A Night to Remember (or Forget)

[Depression = 72% of members]

Well, here we go.  I'd like everyone's take on a recent evening with my uBPDgf.  Brief narrative---2 yr relationship, we both have kids from previous relationships, she is mid 40s, I'm mid 50s.  Plenty of typical BPD behavior throughout---projection, gaslighting, push/pull, denial, splitting, makeup/breakup, etc.  Thankfully I found this site late last year as it has been a tremendous resource in identifying and grappling with the condition.  Forewarned is forearmed.

We both live in the Midwest and have summer homes in Michigan (her) and Wisconsin (myself).  We'd experienced quite a bit of "on again/off again" prior to the summer and agreed that it might be a good idea to spend some time apart over the next couple of months (more her idea but I was receptive as these relationships can be exhausting so a break was fine with me).  The texting "jealousy" campaign started immediately---"having so much fun!", "met an old (male) family friend and we've been boating alot", "many parties with dancing and twirling about".  I didn't bite and responded neutrally.  Since that didn't work, next was the dreaded "silent treatment" initiative.  No reponse to my inquiries as to how she was doing.  There happened to be a very damaging August storm in her area that had me quite worried about her and her kids---no response to my text about their well being.

We both return home prior to Labor Day. Additionally, we both also had stressors due to some family issues that had developed over the summer.  I was texting to her about my family situation and her reponse was ":)o you want to meet?".  I immediately froze.  Although she had been very supportive in another difficult situation from earlier this year I also recognized that I could be a huge trigger for her built up emotions and thereby a prime candidate for a verball assault.  Since it was already late at night I accepted knowing that I could leave early if things turned nasty.

It didn't take long.  In retrospect it was truly like I was with two distinctly different women in the time that we were together.  If I wasn't a participant this would have been a fascinating case study for anyone who analyzes/studys human behaivor.  The evening seemed to have two themes---"I had such a great summer without you" and  "I've forgotten about you so much that I think I'm over you".  Here's what went down:

---She's there first (had already had a glass or two of wine) and orders something for me.  Nice gesture--but she orders me something that she knows I don't drink.  Not a good start.

---Pleasantries for awhile.  A song comes on that we both like (she remembers that but somehow not the drink) and we laugh about something that we did last time we heard it.

---She launches into how this was "one of her best summers".  Immediately brings up the old family friend and how they boated, went to art fairs together, etc. No reaction from me.  That being unsuccessful she comments that "he was available and I wasn't".  No reply from me.

---Switches to pleasantries---"How was your mom's surgery, how are your brother and sister", etc.

---Unpleasantries continue. I had given her something prior to the summer and had a companion gift that I was planning to give her post summer.  Her comment---"Oh, I threw that out".  Needless to say I'm keeping the other.

---Back to pleasantries---"How is work?  You must have had a rough couple of weeks" (I work in financial services).

---Unpleasantries escalate---I ask her if she wants the drink that she had ordered for me (it is something that she drinks).  Reply--"No, but you should drink it as you're paying for tonight".

---Back to pleasantries again---"Isn't it great that our daughters are going to the football game together this weekend?"  Our daughters are good friends.

---Unpleasanties resume---Asks about my summer which was an odd request as she customarily is not interested in what I'm doing when we're not together.  When I remind her of that she responds--"Well, it doesn't bother me anymore as I'm kind of beyond us".

Time to plan my departure.  Remember that this has all taken place in the space of about 30-45 minutes.  As I close out the tab and turn to say goodbye she asks---"Could you give me a ride home?"  Ugh.

Out to the car.  Sidebar---I bought a new car this spring and we had ordered vanity plates with reference to us.  When the idea came up it was "My heart would burst if you did that!" followed by "I can't wait" when they were actually ordered.  They arrived when we were apart so she hadn't see them yet.  She looks at the plates then without expression looks at me and says "Why did you do that?".

Pleasantries again---"I really like the car, thanks for the ride, etc."  Gazes at me with loving eyes and reaches over to hold my hand.  Another ugh.

Almost at her house when she says "Well, it's nice to be back.  Perhaps I'll start dating soon".  She's fortunate that I stopped the car before letting her out.

Labor Day weekend was busy for both of us so no communication.  I texted her Tuesday "I know that you probably had too much to drink and were stressed but do you remember or were you aware of what you said to me last week?"  Reponse--"Probably not".  My reply "It seemed as though alot of your emotions were directed at me and I'm not sure if that was intentional or not".  Response---"I'm just day by day".

This was beyond doubt the strangest time together in our relationship.  I'd love to hear commentary.

[Learning Fast]

Well, here we go.  I'd like everyone's take on a recent evening with my uBPDgf.  Brief narrative---2 yr relationship, we both have kids from previous relationships, she is mid 40s, I'm mid 50s.  Plenty of typical BPD behavior throughout---projection, gaslighting, push/pull, denial, splitting, makeup/breakup, etc.  Thankfully I found this site late last year as it has been a tremendous resource in identifying and grappling with the condition.  Forewarned is forearmed.

We both live in the Midwest and have summer homes in Michigan (her) and Wisconsin (myself).  We'd experienced quite a bit of "on again/off again" prior to the summer and agreed that it might be a good idea to spend some time apart over the next couple of months (more her idea but I was receptive as these relationships can be exhausting so a break was fine with me).  The texting "jealousy" campaign started immediately---"having so much fun!", "met an old (male) family friend and we've been boating alot", "many parties with dancing and twirling about".  I didn't bite and responded neutrally.  Since that didn't work, next was the dreaded "silent treatment" initiative.  No reponse to my inquiries as to how she was doing.  There happened to be a very damaging August storm in her area that had me quite worried about her and her kids---no response to my text about their well being.

We both return home prior to Labor Day. Additionally, we both also had stressors due to some family issues that had developed over the summer.  I was texting to her about my family situation and her reponse was ":)o you want to meet?".  I immediately froze.  Although she had been very supportive in another difficult situation from earlier this year I also recognized that I could be a huge trigger for her built up emotions and thereby a prime candidate for a verball assault.  Since it was already late at night I accepted knowing that I could leave early if things turned nasty.

It didn't take long.  In retrospect it was truly like I was with two distinctly different women in the time that we were together.  If I wasn't a participant this would have been a fascinating case study for anyone who analyzes/studys human behaivor.  The evening seemed to have two themes---"I had such a great summer without you" and  "I've forgotten about you so much that I think I'm over you".  Here's what went down:

---She's there first (had already had a glass or two of wine) and orders something for me.  Nice gesture--but she orders me something that she knows I don't drink.  Not a good start.

---Pleasantries for awhile.  A song comes on that we both like (she remembers that but somehow not the drink) and we laugh about something that we did last time we heard it.

---She launches into how this was "one of her best summers".  Immediately brings up the old family friend and how they boated, went to art fairs together, etc. No reaction from me.  That being unsuccessful she comments that "he was available and I wasn't".  No reply from me.

---Switches to pleasantries---"How was your mom's surgery, how are your brother and sister", etc.

---Unpleasantries continue. I had given her something prior to the summer and had a companion gift that I was planning to give her post summer.  Her comment---"Oh, I threw that out".  Needless to say I'm keeping the other.

---Back to pleasantries---"How is work?  You must have had a rough couple of weeks" (I work in financial services).

---Unpleasantries escalate---I ask her if she wants the drink that she had ordered for me (it is something that she drinks).  Reply--"No, but you should drink it as you're paying for tonight".

---Back to pleasantries again---"Isn't it great that our daughters are going to the football game together this weekend?"  Our daughters are good friends.

---Unpleasanties resume---Asks about my summer which was an odd request as she customarily is not interested in what I'm doing when we're not together.  When I remind her of that she responds--"Well, it doesn't bother me anymore as I'm kind of beyond us".

Time to plan my departure.  Remember that this has all taken place in the space of about 30-45 minutes.  As I close out the tab and turn to say goodbye she asks---"Could you give me a ride home?"  Ugh.

Out to the car.  Sidebar---I bought a new car this spring and we had ordered vanity plates with reference to us.  When the idea came up it was "My heart would burst if you did that!" followed by "I can't wait" when they were actually ordered.  They arrived when we were apart so she hadn't see them yet.  She looks at the plates then without expression looks at me and says "Why did you do that?".

Pleasantries again---"I really like the car, thanks for the ride, etc."  Gazes at me with loving eyes and reaches over to hold my hand.  Another ugh.

Almost at her house when she says "Well, it's nice to be back.  Perhaps I'll start dating soon".  She's fortunate that I stopped the car before letting her out.

Labor Day weekend was busy for both of us so no communication.  I texted her Tuesday "I know that you probably had too much to drink and were stressed but do you remember or were you aware of what you said to me last week?"  Reponse--"Probably not".  My reply "It seemed as though alot of your emotions were directed at me and I'm not sure if that was intentional or not".  Response---"I'm just day by day".

This was beyond doubt the strangest time together in our relationship.  I'd love to hear commentary.

[Overbeck]

Lived it. Could have scribed your post myself, with a few words edited in and out.

My Borderline ex often "blacks out" the next day. Forgets everything. Is she lying? On this, I do not think so.

If we do not react to them, they are abandoned. That is one of their two main fears---rejection being the other.

You played that better than I did when she ensnares me into a conversation. The best move is not be within her sphere of influence. A hard lesson we both need to remember every day.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[Learning Fast]

I'd experienced this before, however, it was the magnitude of the behavior this time around that was truly astounding.  Was this her BPD speaking?  Absolutely.  As a non I wouldn't have the capability to create such a black/white dialogue without practicing numerous times beforehand.

[Learning Fast]

Additionally, she is not the "apologizing" or "sorry" type.  She has only once in roughly two years said "I'm sorry" verbally---and that was pretty much because she felt pressured by me to do so.  Otherwise she is an "I'm sorry" by text only type---if at all---very non-confrontational.

[Learning Fast]

Update---invited me to have a cocktail with her earlier today.  Accepted only so I could initiate a discussion about our last time together.  I was very neutral upon arrival and after some pleasantries said that we had to discuss our previous evening.  Gives me a blank expression and says "Well, my life has been upended over the past month".  I tell her that is not good enough and we need to discuss matters in more detail.  Kind of wavers and tries to move the conversation into more "friendly" territory.  I don't bite and repeat the need to discuss our last time together.  No response outside of "this really isn't the place to discuss this" (although it is).  Told her that it was time for me to leave and for her to get back in touch when she feels ready to discuss matters.  Stay tuned.

[enlighten me]

It seems to me to be push pull behaviour. Baiting you to get jealous. I cant say for certain but it seems to me she was wanting you to react and fight for her. Whether it was because she wanted you back and wanted you to show passion or whether it was because she wanted an ego boost and had no interest in continuing the relationship I don't know.

I know that I became very flat in my interactions with my exgf. I remember the first time we went out (twenty years previous to getting together again) we were in a nightclub and a friend of sorts was hitting on her. I stepped in and told him to back off. She was really pleased by this as rather than see it as me not trusting her to do the right thing I had fought for her. I didn't really get that until recently.

Im not a person who likes to be tested so my exgfs games fell flat this time around. I told her I wasn't going to play games and if you love someone and trust them then you shouldn't have to run around saving them from situations they put themselves in.

[Learning Fast]

EM,

Thanks for the reply.  Any one of those reasons are plausible, however, I'm leaning toward the behavior being driven by the need to elicit jealousy.  Coupled with the other incidents that evening it all seems to come back to a core BPD issue---emotional immaturity.

Even though my BPDgf is very high functioning I'm not expecting a lengthy and hearfelt apology.  I want any discussion to be as constructive as possible in establishing healthy boundaries especially since these transgressions were very egregious.

[enlighten me]

Hi Learning Fast

If you apply emotional immaturity to what happened and look at it as a child of 6 saying those things what would you think they were after? Why does a child try to make you jealous?

This is now how I look at things and it really help me.

[Learning Fast]

EM,

Indeed.  That type of observation has helped me keep things in perspective.  In retrospect her actions were similar to a child---the dramatic flair, the "I'm fine without you" and spitefulness.  The alcohol consumption simply amplified the behavior.

I've found in the past that this type of cycle with her will lead to ST for awhile.  Did you find this to be the same with you?

[Pretty Woman]

Wow. This is the exact reason why I can't imagine communicating with my ex again.

Thanks for posting!

[Invictus01]

Yeah, I had a similar type of a meeting. It was a rather bizarre experience. Just like anything else, I highly doubt she wanted to meet up because she wanted to know things about your life. Was probably just trying to gauge where she stands with you and whether she still got you and can rely on you if/when she needs an ego boost.

[enlighten me]

Hi Learning fast

Silent treatment or child like sulk? 

It felt like I was on constant radio silence. The only times it would end was for her to have another go at me. It probably wasn't that bad but did fee like it.

[Learning Fast]

PW, I, EM,

Thanks for your responses.  If I didn't know better I'd swear that there is a BPD "playbook" that is widely circulated among those with the disorder as so many of our experiences are eerily similar.

What's helped me immensely is to recognize that it is the disorder acting/speaking/behaving when she dysregulates and to expect the resulting behavior to be that of a child or adolescent (an additional immature behavior trait that I've noticed is she rarely if ever looks me straight in the eye when sensitive topics are discussed).

I---I believe that there was a significant control element that drove her behavior that evening as well.  When we met yesterday, she acted as though nothing had happened (no big surprise here) and figured that she would try to control the direction of conversation as well (small talk, idle chit chat, etc).  To say that she was stunned when I left would be an understatement.  Additionally---this was not a vindictive departure.  I told her that it was best for me to leave as I was upset and didn't want to say or do anything rash.  I truly don't think she realized that I would actually leave. 

[Pretty Woman]

Learning,

   I agree. It is so strange so many with this disorder follow the same template, almost verbatim in some situations.

I did not know what BPD was until my GF started behaving so strange I Googled some of the things she was doing and BPD came up... .that's how I found this forum and it ALL made sense.

And finally, I was not alone.

I remember our first argument. I was in my kitchen and she was upset over something political. I mean, irrationally upset. I don't remember what I said but she called me a "f'in ahole" and I told her to give me my key and get out of my house. I mean she was in my face yelling at me over something so insignificant that it scared me.

She started wailing like a baby, screaming, "You are not breaking up with me". She ran out the door with my key and drove away. A 40yo grown woman.

I stood on my porch saying outloud: "What the f" (the actual words). I remember thinking, ok she is nuts. I need to get out of this. My gut knew right away... .my head and heart took years to catch up.

Somehow I convinced her to come back and I got my key. She sobbed about her childhood and how no one understands her... .somehow I fell victim with sympathy. I never gave her a key again though and changed my locks just in case. We were together another 3 1/2 years.

Each boundary she busted I let her. I took her back. The next major break she actually physically assaulted me and then threatened a RO... .on me. I almost took my own life that time. It completely broke me.

I have let her back after many atrocious acts. This is the first time I have a replacement here. She has been dead silent and even though part of me thinks I won't hear from her... .why won't I?  I have not stood by boundaries in the past and she knows this.

I am working hard to create them (boundaries). Your story tells me re-connecting would only be hurtful and self-gratifying to the BPD. An opportunity to "twist the knife deeper".

My ex wanted to stay "bffs" while dumping me for someone else. She proceeded to say, "Nothing is going to change, we will still hang out as usual". When I got upset to as why she was leaving me for someone else then... .she replied, ":)on't you dare discount how far we've come together!"

What?

If we were so great why did she leave?

Words and Actions never match. I have heard NOTHING since that day. May 24th. Silence. Why? Because I was not a person to her... .just a need til she found something "better" someone she could manipulate easier.

We live a mile away from each other and I am dreading an attempt to reconnect. I declined friendship because there was no way I was going to be used as a pawn in her new "relationship" nor hurt further.

The silence hurts but I know it is passive-agressive and emotional abuse. It's like coming off of drugs. I can only hope each day without her brings me more peace.

[Pretty Woman]

And they do tend to "splice out" events and conversations to suit them. This is why they often return after a hostile event acting as if they don't remember how awful they were... .and with this disorder they probably don't realize how awful they were. Things are just not processed normally.

[Learning Fast]

PW,

The post rage period is always the most frustrating and puzzling.  Was it really the disorder speaking/acting or is there some element of awareness on their part that they are afraid to admit?  That evening was the worst dysregulation/dissociation episode that I've witnessed in the roughly two years that we've been together.   Because of the elevated emotional state she was in, you would think that at some level there would be some realization on their part the behavior was inappropriate. 

The magnitude of this boundary breach called for essentially an adult "time out" on both occasions.  I've never up and left before but this was way beyond tolerance.  I'm aware that expecting any type of meaningful discussion is probably futile but I really have little to lose.  Ironically, the words/actions worked in reverse this time---after telling me she was over me (words) she then asks me to meet her (action). 

[Learning Fast]

Another update.  After the last encounter that ended in a stalemate, we casually texted over the past several days.  Our daughters are good friends so I drove her daughter home Tuesday night.  Invited me in for a beer, light conversation, she had a challenging day, etc.  Stayed for a couple of hours (nothing intimate). Very interested in what I've been doing, especially travel plans.  Her text after I left:

"Thank you for coming by.  Turned a hard day around, immensely.  I could talk all night with you!".

I texted her about an event that I was going to attend for (not with) my ex-wife (we had a very amicable split and she is in the

development/fundraising business) as I wanted her to hear that from me versus finding out through our kids.  Her text:

"I'm not obtuse. I suspect that your are going with her, not for her.  And, I'm perfectly good for now.  As I mentioned before, I met someone over the summer of whom I'm very fond."

This less than 48 hours after the original text.  Unbelievable but once again very understandable, especially when you analyze the behavior as though it was coming from a child.  Any thoughts or similar experiences?