Why do run when the hard times have passed?

[ShadowIntheNight]

 It seems like in many instances I've noticed that our ex's seem to jump ship after some major event takes place,during our relationships. Some have just moved in with one another, some have had a child, and in my case the end of a protracted custody battle that even tho she didn't lose, she seemed to get put in her place by the judge. It really was more of a win for her exH. We went thru this battle for 2.5 years. I've come to realize that last May while I was reviewing the new court order for her that hadn't been finalized and pointing out things her atty needed to be aware of, she was searching for my replacement.

Wonder why both people in the relationship go through the same situations and one comes out tired, but grateful that the matter is laid to rest and ready to get on with peace and quiet in our lives and our partners or spouses want us gone. It makes no sense and it frustrates me that some jackass who didn't go thru one second of what she and I went thru are getting the spoils of that now.

I would think that a difficult situation would bond a couple and make them stronger. Indeed I know of many instances where that does happen.  I just find it odd that one of the characteristics of a BPD relationship is that events that should bring most people together drive them away. It makes me think that she didn't want to go to another level in the relationship after 9.5 yrs.

Thoughts?

[Reecer1588]

Wonder why both people in the relationship go through the same situations and one comes out tired, but grateful that the matter is laid to rest and ready to get on with peace and quiet in our lives and our partners or spouses want us gone. It makes no sense and it frustrates me that some jackass who didn't go thru one second of what she and I went thru are getting the spoils of that now.

The spoils? What spoils? Sex? I mean, yeah. They get sex with a person who literally can feel nothing during the most intimate act a human being can have with another. This is the only thing that helps me get past the fact that my ex will have sex with other people. That and the fact I'm going to have some, too.

To answer your question: I believe that it has to do with abandonment/engulfment. Indeed you are right, I suppose that in a normal relationship, a common trial would bring someone closer to you. But remember, you do that with the BPD, and they'll feel engulfed.

That's what I think the dynamic at play is.


~reece

[ShadowIntheNight]

Wonder why both people in the relationship go through the same situations and one comes out tired, but grateful that the matter is laid to rest and ready to get on with peace and quiet in our lives and our partners or spouses want us gone. It makes no sense and it frustrates me that some jackass who didn't go thru one second of what she and I went thru are getting the spoils of that now.

The spoils? What spoils? Sex? I mean, yeah. They get sex with a person who literally can feel nothing during the most intimate act a human being can have with another. This is the only thing that helps me get past the fact that my ex will have sex with other people. That and the fact I'm going to have some, too.

To answer your question: I believe that it has to do with abandonment/engulfment. Indeed you are right, I suppose that in a normal relationship, a common trial would bring someone closer to you. But remember, you do that with the BPD, and they'll feel engulfed.

That's what I think the dynamic at play is.


~reece

Not all spoils are measured in having sex. I was referring to getting our life back to normal where we didn't have to discuss a court case everyday and wonder if it was going to be postponed yet again. Or traveling and finally getting to enjoy that place and time together without not being able to schedule anything beyond a 3 day trip because evey 90 days the case was held up again. Or spending money on buying the land we wanted to build a small farm on instead of on legal fees. Or better yet, just enjoying a quiet evening without my uBPDexgf stressed out about legal fees and court dates. When she wasn't stressed, my ex was a gem. The last 2.5 years had been hard on us both. Now that major stress is gone and so is she. Some jackass who didn't have to go thru one minute of that ordeal is now getting the benefits of my ex not being majorly stressed. It totally sucks.

[Maternus]

Thoughts?

My uBPDex left me some weeks after we moved in together and some months after she finally found a job - and it was some kind of dream job for her. Everything we dreamed of for more than two years came true, we found this wonderful house in a part of the town, where she always wanted to live. Everything was perfect and... .one second later it was over.

I think, it was her addiction for drama and chaos. Borderliners like to chase their dreams, but they can't live them. They like to chase you, but when they have you, they get bored. They like to chase the perfect live, but when they have it, they get bored. Like a three years old child, that wants this one toy. It's interesting, as long as they are begging for it, but as soon as they get it, they want something new.  

[Reecer1588]

Wonder why both people in the relationship go through the same situations and one comes out tired, but grateful that the matter is laid to rest and ready to get on with peace and quiet in our lives and our partners or spouses want us gone. It makes no sense and it frustrates me that some jackass who didn't go thru one second of what she and I went thru are getting the spoils of that now.

The spoils? What spoils? Sex? I mean, yeah. They get sex with a person who literally can feel nothing during the most intimate act a human being can have with another. This is the only thing that helps me get past the fact that my ex will have sex with other people. That and the fact I'm going to have some, too.

To answer your question: I believe that it has to do with abandonment/engulfment. Indeed you are right, I suppose that in a normal relationship, a common trial would bring someone closer to you. But remember, you do that with the BPD, and they'll feel engulfed.

That's what I think the dynamic at play is.


~reece

Not all spoils are measured in having sex. I was referring to getting our life back to normal where we didn't have to discuss a court case everyday and wonder if it was going to be postponed yet again. Or traveling and finally getting to enjoy that place and time together without not being able to schedule anything beyond a 3 day trip because evey 90 days the case was held up again. Or spending money on buying the land we wanted to build a small farm on instead of on legal fees. Or better yet, just enjoying a quiet evening without my uBPDexgf stressed out about legal fees and court dates. When she wasn't stressed, my ex was a gem. The last 2.5 years had been hard on us both. Now that major stress is gone and so is she. Some jackass who didn't have to go thru one minute of that ordeal is now getting the benefits of my ex not being majorly stressed. It totally sucks.

Because you're going through this pain, and you're a fellow member here. I care about you man.

I'm only 19, and I can not relate to your experience like other members. All I know is I hurt like you.

The truth is, whoever she is with, will eventually befall the same fate as you. Take solace in this. It's only a matter of when, not if. And who knows, maybe this guy you once thought a freeloader to be despised, will call you up, balling, asking how this ever happened to him, asking if it happened to you.

[ShadowIntheNight]

Thoughts?

My uBPDex left me some weeks after we moved in together and some months after she finally found a job - and it was some kind of dream job for her. Everything we dreamed of for more than two years came true, we found this wonderful house in a part of the town, where she always wanted to live. Everything was perfect and... .one second later it was over.

I think, it was her addiction for drama and chaos. Borderliners like to chase their dreams, but they can't live them. They like to chase you, but when they have you, they get bored. They like to chase the perfect live, but when they have it, they get bored. Like a three years old child, that wants this one toy. It's interesting, as long as they are begging for it, but as soon as they get it, they want something new.  

I kind of wonder this too. It seems like over the 9.5 years we were together there was always something she was having to dig out of. Granted, I had 3 major deaths in my immediate family. One wasn't a surprise, the other two were. Then her father got sick, some of her family members had babies, just life kind of things. But she held that down well. There were only two big times where she "went crazy." This last time and another time 4 yrs ago. In both instances I believe her mother somehow triggered her behavior.

But beyond the court case, it seemed like there were always (or perceptionally so on my part) crises that she caused herself. A lot of them revolved around her inability to maintain solid financial health even tho she made pretty good money, and that was before she was paying the legal fees. I'd help her out both financially and with advice. But honestly, I think she was kind of ashamed that she couldn't be fiscally responsible.

[apollotech]

My thoughts on this issue is that it's a life dysregulation, much like when they emotionally dysregulate. It's not that they cannot handle drama; they cannot handle the absence of drama. My BPDexgf told me repeatedly that when she was alone that was not good because she made bad decisions during those times; she was correct. I think it's the same thing as what my BPDexgf was referring to, but on a much larger scale: when huge drama ends, huge bad decisions are made. The huge drama tie is cut; as a result, huge chaos ensues in their life. There is no peace in the life of a pwBPD, whether the Non sees that or not; they simply can't have it. They trade out drama like they trade out romantic partners; they move from one drama to the next.

[JRT]

Mine was like yours Apollo; she was simply now in her element unless there was drama and chaos. Although I feel that she was triggered by moving in with me, her son going off to live with his step dad and my going out of town (abandonment) the bigger issue is that she had achieved all that she wanted and that life was free of chaos and drama (relatively) especially with her son being out of the picture.

I'll never forget her even on vacations scanning her email accounts for some kind of 'issue' that she needed to tend to to the extent that not having it to deal with gave her anxiety. I recall her having to deal with some sort of controversy with her son while we were in Europe after I proposed. It was a 30 minute conversation while I waited IN EUROPE! Her phone bill was astronomical. 

I imagine that now, among other things, she is thriving on the chaos of her smear campaign against me. I think that they get the ball rolling and are committed to the mindset even though the trigger is long gone. 

[LimboFL]

Shadow, the foundation of Reecers comment regarding the benefits that the replacement gets to enjoy after your sweat and toil, are correct, albeit singularly focused. The young man has been beaten up a bit, in a couple of other post, by some of us for his focus on "sex". He is a smart young man and his input is appreciated.

The point is that we have to fight the impulse to believe that the next guy isn't going to be dealt the same cards. I sacrificed a great deal too (you, however, invested even more and for a much longer period - 9.5 to my 4) and helped her out of very difficult circumstances. I too was angry that some ass just waltzed in. Ultimately though, they too will pay the tax, as well have. It might be a different tax but there will be taxes.

Now that my FOG is lifting, I recall my exBPDgf saying that she didn't understand why she was so hard on me, in particular. That it must be the fact that she is aging that she is suddenly being so hard on her partner, that she was never this angry or hurtful before. However, throughout our relationship she recounted story after story of all of the same behaviors that I experienced, all of them. She wasn't blaming me but rather trying to convince me that she wasn't defective. She would recount huge fight after huge fight with her exes. The presence of the cops, trouble with her temper and so on. There were no recounts of her always having one foot out the door or inappropriate communication with orbiters, but where there is smoke... .

The hardest part of letting go is the intense anguish that comes from the fear that the next will have it easy, that suddenly they will have found their greatest love of all, which would only serve to point us out as being the failures in the relationship. We are not absolved of some guilt, but... .

I think that it is also important not to let yourself believe that you were being used. In your case, to follow the chaos theory (which I believe) I think that, once the mind warp of the custody battle went away, your ex likely suddenly panicked because there was nothing left for you both to focus on and that she panicked that with that case closed you would turn to her with the expectation that it was now time for the relationship to be the primary focus and that she would now be your sole focus, that your level of expectation from her would rise through the roof, because you had so selflessly given of yourself. I don't believe that she thought about it in these detailed terms but I believe that this could be what she felt.

The replacement, on the other hand, is someone who has little expectation of her. By leaving you, she rids herself of the weight of having to take things to the next level with you, when she isn't able to give at that level. I have no illusions that, in part this is pure selfishness. The choice she was left with after you saved her was, "do I opt for the hard work needed to help my relationship with Shadow evolve to the next level OR do I opt for the cheap thrill of seducing another man, who doesn't know me and doesn't have any real life expectations?"

The bottom line is that our replacements will suffer, as we have. How much they suffer will depend entirely on how much of the behavior they can take. It is probably the most punishing part, is the worry that the replacement will suddenly only get the person that we fell in love with and not the person who caused us so much pain.

At least in my case, my replacement was lined up several weeks before the final demise. How on earth can either party know who the other person is? None of the wart, on either side, have been exposed. What happens when those warts are exposed? In my estimation, very few of these rapid launch rebounds work.

Ultimately though, for as hard as I know it is, you should focus on how much you helped a family. How through your dedicated and hard work, you presented the case that the ex husband was the most suitable caretaker which in turn has helped the innocent children. Another way to look it is that despite your dedicated assistance in trying to help your ex with her custody battle, that the evidence was so overwhelmingly against your ex that a judge ruled against her (if I am reading your account properly). Judges don't vote against the Mother unless there is overwhelming evidence that there is a reason to. Any economic advantage that the Father may have, does not factor into the judges decision, because all that is done is that the Father is asked to help pay. If the judge dressed her down, then there was a reason for the judge to do this.

Trust me, I am not trying to convince you not to hurt deeply for the loss and betrayal. I do. Instead what I am trying to do, which is something I am doing for myself, is lay out all of the evidence that they aren't going to somehow be cured. They won't. Mine showed signs almost immediately and yours will likely too.

Finally, as I keep trying to do, you need to focus on the fact that you no longer have to devote so much energy and time, time that we took from ourselves and lovingly gave to them, to helping anyone but you.  This is another highly complicated endeavor. For one thing, we got in these relationships because we prefer to help others than ourselves. Next, at least is the case for me, I am a very private person (even though I am in sales) and the antithesis of a network type. Suddenly, after spending 4 years having a distraction to keep me occupied, I am left with very little to do with all of this extra time. I got so used to driving her to and from work, taking care of her dogs, cleaning the apartment, going grocery shopping, all of which I was happy to do, now I live alone, have no pets etc etc. Figuring out what to do with myself is very hard but we have to find ways to occupy our time and do things that will help us.

I am sorry you are hurting like this, I have and will have my own days but the overwhelming belief that I have is that I couldn’t continue to sustain things as they were. It will likely be a while before I realize the impact that so much devotion to another person had on me, physically, emotionally and mentally. I have heard others experience that sudden burst of freedom, where everything begins to taste and smell better, where you are suddenly appreciating things that you couldn’t before because your mind was focused entirely on someone else, who was in a constant state of need. We will both experience that day.

Stay strong Shadow. I remember you story and how there was little friction and how she suddenly just left. Much more difficult to digest than my situation where my ex was waif/queen, not sure in what order. So there were plenty of difficulties along the entire 4 years.

Keep you chin up and moving forward. It’s all we can do!  

[WhoMe51]

My dBPDexgf wanted to get married.  She talked about it all the time.  I went and bought an expensive ring and proposed to her.  She just stared at me as if she were in disbelief that I had asked.  I had to convince her to saying yes, because I thought she was just afraid.  A week later she told me that it wasn't a good idea for us to get married.  She gave me the ring back.  I don't think that she thought I would ask her and when I did, it didn't fill that void like she thought it would.  I felt crushed because I gave it to her so that we could have the life we had hoped for.  It's all about getting too close.  It's the attachment fear.  It's really sad.  

[LimboFL]

JRT, you raise an excellent point. Both my ex wife (20 years) and my exBPD (4 years) had serious anxiety. A debilitating affliction that I couldn't begin to imagine having. My ex wife dealt with by not being able to stand still. If she was still for any length of time, her anxiety would take over. In the case of my exBPD, because one has to add all of the other afflictions, it was anger, drama or any other outward expression that likely allowed her to let go of the anxiety. Anxiety festers whenever one is left with only their thoughts. Very heartbreaking. I watched my exBPDgf cope every day with this. Her hands were almost always moist and she would always play with her hands. It was crushing for me to see.

Whenever I was discussing anything, I couldn't do it standing. I had to be seated. If I straddled her ( clothed, not sexually but rather lovingly with the intention of just giving her a kiss or something ) in bed she would recoil and ask me to lie to her side.

Anxiety played a huge part in our complications. Sad.   

[ShadowIntheNight]

Limbo, thanks for your thoughtful response. My ex didn't lose the case, per she, she maintained primary custodial parent. But her child support was cut from $500+ a month to $250 a month and her ex got an extra evening of visitation with the kids. In essence, he won the most major things he wanted, but she maintained primary parent. The whole thing was stunning to me, and clearly to her too. But you are right, something caused the judge to rule that way. His decision came about 3 weeks after the hearing, which isn't unreasonable. But it makes me wonder if he talked to the kids therapist and the counselor who both parents had to see prior to the hearing in making his decision. It is irrelevant, he decided what he decided and something influenced him to do it. My ex is the first person I have known who had a custody battle, had had no child support increase from the first order of the original divorce 7 years earlier and had the child support cut after the final hearing.

The kids are not with their father full time. They have split custody. And He's a bigger jack ass than her. She did not lose the battle per she, as he would have become the primary parent, so in that regard she didn't lose. as I said though, what came down from it was a smack down in her case.

I have a lot of time on my hands too. fortunately with winter finally being over I can finally get back outside and do my gardening and other activities. I have an older pet, so I have to take care of him, but one day soon I hope to start traveling again.

Having said all that, as I know you know, the deepness of the wound is the hardest to take. It's impossible to build a comfortable existence with a stranger overnight. I'm no longer convinced I even have within me the desire nor capacity to do so. And knowing that when push came to shove she couldn't find even one compelling benefit of staying with us and instead preferred a complete stranger is very difficult to take. I came to realize last May while I was going over the new court order her exH's atty had drafted making sure she wasn't getting screwed she was going on dates looking for my replacement. Whomever he is, I'm sure by now,he has learned something about her temper and getting even.

BTW, mine talked all the time. I didn't learn this till recently as I had no idea about BPD while we were together. Apparently incessant talking is a sign of a chaotic mind and was her way of processing that chaos she was feeling. I always just listened, I figured she didn't want an answer from me so I just let her talk. Even at 2 in the morning. C'est la vie.

[LimboFL]

Shadow, my apologies for the misread. Either way, as you clarified, she did not walk out of it unscathed. Hardest for the children. Fortunately, my ex wife, for the way she chose the cowardly route out, we have never fought about who gets my son and when.

I believe that the way we have to look at things is that, if somehow we could have these people we so fell in love with without the disorder, life would be perfect. However, we can't and so we are the ones who were saved from a lifetime of heartaches, a lifetime of pain, stress, anguish and sorrow.

Your story was so much harder than mine. Mine was selfish but to a degree. She did try to give of herself and showed great kindness but she simply couldn't sustain it long enough to be the norm. I still want love and still want to care for and be cared for but I clearly have lots to accomplish before I can even search for that. While I would never place the blame entirely at her feet, I did devote so much time to her, whether it was in the form of doing things for her or simply the taxation to my emotions. Now I have to right the ship and focus on the things that ultimately matter most, job, my son and my own mental well being. Very hard after devoting so much to someone else.

My sincere hope, shadow, is that you find a new love who will prove your instincts to simply protect yourself, wrong. We don't need anyone but it certainly makes like more enriching, to have someone who you can tell about your day, or share a hug and a kiss with. I hope and believe that we will both find it, it's just a matter of time. Something pulled me out of this relationship just when it was needed, so I believe that that same power will also present a new partner, when the time is right. I was so not the type to believe in fate etc. but many things have happened in my life since the b/u that have been simply too powerful for me to ignore. I will never pull out tarot cards or read the stars but I can't help but think that, as the saying always seems to go, things happen for a reason.

Good luck out there. I had to say goodbye to two pups that I love dearly and took care of. One is dying and I can't be there. This has only added to the pain.

One day things will be brighter for us both.

[4Years5Months]

My exBPDgf broke up with me seven times.  Three times she has rebounded with another guy, and a fourth time (first breakup with me) she was interested in another, but he didn't reciprocate, nor did he even know.  This last breakup came after we took a vacation (our first) to New York City, and had an amazing time.  Then we came back, and she became depressed and distant.  She also got sick, which she blamed on NYC germs (likely).  One night, she was bummed, and texted me "Would you ever move with me to NYC?"  As I have a 10 year old daughter, I told her I was open to the idea, but it wasn't going to be something automatic.  She began to detach from me after that.  Keep in mind she has no real plan to move, she just wants to do it.  And it was enough for her to break up with me because, in her mind, we now had different goals in life.

It had been roughly a month since the breakup, with no contact, when I heard she was dating a co-worker.  A co-worker she had previously devalued quite viciously to me on a regular basis.  She would practically narrate her life to me via text and in person, and almost every day she would have a story about "Forrest Gump" as she called him, because he was such an idiot.  But then, there they were, cheek to cheek, enjoying a "staycation" downtown, going to roughly 10 different restaurants over two days.  I've had a mutual friend keep tabs on her Facebook, and it seems they are going places SHE wants to go (the restaurants, seeing a stand up comedian I know she likes).  He was also married the last time she and I talked about him, so he at the very least is recently separated from his wife, his high school sweetheart.  Their exchanges on Facebook mirror him - juvenile comments, sexual innuendos, it's shocking - she is sarcastic and funny, but rarely crude like she is with him.  She is dumbing herself down for him.  It's like being with someone like me was too much.

The odds say it won't last, but damn, it hurts to see her seemingly having the time of her life with this guy.  After all, she was in a deep funk our last month or so together.  I would have done anything to see the girl I'm now seeing now, albeit with another guy.  I know that she will eventually devalue him - he's a Conservative Christian, two things she is adamantly against, and I doubt she has forgotten how much of an idiot he is - but I want it to get to that point now. 

For me, she didn't run when bad times passed, she ran after an incredibly good time.  I told her at the end that it seemed like she was incapable of having things be good for too long - like our vacation was too positive for her and she had to create chaos in order to feel "normal."  I can't help but think that eventually, she will feel engulfed by the good times with this new guy.  Whether or not I ever learn that is the question.  All I want at this point is for her to tell me she misses me.  She can go date 40 guys over 40 months after that, I want her to acknowledge that moving on isn't as easy as she's making it out to be.

[Sunfl0wer]

It seems like in many instances I've noticed that our ex's seem to jump ship after some major event takes place,during our relationships. Some have just moved in with one another, some have had a child, and in my case the end of a protracted custody battle that even tho she didn't lose, she seemed to get put in her place by the judge. It really was more of a win for her exH. We went thru this battle for 2.5 years. I've come to realize that last May while I was reviewing the new court order for her that hadn't been finalized and pointing out things her atty needed to be aware of, she was searching for my replacement.

Wonder why both people in the relationship go through the same situations and one comes out tired, but grateful that the matter is laid to rest and ready to get on with peace and quiet in our lives and our partners or spouses want us gone. It makes no sense and it frustrates me that some jackass who didn't go thru one second of what she and I went thru are getting the spoils of that now.

I would think that a difficult situation would bond a couple and make them stronger. Indeed I know of many instances where that does happen.  I just find it odd that one of the characteristics of a BPD relationship is that events that should bring most people together drive them away. It makes me think that she didn't want to go to another level in the relationship after 9.5 yrs.

Thoughts?

I'm really glad that you bring this up.  This is what lies under the surface pissing me off.  Thank you for bringing it to light so I can face it!

I am pissed off that I stood by him during the worse 5 years of his life. My uN/BPDexbf had just gotten his divorce finalized when I met him.  His uBPDexw was beginning to harass him, escalated, and it continued for all those years.  It only got more and more nasty as his ex used their D9 to plot against us.  She made false accusations against us time and again, and our household, and my S. We lived in fear of every move we made and had to call our lawyer just to get understanding on very simple matters like how to take a vacation, how long can we leave D11(same D, just different age) home before we get home from work?  I STOOD up for him!  I put myself and my own S in a vulnerable position doing so!  I went to court, I went to/helped arrange all of D's family therapy counseling, including with his exwife and her new husband.  I helped him to get legal issues resolved that I KNOW that wouldn't have without me.  (When I say "helped," I actually mean that I facilitated everything that was needed and he was more like a confused numb passenger because he was often just being bullied by his ex and acting out of fear instead of really thinking) I helped him to get his daughter and was a sense of security for her when she was alienated from dad and frightened of him unfairly.

I am pissed off at all that I did for him and he will never acknowledge it, he can never feel that anyone was helpful to him because of his narcissism, so this is not his reality.

I did it because that's what families do!  They stick up for each other!  They protect one another!

I thought that my level of commitment was the same he would return!  Wow I was sooOOoo wrong!

When the major court issues were done, he had a moment and looked at me and said he didn't know what direction he wanted to go in life.  He was talking about moving!  He was out loud thinking of what the next chapter was for him.  I looked at him in complete HORROR because I realized that not one of his thoughts about what "was next" included ME!

I was just there to get him through that rough patch?

I was just there for him to cope with the devastation of losing his former married life, losing his daughter, and just there for the fricking worst part of the ride of his life? 

And he didn't see me as the LIFE partner that I thought we were?  Wow!  Still is unbelievable to me!

[downwhim]

WhoMe51,

I hear you. Whether it is called attachment disorder or engulfment they run when they get too close. Mine asked me to marry him and gave me a gorgeous ring, got on his knees and all. He then did everything to screw it up. He proceed the next several months to withdrawal sexually, quit talking to me, criticized me, spent less time together, when I questioned all of this he made me feel like I was crazy. The commitment frightened him. To this day, I have no clue as to why he even asked me. Impulsivity? Fear of Abandonment? Not sure.

[downwhim]

JRT,

Your post made me realized something about myself and your ex. There is a real fear that comes around when your son moves out. For me, it was my last of 3 boys and the pain of him moving on even though I knew he should was gut wrenching. Whether they were getting a long or not. Him moving in with his step dad I am sure was causing her major anxiety. She kept it all inside but she was stirring up.

Also, she would now have to face the r/s. She I am sure like my ex, she felt engulfed and yet abandoned when you went on your business trip. She may have thought, this is what it will be like, I will be alone when he goes on trips and my son is gone too. Imagine how that would have been like for you every time you left town. When they are alone, they get into trouble. Just a thought.

[downwhim]

Sun0flower,

Yep, here is a list of a few things I co-dependently did for my ex before he decided to dump me:

1. Helped him re-decorate his entire house. Picked tile, granite, paint color, inside and out.

2. Gave him an Ethan Allan bedroom set for his son who was on a crappy mattress with no frame.

3. Gave his daughter an extra big screen tv for her room along with a sign that said "thank heaven for little girls."

4.  I did things for his daughter - took her to starbucks for her first time ever for hot chocolate. Mani/pedi kids day, shopping at the mall. Her mother never took her places. Ever.

5.  I did things for his son like -Picked him up from high school with a migraine, got medication for him, took care of him and made him lunch later

6. Basically was an advocate for his kids as their step dad was abusive.

7. Was there for my exBPD fiancé when he had 5 different surgeries, doc appts, pills, recovery, food, change of clothes, all needed to help.

8.  Listened to him non stop over disability payments, his screwed up ex wives problems, his family issues etc...

9.  Put up with verbal abuse repeatedly, emotional abuse via putdowns, lies, comparisons, etc.

8 years later I was left in the form of an email.  He said he never wanted to get married again and we were through.

It is my job now after going through the stages of grieve to come out of this mess a BETTER person. I know I will recycle through the stages many times over. Today you reminded me of my anger over giving and giving with the false hope that our r/s would grow. Bpd's put an end to growth. It is not familiar to them. My fantasy and my codependency kept me in a strange state for years.

It is time to take back my self worth, listen to my feelings and speak up. I allowed him to bully me and make me fearful of stating how I felt. My next relationship will be different and hopefully a lot better because of what I have learned from this one.

[JRT]

JRT,

Your post made me realized something about myself and your ex. There is a real fear that comes around when your son moves out. For me, it was my last of 3 boys and the pain of him moving on even though I knew he should was gut wrenching. Whether they were getting a long or not. Him moving in with his step dad I am sure was causing her major anxiety. She kept it all inside but she was stirring up.

Also, she would now have to face the r/s. She I am sure like my ex, she felt engulfed and yet abandoned when you went on your business trip. She may have thought, this is what it will be like, I will be alone when he goes on trips and my son is gone too. Imagine how that would have been like for you every time you left town. When they are alone, they get into trouble. Just a thought.

I really think that you are 100% spot on!

I went to Vegas with my ex wife once where she wanted to going on this 'ride' that dropped you in a harness from several hundred feet high. When we got there, she looked at the reality of it and decided that she was not going to do it. I think that my exBPD must have felt something. When she was married, was that her son was part of the package. This time it was not... .Although it must have been murder for her that night, it certainly doesn't justify her actions and it doesn't explain the silent treatment 6 months later. 

[Suzn]

I'd help her out both financially and with advice. But honestly, I think she was kind of ashamed that she couldn't be fiscally responsible.

Whoop... .caution. This is how you would feel in the same situation. Do not assume she felt the same.

Shadow you've seen her chaos from afar since you didn't live together. We can only imagine now what it would have been like if you were living together and you saw all the not so pretty day to day stuff.

You helped her out financially and she leaned on you for comfort... .She doesn't need legal fees now or a shoulder to cry on.

[ShadowIntheNight]

I'd help her out both financially and with advice. But honestly, I think she was kind of ashamed that she couldn't be fiscally responsible.

Whoop... .caution. This is how you would feel in the same situation. Do not assume she felt the same.

Shadow you've seen her chaos from afar since you didn't live together. We can only imagine now what it would have been like if you were living together and you saw all the not so pretty day to day stuff.

You helped her out financially and she leaned on you for comfort... .She doesn't need legal fees now or a shoulder to cry on.

Well in reality, I did know what was going on in her daily life. I feel very sure she wasn't lying to me in the early years of our relationship about her activities as we spoke quite frequently through the day and in the evenings as well. I knew something was up last Spring because her communication with me changed, first it wasn't as personal, then it diminished, then it disappeared. So I feel sure that I knew very well how her daily life was going. And I was there often enough (and for extended time) to experience her daily life.

What I did not know, because she didn't express it as such, was that she clearly had deeper anxieties than I realized. And that's not even involving the court case. As a matter of fact, the court case wasn't even a court case at first.

The state AG did an evaluation to determine if child support should be increased from the father. It had never gone up in the 7 years they were divorced though it was to be reviewed every 3 years. Because of that the state ordered that his child support be doubled. Her exH got pissed about it and two weeks later filed a petition to get custody of the kids for no reason other than to not pay increased child support. The case had nothing to do with my exgf's parenting. It was simply a ploy for him to not pay increased child support. How it turned into 2.5 years is still beyond me.

I feel pretty strongly now that my ex's mother somehow triggered her. And Suzn, you are right, I should not say that she may have been ashamed. I do know that her mother would say things that hurt my ex's feelings when she borrowed money from her, and my projection was based on her telling me how she felt. I don't know if she was ashamed, but I do know she was hurt by those "scolding a." thanks for the reminder about projections.

[antelope]

When she wasn't stressed, my ex was a gem. The last 2.5 years had been hard on us both. Now that major stress is gone and so is she. Some jackass who didn't have to go thru one minute of that ordeal is now getting the benefits of my ex not being majorly stressed. It totally sucks.

^^there is something that we ALL mistakenly assume/feel about the beginnings of relationships with a BPD... .that they are truly wonderfully happy with the replacement... .

at one point, we were a replacement... .

understand: with a BPD, replacement is ALWAYS simultaneously occurring with an ending... .

in other words, while they are 'running away' from the mess they made with us, they are restarting a fresh web of lies with a stranger... .

this is not a 'happy' or 'euphoric' existence, as we perceive it to be, esp. after experiencing what we felt was pure joy when things were starting with us

the disorder allows for one consistency: inconsistency

the disorder is by definition one that is punctuated by CHRONIC misery

NO ONE is ever reaping any spoils with these people

everything about your relationship was pretty much a lie... .focus on the reality of that!

[ShadowIntheNight]

When she wasn't stressed, my ex was a gem. The last 2.5 years had been hard on us both. Now that major stress is gone and so is she. Some jackass who didn't have to go thru one minute of that ordeal is now getting the benefits of my ex not being majorly stressed. It totally sucks.

^^there is something that we ALL mistakenly assume/feel about the beginnings of relationships with a BPD... .that they are truly wonderfully happy with the replacement... .

at one point, we were a replacement... .

understand: with a BPD, replacement is ALWAYS simultaneously occurring with an ending... .

in other words, while they are 'running away' from the mess they made with us, they are restarting a fresh web of lies with a stranger... .

this is not a 'happy' or 'euphoric' existence, as we perceive it to be, esp. after experiencing what we felt was pure joy when things were starting with us

the disorder allows for one consistency: inconsistency

the disorder is by definition one that is punctuated by CHRONIC misery

NO ONE is ever reaping any spoils with these people

everything about your relationship was pretty much a lie... .focus on the reality of that!

While I agree with your premiss i will reserve judgement on whether or not 10 whole years of my life was a lie at this time. That paints a pretty cynical picture, and if that is the case then there really is no point in ever having a relationship again. The more serious issues of painting another person black and devaluing and discarding didn't show up until about 4 yrs ago. We had already been together for 6 years by then. I had no inkling that there was something messed up about her until last year. There was no reason for me to assume she was lying to me about her life, I didn't know her life. For that matter, she had no way of knowing I wasn't lying about my life. That is part and parcel of loving someone. You take your time and see if their words and actions match up. Honestly, hers did.

Our relationship didn't turn serious until about 7 months after we met. I had already been burned before so I am skeptical of anything looking or sounding too good to be true. If you met her today, many here wouldn't think something was off about her. I suspect many here could say the same about their partner. So to go as far as saying my entire relationship, or anyone else's for that matter, was a lie is stretching it a bit too far for me. As I said before, it wasn't until 3 months after our relationship ended that I even learned about BPD. And there isn't a marking on them that says "I'm BPD, watch out!"

But I can safely say her current relationship is a lie because I know why she said she was going there. And that doesn't paint a pretty picture of her at all.

[apollotech]

Mine was like yours Apollo; she was simply now in her element unless there was drama and chaos. Although I feel that she was triggered by moving in with me, her son going off to live with his step dad and my going out of town (abandonment) the bigger issue is that she had achieved all that she wanted and that life was free of chaos and drama (relatively) especially with her son being out of the picture.

I'll never forget her even on vacations scanning her email accounts for some kind of 'issue' that she needed to tend to to the extent that not having it to deal with gave her anxiety. I recall her having to deal with some sort of controversy with her son while we were in Europe after I proposed. It was a 30 minute conversation while I waited IN EUROPE! Her phone bill was astronomical. 

I imagine that now, among other things, she is thriving on the chaos of her smear campaign against me. I think that they get the ball rolling and are committed to the mindset even though the trigger is long gone. 

JRT,

You know the story that I told you about the smear campaign that was started on FB against me while I sat not three feet from her, my BPDexgf. Where/when drama didn't exist she took determined steps to create it. They don't have the capacity to consider/understand the consequences of their actions.

At the end of the day they are adults with the emotional maturity of a child... .not their fault, but it is what it is.

[JRT]

When she wasn't stressed, my ex was a gem. The last 2.5 years had been hard on us both. Now that major stress is gone and so is she. Some jackass who didn't have to go thru one minute of that ordeal is now getting the benefits of my ex not being majorly stressed. It totally sucks.

^^there is something that we ALL mistakenly assume/feel about the beginnings of relationships with a BPD... .that they are truly wonderfully happy with the replacement... .

at one point, we were a replacement... .

understand: with a BPD, replacement is ALWAYS simultaneously occurring with an ending... .

in other words, while they are 'running away' from the mess they made with us, they are restarting a fresh web of lies with a stranger... .

this is not a 'happy' or 'euphoric' existence, as we perceive it to be, esp. after experiencing what we felt was pure joy when things were starting with us

the disorder allows for one consistency: inconsistency

the disorder is by definition one that is punctuated by CHRONIC misery

NO ONE is ever reaping any spoils with these people

everything about your relationship was pretty much a lie... .focus on the reality of that!

Antelope.d... while this seems to be the case most of the time, it is not the case all of the time. And even when it is, it takes different twists.

My ex, for example, tends to sit out after her relationships... .her being a waif/hermit might contribute to this. notwithstanding, a replacement is usually a 'rebound' kind of r/s, as opposed to a conscious decision to be with someone of compatible quality for them. Hence, we are not always the replacement given this definition.

Lastly, the replacement need not always be a romantic partner. I can be a parent, friend, family member or a co-worker. In the case of my ex, it is her son. I was lucky that he was in the triangle as she never raged at me ever. Rather she raged at him as a constant.

[JRT]

Mine was like yours Apollo; she was simply now in her element unless there was drama and chaos. Although I feel that she was triggered by moving in with me, her son going off to live with his step dad and my going out of town (abandonment) the bigger issue is that she had achieved all that she wanted and that life was free of chaos and drama (relatively) especially with her son being out of the picture.

I'll never forget her even on vacations scanning her email accounts for some kind of 'issue' that she needed to tend to to the extent that not having it to deal with gave her anxiety. I recall her having to deal with some sort of controversy with her son while we were in Europe after I proposed. It was a 30 minute conversation while I waited IN EUROPE! Her phone bill was astronomical. 

I imagine that now, among other things, she is thriving on the chaos of her smear campaign against me. I think that they get the ball rolling and are committed to the mindset even though the trigger is long gone. 

JRT,

You know the story that I told you about the smear campaign that was started on FB against me while I sat not three feet from her, my BPDexgf. Where/when drama didn't exist she took determined steps to create it. They don't have the capacity to consider/understand the consequences of their actions.

At the end of the day they are adults with the emotional maturity of a child... .not their fault, but it is what it is.

True that... .that was an incredible episode! Creating drama where there was none and not giving a rats a$$ about the consequences. Sounds very familiar to me!

[Reecer1588]

When she wasn't stressed, my ex was a gem. The last 2.5 years had been hard on us both. Now that major stress is gone and so is she. Some jackass who didn't have to go thru one minute of that ordeal is now getting the benefits of my ex not being majorly stressed. It totally sucks.

^^there is something that we ALL mistakenly assume/feel about the beginnings of relationships with a BPD... .that they are truly wonderfully happy with the replacement... .

at one point, we were a replacement... .

understand: with a BPD, replacement is ALWAYS simultaneously occurring with an ending... .

in other words, while they are 'running away' from the mess they made with us, they are restarting a fresh web of lies with a stranger... .

this is not a 'happy' or 'euphoric' existence, as we perceive it to be, esp. after experiencing what we felt was pure joy when things were starting with us

the disorder allows for one consistency: inconsistency

the disorder is by definition one that is punctuated by CHRONIC misery

NO ONE is ever reaping any spoils with these people

everything about your relationship was pretty much a lie... .focus on the reality of that!

Antelope.d... while this seems to be the case most of the time, it is not the case all of the time. And even when it is, it takes different twists.

My ex, for example, tends to sit out after her relationships... .her being a waif/hermit might contribute to this. notwithstanding, a replacement is usually a 'rebound' kind of r/s, as opposed to a conscious decision to be with someone of compatible quality for them. Hence, we are not always the replacement given this definition.

Lastly, the replacement need not always be a romantic partner. I can be a parent, friend, family member or a co-worker. In the case of my ex, it is her son. I was lucky that he was in the triangle as she never raged at me ever. Rather she raged at him as a constant.

JRT, I was wondering about your thoughts if something like a hobby/obsession could be deemed a "replacement"? As you know, my ex is and always has been obsessed with horses. Now while this obsession was always omnipresent in our relationship, it was more "under the radar" while she took more of an interest in painting and photography, both of which I participated with her in. I have never participated in anything with her horse related, and I believe this is a large reason why it seems to have taken over the bane of her existence now, her entire life. If she's working on a painting, well we did that together, if she's snapping pics with her camera, well we loved doing that together, but horses will not trigger this.

Also, I believe God might have taken some of the brunt of her change. She's much, much more religious now. Again we didn't do very much of that stuff together, so it wouldn't trigger her.


Thanks for your thoughts, JRT.

[JRT]

All that I have read about replacements and triangulation has been related with people... .I have not read about a repalcement that was an interest or a hobby... .

It wouldn't make sense to me if it did... .those pursuits are just distractions; they do not satisfy the interpersonal NEED that a real replacement provides to them... .

I can understand why you would raise the question... .however, I really think that her re-embrace of her hobby and her faith is probably just her trying to occupy her mind and self sooth... .I think, Reeecer, that this is a very good sign... .might even indicate that she might not be  BPD... .not sure but I know that they can generally not self soothe.

[Reecer1588]

All that I have read about replacements and triangulation has been related with people... .I have not read about a repalcement that was an interest or a hobby... .

It wouldn't make sense to me if it did... .those pursuits are just distractions; they do not satisfy the interpersonal NEED that a real replacement provides to them... .

I can understand why you would raise the question... .however, I really think that her re-embrace of her hobby and her faith is probably just her trying to occupy her mind and self sooth... .I think, Reeecer, that this is a very good sign... .might even indicate that she might not be  BPD... .not sure but I know that they can generally not self soothe.

Hopefully,  here are some other things I would need to include: Her Mom and her became much closer over the situation with me, closer than I ever saw them before. My ex and I had a mutual friend from highschool that went to her same college, she made ardent efforts to try and triangulate with him (Clear as day wanted her to be the victim, him the rescuer, me the pursuer, he showed me the texts that she sent him), fortunately my friend saw the crazy in her and blew her off.

Truly, I do not have a complete picture of my ex's life anymore, really it's a very, very fragmented picture. I know that she has gained 20+ pounds since she left back for college, I know she's not keeping up her hygiene very well (eww her teeth are YELLOW now), I know that her eyes and her smile now look very empty, like she's faking it, I know that she's reaching out a lot to the ministry, watching unimaginable amounts of Netflix, going deep-deep into the equine scene at her college.

That's the picture I have.

I know the mother could be serving as a temporary replacement, I know my ex has made much more of an effort to make friends now, and I know she's constantly talking about how "one has to get rid of the bad things in life" ( who do you think that is? )


I do not want to hijack this valuable thread. You're welcome to private message me on this subject, JRT or anyone else that takes an interest.

[Sunfl0wer]

Just kinds thinkin out loud... .

Yep, here is a list of a few things I co-dependently did for my ex before he decided to dump me:

Downwhim, idk if it is the same, or different with you, however, I don't think "what I did" was codependent.  I made sacrifices for him and think that IS what life partners do!  I do not feel that my positive actions were bad or codependent.  At the time, I feel I was trying to behave in an interdependent way.  I think it would be codependent if I were doing things he could do for himself but was playing victim and not doing it.  Or if I was doing things he could do but I just wanted him to depend on me.  That was not the case.  I was doing things he could not do or figure out because I was being supportive of our future together.

That is not to say that I was not being codependent in other ways.  I know I was. I know that I was so OFTEN neglecting my needs to "help him."  It seems like the same thing, but maybe it isn't.  I would not want to label, for ex, "going to counseling with a partners D" as codependent and then in the future think that is an action that should not happen again in my future.  Instead codependent is less about a specific action, but maybe it is more about the function the action serves in the relationship?

Maybe what was codependent was that I was allowing his needs to be prioritized over mine, Idk, something I guess I haven't exactly sorted out

Idk if this makes sense?

My expectation, like OP was that we would be a strong couple who could get through anything.  We would come out the other end stronger.  We would be interdependent.

I failed to realize that my devotion was one sided.  It WAS codependent, just not sure what pieces exactly.