Just trying to get educated, Knowledge is power.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So is this where I tell you a little about me and what I am going thru to gain Knowledge for myself to know what my ex/partner is going thru? I love her very much and I find it difficult at times to really help her understand how devoted I am because she retracts herself when any form of closeness/seriousness happens. I talk to her about it and she flights even harder. Currently not speaking (from what I have read its a whole isolation/punishment thing). Is it possible to actually penetrate the thick "stubborn" wall, to make her understand? I fear I will eventually give up and she will lose me; which after reading some of these articles about BPD Im not sure would phase her much? Can someone help me understand from a personal situational point of view?

[herMUSE]

So is this where I tell you a little about me and what I am going thru to gain Knowledge for myself to know what my ex/partner is going thru? I love her very much and I find it difficult at times to really help her understand how devoted I am because she retracts herself when any form of closeness/seriousness happens. I talk to her about it and she flights even harder. Currently not speaking (from what I have read its a whole isolation/punishment thing). Is it possible to actually penetrate the thick "stubborn" wall, to make her understand? I fear I will eventually give up and she will lose me; which after reading some of these articles about BPD Im not sure would phase her much? Can someone help me understand from a personal situational point of view?

[cosmonaut]

Hi herMUSE,



I'm sorry to hear about the struggle you are going through with your partner.  It sounds like you are very confused and hurt by what is occurring.  I think all of us understand that.  These are complex relationships, and everyone here knows how head spinning and painful they can sometimes be.

This is a great place to learn more about BPD.  Have you had a chance to look through the Lessons on the Staying board yet?  These are a great source of more information not only about BPD, but also about the tools that we need to utilize to give our relationship the best possible environment.  pwBPD have very special needs in a relationship, and they result in quite unique relationships.  We can't approach them as we would most other relationships.  If you are wanting to stay with your partner, now would be a great time to start to learn these tools which will help you to better communicate with and sooth your partner.  Staying means that we need to change too.

If you feel ready, let us know some more about your story.  Can you give us some more information about what is going on in your relationship?  Are you two still a couple?  How long has your relationship been?  What sort of behaviors lead you to suspect BPD?

You're in good company here.  All of us can appreciate how challenging these relationships can be, and we're all here to support you.  You're not alone.   

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey muse-

To address your specific issue, borderlines are triggered by intimacy, too close and they feel like they will lose themselves, and also triggered by fears of abandonment, that you will leave, so that sets up the push/pull behavior you may have experienced.  As cosmo says, first thing is to decide if you're going to stay with her or not as you learn about the disorder, and there's even an undecided board if you haven't chosen yet.  Lots of resources here, and things will become clearer for you.

[Mister Brightside]

borderlines are triggered by intimacy, too close and they feel like they will lose themselves

Can you explain what you mean by losing themselves? I am of the belief they don't have a self, so as an emotional vampire, they latch onto others. What do they have to lose? And does that relate to their engulfment fears, or is that a separate issue? Thank you.

[fromheeltoheal]

borderlines are triggered by intimacy, too close and they feel like they will lose themselves

Can you explain what you mean by losing themselves? I am of the belief they don't have a self, so as an emotional vampire, they latch onto others. What do they have to lose? And does that relate to their engulfment fears, or is that a separate issue? Thank you.

Vampire's a little harsh, but I'll give it a shot Brightside:

Before we are born and slightly thereafter we can't differentiate between ourselves and our mother, to us we're one person, which isn't a stretch since we are or just were inside her.  But after a while, as we explore ourselves, our bodies, our mother and the world, it becomes clear that there is a 'me' and a 'her', two separate entities, and sometimes mom's there, sometimes she's not, and then what?  Is she ever coming back?  So we feel abandoned and go through what's called 'abandonment depression', and normal and necessary part of detaching from our mother and becoming our own autonomous individual.  And that continues throughout the first few years of life: once a kid can walk, she will run away from mother, screw you I'm a big girl now, I'm off to see the world, but if she loses sight of her mother she'll freak out, feel abandoned, and run back.  The opposing forces are the desire to break free, so as to not 'lose herself', or lose her self, in her mother again, along with the fear of abandonment, like can I really live without mom?  It's a game at first, but eventually the kid gets frustrated with the conflict and starts acting out, which we call the 'terrible twos.'  All of that is part of the normal process of becoming a person.

A borderline never does that, for a variety of reasons.  They never weather the 'abandonment depression', can't deal, so they get stuck there in their development and end up banging up against it for a lifetime, which is why abandonment and the fear of it are such a focus, and why attachments are everything, a reestablishing of that bond they had with their mother where they were one person, and where the push/pull behavior of the opposing forces of abandonment and engulfment comes from.  And most importantly, a borderline does not have a fully formed 'self' of their own, hard to get your head around at first, but the one that is there is unstable, which most of us noticed.

Hope that helps?

[herMUSE]

Hi thanks for the welcome!

[herMUSE]

 

Haha, let's try this whole paragraph thing again! Her and I are actually currently separated. It's been about 3 months; the first time was almost 8 months.  I will say she hid this quite well and I actually did not suspect this at all. I ALWAYS SAY  I pay attention to her very well but in this case I feel I failed. It did not take much however just some semi looking around on social media that triggered my want to know what these acronyms meant. I was overwhelmed with emotion reading some of the things that were on the internet about BPD, I just started crying! It's been one of the hardest relationships I have ever been in because for me the unknown is scary. Not knowing when I will speak to her again and going days up to a week before I break without communication. Her well being is the most important thing to me, I know she's a big girl, I just want to know she's okay.

I don't feel that I am confused about staying or going. Although most of my friends think that I am crazy for still wanting to be around or in her life, I feel that the decision is mine and I know what I have in her. We are all a little damaged in some way, but that doesn't mean that we aren't worth it or great. I believe in her and I believe in us! I know that everyday is a fight for her, and everyday I fight for her too. Ultimately, I'm fighting for my happiness too, because I feel most alive with her. Reading some of these articles tho, won't lie... .they have got me a little discouraged trying to figure out what is real, and if it's a show.

Most recently it seems like there have been a lot of lows for her. She will call and want to talk (get close) then she's gone as fast as she came. We started this whole situation after the break up trying to mend the relationship because she felt like she couldn't be without me. Apparently that was short lived, because I'm alone at home - with my cat, my coffee and my laptop. I would totally with stand this storm if I knew she wanted me to! I just have sorta decided to educate myself on this because while she's out finding herself, I'm going to try to work the opposite way of the maze to meet her somewhere in the middle. that's what you do when you love someone. You don't just leave because the situation isn't ideal, you sharpen the broken crayons and continue with your masterpiece... .because broken crayons still color.

Here is where you give me feed back, constructive criticism, and tell me where I can improve.

[Sunfl0wer]

It sounds like you are trying to reconnect.  You may find it more helpful to post on the staying board.

You should post on staying if your intentions are to reconnect and improve the R/S. 

However, if you are trying to separate and detach and move on... .then this is the right place to post.

[cosmonaut]

What you are describing with her wanting to be close and then not responding to you is the classic push/pull cycle of the disorder.  It's roots lie in the very deep fears that drive the disorder and result in so many of the poor behaviors.  People with BPD (pwBPD) have tremendous difficulty in controlling and regulating their emotions.  Emotions for them are overwhelming and they are in a continuous struggle to cope with these constant emotional storms.  Of these emotions two are of particular importance: the fear of abandonment and the fear of engulfment.  pwBPD are convinced that they will always be abandoned by the people they love.  They often have tremendous problems with trusting people as a result and they are hyperviligent about the impending abandonment that they are certain is coming.  This is due to the profound feelings of brokenness and worthlessness that pwBPD experience as a result of failures in their childhood development.  This is something that is not in any way their fault.  Fromheeltoheal described this very well and the resulting lack of an autonomous "self" from this developmental failure.  pwBPD are so convinced that they will always be abandoned that they are quite capable of reading abandonment when it is not at all actually there.  You may have noticed this with your ex.  The other fear is the fear of engulfment which is also rooted in the failure of have formed an autonomous "self".  pwBPD seek out attachments to others in order to fuse with the other's self and thus try and become whole.  Due to this highly disordered fusing pwBPD can feel like they are losing themselves in the attachment - that they are being swallowed up.  This triggers terrifying annihilation fears and so they push us away.  What this all boils down to is that pwBPD engage in this push/pull dynamic as they oscillate between fears of engulfment and fears of abandonment.

I know, however, that this is very hard to deal with emotionally.  I went through the same with my ex.  Most of us here did.  So, we can appreciate how difficult this is.  It might help to realize that the reason this is happening is because pwBPD are triggered by emotional intimacy.  Without a significant degree of emotional intimacy the disorder would never be triggered.  It may be hard to accept, but your gf is running away because she is so close to you.  That doesn't make rational sense - it can only be understood without the mindset of the disorder.  It is very real for her, however, and it's important to remember that.  This is her reality and the only one she knows.  It's also important to realize that you are a trigger right now.  This is not your fault.  There is nothing that you did to cause this.  It's not because you aren't good enough.  It's not because of anything you did or didn't do.  This is just the disorder at work.  Being a trigger, however, means that it is very hard for your gf to have contact with you because it is stirring up overwhelming emotions.  She doesn't have the ability to self soothe, so she is dealing with this in the only ways she knows how: by utilizing an array of primitive coping mechanisms.  The are things like splitting, running, self-harm, impulsive behaviors, etc.   So, please keep in mind that this is why you are being pushed away and even ignored.  It's not you, it's the disorder.  The best thing to do right now is probably to give your gf the space she needs to try and allow her emotions to calm.  Pushing her right now is not likely to go well, because you are a trigger.  Just remember that's not your fault.  It's so important to remember that.

If you want to continue a relationship I would highly recommend that you take some time and read through the Lessons that I posted the link to earlier.  These will be such important tools to help your relationship.  As I said before, staying means that we have to do some changing too.  BPD relationships are very different relationships.  I can certainly understand if you want to stay and I'd fully support you in that.  Just as I'd support you if you want to leave.  It's a very personal decision and only you can decide what is best for you.  I would also recommend discussing your relationship on the Staying board.  The members there can help you and support you as you learn the ins and outs of BPD.  These are not easy relationships, even in the best of circumstances and it's important to have support and be armed with knowledge.   

Also, you mentioned being overwhelmed by what you have read about the disorder on the internet.  Please know that some of it is very bad information without any sort of clinical support.  I would recommend learning more about the disorder here and looking through the Recommended Books for further reading.  We strive to maintain a very balanced and clinically correct view of BPD here, and I think that's very helpful in our healing too.  Perspective is important.  So, please don't feel like some of the negative and horrific things you read online are scaring you.  Some of it is just not true.

[lm911]

Another amazing post from cosmo! It may be long, be every single word is in it place.

[herMUSE]

Yes,Cosmo! Thank you so much! Such a relief, and I started a thread in the staying board! I'm a newbie obviously and I didn't know where to actually begin! I have ordered 3 books, halfway through one of them already. Guess at first I was planning on leaving but, the more I felt my heart tugging at book selections and finding this board, I feel pretty confident with staying! Sorry again about this post being in the wrong place guys! Just the NEWBIE here messing up the rotation!

[Sunfl0wer]

Sorry again about this post being in the wrong place guys

I suggested staying, only because in leaving, you are likely to get advice that sounds like: "Run FAST!"

Another amazing post from cosmo! It may be long, be every single word is in it place.

^^^^Agreed! 

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes,Cosmo! Thank you so much! Such a relief, and I started a thread in the staying board! I'm a newbie obviously and I didn't know where to actually begin! I have ordered 3 books, halfway through one of them already. Guess at first I was planning on leaving but, the more I felt my heart tugging at book selections and finding this board, I feel pretty confident with staying! Sorry again about this post being in the wrong place guys! Just the NEWBIE here messing up the rotation!

No worries Muse, and good luck staying, I hope it works out.  The tone is very different over here on Leaving, and you may want to stop by now and then to see what folks are up to, as we do to Staying, to get another perspective.  Take care of you and yours!