the BPD/Narc smirk

[English Sid]

After reviewing lots of information on BPD on the net, one of the things that hit home with me was when I watched something on how can you tell when a BPD / Narc are lying and the smirk on their faces.

I vividly remember this on two occasions with my ex when the look of satisfaction on her face was one of immense pleasure in having something over me, I didn't know at the time about BPD, but noticed this smirk to be something I had not seen before and to be honest it looked quite sinister.

Did anyone else experience this with their exes.

[Dutched]

Seen it on many occasions with exHFw too, however the eyes showed the real story.

As from my understanding (and experience) the more High Functioning, the more NPD traits are shown,  although the core of that behaviour is still BPD.

During that r/s I became aware of Cluster B, which helped me to look behind the curtains of her performance on stage…

I see a child:

That accomplished a task and wanted to be praised into heaven;

That won a discussion;

That punished a parent as the parent didn’t give in to demands (punishing the persecutor)

A while back I wrote about accidentally running into that ex who suddenly waved while sitting with her granddad tattooboy after several yrs. hiding. Why?

Ex had a back up, her soother, so felt confident enough to display herself as ‘the winner’ of her destruction.

Well, being confident myself, I approached ex and asked only 4 questions, ex tumbled down and felt a loser again, as ex did when she dumped her parents in an outburst at age 18 and refusing (deep, deep shame and tremendous burdens) contact for a 9 yrs.

An emotional child, with copied social skill, situational competent, hiding in an adult body.

[mywifecrazy]

ADuring that r/s I became aware of Cluster B, which helped me to look behind the curtains of her performance on stage…

B, I approached ex and asked only 4 questions, ex tumbled down and felt a loser again, as ex did when she dumped her parents in an outburst at age 18 and refusing (deep, deep shame and tremendous burdens) contact for a 9 yrs.

A Boy that hit home with me. Totally describes what I see in my uBPDxw when she is manipulating and lying. Unfortunately I didn't know she was performing until after our 20 yr relationship ended.  Now I know she is performing ALL THE TIME!

B I'm curious what the 4 questions were?

MWC... .

[jammo1989]

I asked this question many months ago, and a member called BlimBlam gave me this reply, hope it answers your question.

When you are in victim mode and she is in persecuter stance. The impulsive child in her is activated and seeks to solidify a sense of control this the grin. The grin signifies she "won" she may use it pull you and or gaslight. You attempted to dissacosiate you wounded child and use the detached protector as a front.

[Tomzxz]

O yes, the smug grin/smirk.  I remember it well.  BlimBlam describes the motives behind the grin better than I could and I feel he verified my suspicions as to its purpose.  My ex would use it when she was arguing with me and that made it hard to discern her motives but now I realize it was because she was "solidifying her sense of control". At the time, It seemed out of place in an argument and would throw me off balance.  I guess she thought she was being sarcastic but it reeked of smugness.  Come to think of it, her favorite picture of herself is about ten years old (the one she uses on line) and it clearly shows the very same smug look.  It just looks childish.

Frankly, she took terrible pictures in general, If it wasn't the smug look it was a forced smile, a toothy adolescent grin.  I just chalked it up to low self esteem but she had a very odd smile. I thought she had Asperger's or something.

On a similar note, There was a picture of her when she was young and with a group of friends.  Even in the beginning of the relationship I would study this picture closely whenever I walked by it.  There was just something off about the look on her face. It was a very deviant look.  Nothing at all like her friends in the photo.  I could never place my finger on it precisely but I just knew something wasn't right about it.  It all fits together now.

What a trip through memory lane. Thanks for bringing this one back to my attention English Sid.  There were so many red flags about her that I'm slowly starting to forget, It's good to be reminded of what an awful human being she is and how much better off I am without her.

[BorisAcusio]

I asked this question many months ago, and a member called BlimBlam gave me this reply, hope it answers your question.

When you are in victim mode and she is in persecuter stance. The impulsive child in her is activated and seeks to solidify a sense of control this the grin. The grin signifies she "won" she may use it pull you and or gaslight. You attempted to dissacosiate you wounded child and use the detached protector as a front.

Also:

Discussing thc intolerance of hateful behavior is the first step in faciltating its tolerance and in the patient’s eventually daring to acknowledge pleasure in the sadistic aspects of the persecutory internal object. Helping the patient become aware of his or her pleasure in aggressive affects, as they may emerge in behaviors toward the therapist, is an important step in the patient’s tolerance of it. By the same token, for the traumatized patient, beginning to see how he or she attributes to the therapist the characteristics of the abusing person is an important first step in the patient’s recognition that he or she carries the “aggressor” inside himself or herself along with the pereccuted victim.

[Caley]

I asked this question many months ago, and a member called BlimBlam gave me this reply, hope it answers your question.

When you are in victim mode and she is in persecuter stance. The impulsive child in her is activated and seeks to solidify a sense of control this the grin. The grin signifies she "won" she may use it pull you and or gaslight. You attempted to dissacosiate you wounded child and use the detached protector as a front.

Hello Jammo,

Are you aware that you haven't actually answered the question 'mywifecrazy' asked you?

[Herodias]

Yes, my wedding photo! Big Grinch style smirk! Later, during certain arguments... .like Tomzxz said... .

[peter5v10]

I read similar material.  I have to say it is pretty spot on.  When a new truth is revealed I can remember the lie it stemmed from and every time she had the same smirk on her face.

[Dutched]

ADuring that r/s I became aware of Cluster B, which helped me to look behind the curtains of her performance on stage…

B, I approached ex and asked only 4 questions, ex tumbled down and felt a loser again, as ex did when she dumped her parents in an outburst at age 18 and refusing (deep, deep shame and tremendous burdens) contact for a 9 yrs.

A Boy that hit home with me. Totally describes what I see in my uBPDxw when she is manipulating and lying. Unfortunately I didn't know she was performing until after our 20 yr relationship ended.  Now I know she is performing ALL THE TIME!

B I'm curious what the 4 questions were?

MWC... .

As you asked for it…  so fasten your seatbelts, really.  And sorry for the length

Ex never expected me to approach her, so that face went from ‘confident’ backed up by soother to ‘what the heck’…

# What caused your uncontrollable need, you know as YOUR uncontrollable outbursts, waving to me after a 4 yrs hiding?

=> no answer => crack in mask

# So, did you finally accepted treatment for something like that Borderline behaviour, you know THAT psychiatric treatment you refused back then in the interest of MY kids, MY family AND yourself for that by yrs. increasingly destructive behaviour? Of course you do now for your happiness with soother, you’re willing to do anything for YOUR future…

=> no answer => ex desperately looking for support from soother (trying to get eye contact, moving into another position  - so known for me -) who sat there as a mummy.   

# As you didn’t attend TWICE MY SONS graduation YOU as a ‘mother’ YOU deliberately smashed his soul AGAIN!

How do you carry that extra weight of those crosses with all the other ones you already carry for dumping your parents once and for dumping MY family in one of your famous uncontrollable outbursts? 

for because of the fact that you hurt MY son so intense by TWICE not attending his graduation? 

=> the hurt child trying more desperate to be rescued by her mummy soother…

=> so exw tried to deflect inner turmoil by saying: ‘I would like to introduce you to my friend’. Replied something like. Your typical Borderline behaviour to deflect doesn’t work with me, YOU KNOW THAT, don’t you? So it is futile trying to introduce me to ‘that soother’ of an old man with disgusting tattoos… sorry, NOW of course… you’re fond of tattoos…  the chameleon as Borderlines are.

# So , you left ‘temporarily for your rest’… is ‘temporarily’ in your Borderline mind the same as ‘divorce’?

=> no answer and meanwhile totally crumbled down.

Than your Borderline must be the reason you refused to shake my hand as goodbye after more than 3 decades, same as you never said goodbye to your parents when you dumped them as garbage in your typical destructive uncontrollable outburst when you were 18.

Well madam, enjoy your destructive victory for the 2nd time in your life over lunch with your soother, now with life long consequences for the kids and I hope your soother is willing to carry some of your crosses to sooth your mind.

Did I hurt her? Yes, as I addressed deep emotional core wounds

As exw short after her split wrote, THAT was her ‘PLAN’… ( translated, deflecting ALL responsibility) above kids, her love objects… having a family and family values, all those yrs. holy for her (because of that burdens towards her parents), destroyed as not important for kids as exw’s emotional survival prevailed for the 2nd time in her life, despite knowing that she needed treatment

So did exw sentenced my kids for breaking up their family for life, by refusing treatment out of fear, etc? YES.

Did I for many yrs. tried to better that r/s (seeing a T, studying, joining a support group etc) with all I got (outbursts minimised to once a yr). Yes.

Do I feel pity for her?  No

Do I find exw pathetic? Well, I know persons with Down Syndrome, they are really happy, hones and very sincere within ‘their world’ and with their thoughts. The only big difference is that people with Down Syndrome NEVER destroy that what they love the most, other people… contrary to BPD’s/cluster B…

Was it the high road, valley road or any other road I took …?  I don’t care, I don’t carry a burden, nor that I invest any time in ‘forgiveness’ as I for many, many yrs. already, out of love, commitment, vow and total responsibility for my kids defended boundaries for not accepted behaviour and setting/defining THE family values!

Exw carries the crosses for destroying TWICE already a family, leaving them devastated and in deep, very deep pain.

As exw promised me: ‘I shall destroy everything precious to you, incl. the r/s with the kids!’

Well only my son she couldn’t take away. 

But, using the BPD translator, exw wanted to say: I shall destroy everything precious to ME…  twice already

[Dutched]

I asked this question many months ago, and a member called BlimBlam gave me this reply, hope it answers your question.

When you are in victim mode and she is in persecuter stance. The impulsive child in her is activated and seeks to solidify a sense of control this the grin. The grin signifies she "won" she may use it pull you and or gaslight. You attempted to dissacosiate you wounded child and use the detached protector as a front.

Sorry, but I don’t agree with the quote of Blimbams explanation.

When the BPD is in persecutor stance or winning mode it is not necessarily that we automatically are forced into the victim mode and accepting that intolerant behaviour.

We only do accept it, as you aren't strong enough (under a circumstance) to defend your boundaries.

The crux of it is that ‘we’ think to speak to an emotional mature person for which feelings are facts…

Exhausting as at another moment we communicate with a SO with a normal IQ, who is socially, having a job, runs a household, etc.

As a pwBPD is emotional a child, we have to alter the words we choose… (in hindsight many of us members find out BPD after the break up!). 

That’s why SET / DEARMAN / JADE, etc. is not only a necessity in a r/s with a pwBPD but also in the upbringing of kids (as it is very handy under normal daily interaction with others). 

WE find it normal to communicate at a child’s level under many circumstances (use words and examples they understand…).

We are able to do it when our 4yr old child wants a sweetie just before dinner. We empathize with the child’s longing/need, explain why not and set the boundary, even when an outburst follows.

That outburst (to try to hurt you – as parent- anyway), is explained by BorisAcusio.

The smirk we see, or pleasure (winning, getting that sweetie anyway…) of being the persecutor that CAN leave the parent in victim mode.

If so, that victim mode who's fault is that?

However, as BorisAcusio mentions, the parent (we… ) and in his example the therapist, have to address (make it clear, so understandable AND recognisable for the kid (BPD) that the role of aggressor is not acceptable.

When you don’t recognise that, kids can become the well known annoyed and spoiled youngsters.