Could my ex have BPD?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Hey guys, this is my first post and I'm far from an expert in psychology, but here goes nothing.

I'm beginning to believe fairly whole-heartedly that my recent ex of 2 years (she broke up with me) has Borderline Personality Disorder. Of course, I didn't really pay attention to the signs during our relationship nor know what they are, but I've done some reading and want a second opinion. We are both 24, closing in on 25.

General Ideas:

• Her mother has some pretty deep psychological issues that seem to prevent her from being in a healthy relationship. She and her husband (my ex's father) were divorced by the time my ex was 4. My ex lived with her mother, and her father had visitation rights maybe once every other week. She is constantly getting into spats with her children, and often refuses to talk to them for long periods of time without making any real reconciliation efforts.



• My ex has a somewhat unstable relationship history. She's was never in one as long as ours lasted (I think her second longest was 1.5 years), and when she was a bit younger she often switched from men to women in relationships.



• 
  
  She often distances herself from her close friends, regardless of their geographical location. She also gets greatly upset if she thinks someone is mad at her, even when I would say that it probably wasn't a big deal and that you just have to let people be sometimes.
  
  



• 
  
  She can't settle on any kind of career. She been going back and forth for the last 3 years that I've known her, and it seems that she has some new ambition every few months.
  
  



• 
  
  The entire last year of our relationship was entirely hot or cold. She either loved me or hated me, and often took basic statements I would make to complete extremes, sometimes starting a fight that really had no real basis. She also constantly seemed to misremember small events during the course of our relationship.
  
  



• 
  
  She is obsessively orderly. Her room must be perfect, and all of her events must be planned. She's also a prolific journaler. She obsessively keeps them, but I've never seen her look back and read through anything.
  
  



• 
  
  She bottles the hell out of her emotions. When things started going wrong I would ask her to talk and she would either stonewall me or pretend that nothing was wrong. Eventually, she would explode in nonsensical ways about her feelings changing, but be perfectly fine the next day and thank me for listening to her. Anytime I would proceed to ask her what we both could do about her feelings, she would blow them off, saying that it had nothing to do with me, even when I believe it did.
  
  



• 
  
  She was incredibly clingy at the beginning of our relationship. We moved in together after 6 months. She often told me that I was perfect, and that if I died suddenly there would be no one else for her, that she would be done with relationships completely.
  
  



• 
  
  Towards the middle of our relationship she began to make big ultimatums ('if you don't do this, we're done' kind of ultimatums).
  
  



• 
  
  She was constantly depressed in the last year of our relationship (which I had attributed to other events that happened in her life at the time). She felt that she was boring and that she didn't have fun anymore. She wasn't making any efforts at finding new friends, and she was constantly hot and cold about those that she had. I encouraged her to see a psychologist about this problem, but she never took my advice seriously.
  
  

Ok, so, there are more things that I can think of, but these are all of the big ones that come to mind with a little distance from the relationship. I know that none of you can guarantee anything, but I had been going crazy towards the end of things, thinking that I was paranoid and generally not trusting my own instincts because I didn't have a clue what I was doing wrong. She brought out the worst of my anxieties, in short. Thing is, I treated her like gold. I thought she was depressed (and only depressed), so I did as much as I could (helped her around the house, cooked, was there if she needed to talk), but I never got anything back. She reduced my anxieties to nothing, and eventually I didn't feel like I could go to her about them. When we broke up, I blamed myself for not being forthcoming like I should have been, but the more I think about it the more that I actually believe that I was forced into this behavior in a strange way. I wanted to leave her for about the last four months, but I felt that I couldn't just abandon her when she was obviously going through some stuff. Then she left me, saying that she saw how much anxiety she was causing me, and that she didn't want to hurt me anymore. She immediately wanted to be best friends, but I've made my boundaries pretty clear and haven't spoken to her in about a month. I know that she still wants me in her life. She told me that she couldn't accept the idea of me disappearing and never speaking to her again. Obviously, she was a big part of my life and I look forward to being friends with her, but I have no idea if this is healthy or not for either of us.

Anyways, that's it. Does this make any sense? I just want someone to tell me that I'm not insane. Granted, I have more own anxiety issues that need to be addressed, but there's no way in my mind that they caused ALL of this.

Thanks for reading.

[valet]

Hey guys, this is my first post and I'm far from an expert in psychology, but here goes nothing.

I'm beginning to believe fairly whole-heartedly that my recent ex of 2 years (she broke up with me) has Borderline Personality Disorder. Of course, I didn't really pay attention to the signs during our relationship nor know what they are, but I've done some reading and want a second opinion. We are both 24, closing in on 25.

General Ideas:

• Her mother has some pretty deep psychological issues that seem to prevent her from being in a healthy relationship. She and her husband (my ex's father) were divorced by the time my ex was 4. My ex lived with her mother, and her father had visitation rights maybe once every other week. She is constantly getting into spats with her children, and often refuses to talk to them for long periods of time without making any real reconciliation efforts.



• My ex has a somewhat unstable relationship history. She's was never in one as long as ours lasted (I think her second longest was 1.5 years), and when she was a bit younger she often switched from men to women in relationships.



• 
  
  She often distances herself from her close friends, regardless of their geographical location. She also gets greatly upset if she thinks someone is mad at her, even when I would say that it probably wasn't a big deal and that you just have to let people be sometimes.
  
  



• 
  
  She can't settle on any kind of career. She been going back and forth for the last 3 years that I've known her, and it seems that she has some new ambition every few months.
  
  



• 
  
  The entire last year of our relationship was entirely hot or cold. She either loved me or hated me, and often took basic statements I would make to complete extremes, sometimes starting a fight that really had no real basis. She also constantly seemed to misremember small events during the course of our relationship.
  
  



• 
  
  She is obsessively orderly. Her room must be perfect, and all of her events must be planned. She's also a prolific journaler. She obsessively keeps them, but I've never seen her look back and read through anything.
  
  



• 
  
  She bottles the hell out of her emotions. When things started going wrong I would ask her to talk and she would either stonewall me or pretend that nothing was wrong. Eventually, she would explode in nonsensical ways about her feelings changing, but be perfectly fine the next day and thank me for listening to her. Anytime I would proceed to ask her what we both could do about her feelings, she would blow them off, saying that it had nothing to do with me, even when I believe it did.
  
  



• 
  
  She was incredibly clingy at the beginning of our relationship. We moved in together after 6 months. She often told me that I was perfect, and that if I died suddenly there would be no one else for her, that she would be done with relationships completely.
  
  



• 
  
  Towards the middle of our relationship she began to make big ultimatums ('if you don't do this, we're done' kind of ultimatums).
  
  



• 
  
  She was constantly depressed in the last year of our relationship (which I had attributed to other events that happened in her life at the time). She felt that she was boring and that she didn't have fun anymore. She wasn't making any efforts at finding new friends, and she was constantly hot and cold about those that she had. I encouraged her to see a psychologist about this problem, but she never took my advice seriously.
  
  

Ok, so, there are more things that I can think of, but these are all of the big ones that come to mind with a little distance from the relationship. I know that none of you can guarantee anything, but I had been going crazy towards the end of things, thinking that I was paranoid and generally not trusting my own instincts because I didn't have a clue what I was doing wrong. She brought out the worst of my anxieties, in short. Thing is, I treated her like gold. I thought she was depressed (and only depressed), so I did as much as I could (helped her around the house, cooked, was there if she needed to talk), but I never got anything back. She reduced my anxieties to nothing, and eventually I didn't feel like I could go to her about them. When we broke up, I blamed myself for not being forthcoming like I should have been, but the more I think about it the more that I actually believe that I was forced into this behavior in a strange way. I wanted to leave her for about the last four months, but I felt that I couldn't just abandon her when she was obviously going through some stuff. Then she left me, saying that she saw how much anxiety she was causing me, and that she didn't want to hurt me anymore. She immediately wanted to be best friends, but I've made my boundaries pretty clear and haven't spoken to her in about a month. I know that she still wants me in her life. She told me that she couldn't accept the idea of me disappearing and never speaking to her again. Obviously, she was a big part of my life and I look forward to being friends with her, but I have no idea if this is healthy or not for either of us.

Anyways, that's it. Does this make any sense? I just want someone to tell me that I'm not insane. Granted, I have more own anxiety issues that need to be addressed, but there's no way in my mind that they caused ALL of this.

Thanks for reading.

[Sunfl0wer]

(Ugh, I wrote you a long reply and my browser crashed!)( maybe I need to post in tech help as I think it happened from a new PM coming in)

Anyway, valet, welcome!

I can pretty much say that all of what you describe is  material!

You are making the right connections!

My ex does not have a diagnosis.  He probably would never get one.  Our MC said to me, "he has traits, like us all, we are on a continuum."  I believe that the MC was not well trained in PD and another one would have confirmed my suspicions.  My x does not fit neatly into a BPD box.  He is more a mild BPD/NPD type.  Others on this site have loved ones with more classical symptoms, while others vary in degrees of different symptoms.

My xSO has had a stable job and a long marriage.  Never self harmed.  His symptoms are not present in most areas of his life, just in very intimate relationships within the household.  It only affects his partner and the kids in his actions, or rather reactions.  My point is that here at this site is the only place that I have found that helps me make sense of this.  I'm sure if the MC acknowledged the element of PD in our relationship, then that would have been a support as well.  But only people who know and understand PD have been able to grasp my experiences and be helpful.  It is like a different reality that only those who have been there can speak to.  This is why we get confused and doubt ourself.

Anyways, that's it. Does this make any sense? I just want someone to tell me that I'm not insane. Granted, I have more own anxiety issues that need to be addressed, but there's no way in my mind that they caused ALL of this.

You are NOT insane! It is the FOG that we deal with, it confuses reality.

Keep posting, keep reading, clarity will come!

I'm glad that you found this place!

[Mutt]

Hi valet,  



I'm sorry to hear that.

We're not professionals and can't diagnose.

We can look at behaviors and BPD traits and set boundaries. Boundaries is to keep the good stuff in and bad stuff out.

I had been going crazy towards the end of things, thinking that I was paranoid and generally not trusting my own instincts because I didn't have a clue what I was doing wrong.

I thought I was going crazy too after 8 years.

I was starting to believe that there may be something really wrong with me because I can't seem to do anything right.

Welcome to bpdfamily.

It helps to talk.

Hang in there.


----Mutt

[valet]

Thanks Sunflower. It feels good to finally have some kind of validation for these ideas. All I had been doing before was reading accounts on this board and general information articles about BPD.

My ex truly is one of the kindest, most loving people I've ever met, and in a lot of ways it feels like she will be my 'one that got away'. I know that this isn't true, and that there is no one person for anyone, and I think I'm in the clear as far as the worst of my emotions are concerned. I guess I'm at the point of frustration in which I really want her to get some kind of help, because I deeply care about her as a person. Obviously she has to come to this conclusion on her own, but I would really hate to see her keep stumbling through relationships like she has. I want her to be happy! She deserves a full, wonderful life that is stable and sound, and it breaks my heart knowing that if my instincts are correct, that this won't be possible for her.

Does anyone have anything to say regarding this idea? I do truly want to be her friend when I am good and over her, and I'm not trying to play any mind games. The thing is, our lives are so intertwined that it may be difficult for me to disconnect from her in a healthy way.

I haven't really instituted any kind of official no contact rule (she appears to have enough strength to accept the boundaries that I've already laid out), but I know that next year we'll both be attending the same master's program, living in the same city, and sharing a very tight group of mutual friends that we've built up over the past few years. This idea doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, and I know that I don't have to completely remove her from my life, but I'm just kind of confused by the situation. The general wisdom regarding breakups seems to point towards cutting her out. It just doesn't seem necessary to me at this point.

Words of wisdom regarding how to manage this? What do you guys think the best way to proceed is?

[Sunfl0wer]

I haven't really instituted any kind of official no contact rule (she appears to have enough strength to accept the boundaries that I've already laid out), but I know that next year we'll both be attending the same master's program, living in the same city, and sharing a very tight group of mutual friends that we've built up over the past few years. This idea doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, and I know that I don't have to completely remove her from my life, but I'm just kind of confused by the situation. The general wisdom regarding breakups seems to point towards cutting her out. It just doesn't seem necessary to me at this point.

Words of wisdom regarding how to manage this? What do you guys think the best way to proceed is?

You may want to start a new post or two asking for tips on how to manage this and another on how to help her.

Many people may just pop in on this thread to say hello whereas the new topics may be of interest to more to reply.

[ta777]

I felt I needed to reply to this because I see many similarities in my undiagnosedBPDexgf as well. We were together 4 years, I'm 22 and she is 21. I too question if she truly has BPD but reading your post helps me to believe that she does.

• Her mother has some pretty deep psychological issues that seem to prevent her from being in a healthy relationship. She and her husband (my ex's father) were divorced by the time my ex was 4. My ex lived with her mother, and her father had visitation rights maybe once every other week. She is constantly getting into spats with her children, and often refuses to talk to them for long periods of time without making any real reconciliation efforts.

My ex's mom also had psychological issues, she was diagnosed as bipolar but I also think she might have had BPD on top of it. She was on meds but was still off in a way. Her mom would get angry at little things, she had a short temper just as my ex did. Her mom is now in her 50s and is alone, she had one marriage that ended and almost got married again but that also ended. My ex's father was a fling that ended up with her mom getting pregnant. Not only that, her father was still married. Her mom and dad had issues over child support and fought through it in court for some time.

From what I was able to gather my ex never really had a great relationship with either of her parents. She hardly ever sees her dad and when she does all she is trying to do is get money from him (she said it so herself while laughing about it ). Her mom never really attempts to speak to my ex, she gets home and locks herself in her room all day. My ex even told my mom that she felt she couldn't talk to her mom about her issues or things of that type. The mom would also apparently hit my ex and leave her bruised at times. These are all reasons a person could end up having BPD.

• My ex has a somewhat unstable relationship history. She's was never in one as long as ours lasted (I think her second longest was 1.5 years), and when she was a bit younger she often switched from men to women in relationships.

Same goes for my ex. Ours was also the longest at 4 years. Her previous boyfriend was physically abusive according to her but she had been with him for more than a year.

• 
  
  She often distances herself from her close friends, regardless of their geographical location. She also gets greatly upset if she thinks someone is mad at her, even when I would say that it probably wasn't a big deal and that you just have to let people be sometimes.
  
  

I also noticed this with my ex. Almost all of her close friends with the exception of one (her cousin) she would distance herself from at times. Her cousin who is just 18 is a major enabler of hers and might even possibly be a pwBPD as well (she has her own issues in her family, never met her dad, etc). I also found myself telling my ex that things weren't a big deal but they are in their own little world. My ex comepletely cut off and painted black her best friend because she tweeted something negative about her. I saw the tweet and it wasn't even directly towards my ex but she thought it was enough to completely get rid of her best friend for.

• 
  
  She can't settle on any kind of career. She been going back and forth for the last 3 years that I've known her, and it seems that she has some new ambition every few months.
  
  

Can't really relate here but since we are still in college she would keep changing her major and her outlook on what to do as a career. She never really settled on anything and is probably still trying to figure it out but this can be said for anyone really.

• 
  
  The entire last year of our relationship was entirely hot or cold. She either loved me or hated me, and often took basic statements I would make to complete extremes, sometimes starting a fight that really had no real basis.
  
  

This was my ex pretty much all the time outside of the honeymoon phase. It was like looking at a child who hated their parent for punishing them when I would look at her telling me she hated me. Same thing with the statements, she would blow things way out of proportion that sometimes I just kept my mouth shut to avoid starting a fight with her.

She also constantly seemed to misremember small events during the course of our relationship.

This really stuck out to me. Apparently this is a common thing with BPDs. I noticed this a lot with my ex. I even told her, "you seem to misremember things a lot". There were times when she was 100 percent positive she was right and I would tell her otherwise and she was still set on it. I would then show her the evidence to prove her otherwise and she would be left surprised, almost let down, that she didn't remember correctly. It was usually little things like you said so it didn't matter much but it still happened quite often in our relationship.

• 
  
  She is obsessively orderly. Her room must be perfect, and all of her events must be planned. She's also a prolific journaler. She obsessively keeps them, but I've never seen her look back and read through anything.
  
  

Not sure if this is similar but my ex always wanted me to have things planned out, like our days out or something like that. She would seem annoyed if I didn't have a set schedule or plan for a date. But again this can be said for nonBPDs as well.

• 
  
  She bottles the hell out of her emotions. When things started going wrong I would ask her to talk and she would either stonewall me or pretend that nothing was wrong. Eventually, she would explode in nonsensical ways about her feelings changing, but be perfectly fine the next day and thank me for listening to her. Anytime I would proceed to ask her what we both could do about her feelings, she would blow them off, saying that it had nothing to do with me, even when I believe it did.
  
  

My ex would cry and tell me she hated me but when I would be there trying to make her feel better and offer to take her out to eat she would almost instantly cheer up. It was weird and I thought maybe it just wasn't that big of a deal if she got over it so quickly. Then again I thought a lot of our issues were over little things she would start fights over. I think my ex also withheld some of her feelings for me because when she left me for another person she said I didn't give her enough attention or affection which she hadn't really communicated to me. Even then I don't believe that was true, I was seeing her like 5 days out of the week in between my work and school schedule when she lived 30 minutes away from me. It apparently wasn't enough for her but then again nothing ever is enough for people with BPD.

• 
  
  She was incredibly clingy at the beginning of our relationship. We moved in together after 6 months. She often told me that I was perfect, and that if I died suddenly there would be no one else for her, that she would be done with relationships completely.
  
  

Another common thing for BPD. Mine was incredibly clingy throughout the relationship, she even said it herself. I also heard the "you're perfect for me", "we're soul mates", etc etc. Mine had wanted to marry me for the longest time but I would tell her that we needed to wait considering we were young, still in school and didn't have careers. She even told my mom she wanted to marry me. Despite what they say, it's all just to make you stay. She told my mom that she wanted to marry me but in the end it was her who dumped me for another person. Crazy huh?

• 
  
  Towards the middle of our relationship she began to make big ultimatums ('if you don't do this, we're done' kind of ultimatums).
  
  

This right here is something I can totally relate to. I don't know how many times I heard this in the 4 years I was with her. Just like you it was "if you don't change I will leave you" or "you don't believe me but I will leave you". This was mostly related to her insecurities and her telling me that if I didn't stop looking at girls on the internet, or even in real life she would leave me.

• 
  
  She was constantly depressed in the last year of our relationship (which I had attributed to other events that happened in her life at the time). She felt that she was boring and that she didn't have fun anymore. She wasn't making any efforts at finding new friends, and she was constantly hot and cold about those that she had. I encouraged her to see a psychologist about this problem, but she never took my advice seriously.

She was probably always depressed. From what I've read people with BPD tend to suffer from depression a lot of the time, if not most of the time. She might have just communicated it to you before that but who knows. My ex would always tell me she was depressed. I would ask her why that was and most of the time she didn't even know why. I also told her that she should seek out of a therapist or psychologist but like your ex she never took it seriously and went.

Ok, so, there are more things that I can think of, but these are all of the big ones that come to mind with a little distance from the relationship. I know that none of you can guarantee anything, but I had been going crazy towards the end of things, thinking that I was paranoid and generally not trusting my own instincts because I didn't have a clue what I was doing wrong. She brought out the worst of my anxieties, in short. Thing is, I treated her like gold. I thought she was depressed (and only depressed), so I did as much as I could (helped her around the house, cooked, was there if she needed to talk), but I never got anything back. She reduced my anxieties to nothing, and eventually I didn't feel like I could go to her about them. When we broke up, I blamed myself for not being forthcoming like I should have been, but the more I think about it the more that I actually believe that I was forced into this behavior in a strange way. I wanted to leave her for about the last four months, but I felt that I couldn't just abandon her when she was obviously going through some stuff. Then she left me, saying that she saw how much anxiety she was causing me, and that she didn't want to hurt me anymore. She immediately wanted to be best friends, but I've made my boundaries pretty clear and haven't spoken to her in about a month. I know that she still wants me in her life. She told me that she couldn't accept the idea of me disappearing and never speaking to her again. Obviously, she was a big part of my life and I look forward to being friends with her, but I have no idea if this is healthy or not for either of us.

Anyways, that's it. Does this make any sense? I just want someone to tell me that I'm not insane. Granted, I have more own anxiety issues that need to be addressed, but there's no way in my mind that they caused ALL of this.

Thanks for reading.

I too was left blaming myself, suffering from anxiety and depression after the breakup but my breakup was different from yours. At the end of the relationship I was incredibly stressed with things in my life and she had even added to that stress. I still blame myself till this day after being out for 3 months but you need to realize that things really aren't your fault when you're in a relationship with a pwBPD. It is all part of the disorder, it is pretty much impossible for them to maintain normal, healthy relationships.

I recommend you read the forums here as well as reading the lessons on the right hand side. Those lessons should help you out greatly as they did me. You might also notice that a lot of our stories are strangely similar around here.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I felt like I was never enough for her, that my love, attention and affection weren't good enough and that maybe I just wasn't good at giving those things to her. Like maybe I was the problem and that is why I still sort of blame myself but it gets better with time.

[valet]

Mind you (and sorry for the massive information dump I'm taking right now), the entire second half of our relationship would have been challenging for any couple. She was teaching in a different country, and we were long distance for about 6 months.  My father died unexpectedly while she was away, and she immediately jumped on a plane when I told her. So, no major problems until I went to visit her about 16 months into the relationship. Things were actually pretty perfect in a lot of ways.

At that point we had already lived together for about 5 months, so it wasn't really a big deal to me. It was natural at first, but then she started snapping at me in weird ways (not taking my anxieties seriously, calling me out about lots of things that seemed largely not argument material, claiming that she felt that I was stripping her independence from her by visiting, etc.). This is when I made my most extreme efforts to get her to talk to me, but all she did was sit and stare at her computer when I asked her what was bothering her. Eventually, as I stated previously, she would have some kind of tearful meltdown and I would have to console her, even though I didn't quite understand what the problems were between us. I'm starting to think that they were just her problems, since I gave her space whenever she asked for or appeared to need it. Then things would just go back to normal for a few weeks until her next, uh, episode?

Anyways, she came home and we lived together last summer, and then together moved back to the country that she had been the year before to teach together (which seemed pretty amazing at the time). This is when things really started to go down the tubes. She was constantly sad, confused, or feeling 'empty'. I felt that I couldn't do anything right, even though I was doing literally everything a good partner would do. She wasn't doing a thing for me, and was openly expecting me to read her mind when she needed to talk about something, while chastising me if I didn't directly ask. When we left the country things only got worse, until they completely fell apart about 2 months ago. She and I are both in the same foreign country, by the way, and will be here until late August...

She seemed to be completely unappreciative of everything that I had done for her, i.e. flying across the ocean TWICE  to accommodate her whimsical career attitudes, constantly consoling her and helping her through her fights with her mother, constantly consoling her about people that she had lost in the last year. I think, in hindsight, that I could have been far more assertive with things. To be honest, however, my career ambitions don't tether me to single location, so I was fine with moving around until life calmed down a little bit, or until I decided that I was ready to apply to a more extensive graduate program. To her, this was because I was too dependent and unwilling to make big decisions on my own, but the reality of the situation is that my only plans before going to school again are trying to meet as many people and travel to as many places as I can. I was vocal about this, but she never seemed to believe me.

Ahhhhh!

[JPH]

It definitely seems like a very confusing, stressful relationship. I'm sorry for your experience. Welcome. There are a lot of understanding, caring folks here. If you're seeking validation and knowledge you've come to the right place.

[Sunfl0wer]

My ex truly is one of the kindest, most loving people I've ever met, and in a lot of ways it feels like she will be my 'one that got away'. I know that this isn't true, and that there is no one person for anyone, and I think I'm in the clear as far as the worst of my emotions are concerned. I guess I'm at the point of frustration in which I really want her to get some kind of help, because I deeply care about her as a person.

My ex also appeared to be the kindest, most loving person.  This still bothers me!

However, I have since learned that this is a mask.  It was only the way that he behaved while he had me painted all white.  I was painted all white that first year because he needed me to be his source of narcissistic supply as he recovered from the injuries from his recent divorce. 

I could have never guessed that the man I spent that first year with would be the same man I have known this past year. I sadly came to learn that his kindness and love was not about Us at all. It was not even about our relationship.  Our relationship was instead a tool for him.  It served its purpose for him, and now he is no longer holding up that mask to me.  I have been discarded to the very hidden bottom of the tool box, hidden under a pile of loose nuts and bolts.  (In his mind)

It still baffles me that a person can be one type of person for a whole year, then different.  Truly still baffling to me!

[valet]

My ex asked me if i was going to a party that she might go to. I said that i wasn't sure, then she replied with a really passive aggressive message that she wouldn't come. I wouldn't indulge on this. I only told the truth and I have no reason to get sucked into an argument. Is this the right move?

[valet]

I'm afraid that i will be painted black, because i don't really deserve it. The thought makes me sad.

[Mutt]

My ex asked me if i was going to a party that she might go to. I said that i wasn't sure, then she replied with a really passive aggressive message that she wouldn't come. I wouldn't indulge on this. I only told the truth and I have no reason to get sucked into an argument. Is this the right move?

I think you have the right idea, don't indulge.

[raisins3142]

I have let go of having to know if my ex really has BPD or not.  It is a human conception and category of sorts, but the commonalities make it a useful one.  As others have said, it is a continuum and it is useful for me to simply know the BPD traits and which ones she had and how they affected me and made a relationship impossible.  Whether or not enough boxes are ticked to enough of a degree is less important to me.

As far as your ex, there is no way to know if she can have happy relationships or not.  I hope she can.  I'd hope that for anyone.  And no one can know if she really has BPD or not.  Heck, even a psychologist can diagnose in error.  Not to say that expertise is not useful, but this is not something where there is a blood test for it.  And even if they have "it", I assume a competent psychologist would go about addressing issues and take their severity and impact into account.

From what you said, I think she has a better chance than many that are described by others on here, the ones that are quite apparently further along the BPD spectrum.

For instance, compared to the drug addicted, self-mutilators that cheat on every partner they have, even in the first month... .your ex seemingly has a better prognosis just by my "horse sense" estimation.  I'm not trying to play "my ex is more disordered than yours"... .I think it is a hopeful message.  I think your ex is healthier than mine.  Which is sad to say for me, but at least from what I've read it is my opinion.

I had another gf that I also believe what BPD or had BPD like traits.  She was raised so strictly and was so preoccupied with what others thought and her own behavior (she was prone to guilt if she did anything wrong) that she never drank and dating/sex were a big deal (big deal in that she did not sleep around and waited a decent length of time to be sexual).  And she never really raged or got upset except behind closed doors with me.  I think she had a better shot than my recent ex that was kind of a hedonist and lacked a moral compass and lacked basic affection towards children and animals (only cared for her narcissistic supply objects, and almost nothing would surprise me from her as I think she could rationalize anything she would do).

[valet]

That's an interesting take, raisins. I think that the most useful attitude moving forward will be to completely separate her behavior from anything I said or did. I am not going to say that I didn't enable her to treat me in the the ways that she did, but what's done is done. At this point in time my only real way out is to concentrate on myself.

I've kind of began to adopt the mindset, after considering your post, that there might not be a 'healthier' version of a person with BPD. The inner mechanisms that dictate their actions tend to operate on the same general principles. It's a shame that some are more physically self-destructive than others, for obvious reasons, I just don't know if we should be so quick to say that anyone is healthier than anyone else when a mental illness is involved.

As a general aside: To be honest, I'm not too sure that she wasn't engaging others outside of our relationship. I've accepted that this is something I will never know, unless she tells me directly. For a while my cheater sense was tingling, but I subverted it and didn't push to hard to address my feelings because they seemed non-productive. Not healthy of course, but I've learned from my experience. Whenever I did bring it up with her she lost patience quickly, and I began to trust her less with ALL of my emotions. In either scenario, I was still manipulated by her, no matter if her intentions were good or bad. Obviously, she wasn't making a conscious effort to turn me into a shell of myself. It just happened in the confusion of her bi-monthly meltdowns/family feuds/cycles of depression/etc.

It's weird, to be honest. Even 2 months out I'm at the point where sometimes I think that I exhibited BPD behaviors, and that I was the problem. My head is definitely clearing though, I'm beginning to have the strength to disengage myself from the situation. I didn't respond to her second message last night, and I'm not going to. I don't know what her motives are (she probably doesn't have any conscious ones), but if I am to try talking to her I know that she'll misconstrue anything that I say and end up holding it against me. She needs to cool it, and so do I. I'm just getting to that realization a lot earlier than she is, possibly.

[raisins3142]

That's an interesting take, raisins. I think that the most useful attitude moving forward will be to completely separate her behavior from anything I said or did. I am not going to say that I didn't enable her to treat me in the the ways that she did, but what's done is done. At this point in time my only real way out is to concentrate on myself.

I've kind of began to adopt the mindset, after considering your post, that there might not be a 'healthier' version of a person with BPD. The inner mechanisms that dictate their actions tend to operate on the same general principles. It's a shame that some are more physically self-destructive than others, for obvious reasons, I just don't know if we should be so quick to say that anyone is healthier than anyone else when a mental illness is involved.

As a general aside: To be honest, I'm not too sure that she wasn't engaging others outside of our relationship. I've accepted that this is something I will never know, unless she tells me directly. For a while my cheater sense was tingling, but I subverted it and didn't push to hard to address my feelings because they seemed non-productive. Not healthy of course, but I've learned from my experience. Whenever I did bring it up with her she lost patience quickly, and I began to trust her less with ALL of my emotions. In either scenario, I was still manipulated by her, no matter if her intentions were good or bad. Obviously, she wasn't making a conscious effort to turn me into a shell of myself. It just happened in the confusion of her bi-monthly meltdowns/family feuds/cycles of depression/etc.

It's weird, to be honest. Even 2 months out I'm at the point where sometimes I think that I exhibited BPD behaviors, and that I was the problem. My head is definitely clearing though, I'm beginning to have the strength to disengage myself from the situation. I didn't respond to her second message last night, and I'm not going to. I don't know what her motives are (she probably doesn't have any conscious ones), but if I am to try talking to her I know that she'll misconstrue anything that I say and end up holding it against me. She needs to cool it, and so do I. I'm just getting to that realization a lot earlier than she is, possibly.

BPD is part of who they are.  They have a disordered personality.

I felt the same occasionally with myself and BPD symptoms.  It reminds me of hearing that many first year psychology students diagnose themselves with things they don't have simply because they are thinking about that stuff a lot plus all of us have some tinge of many traits that can be an illness.  For instance, everyone has mild mood swings, but few people are bipolar in comparison.

My cheater sense was tingling also and I agree we can't know and thinking of it after the fact is just hurtful and not productive.

Mine just seemed to lack a social sense of what to do to make people at ease and to trust her and she gave off an overly private vibe that made her seem sneaky.  Also, she began devaluing me and slow down on communication and all forms of affection/connection dropped off.  Now, in a non-disordered person those are all common signs of infidelity.  But they are also seemingly common among BPDs.  So, we will never know.  Part of me became obsessed with catching her when I thought she was.  It was a horrible way to live.

[valet]

BPD is part of who they are.  They have a disordered personality.

I felt the same occasionally with myself and BPD symptoms.  It reminds me of hearing that many first year psychology students diagnose themselves with things they don't have simply because they are thinking about that stuff a lot plus all of us have some tinge of many traits that can be an illness.  For instance, everyone has mild mood swings, but few people are bipolar in comparison.

My cheater sense was tingling also and I agree we can't know and thinking of it after the fact is just hurtful and not productive.

Mine just seemed to lack a social sense of what to do to make people at ease and to trust her and she gave off an overly private vibe that made her seem sneaky.  Also, she began devaluing me and slow down on communication and all forms of affection/connection dropped off.  Now, in a non-disordered person those are all common signs of infidelity.  But they are also seemingly common among BPDs.  So, we will never know.  Part of me became obsessed with catching her when I thought she was.  It was a horrible way to live.

Yeah, the reality is that it doesn't matter with a person who can't regulate their own emotions in a productive way.

Right now, I'm honestly starting to believe that I have been replaced... .by a friend of mine! I kind of want to laugh. I wish that I could be angry about the situation, but now that I know what I think I know about BPD behavior (granted, my ex is undiagnosed, but there were/are many red flags) it just won't set me off. As of today, I'm going strictly NC with her. I have no desire to see her again, as she's really only capable of hurting me at this point. She erased me, and now she's going to be erased. It's as simple as that.

I can't really speak for the future though. There are so many mutual friends and family ties that it will be incredibly hard to avoid her, and as confusing and mixed up as this sounds, when I am fully healed I wouldn't shy from being her friend. Just not now, and not any time soon.