change, and we have been talking about starting him with therapy for the social anxiety which is making him feel stuck.  We are looking for the right therapist maybe he can explore his childhood too.

As hard and as frustrating as it is to watch the enablers in our lives and even on these boards we can't make people do something they aren't ready to do or change things they don't see or be brave when their scared.  What we can do is live our lives and demonstrate another way.

Agreed though i do think we can plant a seed or two and hope they sprout!  I  know I can use all of that and then some.

 

[downandin]

Hi downandin.  

I look forward to talking with you more about this.  I wonder though if your posts on this thread might get more responses if it were split to a separate thread?  Maybe you could ask a mod to do so?

Take care.

I would love to talk more about it, perhaps I'll start my own thread here.  I don't want to hijack this one any further.  I will say this, though, I had never seen the anger for 'non' parents until I read this thread, so that is why I replied.  The biggest difference for me is that my wife sees our sons as pretty much totally 'white' and me as totally 'black.'  So, 90% of the time she is perfect to them.  I get all the bad things thrown at me.  She has never been abusive in any way at all to the boys, at least nothing I've ever seen.  There have been a few rages when they did something she didn't like, but they have been very, very few and far between.  They are more afraid of her anger in general and when it is directed at me.

[Harri]

Hi downandin.  

The biggest difference for me is that my wife sees our sons as pretty much totally 'white' and me as totally 'black.'  So, 90% of the time she is perfect to them.  I get all the bad things thrown at me.  She has never been abusive in any way at all to the boys, at least nothing I've ever seen.  There have been a few rages when they did something she didn't like, but they have been very, very few and far between.  They are more afraid of her anger in general and when it is directed at me.

Just one very important thing that I think a lot of the Non parents (and nons in general) on this board do not realize:  being split white is just as, if not more damaging, than being split black.  I don't care what type of relationship it is, while being split white may feel a bit more comfortable than being split black, it is still part of a primitive defense mechanism used by the pwBPD and it is not real.  Children being split white carries with it a whole host of issues ranging from having no sense of self (a BPDish in the making) to being co-dependent (aka enabler) and a plethora of things in between.  Just witnessing someone being abused, especially over time, is traumatic and can set the stage for a whole host of emotional problems.   Being split white *is* abuse and IMO it is far harder to work through and recognize it and the damaging effects it can have than being split black where the abuse is pretty darn clear.  Basically, being split white is a bigger mind-___.

I did hijack this thread as this particular point is far too important and I see this misconception come up time and again.  You just get to be the lucky guy who reads it directly.   As always, take what fits and leave what doesn't.

[Panda39]

Hi downandin. 

The biggest difference for me is that my wife sees our sons as pretty much totally 'white' and me as totally 'black.'  So, 90% of the time she is perfect to them.  I get all the bad things thrown at me.  She has never been abusive in any way at all to the boys, at least nothing I've ever seen.  There have been a few rages when they did something she didn't like, but they have been very, very few and far between.  They are more afraid of her anger in general and when it is directed at me.

Just one very important thing that I think a lot of the Non parents (and nons in general) on this board do not realize:  being split white is just as, if not more damaging, than being split black.  I don't care what type of relationship it is, while being split white may feel a bit more comfortable than being split black, it is still part of a primitive defense mechanism used by the pwBPD and it is not real.  Children being split white carries with it a whole host of issues ranging from having no sense of self (a BPDish in the making) to being co-dependent (aka enabler) and a plethora of things in between.  Just witnessing someone being abused, especially over time, is traumatic and can set the stage for a whole host of emotional problems.   Being split white *is* abuse and IMO it is far harder to work through and recognize it and the damaging effects it can have than being split black where the abuse is pretty darn clear.  Basically, being split black is a bigger mind-___.

I did hijack this thread as this particular point is far too important and I see this misconception come up time and again.  You just get to be the lucky guy who reads it directly.   As always, take what fits and leave what doesn't.

Hi Harri,

What a really good point.

I have witnessed this with my SO's Daughters and their uBPDmom... .D14 painted black and D18 painted white.  My SO and I have talked about this because we always felt D18 who said she could "deal" with ther mother was not really dealing with anything at all but just took the road with less conflict... .once her parents divorced she became the "parentified" codependent caretaker  of their uBPDmom who has always portrayed herself as a victim.  Unfortunately or actually maybe fortunately in spite of being the painted white her mother screwed D18 over in a big way by not paying for college as promised. D18 now knows that her mother is not a victim but that she is actually a perpetrator.  Both girls have been low contact with their mother for the last 2 months, basically communicating via texts.

[Harri]

Hi Panda!  Your story made me cry and smile.  Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it.  As a fellow enabler, it is good to read a success story.  I still catch myself enabling sometimes and lord only knows how often I do it without even being aware!  To read your story and see where you were and know where you are now is so encouraging.  I am also struck by your ability to admit your behaviors to your son and talk so openly about it.  I think that is so important.  I catch myself having expectations of perfection... .and then I am reminded again and again that it is how we handle the mistakes we make that is so important.  You son is fortunate to have you and though he may have some issues as a result of his childhood experiences, you are there supporting him (without enabling him I'm sure!).  Job well done Panda. 

I read a post about your SOs daughter and the college tuition fiasco.  It is a hard lesson to learn and I hope for her sake that the learning curve is a vertical line when it comes to knowing she can't depend on her mother. 

Anyway, thanks again for sharing.   

Funfuctional, i completely hijacked your thread and i am sorry for that. 

[Panda39]

As a fellow enabler, it is good to read a success story.  I still catch myself enabling sometimes and lord only knows how often I do it without even being aware! 

Hi Harri,

I can relate to this... .I'm still working on it too. 

I came to bpdfamily because of my SO's uBPDxw and everyone here has helped me so much with her and the complicated issues of sharing children with her. I'm still here for those reasons but I'm also working on me, there are so many other codependents here that even though I wasn't in a relationship with a pwBPD directly I fit right in.

It's about working to become the people we want to be I'm not sure it ever ends. It's all a journey... .learn... .grow... .

learn some more... .grow some more... .

I read a post about your SOs daughter and the college tuition fiasco.  It is a hard lesson to learn and I hope for her sake that the learning curve is a vertical line when it comes to knowing she can't depend on her mother.

I read that description to my SO and be both laughed because it's right on the money.  D18 is not talking to her mom and will not be buying the BS again anytime soon... .if ever.

Thanks for all your support and encouragement.