A phonecall in the night

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I work long days and go to bed early so I was in a deep sleep when the phone rang. I picked it up and it was her. "Hey". I could hear she was crying or in some state and I put the phone right down. A few seconds later and my heart took off like a turbine starting up. I kept telling myself it was the right thing to do and that nothing good could come from talking to her. I firmly believe that. A minute or two later the phone rings again. "Hello". Sh1t! Can she not just leave me be?

Me - OK, what do you want?

Her - Nothing.

Me - I find that hard to believe, there's something you want, what is it? Money?

Her - I never asked you for money, you know that.

Me - OK, but there is something you want, otherwise you'd not be calling me. So what is it?

Her - I'd like a reconciliation.

Me - That's out of the question. I will not grant you that. You don't deserve it and I don't either. I am doing alright now, can't you just leave me alone?

Her - I know what I did was bad and I want to say sorry. I want to apologise.

Me - I am not going to forgive you. Period!

Her - I have spent a lot of time working on myself, I'm in therapy and I'm seeing a psychologist. I'm working things through from my past. It's been very difficult but I'm getting somewhere. I've made a lot of progress and I know what I did to you was wrong and I am sorry.

Me - I know why you did what you did. I've learned a lot in the last year. I've read, I've talked to people with similar experiences to mine, I'm pretty clued up now. I know why. I understand it now and it explains things but it doesn't excuse anything.

Her - I am really sorry for what I did. I know it was wrong.

Me - Look, ever since just over a year ago when you laughed at me and told me you were now with the one you love and you didn't care how I felt I have not contacted you once. Not once! What does that tell you?

Her - That you don't want anything to do with me.

Me - Right! Not once have I made any attempt to contact you. You on the other hand keep messaging me on FB and you keep calling me. I blocked you on FB in the end. What does that tell you?

Her - I haven't contacted you that many times.

Me - Regardless, I have not contacted you since. Not once!

Her - I will leave you alone then. It's OK.

Me - Can you do one thing for me?

Her - What?

Me - Can you promise me you never contact me again?

Her - Yes.

Me - Good!

And then I put the phone down. Still not sure what to make of this. I wish she hadn't called. I wish I hadn't spoken to her. Last week was rough but I got through it. I always do and it gets easier or at least it's predictable enough by now to know that those episodes pass.

Should I have accepted her apology? A year ago this call would have mattered greatly. Now it's more of a nuisance. I don't wish her well. At the same time I shouldn't take pleasure in her suffering either but I do. I guess it's a way of clinging on and I don't like that. I certainly have no right to mess with her progress if she is serious about it and it's not just another lie to get me hooked for some game. I will never know for sure and I don't think I want to either. What she does is her business, not mine. But forgiving her is abhorrent to me. It goes against my personal beliefs so I can't do that. She has a string of wrecked lives in her trail, mine included, and why should I give her any forgiveness at all? I'm not sure I even have the right to do that. I know the mantra of forgiveness being for us and not them and that's fine for some but for me it's different. I know a lot of people here would give their right arm for what I just got and I told her to poke it.

When I logged on to FB I find a message from her sent to a band page I manage. It said something along the lines of, "Hi, Most of all I wish you are doing well. I know I wasn't easy to be with. I am sorry for everything I did.". I deleted it.

I have a very early morning with a long working day ahead but I know I won't sleep tonight.

[Mr Hollande]

I work long days and go to bed early so I was in a deep sleep when the phone rang. I picked it up and it was her. "Hey". I could hear she was crying or in some state and I put the phone right down. A few seconds later and my heart took off like a turbine starting up. I kept telling myself it was the right thing to do and that nothing good could come from talking to her. I firmly believe that. A minute or two later the phone rings again. "Hello". Sh1t! Can she not just leave me be?

Me - OK, what do you want?

Her - Nothing.

Me - I find that hard to believe, there's something you want, what is it? Money?

Her - I never asked you for money, you know that.

Me - OK, but there is something you want, otherwise you'd not be calling me. So what is it?

Her - I'd like a reconciliation.

Me - That's out of the question. I will not grant you that. You don't deserve it and I don't either. I am doing alright now, can't you just leave me alone?

Her - I know what I did was bad and I want to say sorry. I want to apologise.

Me - I am not going to forgive you. Period!

Her - I have spent a lot of time working on myself, I'm in therapy and I'm seeing a psychologist. I'm working things through from my past. It's been very difficult but I'm getting somewhere. I've made a lot of progress and I know what I did to you was wrong and I am sorry.

Me - I know why you did what you did. I've learned a lot in the last year. I've read, I've talked to people with similar experiences to mine, I'm pretty clued up now. I know why. I understand it now and it explains things but it doesn't excuse anything.

Her - I am really sorry for what I did. I know it was wrong.

Me - Look, ever since just over a year ago when you laughed at me and told me you were now with the one you love and you didn't care how I felt I have not contacted you once. Not once! What does that tell you?

Her - That you don't want anything to do with me.

Me - Right! Not once have I made any attempt to contact you. You on the other hand keep messaging me on FB and you keep calling me. I blocked you on FB in the end. What does that tell you?

Her - I haven't contacted you that many times.

Me - Regardless, I have not contacted you since. Not once!

Her - I will leave you alone then. It's OK.

Me - Can you do one thing for me?

Her - What?

Me - Can you promise me you never contact me again?

Her - Yes.

Me - Good!

And then I put the phone down. Still not sure what to make of this. I wish she hadn't called. I wish I hadn't spoken to her. Last week was rough but I got through it. I always do and it gets easier or at least it's predictable enough by now to know that those episodes pass.

Should I have accepted her apology? A year ago this call would have mattered greatly. Now it's more of a nuisance. I don't wish her well. At the same time I shouldn't take pleasure in her suffering either but I do. I guess it's a way of clinging on and I don't like that. I certainly have no right to mess with her progress if she is serious about it and it's not just another lie to get me hooked for some game. I will never know for sure and I don't think I want to either. What she does is her business, not mine. But forgiving her is abhorrent to me. It goes against my personal beliefs so I can't do that. She has a string of wrecked lives in her trail, mine included, and why should I give her any forgiveness at all? I'm not sure I even have the right to do that. I know the mantra of forgiveness being for us and not them and that's fine for some but for me it's different. I know a lot of people here would give their right arm for what I just got and I told her to poke it.

When I logged on to FB I find a message from her sent to a band page I manage. It said something along the lines of, "Hi, Most of all I wish you are doing well. I know I wasn't easy to be with. I am sorry for everything I did.". I deleted it.

I have a very early morning with a long working day ahead but I know I won't sleep tonight.

[Suzn]

I'm sorry about your upset and had a rough night Mr Holland.

Can you forgive yourself for not being ready to offer any forgiveness right now, or ever? You get to choose when or if.

She called you crying so you would save her. From what, you'll never know. It doesn't really matter if it was during the day or night. People doing "well" don't do that, unless there's an emergency and your a friend or relative.

I firmly believe that it is an act of love to leave someone to themselves when they need to be. That goes equally for us. It is a proven fact that a pwBPD is more successful with support when they enter therapy but it doesn't sound like that was what she was asking for.

Take good care of you right now.   

[Mr Hollande]

Thank you Suzn.

I am an angry child who had my favourite toy taken away last year. Never mind that it was cancerous and harmful to me, it was my favourite toy and no one, NO ONE, interferes with that! I hate knowing that that is what it is. It taps into everything I am and having it exposed has knocked me off orbit. Even if life wasn't always nice prior to that knowledge it was easier because I knew it. Sometimes I don't know who I am anymore or where I'm going. A year ago, even mid BU chaos, I was very clear about what I was doing and where I was going. I miss the conviction and clarity I had. I miss who I was.

During a heated private correspondence with a moderator here last year (my heat, not his) I had a few things pointed out for my consideration. I can't remember what they were (while I was angry and hard headed he was largely right) but that's not important anyway. What I remember from that exchange was me saying "If I did that, what would be left of me afterwards?". And that is the problem now. What was suggested probably sunk in and took hold. As I predicted back then, there's less left of me.

Can anyone relate?

[WhatJustHappened?]

It's hard isn't it? A true test. In my opinion, you did the right thing. Sometimes one comes to realize that there are consequences for poor behavior. No amount of crying or begging can change that.

IMO, many of these BPDs don't understand the true nature of consequences. They are too selfish to understand it and think they have the right to come back anytime and expect the person they dragged through the mud to take them back.

I also think it's perfectly natural to wish her ill. I think, we as a society, have gone way too far on forgiving those who have wronged us. There are some things that shouldn't be forgiven especially when they are repeated on a selfish basis.

For me, I knew there was no love when my exBPD tried to use my anxiety condition against me to get my attention. No one who loves someone would ever go to that great length to apply pain... .no one. It showed me that BPDs have no idea of the concept of compassion and empathy. Just selfish, vindictive, childish behavior. They can all rot in hell.

Mr. Hollande, you are a much better writer than I but I still hope that what I'm saying makes some sense.

[Mr Hollande]

It's hard isn't it? A true test. In my opinion, you did the right thing. Sometimes one comes to realize that there are consequences for poor behavior. No amount of crying or begging can change that.

IMO, many of these BPDs don't understand the true nature of consequences. They are too selfish to understand it and think they have the right to come back anytime and expect the person they dragged through the mud to take them back.

Yes it's hard but I realise it has gotten easier. With a couple of hours to settle down and getting a firmer grip on my emotions, which BTW happened unusually fast and didn't take days like it used to, I conclude that she is intruding on a recovery process where she has no right to be. What she just did was trespassing and it's unacceptable.

So she's done some work and drawn a few conclusions and now she wants to try and set things right. Be it for selfish or honourable reasons. So what? I'm just supposed to drop what I'm doing, forget where I am and how I got to here to give her what she needs? Give her absolution? Absolutely not! I was of no value to her a year ago and I doubt I have any now. She can find some other emotional toilet to use. I'm full up.

I also think it's perfectly natural to wish her ill. I think, we as a society, have gone way too far on forgiving those who have wronged us. There are some things that shouldn't be forgiven especially when they are repeated on a selfish basis.

For me, I knew there was no love when my exBPD tried to use my anxiety condition against me to get my attention. No one who loves someone would ever go to that great length to apply pain... .no one. It showed me that BPDs have no idea of the concept of compassion and empathy. Just selfish, vindictive, childish behavior. They can all rot in hell.

Mr. Hollande, you are a much better writer than I but I still hope that what I'm saying makes some sense.

While I don't actively wish her ill (anymore) I don't wish her well either. I don't want to see her get better and I don't want her to be happy. I don't think she deserves it. Should she achieve this then that's just another one of life's unfair twists which I would have to accept but till then I'll take comfort in knowing that the illness is taking its toll.

I absolutely agree with you that there are things that should never be forgiven. I also agree that our culture has forgotten where those limits are and why it's a point of no return to cross them. I think it puts us in a minority to think this way.

Thank you for your comments, WJH. They mean a lot to me.

[ShadowIntheNight]

 Should this happen to me mr Hollande, amazingly in my mind I would say the first three or four things you said when ur ex called. Verbatim! I am still so angry (tho maybe past the enraged stage, at least I don't rage everyday now) that I swear I think if I ever saw my ex physically I would throw a fist into her face (we are both women, so it's not like a guy throwing the punch), because I am just so angered at how I was mistreated by someone who acted, for the most part, like she knew better.

I don't hold my breath that she will because she is a gutless coward more than she's anything. Amazingly, she sure can dish out raging at people, but once it's turned on her, she is gutless. Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience. Like I say, I don't hold out much hope that it will happen for me, but if it does, having composure will be the hardest thing ever for me.

[Infared]

Mr. Holland... .I think that you handled yourself VERY well.

I think you should be proud of yourself.

I would (and have) acted similarly... .and for me it is not about hurting or punishing my exBpb... .it's about me protecting myself from a person who just ravages good people's lives.

It is not exactly enjoyable needing to protect myself from someone that I cared about and loved deeply.

" She has a string of wrecked lives in her trail, mine included, and why should I give her any forgiveness at all?"

This is the same person that my ex is. I have not been able to, or wanted to forgive my ex. What I have been able to do is stand back and assess who she REALLY is. Not who she told me, or portrayed herself to me. She is not a victim. She is the manipulative predator. That has been a painful process and this forum has helped tremendously with that. Seeing her as BPD and accepting that and making a decision to protect myself from that insanity, betrayal and abuse is as far as I have gotten. I am OK with that.

I think that you too, protected yourself in the moment, instinctually because of repeated harms done to you ... .and you should be at peace with that. Bravo.

[Mr Hollande]

Can you forgive yourself for not being ready to offer any forgiveness right now, or ever?

I've thought about this question over the last couple of days and it's a clear yes. If I had it would have given her some peace of mind for what she did and she doesn't deserve it. I could not have lived with that.

I firmly believe that it is an act of love to leave someone to themselves when they need to be.

I've never considered that but it's true. It reminds me that my current girlfriend has never gotten in my face when I don't have time due to being busy or on the rare occasion when I'm down and feel like shutting myself away for a while. She lets me get on with it and I love her all the more for that.

It is a proven fact that a pwBPD is more successful with support when they enter therapy but it doesn't sound like that was what she was asking for.

If she had asked me to be her support during therapy I wouldn't do it. I would have berated her for having the front to even consider me for it. One important thing I missed telling her was that her being in therapy, if it's actually true, is good but it has nothing to do with me and it doesn't change my stance in any way.

Sometimes one comes to realize that there are consequences for poor behavior. No amount of crying or begging can change that.

Being let off the hook time and time again by various co-dependants teaches them nothing. The reality is that once they've knocked Humpty Dumpty off his wall he will never be put back together again. That should be an important first step for anyone who is serious about getting better. The understanding that there are consequences for poor behaviour. If not for anything else than ones own conscience for having harmed someone who only loved and cared for them. Some of the people they harm never mend again.

[UserName69]

I know a lot of people here would give their right arm for what I just got and I told her to poke it.

When I logged on to FB I find a message from her sent to a band page I manage. It said something along the lines of, "Hi, Most of all I wish you are doing well. I know I wasn't easy to be with. I am sorry for everything I did.". I deleted it.

Do did the right thing! If you forgive her she thinks that she can hop back again to you! Never forget why she's your ex now. I understand your emotions, I feel exactly the same about my exBPD. I can't see what's wrong with that. You simply can't forgive an exBPD, their behavior is never going to change.

[dobie]

STRONG! Respect  hollande I could not do what you did . I'd probably take her back

Be proud of yourself and don't second guess a thing sometimes it's OK to be "selfish" by looking out for number one first .