Narc

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Day 25 NC, and I come to the realization I was simply used. I spent 14 years being a self esteem boost to someone who viewed me as a last resort.  When life got better, out the door I went. He also took pleasure in hurting me. There was never love and there will never be an acknowledgment of the hurt or any kind of apology. It will be NC until he hits bottom again and only then will he return out of sheer desperation.

How am I supposed to make "peace" with this? It wasnt real. When will the nightmares stop? When I think of how I was intimate with this person, I actually want to throw up. If someone is so sadistic it puts an extra spring in their step to see you hurt (yes actually said to me) isn't that the definition of sick?

[Beach_Babe]

Day 25 NC, and I come to the realization I was simply used. I spent 14 years being a self esteem boost to someone who viewed me as a last resort.  When life got better, out the door I went. He also took pleasure in hurting me. There was never love and there will never be an acknowledgment of the hurt or any kind of apology. It will be NC until he hits bottom again and only then will he return out of sheer desperation.

How am I supposed to make "peace" with this? It wasnt real. When will the nightmares stop? When I think of how I was intimate with this person, I actually want to throw up. If someone is so sadistic it puts an extra spring in their step to see you hurt (yes actually said to me) isn't that the definition of sick?

[Reforming]

Hi Beachbabe,

25 days. . I know how hard NC can be, but this is your longest period of NC so far right? Good for you  

"I come to the realization I was simply used. I spent 14 years being a self esteem boost to someone who viewed me as a last resort.  When life got better, out the door I went."

I found it very painful believing that the person I loved could stroll off happily into the sunset, without a care in the world and seemingly immune to the pain and hurt I was feeling. It must be particularly hard when you struggling to recover from surgery. I can totally understand that you feel very abandoned right now.

"There was never love and there will never be an acknowledgment of the hurt or any kind of apology. It will be NC until he hits bottom again and only then will he return out of sheer desperation. "

This is very tough. I never got any real acknowledgement from my ex of the pain and damage she did. I think that's true of many other members here. It takes courage and maturity to own up to our mistakes and most PDs really struggle to do this. Eventually I realised that I needed to find closure elsewhere. This site and working with a good T really helped me, but it took time and effort.  What do you think would help you to heal?

"How am I supposed to make "peace" with this?"

There's no quick answer to this, but while I felt very angry at my ex I realised that I also felt very angry at myself for staying so long. Learning to forgive myself was one of keys to moving forward.

"When will the nightmares stop? "

The nightmares are hard, I went through this too and I felt like my own mind was betraying me. They do fade over time and it's important to try and accept that they are part of the emotional detoxing that you need to do.

"When I think of how I was intimate with this person, I actually want to throw up. If someone is so sadistic it puts an extra spring in their step to see you hurt (yes actually said to me) isn't that the definition of sick?"

Accepting that my is genuinely ill and incapable of having a healthy relationship with me was something that I really struggled with. It's hard work, but posting here and reading the stories of other members who had worked through the process and come out the other side really helped me.

You've probably already read the section on healing, but I found I needed to revisit it multiple times to absorb it.

Healing the big picture

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331263#msg1331263

Thanks for posting. We're here for you

Reforming

[jammo1989]

Day 25 NC, and I come to the realization I was simply used. I spent 14 years being a self esteem boost to someone who viewed me as a last resort.  When life got better, out the door I went. He also took pleasure in hurting me. There was never love and there will never be an acknowledgment of the hurt or any kind of apology. It will be NC until he hits bottom again and only then will he return out of sheer desperation.

How am I supposed to make "peace" with this? It wasnt real. When will the nightmares stop? When I think of how I was intimate with this person, I actually want to throw up. If someone is so sadistic it puts an extra spring in their step to see you hurt (yes actually said to me) isn't that the definition of sick

Hey Beachbabe, you should really watch some videoes by Delusion Dispeller on You Tube, shes a woman that dated a Narc for years just like you, and she gives so incredible insight into the Narc, she is currently training to be a phycologist and her information on Narcs is really helpful.

[Infared]

My ex definitely took great pleasure in hurting me when she ran out the door with new supply.  She reveled in acting out with him in public when they accidentally (?) ran into me.

I still find it almost impossible to comprehend... .but I have witnessed it on multiple occasions.

There is no mistaking the smug look on her face.

All I can do is take care of me. It is what it is, and I can take some warmth in the fact that I have enough dignity and compassion not to treat others that way. Especially people who were dear to me in my life. Glad I am not her. For me the behavior is disturbing, but I cannot change it.

When she is alone, she tries to engage me?

What am I supposed to do with that? It's insanity to me... .or perhaps BPD. Not sure which.

This is not the person that I knew and lived with for 5 years... .but it certainly is who she actually is. All I can do is accept her (their), behavior... .maintain NC and work at healing myself from the damage that was done by her words and actions.

There is a lot of support out there, like this website, so I head for that... .not much else to be done.

[Reforming]

My ex definitely took great pleasure in hurting me when she ran out the door with new supply.  She reveled in acting out with him in public when they accidentally (?) ran into me.

I still find it almost impossible to comprehend... .but I have witnessed it on multiple occasions.

There is no mistaking the smug look on her face.

All I can do is take care of me. It is what it is, and I can take some warmth in the fact that I have enough dignity and compassion not to treat others that way. Especially people who were dear to me in my life. Glad I am not her. For me the behavior is disturbing, but I cannot change it.

When she is alone, she tries to engage me?

What am I supposed to do with that? It's insanity to me... .or perhaps BPD. Not sure which.

This is not the person that I knew and lived with for 5 years... .but it certainly is who she actually is. All I can do is accept her (their), behavior... .maintain NC and work at healing myself from the damage that was done by her words and actions.

There is a lot of support out there, like this website, so I head for that... .not much else to be done.

I think shame is at the root of a lot of BPD behaviour. It feels enormously cruel and hurtful to us for very understandable reasons, but deep down they are children overwhelmed with shame

Facing up to their behaviour is terrifying because underneath their facade they feel so profoundly defective. So they try bury these feelings it by splitting their exes black. It may not make their behaviour feel any less cruel to us, but it's how they function.

Reforming

[Infared]

My ex definitely took great pleasure in hurting me when she ran out the door with new supply.  She reveled in acting out with him in public when they accidentally (?) ran into me.

I still find it almost impossible to comprehend... .but I have witnessed it on multiple occasions.

There is no mistaking the smug look on her face.

All I can do is take care of me. It is what it is, and I can take some warmth in the fact that I have enough dignity and compassion not to treat others that way. Especially people who were dear to me in my life. Glad I am not her. For me the behavior is disturbing, but I cannot change it.

When she is alone, she tries to engage me?

What am I supposed to do with that? It's insanity to me... .or perhaps BPD. Not sure which.

This is not the person that I knew and lived with for 5 years... .but it certainly is who she actually is. All I can do is accept her (their), behavior... .maintain NC and work at healing myself from the damage that was done by her words and actions.

There is a lot of support out there, like this website, so I head for that... .not much else to be done.

I think shame is at the root of a lot of BPD behaviour. It feels enormously cruel and hurtful to us for very understandable reasons, but deep down they are children overwhelmed with shame

Facing up to their behaviour is terrifying because underneath their facade they feel so profoundly defective. So they try bury these feelings it by splitting their exes black. It may not make their behaviour feel any less cruel to us, but it's how they function.

Reforming

I have to believe that what you are saying is true. I can't think of anything else that would explain the complete flip in her behavior.  It is downright cruel. ... .and coming to terms with how damaged this person is I found to be quite damaging to me. I got hurt and I got very angry... .but I acted as an adult, processed my anger in healthy ways, and held myself to a higher standard with the help of a T and any support that I could find.

Coming to this forum has really helped me sort things out after the fact. It's been invaluable!

[Reforming]

My ex definitely took great pleasure in hurting me when she ran out the door with new supply.  She reveled in acting out with him in public when they accidentally (?) ran into me.

I still find it almost impossible to comprehend... .but I have witnessed it on multiple occasions.

There is no mistaking the smug look on her face.

All I can do is take care of me. It is what it is, and I can take some warmth in the fact that I have enough dignity and compassion not to treat others that way. Especially people who were dear to me in my life. Glad I am not her. For me the behavior is disturbing, but I cannot change it.

When she is alone, she tries to engage me?

What am I supposed to do with that? It's insanity to me... .or perhaps BPD. Not sure which.

This is not the person that I knew and lived with for 5 years... .but it certainly is who she actually is. All I can do is accept her (their), behavior... .maintain NC and work at healing myself from the damage that was done by her words and actions.

There is a lot of support out there, like this website, so I head for that... .not much else to be done.

I think shame is at the root of a lot of BPD behaviour. It feels enormously cruel and hurtful to us for very understandable reasons, but deep down they are children overwhelmed with shame

Facing up to their behaviour is terrifying because underneath their facade they feel so profoundly defective. So they try bury these feelings it by splitting their exes black. It may not make their behaviour feel any less cruel to us, but it's how they function.

Reforming

I have to believe that what you are saying is true. I can't think of anything else that would explain the complete flip in her behavior.  It is downright cruel. ... .and coming to terms with how damaged this person is I found to be quite damaging to me. I got hurt and I got very angry... .but I acted as an adult, processed my anger in healthy ways, and held myself to a higher standard with the help of a T and any support that I could find.

Coming to this forum has really helped me sort things out after the fact. It's been invaluable!

Infared

It takes a lot guts and strength to work on ourselves. You deserve a lot of credit for the good things you're doing.

I wish it wasn't true and I wish the BPD didn't exist.

I know how immensely cruel and hurtful it can feel and I agree that these relationships can be very damaging. I'm not here to defending or excuse PD behaviour but I've found that understanding what drives it has helped me to forgive myself and heal and that is more important to me than anything else

How are things with you?

Reforming

[Infared]

My ex definitely took great pleasure in hurting me when she ran out the door with new supply.  She reveled in acting out with him in public when they accidentally (?) ran into me.

I still find it almost impossible to comprehend... .but I have witnessed it on multiple occasions.

There is no mistaking the smug look on her face.

All I can do is take care of me. It is what it is, and I can take some warmth in the fact that I have enough dignity and compassion not to treat others that way. Especially people who were dear to me in my life. Glad I am not her. For me the behavior is disturbing, but I cannot change it.

When she is alone, she tries to engage me?

What am I supposed to do with that? It's insanity to me... .or perhaps BPD. Not sure which.

This is not the person that I knew and lived with for 5 years... .but it certainly is who she actually is. All I can do is accept her (their), behavior... .maintain NC and work at healing myself from the damage that was done by her words and actions.

There is a lot of support out there, like this website, so I head for that... .not much else to be done.

I think shame is at the root of a lot of BPD behaviour. It feels enormously cruel and hurtful to us for very understandable reasons, but deep down they are children overwhelmed with shame

Facing up to their behaviour is terrifying because underneath their facade they feel so profoundly defective. So they try bury these feelings it by splitting their exes black. It may not make their behaviour feel any less cruel to us, but it's how they function.

Reforming

I have to believe that what you are saying is true. I can't think of anything else that would explain the complete flip in her behavior.  It is downright cruel. ... .and coming to terms with how damaged this person is I found to be quite damaging to me. I got hurt and I got very angry... .but I acted as an adult, processed my anger in healthy ways, and held myself to a higher standard with the help of a T and any support that I could find.

Coming to this forum has really helped me sort things out after the fact. It's been invaluable!

Infared

It takes a lot guts and strength to work on ourselves. You deserve a lot of credit for the good things you're doing.

I wish it wasn't true and I wish the BPD didn't exist.

I know how immensely cruel and hurtful it can feel and I agree that these relationships can be very damaging. I'm not here to defending or excuse PD behaviour but I've found that understanding what drives it has helped me to forgive myself and heal and that is more important to me than anything else

How are things with you?

Reforming

I agree, reforming. . A pwBPD is ill. It helps to understand that. Also, as you say, and I know ( ) it does not take away how damaging and effective their cruelty is to us. I guess I struggle with that deep connection that I formed with that PERSOn and the abrupt discard. I intellectually get it. Completely healing the inner hurt is another matter for me. It's better for me... .but not close to "healed". 

[sbr1050]

... .I come to the realization I was simply used. I spent 14 years being a self esteem boost to someone who viewed me as a last resort.  When life got better, out the door I went. He also took pleasure in hurting me. There was never love and there will never be an acknowledgment of the hurt or any kind of apology. It will be NC until he hits bottom again and only then will he return out of sheer desperation.

How am I supposed to make "peace" with this? It wasnt real. When will the nightmares stop? When I think of how I was intimate with this person, I actually want to throw up. If someone is so sadistic it puts an extra spring in their step to see you hurt (yes actually said to me) isn't that the definition of sick?

18 years of the same for me.  Mine will never admit that he had a part in any of what went on in the relationship.  He thinks he is totally normal... .

[going places]

Day 25 NC, and I come to the realization I was simply used. I spent 14 years being a self esteem boost to someone who viewed me as a last resort.  When life got better, out the door I went. He also took pleasure in hurting me. There was never love and there will never be an acknowledgment of the hurt or any kind of apology. It will be NC until he hits bottom again and only then will he return out of sheer desperation.

For 25 years, I was the 'cheerleader, house hold manager, child raiser, cook, maid, accountant, etc"

He went to work, came home. He would work on the cars when they needed attention.

He would mow grass... .occasionally.

THAT'S IT.

I did everything else... .why? Because I was a GOOD WIFE. I was a Godly wife.

I used to look at this 'bitterly'.

I used to look at this at felt ripped off (because I was) used (was) cheated (was).

But I did the right thing.

I was the good person.

I was true, honest, real. I loved, cared, had compassion, encouragement.

I was the real, person.

I am still me. I am still honest, real, caring, compassionate, encouraging , loving.

What his is, is history, my past, a learning curve, a lesson.

RETRAIN YOUR BRAIN to speak this kind of truth into your head, heart, and life.

YOU were real. Not him.

FOCUS on YOU

Look at it this way.

You are standing in front of the stove, the burner is on and it's red hot.

Your are attracted by the beauty of it's glow

As you move closer, you ignore the heat, because of the glow.

You lay your hand on it.

It burns, it disfigures your skin, it hurts, it hurts for a long time, it requires medical attention, lots of care to get it to heal, and finally, the scar.

So when you walk past the stove, and the glowing burner is on... .don't look at the glow.

Look at the scar.

Relive a little bit of how you got that scar.

Then walk away from the stove.

Let that scar be a 'lesson'.

Been there (only seeing the GLOW), Done that (ignored the heat, got burnt) Got the T shirt (the scar)

Now move on.

Do not repeat history, learn from it!

How am I supposed to make "peace" with this? It wasnt real. When will the nightmares stop? When I think of how I was intimate with this person, I actually want to throw up. If someone is so sadistic it puts an extra spring in their step to see you hurt (yes actually said to me) isn't that the definition of sick?

You know that YOU were the real person.

Real love

Real trust

Real Compassion

REAL caring, etc.

You are real. He is not.

I am 10 months post divorce (25 years) and I had a nightmare 2 nights ago, and that was the only one in April.

Every month, less and less.

BUT

You have to retrain your brain.

When I was ruminating, marinading in pain, and what if's and how could he do that, and how could I be so stupid... .they were more frequent, more intense, and more vivid.

When a negative thought would start coming in; I would replace it with a TRUE REAL positive thought.

I prayed. I prayed and I begged God, begged Him for help.

He did.

Sometimes it was not "how I wanted to be helped" but; in the end, it was a tremendous help.

I am so sorry this happened to you.

I am, truly, so sorry.

[Beach_Babe]

Thats the thing. To those members whose BPDs reach out to them. Maybe its not a perfect apology, maybe its driven out of need but whether you choose to re engage  or not, it is not some validation you mattered?

Reforming: I am sorry you never received any acknowledgement either.    This site has been immensely helpful, as is working with a T. I think closure would help me heal, but its unlikely im ever going to get that. I'm not angry for staying so long, I loved him and wanted to make things work. I do accept the relationship ended, and BPD or nor he had a right to do so. But im angry how it ended.  Forgiving myself is a real biggie but in no way did I not deserve to be smeared, degraded, made into a criminal (i.e: threatened with police) and discarded like trash. His reasoning was that those things were necessary because I refused to get it and go away. And also the discard because I "disobeyed" him talking and hanging out with the mutual friend. But the push pull was so strong everytime Id offer to leave in the past hed run to pull me back in. The idealization then started again. I never knew where I stood. Until it was too late I guess.

Thank you for that info, ive been trying to work with my therapist on the lessons. It just bothers me how he can just move on, and likely feel nothing but glee I am gone. Ifound out he dumped me a whole month before this new job even started. So I wasnt even dumped for something tangible, im such a last resort I was dumped in anticipation of something better. Thats pretty bad. dunno.

jammo: Oh yeah, ive seen her videos. She is pretty good. How are you doing today?  

Infared: That is awful how she tries to hurt you in public    What kinds of things does she do? That is twisted she still tries to engage you later. You are a really strong person I can tell. That must be awful to live nearby.

sbr: 18 years sounds like h**l. Why do you think you stayed? Did he blame the breakup on you?


goingplaces: the scar certainly is a lesson;and im done touching the hot stove. Aee you NC as well, or are there children?

[Reforming]

"Thats the thing. To those members whose BPDs reach out to them. Maybe its not a perfect apology, maybe its driven out of need but whether you choose to re engage  or not, it is not some validation you mattered?"

Sadly I think reaching four a recycle or trying to reengage is not necessarily the same as validating us or acknowledging that they cared about us. It's not about us. It's about their need though I do understand why we can still long for it despite everything that we know about them. These relationships can be very addictive

"Reforming: I am sorry you never received any acknowledgement either.   Empathy This site has been immensely helpful, as is working with a T. I think closure would help me heal, but its unlikely im ever going to get that."

Well done for working with a T. It takes guts and strength to work on ourselves. Kudos to you  

"I'm not angry for staying so long, I loved him and wanted to make things work"

I felt the same though I also felt angry that I spent so long with someone who couldn't give me the love that I need. She probably felt the same too

"I do accept the relationship ended, and BPD or nor he had a right to do so. But im angry how it ended.  Forgiving myself is a real biggie but in no way did I not deserve to be smeared, degraded, made into a criminal (i.e: threatened with police) and discarded like trash."

Nobody deserves to be treated with cruelty and contempt and it's heartbreaking when it comes from someone who you loved deeply.

"But the push pull was so strong everytime Id offer to leave in the past hed run to pull me back in. The idealization then started again. I never knew where I stood. Until it was too late I guess."

The push pull can really break you down. I don't know if you've read about Pavlov or intermittent reinforcement, but it's a struggle to hold onto yourself when you're living with this

"Thank you for that info, ive been trying to work with my therapist on the lessons. It just bothers me how he can just move on, and likely feel nothing but glee I am gone. Ifound out he dumped me a whole month before this new job even started. So I wasnt even dumped for something tangible, im such a last resort I was dumped in anticipation of something better. Thats pretty bad. dunno."

I agree it's very hard when you feel that someone is just discarding you without even looking over their shoulder. But from what you've written it sounds like he really struggles to hold his life together. Do you think that's going to magically change now? I did for a while, but then I sat down and wrote a list of the dark times I had with my ex. I realised this was who she was... . That won't change without a huge amount of work from her and she was never willing to do that. She might someday, I hope she does, but as time passes by that is less and less important to me.

You may be hurting now, but you're in therapy doing the work on yourself. He might seem fine, but is doing anything to really heal himself or move forward?

Who do you think is really more stuck?

Reforming

[sbr1050]

sbr: 18 years sounds like h**l. Why do you think you stayed? Did he blame the breakup on you?

Yes, he did blame it on me.  Told me I was a F*****g B***h, he was afraid of me and stormed out.  It was 18 years of this. Anytime I upset him, he would scream, "I don't need this s**t!", he takes his toys and head to his house.  Sometimes it was a matter of a few hours, sometimes overnight, sometimes a few days.  When his kids were young, they'd get dragged along, having witnessed it all.  Somehow it would smooth over and things went along for a few days or weeks.

Why did I stay?  I believe it was because I loved him and needed him.  I loved and needed his kids.  I have only my parents (who are in their 70's and one sister that lives in the UK now).  My sister rarely comes home.  WHen my parents pass on, I will, literally, be all alone in the world.  I have aquaintances as friends but I have never had a connection with anyone as I did my uBPDexbf.  I felt I had a family.  I raised his girls.  They were important to me, despite the dramas he created between us.  I wanted a child of my own WITH HIM (not someone else, HIM).  I loved him.  Still love him.  And days like today, I would give anything to have him laying here on the couch, next  to me.  But, alas, he is living his life with his 23 year old GF.  He has no place for me anymore and doesn't give me a second thought.  And my heart is broken.  I recognize that the relationship was bad; that it was unhealthy for my mental state.  But the loneliness is overwhelming most days.  And not getting better... .I miss him, I miss his friendship more than anything. 

[Infared]

From beach babe:

"Infared: That is awful how she tries to hurt you in public  barfy  What kinds of things does she do? That is twisted she still tries to engage you later. You are a really strong person I can tell. That must be awful to live nearby. "

Many many instances... .here is just one (mind you, I am no contact at the time for many many months)

I am at a sidewalk cafe with 4 men from my self help group... .(I have no Idea that they may frequent this place.). I am totally minding my own business... .they arrive, she see me and she immediately goes into victim mode to manipulate new white knight (God knows what she has told him about me?).they are standing one foot to my right.  He now gets angry and takes charge. I have done nothing and am talking to my friends, but upset inside. They go to the adjoining cafe... .both sit on the same side of the table and just stare at me.  Patrons leave from a closer table at that cafe and they both get up and change seats and now are 5 feet from me both staring me down. I am dumbfounded and in pain all at once. This is a person that I lived with for 5 years and deeply loved and cared for. Thank God I had shades on... .I never gave an inch.

Just continued to mind my own business.

I stayed my stay... .and got to scare them a little as my bicycle was chained to a tree over behind them... .so I got up and walked right toward their table... .as I legitimately had reason to.

They got VERY uncomfortable as I then walked by and retrieved my bike.and rode off.

I can not imagine behaving in that manner. Their behavior was definitely effective, though. It was emotionally very painful for me to have someone I cared for so deeply to act in that way, even though it was totally childish and actually embarrassing.

This is just one of many such encounters. Sometimes I would just get up and leave, just to avoid all the drama.  Sick stuff.

I chalk it up to codependency and mental illness.

After such instances, when alone, she will then try to walk up to me in a super market, or a parking lot like I should just stand around and chat it up with her?  What the heck? Bizarre disconnect to me.

Has anyone else been thru this kind of nonsense?

[Beach_Babe]

Reforming: is making a list of everything negative in a sense splitting them black as well?

sbr: I am so sorry you are going through this. My heart is brokem too. At the root of it is loneliness not not missing "him"per se. How long ago did he leave you for the toddler?

Infared: that sounds like meanacing behavior. Can something be done? Why should you have to put up with this?

[Infared]

Reforming: is making a list of everything negative in a sense splitting them black as well?

sbr: I am so sorry you are going through this. My heart is brokem too. At the root of it is loneliness not not missing "him"per se. How long ago did he leave you for the toddler?

Infared: that sounds like meanacing behavior. Can something be done? Why should you have to put up with this?

I just usually get up and get out most times this stuff happens I am alone. It's upsetting. I actually am in disbelief that this person that was so dear to me actually behaves in this way. I never contact her. I was never vindictive or hurtful when she ran off. She knew that she devastated me... .so I just don't comprehend the cruel element or any of it. It hurts like hell and makes no damn sense to me?

The part that really disturbs me is that when she is alone she seems to forget all of that and appears to think that everything is fine between us and that she can just walk up to me like nothing ever happened.

She never admitted to the cheating. There was never any honest conversation for closure, just lies and abuse. She is just so insane to think I should be social with her after the way she abandoned our home, painted me black to everyone, etc. It's really insane.

[dobie]

My ex definitely took great pleasure in hurting me when she ran out the door with new supply.  She reveled in acting out with him in public when they accidentally (?) ran into me.

I still find it almost impossible to comprehend... .but I have witnessed it on multiple occasions.

There is no mistaking the smug look on her face.

All I can do is take care of me. It is what it is, and I can take some warmth in the fact that I have enough dignity and compassion not to treat others that way. Especially people who were dear to me in my life. Glad I am not her. For me the behavior is disturbing, but I cannot change it.

When she is alone, she tries to engage me?

What am I supposed to do with that? It's insanity to me... .or perhaps BPD. Not sure which.

This is not the person that I knew and lived with for 5 years... .but it certainly is who she actually is. All I can do is accept her (their), behavior... .maintain NC and work at healing myself from the damage that was done by her words and actions.

There is a lot of support out there, like this website, so I head for that... .not much else to be done.

I think shame is at the root of a lot of BPD behaviour. It feels enormously cruel and hurtful to us for very understandable reasons, but deep down they are children overwhelmed with shame

Facing up to their behaviour is terrifying because underneath their facade they feel so profoundly defective. So they try bury these feelings it by splitting their exes black. It may not make their behaviour feel any less cruel to us, but it's how they function.  

Reforming

Where does the shame come from reforming ? I mean why ? Childhood abuse ? I know my x felt great shame for sleeping with her x bfs I could never understand that they were in r/s she was not a religious person so sex outside of marriage was not a sin .

My x told me a story once about a man her useless parents in trusted her to go swimming with when she was 7 she said he made her feel uncomfortable she denied he abused her but turns out later he was a convicted pedophile  

[dobie]

Reforming: is making a list of everything negative in a sense splitting them black as well?

sbr: I am so sorry you are going through this. My heart is brokem too. At the root of it is loneliness not not missing "him"per se. How long ago did he leave you for the toddler?

Infared: that sounds like meanacing behavior. Can something be done? Why should you have to put up with this?

I just usually get up and get out most times this stuff happens I am alone. It's upsetting. I actually am in disbelief that this person that was so dear to me actually behaves in this way. I never contact her. I was never vindictive or hurtful when she ran off. She knew that she devastated me... .so I just don't comprehend the cruel element or any of it. It hurts like hell and makes no damn sense to me?

The part that really disturbs me is that when she is alone she seems to forget all of that and appears to think that everything is fine between us and that she can just walk up to me like nothing ever happened.

She never admitted to the cheating. There was never any honest conversation for closure, just lies and abuse. She is just so insane to think I should be social with her after the way she abandoned our home, painted me black to everyone, etc. It's really insane.

I feel the Same infrared though I have not seen my x for seven months I know if she did she would either be very defensive , run away or act like none of this is a big deal the lack of empathy and introspection is truly astounding

She is not cruel though I don't think she would purposefully hurt me its just her and her needs are so paramount she simply can't think about me as a human with emotions , needs and feelings etc

[Infared]

Reforming: is making a list of everything negative in a sense splitting them black as well?

sbr: I am so sorry you are going through this. My heart is brokem too. At the root of it is loneliness not not missing "him"per se. How long ago did he leave you for the toddler?

Infared: that sounds like meanacing behavior. Can something be done? Why should you have to put up with this?

I just usually get up and get out most times this stuff happens I am alone. It's upsetting. I actually am in disbelief that this person that was so dear to me actually behaves in this way. I never contact her. I was never vindictive or hurtful when she ran off. She knew that she devastated me... .so I just don't comprehend the cruel element or any of it. It hurts like hell and makes no damn sense to me?

The part that really disturbs me is that when she is alone she seems to forget all of that and appears to think that everything is fine between us and that she can just walk up to me like nothing ever happened.

She never admitted to the cheating. There was never any honest conversation for closure, just lies and abuse. She is just so insane to think I should be social with her after the way she abandoned our home, painted me black to everyone, etc. It's really insane.

I feel the Same infrared though I have not seen my x for seven months I know if she did she would either be very defensive , run away or act like none of this is a big deal the lack of empathy and introspection is truly astounding

She is not cruel though I don't think she would purposefully hurt me its just her and her needs are so paramount she simply can't think about me as a human with emotions , needs and feelings etc

Maybe you are right. The self-centeredness is so, so astounding that it very hard for me to comprehend. It's just always 24/7 all about her needs. When she is with him it's all about her acting in a way that pleases yet manipulates him. I am definitely sure that there is no thought about how I might be feeling. I am like some object or something. That is why these situations are so painful because for 5 years I thought that I was the most important person in her life.

The abrupt change is quite maddening.

[dobie]

Reforming: is making a list of everything negative in a sense splitting them black as well?

sbr: I am so sorry you are going through this. My heart is brokem too. At the root of it is loneliness not not missing "him"per se. How long ago did he leave you for the toddler?

Infared: that sounds like meanacing behavior. Can something be done? Why should you have to put up with this?

I just usually get up and get out most times this stuff happens I am alone. It's upsetting. I actually am in disbelief that this person that was so dear to me actually behaves in this way. I never contact her. I was never vindictive or hurtful when she ran off. She knew that she devastated me... .so I just don't comprehend the cruel element or any of it. It hurts like hell and makes no damn sense to me?

The part that really disturbs me is that when she is alone she seems to forget all of that and appears to think that everything is fine between us and that she can just walk up to me like nothing ever happened.

She never admitted to the cheating. There was never any honest conversation for closure, just lies and abuse. She is just so insane to think I should be social with her after the way she abandoned our home, painted me black to everyone, etc. It's really insane.

I feel the Same infrared though I have not seen my x for seven months I know if she did she would either be very defensive , run away or act like none of this is a big deal the lack of empathy and introspection is truly astounding

She is not cruel though I don't think she would purposefully hurt me its just her and her needs are so paramount she simply can't think about me as a human with emotions , needs and feelings etc

Maybe you are right. The self-centeredness is so, so astounding that it very hard for me to comprehend. It's just always 24/7 all about her needs. When she is with him it's all about her acting in a way that pleases yet manipulates him. I am definitely sure that there is no thought about how I might be feeling. I am like some object or something. That is why these situations are so painful because for 5 years I thought that I was the most important person in her life.

The abrupt change is quite maddening.

That's the sucker punch we are all reeling from how did we go from the most amazing , handsome perfect , sexy intelligent " etc etc to meaning less than gum on a shoe

Healthy people fall out of love but they usually still have affection , feeling , empathy for the person they leave baring abuse from the s/o or cheating the common thread in all of us here is the reverse .and when the leave they do so gently not like a self crmtered tornado like our xs

I noticed with mine as the years wore on her iPad held more value than me her needs her wants her frustrations her her her her all the time dobie was just a soother a prop a need that once not needed was discarded .

We were needed that's it and looking back it was always her first she took so much more than she gave she took everything in the end .

How can anyone be happy when they are like that your x is going to repeat the same stuff with the new guy mine will use a guy or idealise him but the result will be destruction she can't love she can't share she can't unless she is idealising and that never lasts for ever even in healthy r/s

She simply does not have the self love or emotional maturity to love in a deep and healthy way I'd feel sorry for her but I'm bitter maybe one day I will

[Reforming]

Hi all,

Good thread with lots of interesting thoughts

"Reforming: is making a list of everything negative in a sense splitting them black as well?

Beachbabe I think the purpose of making a is not to split them, it's to help us overcome our own idealisation of our exes and help us to reframe our relationship in healthier way. It's surprising how easy it is to cling to the good moments and slip into unhealthy nostalgia when we're feeling very hurt and abandoned. I don't think making a list to split them, though it's very natural and understandable to feel angry for a while.

It is about trying  to see our relationship and our exes behaviour in a more realistic and unemotional way and learning to accept that for most of us we weren't really getting our needs met.

"Where does the shame come from reforming ? I mean why ? Childhood abuse ? I know my x felt great shame for sleeping with her x bfs I could never understand that they were in r/s she was not a religious person so sex outside of marriage was not a sin .

My x told me a story once about a man her useless parents in trusted her to go swimming with when she was 7 she said he made her feel uncomfortable she denied he abused her but turns out later he was a convicted pedophile  barry"

There seems to be a high incidence of CSA in the background of BPD, though it's certainly not the only cause of toxic shame. I think there's combination of environmental and genetic factors that contribute to this

Randi Krieger writes

"Most researchers say that all-embracing shame is at the root of both borderline and narcissistic personality disorders. As such, it is probably the force behind all the DSM-IV traits for both disorders--although less a factor in the grandiose, invulnerable narcissist than vulnerable NPs, who have BPD-like emotions such as emptiness, inadequacy and fears of rejection and abandonment."

"Toxic shame, on the other hand, isn't about making a mistake. It's about feeling like you are a mistake: intrinsically bad based on the fact that you exist. If other people find out about your "badness,' they will surely leave you. Toxic shame can come from parents who criticized their children and made them feel unworthy of being loved; or perhaps the child didn't get affection, empathy and validation from their primary caretakers."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201201/shame-is-the-root-narcissistic-borderline-disorder

Infared I'm sorry you're going through this at the moment - it must be very difficult. Your replacement's behaviours sounds bizarre and incredibly childish. What does their behaviour tell you about their relationship?

Thanks for sharing everyone

Reforming

[Beach_Babe]

dobie: funny you mentioned the ipad. Mine was the same except with his MacBook Pro and iphone.

[dobie]

dobie: funny you mentioned the ipad. Mine was the same except with his MacBook Pro and iphone.

Lol she would scream at me if I was not "careful" with her stuff . she truly cared more about her belongings and money than me for ages

Reforming thanks for the link 

[Infared]

From reforming:

"Infared I'm sorry you're going through this at the moment - it must be very difficult. Your replacement's behaviours sounds bizarre and incredibly childish. What does their behaviour tell you about their relationship?"

Not sure... .perhaps that it is wildly co-dependent?... .Not sure. One thing I don't know is what she may be telling him about me and our relationship. I have no idea what nonsense she is feeding him to portray herself as the victim. I am sure if I knew I wild be sick    at the lies (her fantasy perhaps) that she is laying on him to manipulate and control.