Memory

[Parents! Get help here!]

My teenage son seems to recall past events from years ago that negatively affected him.

He brings us stuff that happened to him that we don't recall or he has never shared with us. He also remembers specific conversations and events that we can't even remember.

He focuses on all negative and does not seem to want to talk about good things in his life.

[Lubyloo]

My teenage son seems to recall past events from years ago that negatively affected him.

He brings us stuff that happened to him that we don't recall or he has never shared with us. He also remembers specific conversations and events that we can't even remember.

He focuses on all negative and does not seem to want to talk about good things in his life.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Turkish]

Hello Lubyloo



It sounds confusing that your son recalls events that the rest of the family doesn't remember, maybe like dissociation. Are some of these events unrelated to the family, where it's unsure to seperate fact from possible fiction? How old is he, and is there a history of substance abuse? I hope to hear more and how best we can help!

Turkish

[lbjnltx]

Hi Lubyloo,

I'm glad you are here telling us about your son.  How old is he? 

My daughter, almost 19 now, was dx at age 12 with emerging BPD.  She has total recall on incidents and convo's that happened years ago that I only have a vague recollection of.  She also has attached intense negative emotions to some of those events.  Being benign to me doesn't mean she experienced them in a benign way.  Her extreme sensitivities and intense emotions cause her to experience things differently than I do.

I also notice this with my sister who is undiagnosed BPD.  Her recollection of our childhood is out of sinc with mine... .and we are only 11 months apart in age.  I have had conversations with my mother about some of my sister's emotional memories to compare my recollection to my sister's... .my mother and I are more in line with each other.

It sounds like your son might be looking for someone to validate his feelings about the past events and his current emotionality.  Have you tried that?  How did it go?

lbjnltx

[qcarolr]

Hi Lubyloo,

May I ask the age of your son? Has he just recently been sharing his story with you? The TOOLS at the right helped me so much in listening to my BPDDD (now 29, dx BPD at 23, lots of other issues earlier), and responding in a way that allowed her to keep talking -- well some of the time. She has not done well in therapy, and it helped me a lot to have the support of someone who understands BPD. What support do you have in your life?

Please let us know how things are going. We care and understand.

qcr

[mimi99]

This is a very interesting topic. I don't know if my daughter is just imagining the things she remembers or if she just remembers them differently because of the BPD. Probably a little of both. I do think she truly believes that everything she says happened, happened. There seems to be no convincing her otherwise. I am so grateful for this site, you guys help me to deal with all this in a more productive manner.

[olddante]

As someone who was diagnosed with BPD at an early age. I find a excellent memory

To be a clear characteristic of someone with BPD vs nonBPD. Memory in a context

seperate from intelligence or in my industry we refer to this idea  as "ships in the night".

Most people in my family have excellent memories or better. Those which don't I would suggest

dont have BPD . The idea that individuals with BPD use different parts of their brain than nonBPDs has been suggested in a number of BPD studies.

As a retired high tech engineer. It will say my uncanny memory and my ability to see the

Fine detail are characteristics  I attribute to  BPD. They were also key to me being

able to find a good job and live a good life. As much as anyone with BPD can.

As with your daughter's claim. I can remember things which such detail, clothes people

Were waring, conversation almost literally from decades ago. Unfortunately this is a double

Edge sword. This ability aided me in my work and career but is distruptive to  forming relationships.

Those in my family with BPD bring up specific events from their childhood or years ago to attack each other. This is most perplexing to the nonBPDs in the family but understood by the other BPDs.

I come to realize for myself BPD is a gentic condition. As a gentic condition there is a wide spectrum . Hopefully recent  european twin studies will identify a gentic marker.e.g. chromosome 9 has been suggested as containing genes related the BPD and Schizophrenia. Then we can at least seperate BPDs from others misdiagnosed with BPD. In addition,  understand BPD cant be cured only learned to live with.

I think this is a facinating subject and am interested in hearing what  others comment on BPD and memory.

[Dutched]

Lubyloo, I tried in those cases with exw to let her express these feelings about an incident.

When I really couldn’t recall the incident, I stayed firmly grounded that I have no memory of it and tried to agree to disagree (uggh).

When I, after questioning and  being told more details, could remember some of it, I admitted the fact, the fact only.

During this process (really it was for me again and again a step by step process to pull all out in a firm but gentle way) I tried to validate and praised exw’s memory…   

Oddly enough, bringing up her ‘excellent’ memory, exw began to questioning herself… as I was the one with an excellent memory.

Anyway, I tried to put Mt. St. Helen to sleep again with those steps.

As Marsha Linehans’ anology: “People with BPD are like people with third degree burns over 90% of their bodies. Lacking emotional skin, they feel agony at the slightest touch or movement.”

We know that pwBPD process emotional loaded events (incidents that, even lightly, trigger) intense and (often) processes those feelings into facts.

Reading stories on this Board, members keeps wondering what just happened that triggered and led to an outburst, as it was for the partner/parents/siblings just a normal daily hiccup

So ‘we’ might forget that normal hiccup as it wasn’t of any importance, contrary for the pwBPD. 

As experienced many yrs. with exw (HF), there was a need for emotional gratification (having fun, to do ‘something’, ‘something else’, etc.) to be stimulated by impressions. Despite those events (even simple village events) were emotional rewarding, afterwards only the atmosphere could be expressed.

Seeing photos, exw linked to her emotions (a cold day, ughly cloths, a person being negative, etc) hardly to (more detailed) facts.

Situational competence was shown in her job and other places but at home (part of the HF of the spectrum). In detail meetings, conversations, etc. were told at home while having dinner. Even to the extend that my S many times wondered and expressed finding it so odd that mother could tell such details, while not being able to recall what was said in other situations at which he was present. ‘You can’t understand that’, he got as deflected answer, so later dad tried to explain it to S

[Dutched]

As someone who was diagnosed with BPD at an early age. I find a excellent memory

To be a clear characteristic of someone with BPD vs nonBPD.

As with your daughter's claim. I can remember things which such detail, clothes people

Were waring, conversation almost literally from decades ago. Unfortunately this is a double

Edge sword. This ability aided me in my work and career but is distruptive to  forming relationships.

Those in my family with BPD bring up specific events from their childhood or years ago to attack each other. This is most perplexing to the nonBPDs in the family but understood by the other BPDs.

I come to realize for myself BPD is a gentic condition. As a gentic condition there is a wide spectrum . Hopefully recent  european twin studies will identify a gentic marker.e.g. chromosome 9 has been suggested as containing genes related the BPD and Schizophrenia. Then we can at least seperate BPDs from others misdiagnosed with BPD. In addition,  understand BPD cant be cured only learned to live with.

I think this is a facinating subject and am interested in hearing what  others comment on BPD and memory.

Bringing it up olddante, it is what you wrote what we (so called ‘non’) experience, The disruptiveness in relationships.

Being split black among it, for moments but also extending into many yrs.

As I experienced with exw, dumping her parents and family at age 18 in an uncontrollable emotional outburst, the angriness, hate and a 9 yrs. rancor for the ‘injustice’ done to her. Cut/delete, but acting as victim…

The same angriness, intense hate and rancor (even extended to my son, who choose to live with me, by not attending 2times his graduation) showed when exw, in a same uncontrollable emotional outburst blew my family up in a blink of an eye after 30+ yrs. Cut/delete, but acting as victim…

The same angriness, intense hate and rancor shown during her entire divorce process, again acting as victim... .even up to today, several yrs later... .

However, exw ‘had to do it, as it was your fault’ …

Not able to overcome created facts out of intense feelings (and deep shame!), rewriting history.

Therefore(? - rewriting history - ) being able to attach herself at midlife to ‘the best ever happened to me’ within 18 months with a retired tattooed bloke, who found a willing nurse with a purse, in order to suppress emotions, to sooth herself?

Alddante, is it not an attack, certainly not!

Your comment is well balanced, factual and gives insight (and for me again a confirmation) in how pwBPD experience feelings.  Really and sincere a thank you!

As for memory and as far I understand by reading how memory is created and recalled, excellent memories are not exclusive for pwBPD.

I know a person that suffers from Down Syndrome who, for example, knows exactly seating arrangements from yrs ago during several events at different places…. Even today, even when not the same people are present, one is directed to the ‘old place’ of that specific latest event and others are creatively directed to an empty chair (and memorised for future reference).

In general, lasting memories are created by after being ‘judged’ and ‘released’ by the amygdale.

Amygdala and the Hippothalamus are part of the old ‘reptile’ part of our brain, the Lymbic system.

That ‘reptile’ part regulates primary functions, among hunger, fear and danger, save feelings and happiness.

The Amygdala in pwBPD seems to process these primary functions more intense.

A skill learned is clean, abstract and that doesn’t affect emotions. In order to be stored permanently therefore

we need to rehearse/reading and rehearse/reading over and over again in order to get stored in our memory.

Contrary emotions, it has an immediate effect on our feelings, thus memory.

It takes a lot of effort learning to play a music instrument, maybe even more to play the notes as mend to be.

But that same pupil is in an instant able to whistle a part of a composition; emotions.

[olddante]

I'm a dispassionate engineer. I completely understand the hurt and pain

of BPD. Along with venting our past experiences and trying to understand

figure out what happened and why. We deserve a answer for the pain and

hurt they caused !

I dont see any value in limiting our view of BPD. More nurological research is required.

 

   * Latest BPD twin research (1400 pairs) show 60 percent misdiagnoses rate

     For BPD,

   * Nurological BPD research on children show 17 to 20 smaller Amygdala which

      has more phyical connection to the frontal lobe. Memory ?

These studies are online from major colleges and institutions,

Final thought, There are a lot of different types of BPD individuals, I believe it to be

                        genetic and therfore variable.  So some have high

                        BPD behavior and others mild. Its a WIDE spectrum condition.

A lovely BPD woman, I live with use to tell me "get over it" during my BPD

episode.  She's was BPD, e.g like attracts like, but her BPD level wasnt as high.

I saw no point in telling her my childhood traumas and her perspective is not uncommon.

[mimi99]

olddante Thanks for giving us some perspective from the BPD mind. My dd24 has said "You just don't know what it's like living in my head"

You state that you firmly believe that BPD is genetic, which I agree may be true for many. In looking at my family there is one member that seems to have many BPD traits as well. This is the one that my dd is the most like and one she butts heads with frequently. But then you refer to childhood traumas, which research says plays a part in forming a BPD mind. This idea is troubling to me, as I was not an abusive mother (despite what my dd tells everyone) and am unaware of any abuse on the part of other family members. In fact, it breaks my heart to think that she may have endured abuse that I somehow missed and therefore failed to protect her from.

I understand the value of further understanding BPD and researching it more, but don't really understand about the "misdiagnoses". Aren't BPD's diagnosed specifically by their pattern of behaviors? I had no idea what was wrong with my dd until I read an article about BPD and felt as if I had been slapped. It described her perfectly and I felt angry that all the therapists she had seen never mentioned this possibility to me. Now, doing more research and talking with folks on bpdfamily I find even more things that I didn't realize were her BPD, patterns that run through the forums that I would never have connected with the disorder. I am puzzled by the idea that many are misdiagnosed as BPD--if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc. Maybe you can shed some light on this for me. Thanks for your input.

[AVR1962]

My BPD daughter has done the same. I have listened to hear tell a whole table full of people, with me sitting right there, how I abused her. I tried to be understanding and patient while she was in tears with all these memories of things I have no recollection of. I was actually flabbergasted the first time this happened. I was hurt, I was confused. I told her then tat I had never meant to hurt her.

Years since she has gone to anyone that will listen and tells them all kinds of stories about what I did to her, what I said to her and has portrayed me as a heartless beast. She now tells her own children her stories. The stories get back to me and I find them very hurtful still. The things that she claims did not happen and for some these lies have made some negative impacts. I am one who advocates truth so I find this hard to deal with at times.

I have suggested we go to counseling together, I have apologized several times for hurting her, nothing helps and nothing changes. My daughter holds huge grudges against me and she wants the support and sympathy from those she complains to.

I wish I had an answer for you. I hope that your situation is not as severe as my own and I hope that your son will be accepting of you and compassionate that you did not mean him harm.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[olddante]

Hello,

Yes, good point about my reference to child trauma. 

Here's were genetics get complicated like it wasnt  already enough.

Lets say my grandfather was  mild/non BPD and marries a dynamic BPD

women. Its the new century and dad raises the two children. This father is

caring, even tempered, supportive. The wife lives in her room self medicating

after work. The two girls have one child each. They both marry BPD men.

These second generation BPD children get abandoned,  abused, belittled

by these BPD/NPD women. They had received love, care, and sympathy

from their father but they dont pay it forward. These children take the back

seat to their its all about me parent.

My trauma was actually being  subjected to rage reduction therapy by a indifferent

parent who wanted me fixed. It was the 1960s. Psychology thought it had figured out BPD.

Hence rage reduction child therpy which has unfortunately caused too many child deaths, other damage, and countless legal cases. I like to be first and was one of the early lab rats.

I hope I answered your question. It was those summers with my grandfather which

taught me things my parent never showed.