Newbie needing help

[DCUK]

Hello to everyone struggling with this, I feel for you all now knowing what a difficulty this can be. I hope I've posted my story in the right place... .let me know if not and I will delete and repost... .

Need some help understanding this one... .Really stuck and no idea what to do... .  not sure if this BPD

Was with the Ex for 4 years, she could be quite moody/snappy/selfish at times and I suspect maybe BPD.  However, we were very much in love and very compatible otherwise. I asked her to live with me, she was delighted, then her moods/snappyness got much worse and I became concerned about moving in.  I changed my mind on living with her and broke up with her after our first year because of this. She'd just finished a masters degree and she'd just moved her to her mums, 300 miles away. I ended it, with her mum there to help her through it. But she begged for me back, apologising for her behavior. I finally took her back and we agreed to see each other asap. Then she wouldn't see me for 3 months, saying she needed to concentrate on her dissertation. Eventually we met, she was cold the first time, but then warmed up quickly and we became a loving couple again.

8 happy(ish) months later she went overseas for 3 months and I said we should live with each other on her return. Things were going well and we were looking for houses to rent, then one evening via Skype I simply said I couldn't live right in the middle of a city. I'm a country bumpkin and was suggesting we live in the suburbs/outskirts and her job was a 20 min train ride to the center. She replied saying she wasn't going to catch an 'F#*@ing' train to work and wanted to be 5 mins from her job... and then she'd hardly talk to me for 2 whole weeks, conversation was almost impossible... .  I kept asking what was wrong? "Nothing" was the snappy answer... .so after two weeks I told her I would live in the city with her... .quickly she changed, became all chatty and nice. I couldn't believe it! However, we began to look at city renting. A week later I visited her overseas, whilst there she was really happy, then she asked me if I wanted kids... .I gave her the same answer as always... ."won't be sure until I'm in a happy settled relationship" (Only 6 months earlier she'd agreed this herself) On this occasion though she got very moody, stood up started slamming doors, getting angry! At this point I couldn't take any more, so I sat her down, explained my concerns and I told her that I felt we still weren't ready to live together... .she went ballistic, very angry emotional.

So she came back and lived on her own in the city about 20 miles from me. That was 2 years ago... .since then we've had many ups and downs, the most notable when I was on summer break from work and visiting her for 3 days whilst she was 100 miles away on a training course. It was the last two days of her course and in the evening she told me she was going out after work with colleagues for a couple hours the following day and that she would meet me after. I replied that I'd been there for 3 days just to see her, would be sat around the hotel all day whilst she was at work, so asked if I could come. She said no, I protested a bit! So she said she would call me from the pub to let me know if it was worth going? Which I thought was odd, as I'd just be on my own in the hotel room anyway, so can't be more boring than that.  We were off on our own holiday that next weekend anyway, so I thought about it as I fell asleep and decided I might as well go home in the morning as I had some work to do and could save money for our trip! So the next morning I told her and she went ballistic; very moody, slamming doors then escalated quickly and swept all her stuff off the table in anger then screamed hysterically at me to get out. I did try to calm her down, saying I would come and see her midweek to make up for going home a day early. But it had no effect. I literally legged it from the hotel room... .she'd never done anything physically aggressive before, it was always verbal only.   

She claimed she feared I was backing away from her again and that's why she reacted the way she did at the hotel. I called a 3 month break just so we could have some space and we didn't go on the holiday as I felt she was too volatile. 6 weeks later she got in touch, claiming she needed help with looking for a house to buy herself. We ended up back together.

Then things improved for quite a few months, we had an amazing holiday together. And she was looking to buy her own house in the city.

Then in Dec she asked me to spend xmas with her and her mum, I said I'd think about it as I might want to spend it with my father. She was unhappy about this, then told me I couldn't come anyway... .after xmas, she was very different, I didn't even get a card from her.  New years was strained, then on our 4 year anniversary I asked her if she'd be happy for me to live with her when she bought this house. She said she'd have to see how it went.

3 days later she put us into counselling. Prior to the first session, she asked me not to bring up any of the bad things she did.

But I had to bring them up, she'd been pretty uncaring at times over the 4 years... .2 years in a row not even a birthday card from her when I always made an effort for her. Once I'd had throat surgery (tonsillectomy at age 36). The night after the op, she was looking after me and woke me in the middle of the night to get her a t-shirt as she was cold. The one I got her wasn't clean and she snapped at me about it. Once I had a corneal ulcer and couldn't stand any light, she arrived and started turning on all the lights, unblocking the windows. She knew what I was suffering with and I told her to stop, she just complained that she couldn't see!  On a motorway journey a guy tried to run me off the road (no idea why), I avoided it and once he drove off she attacked me saying it was my fault, yet I had done absolutely nothing wrong, apart from sound the horn when he deliberately cut me up. I brought these and many other things up at the sessions as she complained I wouldn't commit to her... .I explained that along with her passive aggressive moods, these were the reasons why I wouldn't move in. But she wouldn't accept it at all.

We had 3 sessions at the counsellors, I did bring up everything and she just made excuse after excuse and never apologised for anything. She kept claiming I was wrong to back away and cancel plans and that all she wanted was me to live with her and that she would be much better when I did. In the last session we had a breakthrough... .things looked much better, I agreed that I would live with her, we left arm in arm... .very happy, had a meal... kissed, cuddled... .seven days later she called me over the phone and ended it! saying she couldn't take the stress any more...

I went and saw her, apologised for backing away so many times and said that I should have just supported her through all the bad times. She told me that had I said that 3 months earlier, she would have been really happy, but right now she didn't know what to think... .I left her alone for 2 months... then made contact, she wrote saying she felt she gave it her best but she would never be trying this relationship again... .I replied asking for answers and never got any, I also asked her never to tell me if she met someone else as I didn't want to know as it would hurt too much. Said goodbye and wished her luck for the future then I left her totally alone. 

A few months later I made contact, and tried to rekindle things, she told me she was seeing someone else! I was totally shocked, why tell me this, when I didn't want to know.

I can't understand what her motives are with anything over the last four years. She told me all the time she loved me more than anyone she'd ever been with. I was her longest relationship by a long stretch and she adored me, wanting to be with me as much as possible, her friends said they'd never seen her as devoted to anyone... .she hated where I lived but still came here all the time to see me. So it just doesn't add up... .

I am in bits... .why can't I move on? What on earth happened here... .was I a bad person?  Does this sound like BPD? I'm torn apart by knowing she is with someone else... and it seemed she got with someone else within 3 months... .was I that easy to get over... .  and why torture me with this knowledge... .

Sorry this is a long one, but stuck in a rut here... .and desperate to get out... .need anyone's help please, thought she was the one and miss her so, so much! I've been in a very long term relationship before and did not struggle to get over it like this.

[enlighten me]

Hi DCUK

Welcome to the family. Whether or not it is BPD I couldn't say. What is apparent is that a lot of her behaviour was self centred and uncaring.

Your story is a very familiar one. I recommend reading others stories here. It blew me away how similar so many were to mine and how much of the behaviour I could relate too. I also had an operation on my knee and my ex wife expected me to make her drinks and do stuff around the house even though I was meant to stay off of it for 48 hours. She didn't lift a finger to help and didn't even flinch when I was hobbling around the house.

At the moment you have a lot to deal with. Ive never known anything like this type of break up. It was probably the most stressful thing I have had to get through.

There are a lot of useful lessons here

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

Its a long process from detaching through understanding to recovery. It has probably been one of the most eye opening paths I have been down.

There is a lot of support here. There are many experienced members who are able to offer insights and there are also some professionals who are here to help.

I hope you are able to get the help that you are after.

EM

[DCUK]

Thanks EM... .

It's good to know others have experienced the same and I am really starting to understand why she acted this way in the relationship. It's just the ending I struggle with... . I think the biggest issue is guilt, these people seem so adamant that they've done very little wrong that we start to doubt ourselves and hence I feel like what I've lost is my own fault and I'm sure it's the same for others.  I just can't understand how someone can be so blind to their own actions and how this affects others. Your experience with your knee op seems so typical and familiar.  

I was recently reading an article arguing the point that BPD sufferers have loads of empathy, which is contrary to belief, our understanding and many of our experiences. But I will say my ex had loads of empathy as long as it didn't conflict with her own emotional well being. Her emotions and constant need for my attention always had to be in primary place. But that was so exhausting... .she was constantly looking for me to 'tell her something nice' 'tell her I loved her'   or just testing me, especially in the first year together. It was like her emotional void was never ending. I watched a video the other day where a sufferer described it as having no emotional memory, so if someone did something that showed they cared for you, the feeling this generated inside you could not be remembered past the time it occurred. And thus you go back to feeling empty swiftly and with this came dislike for the other half for not making them feel loved.

This is a fascinating insight into how it works for them. Maybe they're so overwhelmed with negative emotions they can't accept the guilt of the other things they've done? Although the woman in this video was very open and honest about how horrible she had been to her partners and had left them to free them from herself. I admired her for her honesty.  

I can't understand why my ex left though... .unless she honestly believes it's my fault... .but then that doesn't add up as, just before our first counselling session, she asked me to keep quiet about the bad things she had done; so she must know what she did. So why not talk about them and repair a relationship that means so much. I did say I knew how much it hurt her when I walked away from her, maintaining I had no choice at the time, but understanding how much it hurt her and apologising for it. I went back and saw our counsellor on my own after we split and he assured me I did apologise for backing away, but at no point did she, for anything.

At the counselling she wanted me to take 50% of the blame for our relationship failing because I backed away; claiming this caused her issues. I feel that blaming me as the cause for her issues, actually puts me at total fault for everything because, from her point of view, I caused her to act in this way. Giving her an excuse for how she is.  Hence I refused to take the blame and fully maintained it was her pushing me away with how she is. She seemed very angry about this, scoulding at me many times how I left her in the sh#@ by backing away.

She just could not see the cause and effect cycle... well she could, just reversed it and used it as a reason for her actions.


She never admitting to anything during the counselling, telling me she 'didn't get what she wanted from the sessions'  just as she ended our relationship.

And when I told her what she wanted to hear in an attempt to get her back (saying it's all my fault) she said she'd have been so happy to hear that a couple of months earlier.

Honestly, this is what leaves me so lost and confused... .it's contradictory and doesn't make sense at all.

[enlighten me]

Hi DCUK

I completely doubted myself. My exgf was so convincing that even though things were staring me in the face I was never sure that it was true. I started writing down shopping lists as I always seemed to forget something that she swore blind she had told me to get even though I couldn't remember it. What was more confusing was I always had a very good memory. I never needed to revise for exams as the information was already there. I thought I was losing my mind and the accusations that I must be getting Alzheimer's hurt as my Uncle had recently died from it and it scared me that she might be right.

I also agree that empathy isn't lacking in sufferers of BPD I just think that when you are close to them it is hard for them to show it. I don't know if it is guilt from their actions or something else.

The emotional memory might be object constancy. When somethings not around then the memory fades. It may just be to do with the way pwBPD see feelings equal facts. You can do 100 nice things and they are happy. Do one bad thing and they forget about the 100 good they just see the one bad one. Black and white thinking might also be the reason. There are no grey areas just black and white. Your either good or your bad. You either love them or hate them.

The reasons for leaving are a well debated topic here. I think part of it is we become a trigger to their guilt. Just by being around they have to face the things they have done. Part of the detachment process could be them painting us black as its easier for tem to put the blame on someone else than to accept it. I read once from a recovered pwBPD that they couldn't admit they were wrong as it would mean everything else was their fault and they wouldn't be able to cope with this realisation.

Theres a lot of ideas out there that make sense. Not all will apply in our individual cases as everyone is different including pwBPD.

Maybe those couple of months of not telling her it was your fault made her examine the relationship and the guilt/ shame is what ultimately led to the break up. She just didn't want t hurt you anymore.

Were here for you.

EM

[DCUK]

Thank you, that means a lot. It really helps knowing I'm not crazy or bad and silly for suffering to break away from this. I guess on the flip side the adoration and infatuation I got from her was very addictive and is very difficult to break away from, but probably wasn't healthy in the first place. I will say initially I kinda sensed it wasn't right; a bit too much early on from her, and I did explain that I need to take things slowly into a relationship. But she seemed to put everything into me... .I became her total focus. I feel guilty for not doing it back, which no doubt fueled the issues (that I wasn't aware of at the time).

She did say at the counselors that she has 'an idea in her head of how relationships should go, and if they don't go that way, she starts to push and do unkind things'. Which to me seemed mental, and selfish and described every past relationship she'd had... .except one... .she was with this guy and said he was absolutely lovely and they didn't really ever argue, or fight and he did so much for her. But she felt she never really loved him and ended up hurting him a lot when she left after about 18 months!  And I think that is the crux of it... .if they fight with us, it means we really mean something to them and they have become vulnerable to us as they entrusted feelings to us; which sadly, due to their condition, we can never do justice to.

Like I said to her once "I wish you'd love me just a little less and stop putting all your eggs in one basket... .namely me"  But she'd maintain, even at the bitter end when we broke up, that she had never felt love for anyone else like she did for me, all of her exes were not very nice people, or no chemistry (her closest friends confirming this to me many time through our struggles). I was her longest relationship by a long stretch. Probably because I tolerated it for too long and kept going back.

The black and white thing... .so true, never looked at it that way. And is so accurate... .didn't matter what I did right, one thing (even so small) wrong and she would be unhappy. It wasn't as if it was even wrong things I was doing, but if they perceive it as wrong, it's a different story; but it amazes how far their understanding of 'wrong' stretches. A couple of years ago I was sad on what would have been my grandfathers 101st Birthday, he was like my father and I was feeling down as he died a couple of years before. She kept pestering me for attention, wouldn't leave me alone and I said a few times I just needed a bit of space and explained why I was sad. Her response was to storm out of the room and slam the door in anger... .the next day she went through my phone and looked at all the messages (I had screen lock, but she saw me input it a day or two earlier)... .I was so shocked at this blatant disregard for someone else's sadness... .but made nothing of it. Mostly because she found a text message from a year earlier where I had moaned about her to my best mate... .so I then had to eat humble pie and beg forgiveness... .

As I write this, I do feel guilty that maybe I didn't acknowledge what she was feeling enough, but then again at the time I had no idea of BPD. But I did try to help her, get help for her etc. But she was always too arrogant to listen, doctors would be branded as loosers by trying to palm her off with pills which she refused to take. And a referral letter she was sent, she did nothing about, and they eventually removed her from this help group for depression anxiety as she didn't take up the offer of an appointment.

But as I write this I also feel relieved in many ways that I no longer have to deal with this. The letting go is so hard, the knowledge that she is with someone else is even harder... .but as I keep telling myself, 'all of this is far easier that a lifetime with her and the broken mess you would have ended up in, probably with children as well'

It hurts, but for anyone out there suffering the loss of a BPD partner or any kind of uncaring partner... .this heartbreak is without doubt the lesser of two evils... .

I actually both hope for and fear her return, I have stopped chasing (tried to rekindle twice since we broke up 5 months ago) and wonder if she will react to this lack of attention. It's not a ploy on my part as I have stopped contacting her so I can move on and heal. But I wonder if she will notice my absence, now I'm finally giving her the chance to miss me long term, will rebound guy suddenly become less attractive and her barriers (which were firmly in place when she ended it; I've never seen her look so cold) will drop and she will start to miss the person who she had loved the most in her life... . 

Whatever happens if she reaches out to me again, which I've heard happens a lot, I know I must be in a strong enough place to say no! I only want answers... .

[enlighten me]

Hi DCUK

I can understand feeling guilty for not acknowledging her feelings. I was the same but when I think about it I was clueless to how she was feeling. I thought I knew but as it turns out I couldn't have been further from the truth.

Theres lots of things about BPD here. Black and white thinking, Object constancy, feelings equal facts the list goes on. One thing that helped me to understand the behaviour was emotional immaturity. I particularly like this one as I have kids so can relate the behaviour to them. It is believed that pwBPD have an arrested emotional maturity. That of a child. If you think of how a child behaves in the playground and compare it to how your ex behaved you may seem some striking similarities.

The sad thing is that the good times as well as the bad are all her. She is both of these people. We miss the good times and want them back. Unfortunately you cant have one without the other. Sometimes we reminisce and forgot the bad. I had to keep reminding myself of the bad.

You say about it being addictive and I totally agree. I would have walked out on my exgf months before but I stayed just to get another hit. It could have been anything as little as a thank you and I was hooked again. I likened it to when I gave up smoking but 100 times worse. The craving and constant reminders. The talking yourself into it. Just one more wont hurt and I'll give up after that.

EM

[DCUK]

Thanks again EM

You know, that's very strange you should say that... child like... I thought the same about her many times.

How long have you been apart from your pwBPD? Have you moved on successfully?

Going back for one more hit, it won't hurt... .even though a big part of you is saying no... you still keep doing it! I can totally sympathise with that. I did it 5 times!  I ran from the warning signs very early on... .but then got drawn back in again and again... .

As sad as it seems though, my ex knew how to separate... she knew that if she didn't see me for a few days, her barriers would go up and she would become defensive. It was very noticeable... after just 7 days apart, she would greet me like an acquaintance, quick peck on the lips and that was it... .quite emotionally cool. I guess this is quite child like as well... .almost like forgetting or loosing trust in someone you haven't seen in a while. Would take at least an hour in my company for her to turn in to 'my girlfriend' again... .she would remain cold and distant, then slowly warm up to a tipping point... .it would always be marked by her creeping out her hand and touching me on the leg or arm... .within in five mins, we'd be hugging etc. It was really weird and she admitted it, saying her barriers would go up when I wasn't there as she had separation anxiety... .This was totally different to my previous ex, if we didn't see each other for a week, when we met we'd throw our arms around each other, so happy to see each other... .so I knew what normal was!

She employed this personality trait in herself when exiting, as she told me whilst at the counselors that she wouldn't see me outside of it, so she could grow distant & the barriers would go up so she could see what she really wanted. And when I didn't give her the absolution she was after and take the hit for her, she found it easier to walk away from the potential stress of being held accountable... .

It's crazy... .totally crazy... .but I guess we should never judge another person until we've lived their lives!

I hope you are happy and healed and that you now have a positive person in your life... .

I really appreciate all your kind words and time! Thank you so much... .  It's helping a lot... .more than anything recently, to hear the same from someone else that has been there and start to understand and learn more!

DCUK

[enlighten me]

Hi DCUK

The barrier thing and the coldness I know all too well. I used to work abroad and when I came home I would walk in and sometimes all I would get was her glancing up from her Ipad.

I think this is partly to do with object constancy. Out of sight out of mind so to speak.

As for me. My ex wife dumped me in 2011 after a recycle. Which was devastating. After nearly a year I was doing ok. An exgf got in touch with me. We got together and at first it was amazing we started a family together and bought a house. It all went horribly wrong. After being together for 2 1/2 years I left her. I started looking into her bizarre behaviour and came across BPD. After reading all I could find I realised that not only my exgf but also my ex wife was probably BPD. I didn't realise at first as they seemed completely different but then I read about the four types of pwBPD. My ex waif is the waif type where my exgf is the queen type.

Im pretty detached now. I do occasionally have set backs but its mostly to do with co parenting with a pwBPD.

EM

[DCUK]

Sorry for the delay, been busy with work... .

Whoa, you've been through it twice. You have my sympathy! Are you with someone more settled now? It certainly isn't easy to get over, I think these pwBPD put so much into being with us, they are infatuated as we become their world... and the sudden removal of it is like coming off the most powerful drug (I don't speak from experience )  but you have my sympathy!  

With the object constancy, I asked my ex about this once, why she seemed so cold if she hadn't seen me in a while... .she described it as having abandonment issues and it was so hard when i left her for a week that she just had to put the barriers up to protect herself and bury her feelings... .thus when I returned barriers were in place and she was icy! This was even more evident 2 weeks after we split... .she was incredibly icy cold... .just staring and completely empty... .

Hence it makes me wonder... .out of sight out of mind... .or just buried away!  Was she over me in a matter of weeks as I was out of sight, or has she just buried it away to protect herself?

I do wonder that as time passes and the fight/bad feelings in her diminish, she will start to realise and see it from another perspective! In the last email she sent me, many months ago she said "she felt she gave it her best shot"  

She cannot honestly think that with all she did! It's a very arrogant thing to say, especially as she knows she done things she not proud of... .and even asked me not to bring them up at the counseling; probably as she worried things wouldn't be seen from her perspective.

Of course, the fact your exGF got back in touch (which is a trait so I've heard), means that with BPD sufferers it's possbily the latter... .they just bury feelings away.  Was it hard to split with your ex gf?

My ex as so convinced it was all my fault, I truly believe she has this perspective that my backing away caused her issues: 'so I  was backing away from the issues I caused?' interesting spin...   but handy for her to chuck the ball of guilt on to me... .

Also I can't help but notice a pattern of how she seemed to become really difficult as we grew closer to moving in, I noticed this on one main occasion and hints of it a second time. The other two times I asked her to live with me, she blatantly said 'no' as she was tired of waiting for me to live with her and that she'd now buy her own house.

Push pull... .typical fear of intimacy and the hurt this would involve if it went wrong?  She did live with people in the past, but always moved in with them within a few weeks or months of knowing them. I guess before she had the chance to become fully attached and scared of it failing... .but it always ended in massive arguments. She even admitted that she has an idea of how things should go, and if it doesn't go to her ideas, then she start to push people away and do mean things.

It's just so sad... .it really is... .such a wonderful future wasted and thrown away... . 

twice in your case... .

From reading about the types, mine has elements of many, but mostly the waif, secondly the queen... could never be wrong... even at the counselors,  not a single apology, and everyone has things they need to apologise for... .  and she had plenty... .

[enlighten me]

Hi DCUK

Its good to keep busy.

Im having a break from dating. My last job meant I was away a lot so not a lot of opportunity there. I now have my eldest sons living with me so no real social life as a single dad. I cant complain though. Having a break has done me a world of good and made me realise I don't need someone else to complete me.

My exgf also said about putting her walls up when I was away. I agree that this is probably a large part of it. I do feel that object constancy has a place as well. I don't know how if theres any substance to what Im about to say but its the way it felt to me. It felt like my ex could remember things but not attach emotion to those memories unless they were extreme emotions. It seemed that sometimes it was like going through someone else box of photos. You could see what was going on but had no context for it. It was as if she could only remember the really bad or really good but anything in-between was blank. For example a nice day out wouldn't be remembered,

From what Ive seen in person and read it appears that they paint you black at first then over time you turn white again.

Yes it was hard splitting up with her. It took me months. She was my first real love over twenty years ago and I measured every woman after her against her. I think that's what hurt the most realising that she wasn't this amazing woman and other really great women didn't meet up to my false image that I had created.

Yes no apologies ever. I even heard her say to her son that " a real man will apologise even when he hasn't done anything wrong". She said that when she knew I was in earshot. Almost as if she was saying I know I do wrong but please don't make me say sorry.

Yes it is truly sad and such wasted potential. When you see the good that is there only to then see it twisted. Its hard to tell where there begin and the disorder ends.

EM