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Author Topic: Terrified of replacement and nowhere to turn. Please tell me something good.  (Read 682 times)
redvelvetc

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« on: April 26, 2015, 10:39:46 PM »

Hi everyone,

I've been visiting but haven't posted in awhile. My undiagnosed NPD/BPD waif ex-boyfriend discarded me suddenly in December last year when things were at the very best they'd ever been since we first reconciled in the summer, and I haven't heard from him since. I don't expect to anymore as a) he's a truly passive-aggressive Eeyore type who is afraid of everything from switching jobs to house-hunting and feigns helplessness at every turn ("I don't know why I did it" followed by silence is usually the closest anyone is going to get) and b) is a master at playing the sad victim and using that to justify his total lack of accountability ("I'm like this because of my mother", "Why do you think I am in therapy?" And my personal favorite, "Nothing I can say or do can make this better so I should just let you go." The last time he cut the cord on me suddenly I made it clear for the first time since we started dating that I didn't think this was a quirk anymore, that this behavior was toxic and pervasive and that he needed to change. So I won't be surprised if I have been painted blacker than black now.

Even though this all sounds very strident, I have been a wreck. I started therapy because his habit of falling into silence made me I think I was legit going crazy or suffering from amnesia. The way he ended our relationship was befitting of how someone might skulk away from an embarrassing one-night stand that he was "forced into". (He also uses this phrase a lot. . ."X person or Y situation made me act this way or do this." When the therapist suggested that his sad sack act might not even be BPD, but a covert and extremely manipulative form of NDP, I feel like someone had slapped me in the face.

Before we started dating he had been infatuated with a co-worker that he emotionally cheated on, and eventually dumped his former girlfriend for. (According to him, ex was bossy and work made him so miserable he needed a distraction.) The red flag went up but he seemed genuinely sad and contrite about it -- admitted it was wrong and that's why he started therapy, the co-worker was never into him and he had just formed an elaborate fantasy in his mind blah blah. I have trust problems of my own and made it very clear at the start that I didn't care to be a stand-in for some unreciprocated crush and he always was adamant that it was not the case and even seemed upset and hurt that I would think "so badly" of him.

I guess you know where this is going. The co-worker has since left but they have a group of mutual friends from our last place of work and last night a photo of them popped up on social media. I have been struggling a lot with the possibility of him being disordered because he is so high-functioning, shy and quiet. Nobody at work knew him well, but because he never acted out and was always cordial and passive, even some of my friends have expressed skepticism about his having a personality disorder. Sometimes wonder if I'm just a horrible person who needed him to be mentally ill so I can feel better about myself. He was always able to effectively justify how and why he did his exes wrong (usually something along the lines of not having control, was too depressed/still an alcoholic then, was subconsciously not really into her. . .) and even though it's irrational, a part of me has been living in the sheer terror and anxiety that she was The One all along, and that OF COURSE he had to be confused and treat me horribly because it was a sign that our relationship was just a poor substitute for what he really wanted. I already know he's going to blame long-distance even though the reason why he ran was because I was going home to England to see my friends and family, and him. (This was something we'd been working towards and prior to it he had been planning to come visit me, so I don't know how the hell he's going to get his own stories straight with himself.)

I'll never truly know what happened between us because he has to come from him. And unless he happens to get a diagnosis from his therapist and broadcasts it publicly, there will always be a window of possibility that all this happened because of me. That's a sad fact. And sometimes I feel like this will just follow me for the rest of my life. I'm 27 and this has frankly made me feel ancient, and tired of living and scared of anything or anyone I might encounter in the future -- because I never saw this coming, so what is to stop the next horrible thing? I never in my life had reason to enroll in therapy or learn about personality disorders before any of this. I've read endless stories here on why replacements never work out but with him, I have come to expect the worst case scenario and even five months out I feel like I'm constantly steeling myself against further disappointment from him. There's a cruel and twisted logic in saying, "If I had enough feelings for her, I would have done what I needed to in order to make the relationship work". I feel like that's where he's heading with the replacement and that he's going to win this war that I never even asked to get into in the first place.
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Mutt
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2015, 11:19:40 PM »

she was The One all along, and that OF COURSE he had to be confused and treat me horribly because it was a sign that our relationship was just a poor substitute for what he really wanted.

Hi redvelvetc,

I'm sorry you had to go through this. You're a young woman and have a lot on your shoulders

You're second guessing and have your doubts and a diagnosis may appease the mind and confirm the behaviors and that he's mentally ill.

My exe is not diagnosed either and I also suspect she's clinically depressed. What I can look at without diagnosis are traits and negative or toxic behaviors directed at me and if those are acceptable behaviors or not.

I can also read guilt from FOG or emotional blackmail. I don't think it's reasonable to treat someone horribly because of his choices. What may be adding to the confusion is that he sounds like the high functioning type and the disorder is triggered by intimacy and people that are closest to him. It's not your fault.

It's not fair that you're in T. I'm sorry. It really helps to talk to a T and share here.

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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2015, 07:20:57 AM »

Redvelvet, I completely identify with your feelings.  I'm sure most here do.

One thing to consider is that, even if your ex was motivated to do "the work" for the co-worker (highly skeptical of that idea), what would it say about him that he uses people in this way?  Used you as a way station in that way?  Someone who is going to "do the work" to understand commitment and accountability doesn't display the complete opposite with another person who opened her heart and life to him.  Rather, this pattern would be trying to merge with someone new for as long as that person represents freedom from past attachments the failure of which is poorly understood (just as, at one point, you did).

The "why is she worth committing to" mental worm is very insidious I know.  But that has more to do with your own self-doubt and self-esteem mental tracks than the reality he is living (and believe me, I know how much these relationships exacerbate whatever pre-existing self-doubt might have been lurking deep within us).  There is no evidence from what you've related, however, that he's approaching the co-worker in any different way than he approached you.

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redvelvetc

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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 01:49:03 AM »

Thanks Mutt, thanks patient. I'm just so tired of all of this and can't seem to put the pieces together to begin to heal -- and it's been such a long time. I'm angry at myself for so many things. I'm incredibly angry because I can see how his behaviour was abusive and bullying but because he was always meek as a mouse I would always wonder if that comment was actually snarky or if I was being over-sensitive. There was once where he told me, out of the blue, that "I've decided it's okay if we like different styles of music. It doesn't matter if we like different things." Out of nowhere -- it sounds like a harmless and even a kind comment on paper but it got me uneasy and wondering, "Where did this come from? Was this ever a problem?" He made it sound like he thought we were actually incompatible but was generously deciding to look past it. (I'm not even going to talk about the fact that the two bands he had been referring to are from the same genre and for the most part sound extremely similar.)

I'm angry that I can see all of this now but haven't before. And I'm angry that this is supposed to be enough to make me wash my hands off the whole matter in disgust, but it doesn't. All my friends have gotten to the point where they're like, "We can't help you anymore, we have talked about this to no end -- ask your T." The more this continues the less they buy that he's disordered, because to them, I'm the one who's still a mess nearly half a year out and he's totally fine. One of them said, "I think the real problem is why you're so out of control. I myself out had split up with someone after 6 years and I swear I've never acted as crazy as you did etc." I don't want to get into a circular conversation where I start to feel bad about myself by having to convince someone that my ex was ill, because half the time I'm wondering if that isn't is true, because my sense of self and reality has been shot to hell. This was a short relationship by most standards (one year) so yes, the most frustrating thing is, I don't even blame them for seeing it this way. Nothing about it makes sense. I'd come out of much longer (6 and 3 years respectively) relationships without descending into any of this nonsense. I get so tense and hyper-adrenalized from the panic attacks and fear of flashbacks that started after the breakup to the point where I'm starting to worry if I'll develop some sort of heart murmur or neck problem.

My specific concerns about the replacement are --

1) I don't think she is a downgrade. She's smart and good-looking and according to ex-colleagues (who don't know about all of this), someone I probably would have gotten along well with because we have many common interests, like photography. (This absolutely makes my skin crawl to think about.) He had apparently fantasised about her for so long and he was so sad after she left that he put himself in therapy. My knowledge of this was all belated. So right now I'm really struggling to believe he is using her to get over me. If anything, she was the prototype that got away and I feel like tainted goods now because it seems I was the low-grade replacement but had no idea. (I was the new girl at work.)

2) He had never used long-distance as an excuse to not commit -- if anything, he was ALWAYS using long-distance to "prove" that he was serious about me and that this relationship meant a lot to him. "Because why would I put myself through the pain of long-distance if I don't want us to work out?" etc. I was always upfront about the distance and told -- begged, actually -- not to start anything, or restart anything unless he was sure. He knew about all my trust issues and I feel like he's done everything at this point to throw it in my face. I'm sure he's going to use the difficulties of long-distance to justify why he was so "confused" and why he behaved badly. The fact remains that she's going to be there, live and in person, and it's going to be a way of proving himself right. (See next point.)

3) I do believe he knows that something is wrong with him. However, what he thinks is wrong with him is that he always choses the "wrong" person -- i.e. people that he never feels enough for (in the case of his first ex) so ultimately the blame doesn't lie with him. I do think he will tell everybody who'd listen that he regrets and feels extremely sorry for what he did to me, but only because "it turns out I didn't feel enough for her". Paradoxically, I don't think that he likes the fact that all of his relationships have ended disastrously and I feel like he might have taken especial stock in ours because it was his first since therapy started. So I do feel like he would make the extra effort with her.

I know it doesn't make sense and I know I'm running myself into the ground. Believe me, I KNOW. But I no longer have any faith in him or this situation to believe that this will somehow work out fairly, or that I wouldn't end up feeling even worse than I do now. I feel like being hopeful about anything is so incredibly dangerous. I react to flashbacks like a frightened animal. I don't even recognise the person who is behaving this way and saying those words -- this isn't me.
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redvelvetc

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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 01:56:24 AM »

(Sorry, I feel like I have to take up more space and add a disclaimer apologising for the spate of spelling and grammatical errors in both my posts. I technically write for a living it really does make me cringe!)
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Mutt
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 01:08:44 PM »

There was once where he told me, out of the blue, that "I've decided it's okay if we like different styles of music. It doesn't matter if we like different things." Out of nowhere -- it sounds like a harmless and even a kind comment on paper but it got me uneasy and wondering, "Where did this come from? Was this ever a problem?" He made it sound like he thought we were actually incompatible but was generously deciding to look past it. (I'm not even going to talk about the fact that the two bands he had been referring to are from the same genre and for the most part sound extremely similar.)

I understand that you are doubting yourself and a r/s with a person that has traits of a mental illness can leave you profoundly confused and frustrated. It takes time to sort through the facts and make sense of what you went through.

Many can relate at the beginning of this relationship there is mirroring which is also something that is experienced in healthy relationships. That being said your ex lacks a stable sense of self and doesn't know whom he is and mirrors others; chameleon like. So he may of been mimicking your music tastes.

I'm angry that I can see all of this now but haven't before. And I'm angry that this is supposed to be enough to make me wash my hands off the whole matter in disgust, but it doesn't. All my friends have gotten to the point where they're like, "We can't help you anymore, we have talked about this to no end -- ask your T." The more this continues the less they buy that he's disordered, because to them, I'm the one who's still a mess nearly half a year out and he's totally fine. One of them said, "I think the real problem is why you're so out of control. I myself out had split up with someone after 6 years and I swear I've never acted as crazy as you did etc." I don't want to get into a circular conversation where I start to feel bad about myself by having to convince someone that my ex was ill, because half the time I'm wondering if that isn't is true, because my sense of self and reality has been shot to hell.



Don't be hard on yourself. I understand it can feel like family members and friends can get burnt out. I can relate. I felt like I couldn't turn to family and friends either and I was looking for answers because of how painful and confusing the experience was and they couldn't relate with me.

It's hard for people to empathize if they have not gone through the experience themselves. You experienced emotional trauma and it helps to talk to people that have gone through this. It helps to talk to a T and talk to an online support group too.

I had gone to some family members and friends and told them I think that my ex is mentally ill and what I found is that when I tried to explain something, I'm explaining it from two different point of views, her disordered view and my view as well and trying to articulate it to them. It's hard for people to relate to if they have not been the SO of a pwBPD and I felt like they thought that I was the crazy one. I was looking for someone to understand and help.

So I decided that it's not my responsibility or obligation to explain to other people what her compartment is, after all it was our relationship, our stuff. I don't justify or explain her behaviors to others. The behaviors and acting out are directed at loved ones and the disorder is triggered by intimacy and often the inappropriate and abusive displays are behind closed doors away from the public eye. To look or talk to my ex partner it's difficult to detect that she has mental illness because she can hold it together in public. A different story when we were home and it was like walking on eggshells and she would alter reality to match her out of place stories and often change and alter events and it left me confused.

This was a short relationship by most standards (one year) so yes, the most frustrating thing is, I don't even blame them for seeing it this way. Nothing about it makes sense. I'd come out of much longer (6 and 3 years respectively) relationships without descending into any of this nonsense. I get so tense and hyper-adrenalized from the panic attacks and fear of flashbacks that started after the breakup to the point where I'm starting to worry if I'll develop some sort of heart murmur or neck problem.

It may be short and it certainly was intense? I understand feeling hyper vigilant and panic attacks and it may be a good idea to talk to your MD. I think you need more time behind you.

I was the low-grade replacement but had no idea. (I was the new girl at work.)

I think it's an urban myth that a pwBPD will downgrade with their next partner. He lacks a stable sense of self; the world is also scary place for him and needs to emotionally merge with someone to cope with his negative feelings and it is survival for a pwBPD. He's likely mirroring her hobbies and tastes for now.

"Because why would I put myself through the pain of long-distance if I don't want us to work out?" etc. I

It's emotional blackmail redvelvetc and illicit and emotional response of guilt and obligation.

I do believe he knows that something is wrong with him. However, what he thinks is wrong with him is that he always choses the "wrong" person -- i.e. people that he never feels enough for (in the case of his first ex) so ultimately the blame doesn't lie with him.

I understand. My ex partner projected all of her dysfunctional behavior, feelings and the r/s failures on her ex partners and me.

If she chooses the wrong person, it begs to question who's reponsible for making those choices and the ability to learn from her past experiences and making better choices for herself?

but only because "it turns out I didn't feel enough for her".

It's invalidating you  

I react to flashbacks like a frightened animal. I don't even recognise the person who is behaving this way and saying those words -- this isn't me.

I'm sorry you're going through this

Are you communicating with him?
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 09:48:54 PM »

Hello redvelvetc,

I'm sorry that you're going though this. Many of us struggle with comparing ourselves to our replacements. It can be hard trying to understand how we may not have been enough for our pwBPD.

My Ex was long out of a r/s, but she compared a couple of the same hobbies I had with him.

Like yours, mine also knows something is wrong with her in addition to her clinically diagnosed depression. She calls it her "sickness." She diagnosed herself with an unnamed "attachment disorder." The sad thing is that it didn't change anything. Her core shame (common with pwBPD) was triggered. It's bad enough being hurt, but additional hurt may come from them running rather than turning into their pain to face themselves and perhaps get better.
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2015, 10:00:30 PM »

I know it doesn't make sense and I know I'm running myself into the ground. Believe me, I KNOW. But I no longer have any faith in him or this situation to believe that this will somehow work out fairly, or that I wouldn't end up feeling even worse than I do now. I feel like being hopeful about anything is so incredibly dangerous. I react to flashbacks like a frightened animal. I don't even recognise the person who is behaving this way and saying those words -- this isn't me.

Oh boy! You don't have any idea how much what you have posted resonates with me also... .Thank you for sharing! I wish I had some words of encouragement but I am struggling with the same feelings... .Hugs!
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 01:58:55 AM »

Excerpt
I've read endless stories here on why replacements never work out but with him, I have come to expect the worst case scenario and even five months out I feel like I'm constantly steeling myself against further disappointment from him. There's a cruel and twisted logic in saying, "If I had enough feelings for her, I would have done what I needed to in order to make the relationship work". I feel like that's where he's heading with the replacement and that he's going to win this war that I never even asked to get into in the first place.

redvelvetc: I wish I had something to say or offer that would help. I was with my BPDx almost 3 yrs, but we did multiple Recycles so I'm sure we were separated more months than we were together. At least during 2 of the B/U's I was replaced. Those relationships lasted all of 3-4 months before she came back telling me how I was different than other men, she now knows I'm the only one for her, etc, blah, blah. Anyway, I kept getting pulled back in. A huge part of our problem was her cheating. She always had X bf's she would stay in contact with, orbitors, FB Fans and who knows what else. It really got to the point where I was numb about thinking about who she was with. I didnt understand a lot of this because I thought my situation was unique. Then I found this place Thank God! I am now at about 50 days N/C and better everyday. After knowing all I do now as well as having much more self respect for myself I know I can Never go back. It simply was Not my fault. You may have made a few, but really it was likely being in denial and the dreadful FOG. Anyway, I've been collecting quotes here that have helped me a lot. It's not mine, but one that may help.

"Your BPD will eventually drop you; staying only delays the inevitable -- The BPD will drop you, abandon you, take off, perhaps quietly or perhaps while regretfully trying to destroy you during states of dysregulation.  This unfortunately is the story over and over again with a BPD.  This is what they do.  It could be a week from now, it could be 10 years from now.  There is no amount of love, money, rationality, or bond that will prevent this.  Few things are inevitable or certain in life, but the likelihood of the BPD coldly abandoning you when you least expect it -- and at the least convenient time for you -- is remarkably high, more so than perhaps in any other relationship you might have.  Ultimately, all you will be left with is an exhausted body and mind, a broken heart, and a lot of wasted time and money."     

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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 07:42:29 PM »



"Your BPD will eventually drop you; staying only delays the inevitable -- The BPD will drop you, abandon you, take off, perhaps quietly or perhaps while regretfully trying to destroy you during states of dysregulation.  This unfortunately is the story over and over again with a BPD.  This is what they do.  It could be a week from now, it could be 10 years from now.  There is no amount of love, money, rationality, or bond that will prevent this.  Few things are inevitable or certain in life, but the likelihood of the BPD coldly abandoning you when you least expect it -- and at the least convenient time for you -- is remarkably high, more so than perhaps in any other relationship you might have.  Ultimately, all you will be left with is an exhausted body and mind, a broken heart, and a lot of wasted time and money."     [/quote]
Dagwood, is this quote from you or from somewhere else? God I wish I had known this before I got involved with my ex. All the professional writing on BPD implies that pwBPDs are very dependent and hang on for dear life, forever. Maybe they are a lot different with their therapists than they are with their romantic partners. This site is the first place I found a description of what has happened to me.
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 07:57:23 PM »

Excerpt
Dagwood, is this quote from you or from somewhere else? God I wish I had known this before I got involved with my ex. All the professional writing on BPD implies that pwBPDs are very dependent and hang on for dear life, forever. Maybe they are a lot different with their therapists than they are with their romantic partners. This site is the first place I found a description of what has happened to me.

No Achaya, it's not my quote. Could'nt tell you which member put it out there but it smacked me across the head. What I've been doing is that from time to time if something I see on these boards has an impact on me I copy/paste on a created Document for later review when my own twisted logic wants to steer me in a direction that is likely not right. If it helped you I'm glad.
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2015, 12:51:39 AM »

Hi redvelvetc,

As far as your question "why am I still a mess a year and a half later?" ... .I have not posted here how short my relationship with a uBPD was because it is embarrassing that I was as affected as I was.  Even now.  A friend I haven't talked to in a few months called me a few weeks ago and asked me if I'd ever heard from uBPD ex (no, not for 2 1/2 months), ... .then that Friday evening I was on the subway on the way to an event and I smelled someone wearing the same cologne as he did... .oh, memories flooding back! 

I am back on track now, but I couldn't believe it.  Other than some bizarre funny dreams, or the odd thing I saw that reminded me of him, he was all but gone from my mind.  Then, back came all the feelings. Normally after a brief relationship ends I am a wreck for a few days, a week, but the grieving runs its course without any particular effort on my part, the clouds just clear, I realize that even if I was very disappointed, more often than not if i am really honest with myself I know it wasn't going to work out.  But this guy, what's so compelling?

The sex was really good, and I know that's part of what kept me compelled (and jealous even imagining him with a replacement... .not anymore though, doesn't even feel worth it, I've come farther than I thought I guess) but that can't be the whole story. 

The only distinguishing factor I can come up with for why we get so hooked is idealization/devaluation.  I don't know if you had an idealization phase at the beginning of your relationship (of course it's followed by devaluation, the two states are referred to respectively by members as "painted white/painted black"  There's something about it that's so compelling that when things suddenly go sour, you just want to do anything to get it back to the way it was.  That's the only explanation I can come up with for why other times when even the slightest hint of cruelty or abusive tendencies emerged with someone I was dating, I was out of there, and yet with uBPD I continued to try to prove myself to him. 

I have to assume that's where the codependency comes in.  I did not see myself in the classic codependent description, but I have been pondering lately the concept of "feeling responsible for others' feelings".  I can contrast it with someone relatively healthy who I think would not tolerate pwBPD devaluation for long, and probably wouldn't have even stuck around that long, something about idealization, so gushy so suddenly, would give them a feeling "something is just not right here".

(I had that feeling btw.  Wrote his behaviour off as "unusual but harmless, and kind of endearing"

I think being idealized then devalued brings up childhood trauma/imprinting around conditional love/not ok just the way you are. (or maybe for those who had to take care of a parent, that is what gets triggered and it feels "normal to do for those you love"

Anyways, even if now is the time to take a good honest look at yourself and why you got into, and stayed in, a relationship with such a person... .you can't assume that the fact that you feel like a mess and your ex seems to be doing ok, means that you were the one with the disorder.  Again, brief relationship here, but I didn't realize just how much my perception of myself (my self-worth, my ethics) had been warped by even incidental contact with this person, until he was gone.   I remember the moment I realized my "normal" perception of myself was back (I was in the kitchen pouring myself a glass of water from the filter pitcher).

Even if a pwBPD seems to move on very quickly after the breakup ("oh look there they are looking happy in their picture on FB with their new partner!"  at that point they are idealizing the replacement, and even if that idealization continues for months or years... .it is the nature of their disorder though that that is very likely to be followed by devaluation.

I had to sort of (lovingly) hit myself over the head a few times:

Remember how he acted during conflict with you (refusing to acknowledge hypocrisy and double standards, avoiding answering questions, accusing you of outlandish self-serving motives, etc.).  Is he going to act that way with the next woman he is in a relationship with?  Most likely.  Doesn't matter how empathic she is, or how pretty or sexy or anything else, because his behaviour comes from deeply rooted relational patterns from childhood neglect/abuse. pwBPD had to develop these patterns to hold themselves together in a dysfunctional environment in order to survive.  It is his template for "how to interact with another person".  Tragic, but true.

Is it possible for you to have a healthy, functional relationship with this person?  No. Even if he commits to therapy (he hadn't) it would be a brutal couple of years and even after that, no guarantees.

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