Radical acceptance, for me

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi everyone again  

Second post of the day. Really motivated to choose a path. Last night I decided to look at my own archives and I was saddened by what I found. I learned that we have been having these issues for almost 2 years, that when I asked him to delay his move almost 2 years ago to take care of his personal affairs he threatened suicide and sent me a pic of the pills he was going to take. I called the police and he ended up staying in a psychiatric hospital for 10 days. I had forgotten that part of  what triggered his suicide attempt.

Apparently I have been maintaining this boundary with him of a long distance relationship while he gets his personal affairs in order for a lot longer then I realized. That was a turning point in the r/s and I chose to stay just like I made the choice to stay again when I found out there was no divorce filed in the system, however this time I am making sure of my choice by working through all of the lessons on making a decision. Last time when I made a choice to stay with him it was because I loved him. This time it has to be more then just loving him that keeps me in the relationship. I need to be sure that staying in this relationship is the best choice for me.

I'm feeling a wide range of emotion tonight, feeling irritated  that I  have to talk to my fiancé about a divorce lawyer, he should've taken care of this already. Feeling sorrow for him because it seems like he really underestimated his soon to be ex wife's complacency and how difficult it would be to divorce her (a second time). Feeling exhausted from being in this situation in the first place, I just want to have a healthy, functional  relationship. Feeling grateful for all that my partner has done for me and my daughter which makes me want to keep working on the r/s. Feeling hopeful that maybe, finally he will actually make some progress on the divorce. Feeling frustrated  that I have so much influence over whether we have conflict or not. Just recently I learned just how much the way I communicate with my partner stirs the pot. (I think it was lonely child that said despite the fact that people with BPD or BPD traits have very strong personalities they still need guidance.)

I know I want to get out of my story, as people in one program of recovery put it, with my partner. This is the first time I've actually participated in a conversation with him about going to see a lawyer, where I know the name and location of the person. This is where the radical acceptance comes in. It took the time it took for me to look him up in the court system and find out there was no divorce filed in the system. I don't know how I would have handled that information a year or two ago.

I am very thankful this website is here in the organized fashion it is in. That is a very helpful to a person like myself. 1.9 years ago apparently I wasn't ready to starting working through the lessons systemically.  I want to extend a big thank you to all those who created them. They are indeed life changing. I belong to 3 different recovery programs and none of them deal with the hardships that come with being in a relationship with a pwBPD or BPD traits. This is the only place I can come for this kind of help.

[unicorn2014]

Hi everyone again  

Second post of the day. Really motivated to choose a path. Last night I decided to look at my own archives and I was saddened by what I found. I learned that we have been having these issues for almost 2 years, that when I asked him to delay his move almost 2 years ago to take care of his personal affairs he threatened suicide and sent me a pic of the pills he was going to take. I called the police and he ended up staying in a psychiatric hospital for 10 days. I had forgotten that part of  what triggered his suicide attempt.

Apparently I have been maintaining this boundary with him of a long distance relationship while he gets his personal affairs in order for a lot longer then I realized. That was a turning point in the r/s and I chose to stay just like I made the choice to stay again when I found out there was no divorce filed in the system, however this time I am making sure of my choice by working through all of the lessons on making a decision. Last time when I made a choice to stay with him it was because I loved him. This time it has to be more then just loving him that keeps me in the relationship. I need to be sure that staying in this relationship is the best choice for me.

I'm feeling a wide range of emotion tonight, feeling irritated  that I  have to talk to my fiancé about a divorce lawyer, he should've taken care of this already. Feeling sorrow for him because it seems like he really underestimated his soon to be ex wife's complacency and how difficult it would be to divorce her (a second time). Feeling exhausted from being in this situation in the first place, I just want to have a healthy, functional  relationship. Feeling grateful for all that my partner has done for me and my daughter which makes me want to keep working on the r/s. Feeling hopeful that maybe, finally he will actually make some progress on the divorce. Feeling frustrated  that I have so much influence over whether we have conflict or not. Just recently I learned just how much the way I communicate with my partner stirs the pot. (I think it was lonely child that said despite the fact that people with BPD or BPD traits have very strong personalities they still need guidance.)

I know I want to get out of my story, as people in one program of recovery put it, with my partner. This is the first time I've actually participated in a conversation with him about going to see a lawyer, where I know the name and location of the person. This is where the radical acceptance comes in. It took the time it took for me to look him up in the court system and find out there was no divorce filed in the system. I don't know how I would have handled that information a year or two ago.

I am very thankful this website is here in the organized fashion it is in. That is a very helpful to a person like myself. 1.9 years ago apparently I wasn't ready to starting working through the lessons systemically.  I want to extend a big thank you to all those who created them. They are indeed life changing. I belong to 3 different recovery programs and none of them deal with the hardships that come with being in a relationship with a pwBPD or BPD traits. This is the only place I can come for this kind of help.

[Mutt]

Hi unicorn2014,

I can understand feeling aggravated and annoyed and things are complicated. I can see how you would want to put this behind you, you sound tired of all of this and you want to have a healthier and more functional r/s.

The first part of radical acceptance is accepting a serious issue in our lives and that we stop fighting reality, it can lessen our pain, you've had these issues for two years, the time that it took for you to look him up in the system and to find out that there was no divorce filed.

My advice is, I think that's a good place to start  

[unicorn2014]

Mutt, thank you for reading and replying. I was surprised to see that no one else had replied as I thought this was a rather positive post, trying to keep my issues focused on the lessons. I will think about what you said and I will read the lesson on acceptance as the last stage of grieving and then post about that. Will you read and reply to that one as well when its posted?

[Mutt]

It is a positive post  Absolutely I'll read and reply.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you Mutt, I am trying to be positive and constructive here. I appreciate the support.

[myself]

It's also seeing that not only can he do more/do it differently/better, so can you. As much as we're already doing, we often find we can do more/differently/better. Not to take on extra weight but to lessen it. You're the one you can do something about. And you're working on it.

[OnceConfused]

I am still a bit confused as to "The context of radical acceptance " you used in this post. What do you accept now? and why that is RADICAL?

My concern is that the man withholding the truth from you for the past 3 years about his divorce filing or lack thereof. That is not a small issue. The divorce process even if he files now, will take a long time to conclude.

[unicorn2014]

It's also seeing that not only can he do more/do it differently/better, so can you. As much as we're already doing, we often find we can do more/differently/better. Not to take on extra weight but to lessen it. You're the one you can do something about. And you're working on it.

Thank you myself, I will take that to heart. Next I will be reading the lesson on acceptance as the final stage of grieving and writing about that. I appreciate you reading and responding to my post in a positive manner.

[unicorn2014]

I am still a bit confused as to "The context of radical acceptance " you used in this post. What do you accept now? and why that is RADICAL?

My concern is that the man withholding the truth from you for the past 3 years about his divorce filing or lack thereof. That is not a small issue. The divorce process even if he files now, will take a long time to conclude.

Once confused, I appreciate your concern. He said he filed, his accounts are in escrow which wouldn't have happened if some legal action hadn't been taken. The problem is there is no record of the filing in the system. I'm not happy about but there's nothing I can do about it. Yes, the divorce could take a long time. His soon to be ex wife doesn't want to let him go. When she had a chance to intervene and stop it all she didn't but now that he wants to be with me she's doing everything she can to prevent that from happening. There's nothing I can do about that either.

The part I was talking about radically accepting which perhaps was not clear was that it took me 1.9 years to get to the point where I was willing to work through the lessons systematically. My post was about realizing that I first posted here in January of last year and it took me until September of this year to really start taking advantage of the help available on this board. The other piece of radical acceptance is that it took me from June until September to be willing to look my partner up in the legal system. That is the radical acceptance I'm talking about, that I didn't take action sooner. Does that make sense? This post isn't about my partner, its about me, which in the end is what radical acceptance is about anyways. I know, I've taken 3 DBT courses and I'm preparing to take a 4th.

[flourdust]

I am still a bit confused as to "The context of radical acceptance " you used in this post. What do you accept now? and why that is RADICAL?

My concern is that the man withholding the truth from you for the past 3 years about his divorce filing or lack thereof. That is not a small issue. The divorce process even if he files now, will take a long time to conclude.

Once confused, I appreciate your concern. He said he filed, his accounts are in escrow which wouldn't have happened if some legal action hadn't been taken. The problem is there is no record of the filing in the system. I'm not happy about but there's nothing I can do about it. Yes, the divorce could take a long time. His soon to be ex wife doesn't want to let him go. When she had a chance to intervene and stop it all she didn't but now that he wants to be with me she's doing everything she can to prevent that from happening. There's nothing I can do about that either.

The part I was talking about radically accepting which perhaps was not clear was that it took me 1.9 years to get to the point where I was willing to work through the lessons systematically. My post was about realizing that I first posted here in January of last year and it took me until September of this year to really start taking advantage of the help available on this board. The other piece of radical acceptance is that it took me from June until September to be willing to look my partner up in the legal system. That is the radical acceptance I'm talking about, that I didn't take action sooner. Does that make sense? This post isn't about my partner, its about me, which in the end is what radical acceptance is about anyways. I know, I've taken 3 DBT courses and I'm preparing to take a 4th.

I'm curious about this, too. So, you're saying that you accept that you didn't take any action until recently, and therefore you will no longer beat yourself up about this? Do I have this right?

I realize that this post is about you, not him, but there's still one element that doesn't make sense to me. You write, "He said he filed, his accounts are in escrow which wouldn't have happened if some legal action hadn't been taken. The problem is there is no record of the filing in the system."

He says he filed, but we know that's not true -- whether or not he thinks he filed, or his lawyer thinks he filed, the system shows that it never actually happened. However, you also say his accounts are in escrow, which is dependent on some legal action. This begs the obvious follow-up questions: how do you KNOW these accounts are in escrow, and if they truly are, shouldn't you be able to see evidence that shows exactly WHAT legal action has been taken?

[unicorn2014]

He says he filed, but we know that's not true -- whether or not he thinks he filed, or his lawyer thinks he filed, the system shows that it never actually happened. However, you also say his accounts are in escrow, which is dependent on some legal action. This begs the obvious follow-up questions: how do you KNOW these accounts are in escrow, and if they truly are, shouldn't you be able to see evidence that shows exactly WHAT legal action has been taken?

Hi flourdust and thank you for replying. I don't know that its not true that he didn't file, I just know that there is nothing in the court system. He says either the court clerk or his lawyer didn't file. My dad told me not tell him he's lying, so I won't.

I will ask him those follow up questions. I assume those are two questions for me to ask him, not two questions you are asking me.

Yes you are correct, I am saying that I need to let go of the fact that it took 1.9 years to start working through the lessons and it took me 3 months to look up him in the system. I could also say it took me almost 3 years to ask him for the papers, however that can be explained by the fact its not in my nature to ask somebody to prove what they are saying is true. Up until this relationship I took people at their word.

The next lesson I have to work on is on the FOG which I'm sure will be very enlightening. I've already ready about it in SWOE as well as worked on it in the SWOE workbook.

[flourdust]

He says he filed, but we know that's not true -- whether or not he thinks he filed, or his lawyer thinks he filed, the system shows that it never actually happened. However, you also say his accounts are in escrow, which is dependent on some legal action. This begs the obvious follow-up questions: how do you KNOW these accounts are in escrow, and if they truly are, shouldn't you be able to see evidence that shows exactly WHAT legal action has been taken?

Hi flourdust and thank you for replying. I don't know that its not true that he didn't file, I just know that there is nothing in the court system. He says either the court clerk or his lawyer didn't file. My dad told me not tell him he's lying, so I won't.

I will ask him those follow up questions. I assume those are two questions for me to ask him, not two questions you are asking me.

Well, I was asking you. It's up to you to decide what you want to ask him. From what you've said (and my own experience with a BPDw), I'd imagine those questions would make him incredibly defensive and possibly lead to a blow-up.

I raised the questions, because it's clear that he's told you things that are not true and can not be backed up with evidence. (He may think they're true, or he may have a "grain of truth" reason behind them, or they might be entirely fabricated to deflect your investigation -- I'm not going to speculate. But, in objective reality, these are pretty binary events. Legal papers are filed or not filed. An account is in escrow or not in escrow.) You may have broken through one fabrication/exaggeration/misunderstanding/lie, but there may be more layers of deception behind it. Don't let yourself be hurt. As George W. Bush said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me -- we won't get fooled again."

[unicorn2014]

Well, I was asking you. It's up to you to decide what you want to ask him. From what you've said (and my own experience with a BPDw), I'd imagine those questions would make him incredibly defensive and possibly lead to a blow-up.

Right, well I did tell him I wanted to ask him a question about his escrow and then he told me he wanted to talk to me about a lease which I feel blocked me. See I set up a boundary with him that I did not want him moving out here until he straightened out his divorce so now I have to ask him 'a lease for here or a lease for there?' and if he says 'a lease for there' then I'm going to have remind him that he still has the same divorce lawyer that he says did not file the papers. I really don't want to have that conversation. Also I think the condition of the boundary I was given by one of the moderators on this board was no demands or accusations. I really don't want to have a conversation with him about his lease. He shouldn't even be talking to me about a lease without having a divorce showing up in the court system. I suppose I could relook up his name today so I just might do that.

I raised the questions, because it's clear that he's told you things that are not true and can not be backed up with evidence. (He may think they're true, or he may have a "grain of truth" reason behind them, or they might be entirely fabricated to deflect your investigation -- I'm not going to speculate. But, in objective reality, these are pretty binary events. Legal papers are filed or not filed. An account is in escrow or not in escrow.) You may have broken through one fabrication/exaggeration/misunderstanding/lie, but there may be more layers of deception behind it. Don't let yourself be hurt. As George W. Bush said, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me -- we won't get fooled again."

Ok there is no divorce in the system last time I checked which was a couple of weeks ago. How could I possible verify that there was an escrow account? I mean the way I know is he used to spend a lot of money, now he has to wait for a paycheck, so I know he does not have access to his assets anymore. How could he make that up?

[flourdust]

Ok there is no divorce in the system last time I checked which was a couple of weeks ago. How could I possible verify that there was an escrow account? I mean the way I know is he used to spend a lot of money, now he has to wait for a paycheck, so I know he does not have access to his assets anymore. How could he make that up?

I read your message about the text exchange you had today. That's a tough situation. I agree with the poster in the other thread that you have a request, not a boundary. I suppose you could try to figure out what boundary YOU can enforce if he does end up moving to your state prematurely. Like I said, a tough one. I don't know what I would do -- refuse to see him if he shows up? Wiser and more experienced heads may have better advice.

The escrow situation is also tricky, but perhaps not as complex as you imagine. You could ask to see paperwork on the escrow account -- an escrow account is held by someone, such as an attorney or bank officer. There should be documentation which he should have on hand. But it's not something you can view without going through him (or his wife, I suppose).

There are a lot of potential scenarios by which someone could spend a lot of money at one time, and then spend little. If you don't have access to his accounts, you won't know what they are. Perhaps he was trying to look like a high roller by racking up credit card debt. Perhaps he blew through savings. Perhaps he just doesn't want to spend as much any more, so he's claiming funds are tight. No way to know.

[unicorn2014]

I read your message about the text exchange you had today. That's a tough situation. I agree with the poster in the other thread that you have a request, not a boundary. I suppose you could try to figure out what boundary YOU can enforce if he does end up moving to your state prematurely. Like I said, a tough one. I don't know what I would do -- refuse to see him if he shows up? Wiser and more experienced heads may have better advice.

Hi flour dust thank you for your post.

That wouldn't make sense to refuse to see him if he shows up and stay in a r/s with him, for me, so I can't take that line of action.

The escrow situation is also tricky, but perhaps not as complex as you imagine. You could ask to see paperwork on the escrow account -- an escrow account is held by someone, such as an attorney or bank officer. There should be documentation which he should have on hand. But it's not something you can view without going through him (or his wife, I suppose).

I will simply ask him if he brings up my text "May I see paperwork on the escrow account?" What do I do if he ask why or says no? I'm not going to contact his soon to be ex wife again unless I have to. She's very vindictive according to my fiancé. I don't know if you read my post or not where I said she picked up his iPad after he fell asleep, impersonated him to talk to me and made fun of me. It was horrible. I had to ask her to pick up the phone and call me so she could verify her identity. All she had to do the first time was pick up the phone and call me but according to my fiancé she chose to be vindictive and make me twist in the wind. No way am I going to contact someone like that if I don't have to.

There are a lot of potential scenarios by which someone could spend a lot of money at one time, and then spend little. If you don't have access to his accounts, you won't know what they are. Perhaps he was trying to look like a high roller by racking up credit card debt. Perhaps he blew through savings. Perhaps he just doesn't want to spend as much any more, so he's claiming funds are tight. No way to know.

He doesn't have credit card debt. He was funding his business which his soon to be ex wife let go into the hole after he got into an accident.