Out of the blue, she calls the cops again - and an update

[JRT]

My ex is mentally ill, she alters and changes reality often, what worries me is false allegations.

Pick your battles.

I agree... .this is the one that I have chosen... .she will lose this one as certain as she has not prevailed with the cops at this point. What kind of person does something over and over with the expectation of different results only to be disappointed with by the same outcome as last time?

[KateCat]

No legal expertise here either, but do I remember this correctly? The original court filing was a small claims action for a stainless steel engagement ring?

Now the case has moved "up" to a court of general jurisdiction? Does that mean that additional issues are now under consideration by the court?

Is it hoped that the two parties will emerge with something more than a judgment regarding personal property? Something that will produce guidelines of future conduct for both parties and bring an end to conflict? 

[jhkbuzz]

I sense that this is going to all backfire on her. Her greatest goal: avoid ANY sort of contact with me.

Now that the case has been moved to general court, we will be deposing her through the discovery process AND she will be called as a witness to testify.

And then she will finally have to face you, eh JRT? That is what this is all about. It's not about the ring - you tell yourself it's about the ring but it's not. It's about control.

If the court rules in my favor and I recieve fair market value or the property returned then I am done. Even better if she appears in court and must see me eye to eye.

What is the end game here? The return of my stuff. Being forced to face me.

It seems clear that you relish the idea that you may still have some control over her.

... .Its clear she wants the drama to continue.

No, it's not. It's clear she doesn't want to see you at all. It's also clear that you want to see her, no matter what it costs either of you.

As a woman, I can say that I find your drive for control over the situation - and your unwillingness to let her go - deeply frightening.

You're making excuses for your own behaviour, which comes across as obsessive, controlling and vengeful, whether you mean it to be or not. I understand your hurt but I'm sorry man, this is just not rational behaviour in any way shape or form.

Agreed.

[Skip]

So netting this out:

More than anything, she wants no contact. She has gone to great pains to be no contact for 13 months.

You want to beat her by to threatening to force her to face you in a deposition and/or write you a check for $100 or so in defeat.

Vengeance is the closure and the healing you seek.

So she was essentially right when she called the cops and accused you of using the legal system to force contact and force her to deal with you.

I respect you for having the openness to share your thoughts on this.

I have to ask the hard question, though - if you are coming here for healing - and you read what so many have said to you - that you are not on an emotionally mature or healthy path - why not head the lesson and take the high road.

This is the high road - the end of the drama - this is what the emotionally mature exit strategy looks like... .

>> >End it tonight - in the next hour - call your attorney and say "I'll put whatever of her stuff that I still have in storage with a combo lock and she can pick it up anytime in the next 30 days. I will throw it away after 30 days.  I  ask that she will return whatever property of mine that she still has to my attorney.  No questions asked.  We both walk away". << <

The choice is yours. Drama and vengeance over the next few months.  End the drama tonight - which will be painful (you are heavily invested in it - this was a big wound the way it all ended - I get that).

Not telling you what to do - just framing the choices. Good mental health is hard - its making hard choices at time like this - not giving into to our weak side.

[BorisAcusio]

Let's say that you won, is there a chance that she may be vindictive and she'll take you to court for something else?

Validating her ominous dark presence and ever continuing imaginary "interest" in JRT's life will only perpetuate the conflict. She seems to be afraid and I have to say, quite rightfully. As jhk said, this stuff is deeply frightening and we may actively assisting here to break someone down.

[JRT]

No legal expertise here either, but do I remember this correctly? The original court filing was a small claims action for a stainless steel engagement ring? Yes, but silver

Now the case has moved "up" to a court of general jurisdiction? No, only general court Does that mean that additional issues are now under consideration by the court? no

Is it hoped that the two parties will emerge with something more than a judgment regarding personal property? no Something that will produce guidelines of future conduct for both parties and bring an end to conflict?  not even under consideration... .I just want my stuff returned is all

[JRT]

I sense that this is going to all backfire on her. Her greatest goal: avoid ANY sort of contact with me.

Now that the case has been moved to general court, we will be deposing her through the discovery process AND she will be called as a witness to testify.

And then she will finally have to face you, eh JRT? That is what this is all about. It's not about the ring - you tell yourself it's about the ring but it's not. It's about control. um, no

If the court rules in my favor and I recieve fair market value or the property returned then I am done. Even better if she appears in court and must see me eye to eye.

What is the end game here? The return of my stuff. Being forced to face me.

It seems clear that you relish the idea that you may still have some control over her. um, no... .just a bonus. Don't read too deeply.

... .Its clear she wants the drama to continue.

No, it's not. well then she would jsut return my property wouldn't she? Or she would not file false police reports, right. Or she would n't be stalking me on social media. neither would she be calling my friends.  It's clear she doesn't want to see you at all tell me, where did I claim that? . It's also clear that you want to see her, no matter what it costs either of you. umm... .right. Where do you get this stuff?

As a woman, I can say that I find your drive for control over the situation - and your unwillingness to let her go - deeply frightening. I'm amused by your assertion. How do you conjure these assertions. Holy cow, I have a girlfriend! isn't it enough that I just say, 'I want my stuff back'?  You have to go and do my thinking for me.

You're making excuses for your own behaviour, which comes across as obsessive, controlling and vengeful, whether you mean it to be or not. I understand your hurt but I'm sorry man, this is just not rational behaviour in any way shape or form. Rolling eyes... .just want my stuff returned... .thanks

Agreed.

[JRT]

So netting this out:

More than anything, she wants no contact . She has gone to great pains to be no contact for 13 months. so? Should a thief not answer for the things they have stolen just because?

You want to beat her by to threatening to force her to face you in a deposition and/or write you a check for $100 or so in defeat. Its my legal right isn't it? And its $1000

Vengeance is the closure and the healing you seek. ummmm, no... .just my property... .how much more clear should I be?

So she was essentially right when she called the cops and accused you of using the legal system to force contact and force her to deal with you. huh? It would have been nice if she was a big girl and just dealt with the situation. She took things that did not belong to her. She refused the equitable return of them. Do you suggest that people should simply allow others to keep property that they have stolen? Whats your point here sir?

I respect you for having the openness to share your thoughts on this. I don't sense respect, sorry. I sense contempt.

I have to ask the hard question, though - if you are coming here for healing - and you read what so many have said to you - that you are not on an emotionally mature or healthy path - why not head the lesson and take the high road. I AM! How is obtaining my property immature and unhealthy? How is being treated like a doormat mature and healthy?

This is the high road - the end of the drama - this is what the emotionally mature exit strategy looks like... .for you, maybe. How can you possibly apply your standards against others and demand that they accept it?

>> >End it tonight - in the next hour - call your attorney and say "I'll put whatever of her stuff that I still have in storage with a combo lock and she can pick it up anytime in the next 30 days. I will throw it away after 30 days.  I  ask that she will return whatever property of mine that she still has to my attorney.  No questions asked.  We both walk away". << <

Sigh... .I tried this already and it did not work... .you posted on that thread, remember?

The choice is yours. yes it is... .and I didn't post to have my choice and motivation challenged.  Drama and vengeance over the next few months. but is not to me End the drama tonight - which will be painful (you are heavily invested in it - this was a big wound the way it all ended - I get that). it doesn't bother me AT ALL. Just curious... .like I have been saying. What DOES bother me would be if I simply laid down and let someone walk all over me. maybe thats why some never get over this. Maybe they need to stop just taking the blows? This is what seems to be the advocated approach.

Not telling you what to do yes you are. - just framing the choices. I'm a 49 year old educated man; I knew what they ere before you forced yours upon me- i didn't ask for my choices.  Good mental health is hard - its making hard choices at time like this - not giving into to our weak side. this is strength I assure you

[JRT]

Let's say that you won, is there a chance that she may be vindictive and she'll take you to court for something else?

Validating her ominous dark presence and ever continuing imaginary "interest" in JRT's life will only perpetuate the conflict. She seems to be afraid and I have to say, quite rightfully. As jhk said, this stuff is deeply frightening and we may actively assisting here to break someone down.

Is this where the 'accusio' comes from? This post made my evening.

[JRT]

Why is it always the same people, reading FAR too deeply into motivation and emotional state? Always entirely ignoring the questions posed by the author and making preposterous assumptions regarding the situation.

Guys: SHE is stalking me... .she is calling my house... .talking to my friends and refusing to return property... .going to the cops to report that I have contacted her when I have not and God knows what else! . Meanwhile, I have not contacted her save for a text three months ago, over a 1 year period with the exception of a summons. I am not sure what is more mind boggling: the fact that she continues to do this or that I am on a support site for Borderlines who seem to believe that I have some sort of serious problem by virtue of the fact that I have not contacted my ex AND various other 'facts' that they seem to know about that I don't know about myself.

Before the condemnation, did anyone bother to even consider the question that I posted? I was once here because the pain was tearing me up inside... .those days have thankfully passed. Now I have a bit of a detached curiosity about her behaviors and I am convinced that these 'pings' will continue into the future. I am guided by curiosity at this point. Lets face it; for every one on this thread, it has become a preoccupation, I would have thought that you all 'get it'. If you have some insight into HER behavior (not mine, but thanks anyway), I welcome your commentary.

[BlackHoleSun]

I'm just going to come out and say it... .Narcissistic Personality Disorder having suffered a serious Narcissistic Injury.

Look at the behaviour on display here. It's insane. It's driven by hate and spite and pure malice. It's driven by the need to control and hurt another person. There's zero repect for another human beings wishes, rights and free will. You don't own her, though you're acting as though you think you do. You know exactly what you're doing JRT. The right thing? Hilarious! I'll tell you something about doing the right thing... .

I've been involved with a quiet BPD. In all honesty she is one of the most beautiful, kind and caring people i've ever met. She takes everything out on herself. She punishes herself even for other people's mistakes and problems. She hurts inside more than I'll ever be able to understand. The reason people with BPD cut-off is because they are scared, because they are afraid, because they feel they have been wronged, because they can no longer cope with their overwhelming emotions. This person has a SEVERE disorder that can lead into psychosis especially during times of stress. So what are you doing? Happily causing her stress. Can you really not just let it go and show some compassion? I'm seeing a total lack of empathy from you. If your ex has BPD is that not punishment enough for her?

Not sure why i'm bothering writing this as you just don't listen. You're always right, everybody else is wrong and those people who don't agree with you are out to get you. If you honestly think your chosen path with your situation is a good one then your beyond help. Although being a rational person I realise you have free will to make your own decisions. I'm more concerned about your ex now tbh. Hopefully the cops will sort this all out. So yeah, walk away live strong or run yourself into the ground obsessing over your BPD ex. I can tell you how this ends though... .the BPD wins. They always outsmart the NPDs.

[Skip]

... .and I didn't post to have my choice and motivation challenged

This is, in part, what this support group does… act as a sounding board.

a serious Narcissistic Injury

I have this same concern, JRT. I share this with you and with a caring heart. Its not pings, or property, or lost love that drives you. It's a blow to the ego - the whole idealization devaluation thing can really wreck havoc - break the psyche. This is not a label - the APA didn't create these categories as labels - it's an injury, just like depression, that can be identified, characterized, and healed.

You're not alone in this, here.

We can help you.

[hurting300]

Skip is right, normal people get narcissistic injuries. You went thru a TRAUMA.

[BlackHoleSun]

I personally know what its like to have someone cut you off. I didn't even get a hint that anything was going on. Didn't even get a goodbye. Nothing! Just went totally ghost on me. It is traumatic. But that's not an excuse to trample someone else's wishes and boundaries or disrespect their decisions or attempt to control and manipulate them. You can't use BPD as an excuse and forge ahead with your own internal logic. The ironic thing about all this is that JRT is clearly getting annoyed that he feels other people aren't respecting his wishes or views yet is completely and utterly disregarding those of his ex gf. She has a very severe PD, she hasn't purposefully gone out of her way to cause JRT pain and misery. She really can't help her behaviour. JRT can, unless he actually is NPD. Which looking at his behaviour is a possibility. My ex's father suffered with it and my BPD gf was co-morbid with it. There are some remarkable similarities and BPD/NPD relationships are apparently very common as they are mutually attracted to one another, often locked in a game of control and one upmanship. Which sounds remarkably like what's going on here.

Not sure there's anything more to say really. I've tried my best to help out, even if i do speak my mind and tell it exactly how i see it. I have empathy for the guy but i'm sure that any rational person can see that walking away is the healthiest, the easiest and the best thing to do for all parties involved. I'm convinced if JRT does carry on down the path he's on though it's not going to end well. The cops won't be messing about and if he displays the kind of behaviour he has done on some of the threads on here and in the PMs he sent me then he's going to end up in some serious, serious trouble. One last time - move on JRT for your own sake, for the sake of your new gf and most importantly for the sake of your ex.

[AsGoodAsItGets]

Lot of sadness,  yet why not what's another couple of year, go for it, do what makes you happy.  Do what's in your legal rights.  Get that ring.  We will be here for your.  Good luck.

[KateCat]

She has some property of mine that I would like to have returned among those items, the engagement ring. I took her to Europe to propose and and ran out of time before the trip so I had to buy a cheapo Sterling silver ring as a ‘stand in’ ring while her permanent one was being built….it only cost $250 but I want it back as it means a lot to me.

Here is where this gets interesting: I sent her a text message which she had replied via an attorney that does work for her employer threatening a PPO (though he doesn’t practice this type of law AND went as far as to admit that he has no case against me). She tells him she does not have the ring and I file the suit. She then goes to the cops in the city she now lives in to try to get them to compel me to DROP THE SUIT (since the lawsuit is contact, and she doesn’t want you to contact her)! The cop wanted to scare me as well and ended up admitting that I broke no law and that they would effectively do nothing so long as I was lawful.

Yesterday, the lawyer calls me back to ask for particulars about the case since his client will not accept the summons (huh?)! He further explained that he will be appearing in court to defend her….a $750 an hour lawyer is going to defend someone over a $250 ring (that she still has!).

JRT, in an August 20 post, you wrote that you purchased "a cheapo Sterling silver ring as a ‘stand in’ ring while her permanent one was being built….it only cost $250."

It is your legal right to sue this troubled woman for damages, but I hope you don't do it.

[once removed]

Why is it always the same people, reading FAR too deeply into motivation and emotional state? Always entirely ignoring the questions posed by the author and making preposterous assumptions regarding the situation.

JRT, some friendly advice:

people are going by your words as that is all we have. they are telling words. many of them ("she will be forced to face me" repeated several times as your own motivation(s). one need not read too deeply to find them concerning. you have also called her a monster numerous times. it begs a lot of questions, most of which have been asked of you, most of which have been dismissed by you, including a practical plan to end all of this over night. you also want inside the head of the monster you have claimed to move on from.

it is possible that multiple people sharing the same concerns could all be wrong. in that case, its more useful to examine your words rather than justify them and argue at length. boil it down. be clear about what you are asking. you are getting the responses you are getting for a reason. i get it, you dont want yourself to be the focus of your responses. understandable. simple solution: stop making yourself the focus.

you have asked many times for us to tell you what is going on in her head. none of us can tell you that. we are going by her actions, which you have described, but seem to ignore. there is a consensus on what her actions are telling you. the question has been answered to the extent it can be. you dont seem to like the answer, but persist in asking. its a stalemate. youre largely in control of the board and its your move.

sidenote: "stalking" is a strong word to describe the cyber behavior and telephone calls. i believe you. ive read similar stories and experienced some of it myself. it is confusing behavior. to tell you the truth, i have no idea what drove it, but when push came to shove, i removed myself from the equation, as has been suggested to you. it was contradictory, confusing, i would call it obsessive and bizarre, but not on the level of stalking. word choices like this may undermine your credibility and get a lot of push back.

bottom line: if you dont like the feedback youre getting, change your approach.

[ForeverDad]

I was once here because the pain was tearing me up inside... .those days have thankfully passed. Now I have a bit of a detached curiosity about her behaviors and I am convinced that these 'pings' will continue into the future. I am guided by curiosity at this point. Lets face it; for every one on this thread, it has become a preoccupation, I would have thought that you all 'get it'. If you have some insight into HER behavior (not mine, but thanks anyway), I welcome your commentary.

Over the years I've noticed a few people posting here how they wanted to 'observe' and 'figure out' what the other or ex was thinking.  This was not productive for them, they were stuck for far too long.  They may still be stuck to this day for all I know.  We don't want that for you.  We want you to ponder your situation, decide what can be addressed and what needs to be Let Go.  Can you do that?  Can you Let Go and Move On?

If the major item is worth about $1K, that's about 2 or 3 weeks of earnings for someone earning minimum wage.  I expect you earn much more than that, so it would have even less of an impact on your life.  Sure, not pocket change, but not the end of the world either.  Yet for over a year there has been this legal struggle with your ex.  Over a year.  No children involved.  No joint ownership of accounts.  Only some items, things that in the Grand Scheme of Life barely merit a road bump.

Yes, she might not stop contacting people you know, maybe she views them as mutual friends even though your relationship ended.  For all we know, she might only be asking them why you're not letting all this go.  I'm not saying she's not disordered.  Frankly, by now it doesn't matter whether she has a PD or not, is diagnosed or not, has X or Y behaviors or not.  She is what she is.  Now it's time for introspection, you would do well to look at yourself too.  You're 'curious' about the way she thinks.  Well, if she's got mental illness in the form of a PD, it won't make logical sense.  You could lecture about the behaviors, write a text book about them, almost predict them but it still would not make everyday common sense.  That's precisely what mental illness IS, whether to a greater or lesser extent.  We often write here that we can't force the other person to change, whereas it's totally up to us to makes changes to ourselves.  So we've discussed her and her behaviors at length, now it's time for you to assimilate this and do some introspection.

[JRT]

I'm just going to come out and say it... .Narcissistic Personality Disorder having suffered a serious Narcissistic Injury.

Look at the behaviour on display here. It's insane. It's driven by hate and spite and pure malice. It's driven by the need to control and hurt another person. There's zero repect for another human beings wishes, rights and free will. You don't own her, though you're acting as though you think you do. You know exactly what you're doing JRT. The right thing? Hilarious! I'll tell you something about doing the right thing... .

I've been involved with a quiet BPD. In all honesty she is one of the most beautiful, kind and caring people i've ever met. She takes everything out on herself. She punishes herself even for other people's mistakes and problems. She hurts inside more than I'll ever be able to understand. The reason people with BPD cut-off is because they are scared, because they are afraid, because they feel they have been wronged, because they can no longer cope with their overwhelming emotions. This person has a SEVERE disorder that can lead into psychosis especially during times of stress. So what are you doing? Happily causing her stress. Can you really not just let it go and show some compassion? I'm seeing a total lack of empathy from you. If your ex has BPD is that not punishment enough for her?

Not sure why i'm bothering writing this as you just don't listen. You're always right, everybody else is wrong and those people who don't agree with you are out to get you. If you honestly think your chosen path with your situation is a good one then your beyond help. Although being a rational person I realise you have free will to make your own decisions. I'm more concerned about your ex now tbh. Hopefully the cops will sort this all out. So yeah, walk away live strong or run yourself into the ground obsessing over your BPD ex. I can tell you how this ends though... .the BPD wins. They always outsmart the NPDs.

I have shown compassion to myself and have NOT contacted her. You can indulge in your strange fantasy all that you want BHS, its amusing. 

[JRT]

... .and I didn't post to have my choice and motivation challenged

This is, in part, what this support group does… act as a sounding board.

a sounding board ignores basic facts and charges people with disorders? Really?

a serious Narcissistic Injury

I have this same concern, JRT. No offense, but your concerns are not my worry.  I share this with you and with a caring heart. Its not pings, or property, or lost love that drives you. It's a blow to the ego - the whole idealization devaluation thing can really wreck havoc - break the psyche How many times must I say this: I JUST WANT MY STUFF RETURNED?. This is not a label - the APA didn't create these categories as labels - it's an injury, just like depression, that can be identified, characterized, and healed.

You're not alone in this, here.

We can help you. This is the antithesis to help, you realize that don't you?

[JRT]

JRT, in an August 20 post, you wrote that you purchased "a cheapo Sterling silver ring as a ‘stand in’ ring while her permanent one was being built….it only cost $250."

It is your legal right to sue this troubled woman for damages, but I hope you don't do it. This is correct... .why wouldn't I? [/quote]

[JRT]

Skip is right, normal people get narcissistic injuries. You went thru a TRAUMA.

Not certain what you point is.

[JRT]

Why is it always the same people, reading FAR too deeply into motivation and emotional state? Always entirely ignoring the questions posed by the author and making preposterous assumptions regarding the situation.

JRT, some friendly advice:

people are going by your words as that is all we have. they are telling words. many of them ("she will be forced to face me" repeated several times as your own motivation(s) did they count how many times that I was clear is saying 'I just want my stuff back... .it will giv eme waht little closure I will ever get'? Or did you not notice the myriad times I wrote that as well? . one need not read too deeply to find them concerning. you have also called her a monster numerous times She is not? . it begs a lot of questions, most of which have been asked of you, most of which have been dismissed by you I have been accused of having THE problem as far as I see, including a practical plan to end all of this over night I have a very clear plan that ya'll seem to be ignoring: I am going to have my things returned to me. I am going to continue dating the woman that I have been seeing for the past 8 months. What do you need that is more concise? This works for me/ Should I find out where she lives, go to her house and immolate myself in front of her? . you also want inside the head of the monster you have claimed to move on from. Yes, I am interested in learning about what motivates her behavior just like EVERYONE ON THIS SITE.

it is possible that multiple people sharing the same concerns could all be wrong It couldn't be more obvious. Some of you are simply making things up as you go! Its strange. . in that case, its more useful to examine your words rather than justify them and argue at length  boil it down. be clear about what you are asking. you are getting the responses you are getting for a reason. i get it, you dont want yourself to be the focus of your responses. understandable. simple solution: stop making yourself the focus. As a writer, I would disagree. I have been very clear. How can I engage with folks that seem to make things up and are quick to judge? Hell, not ONE person has answered the question that I asked in the original post! Does this mean that I have a writing problem or that people have a reading problem? And its the SAME PEOPLE every time and others have complained to the extent that they simply don't post any longer or don't visit the site.

you have asked many times for us to tell you what is going on in her head. none of us can tell you that so then why do people offer their opinion? When someone asks for the time, do you respond by saying 'what the hell motivated you to say that, jerk!'?. we are going by her actions, which you have described, but seem to ignore. there is a consensus on what her actions are telling you. the question has been answered to the extent it can be. you dont seem to like the answer but there IS no answer... .you just said that. Nontheless, it is nice to know if someone had a similar experience or such. Thats really more of what I am looking for, not the armchair therapy cum trial. , but persist in asking. its a stalemate. youre largely in control of the board and its your move. I have long since felt the opposite.

sidenote: "stalking" is a strong word to describe the cyber behavior and telephone calls. i believe you. ive read similar stories and experienced some of it myself. it is confusing behavior. to tell you the truth, i have no idea what drove it, but when push came to shove, i removed myself from the equation, as has been suggested to you. it was contradictory, confusing, i would call it obsessive and bizarre, but not on the level of stalking. word choices like this may undermine your credibility and get a lot of push back. I am not bothered by it. It was annoying at some point but it really doesn't bother me. I can see where one would think that if the assumption was made that it triggered me somehow, but it doesn't. I have explained this over and over on this thread on others. It just seems to get ignored. Yes: she seems to be obsessing over me. Yes, this looks to her to not be over. When and if anything related to her and the b/u take place, I will deal with it like an adult man just like I am dealing with having my property returned to me.

bottom line: if you dont like the feedback youre getting, change your approach.

[ForeverDad]

How many times must I say this: I JUST WANT MY STUFF RETURNED?

We understand.  It isn't fair, right or justifiable.  However, the judicial system is not a justice system nor does it try to be fair.  If you expect a judge to lecture her, wag his/her finger at her or whatever, that's not likely to happen.  Maybe you'll get your ring back, maybe you'll get your other things back, but don't expect the court to do as you expect.

Years ago I was blocked from my preschooler for over 3 months, not even my calls got through to him.  Police were no help either, they told me to come back once I had a court order in hand.  In all, it took 3 months.  I was so sure she would get her comeuppance once we were back in court again.  Guess what?  The magistrate confirmed from her that she had blocked all father-child contact for 3 months.  I thought, "Here it comes... ."  He simply said, "Well, I'll fix that" and restored the lapsed parenting schedule we had before.  I was alternate weekend Dad again.  Not finger wagged at her, no lecture for her, no reduced time for her, no makeup time for me.  Was I stunned?  You bet!  Did I feel injustice, even unfairness?  Yes!  But there was nothing for me to do, I had to Move On.

Oh, how I would have traded my distress for what you have.  Many others too would swap their problems with yours in an instant.  Yes, it is hard for you.  That is clear.  But understand that what many here have dealt with - and walked out strong despite the ordeals - is a Lesson we're trying to pass on to you, that the price you'll pay to Let It Go is, by comparison, not as huge as it seems.

GIFT yourself Freedom.  Please.

[Turkish]

Wanted to remind everyone of the discussion format and the absolute necessity of presenting our thoughts in a collegial way. Our common interests and goals are what brings us together - let it not be what comes between us.

3.0 Discussion Format: bpdfamily/bpdfamily.com is set up as a collegium. We follow a Collegial Discussion format which is characterized as having "authority" vested equally among colleagues/peers. As such, members present their ideas in "collegial harmony" and the credibility of their positions are based solely on the quality of the points they advance in writing. Diversity is to be embraced - there is often much to be learned from others views and perspectives.

Please note that collegial discussion is different than debate. Debate is an argument or a discussion generally ending with a vote or agreement on the best decision. In debate, unity is the objective. Members are discouraged from debating and arguing against others' positions, questioning the wisdom of others, or restating of their position repeatedly. See also Advising and Supporting Others, Respecting Belief Systems, Divisive Exchanges, Lying and Misrepresentations, or Advocating for Others.

3.1 Advising and Supporting Others: Members should offer advice as peer opinions targeted directly to the host of the thread. Members shall offer only compassionate, well founded and fact based advice.

Members critiquing, or challenging the advise of others should offer their comments in a respectful, positive and constructive manner. Members should respect and embrace the opinions of others, not deride them, and recognize diversity is an important part of the learning process. Collegial Discussion is the exchange of ideas, not a debate or an argument to be won. Our common interests and goals are what brings us together - let it not be what comes between us.

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[JRT]

Lot of sadness,  yet why not what's another couple of year, go for it, do what makes you happy.  Do what's in your legal rights.  Get that ring.  We will be here for your.  Good luck.

Thanks... .its really that simple. I appreciate your post. So many others made it into something that it is not. Its comforting to know that someone understands (among many who should, but don't seem to).

[JRT]

I was once here because the pain was tearing me up inside... .those days have thankfully passed. Now I have a bit of a detached curiosity about her behaviors and I am convinced that these 'pings' will continue into the future. I am guided by curiosity at this point. Lets face it; for every one on this thread, it has become a preoccupation, I would have thought that you all 'get it'. If you have some insight into HER behavior (not mine, but thanks anyway), I welcome your commentary.

Over the years I've noticed a few people posting here how they wanted to 'observe' and 'figure out' what the other or ex was thinking.  This was not productive for them, they were stuck for far too long.  They may still be stuck to this day for all I know.  We don't want that for you.  We want you to ponder your situation, decide what can be addressed and what needs to be Let Go.  Can you do that?  Can you Let Go and Move On?

If the major item is worth about $1K, that's about 2 or 3 weeks of earnings for someone earning minimum wage.  I expect you earn much more than that, so it would have even less of an impact on your life.  Sure, not pocket change, but not the end of the world either.  Yet for over a year there has been this legal struggle with your ex.  Over a year.  No children involved.  No joint ownership of accounts.  Only some items, things that in the Grand Scheme of Life barely merit a road bump.

Yes, she might not stop contacting people you know, maybe she views them as mutual friends even though your relationship ended.  For all we know, she might only be asking them why you're not letting all this go.  I'm not saying she's not disordered.  Frankly, by now it doesn't matter whether she has a PD or not, is diagnosed or not, has X or Y behaviors or not.  She is what she is.  Now it's time for introspection, you would do well to look at yourself too.  You're 'curious' about the way she thinks.  Well, if she's got mental illness in the form of a PD, it won't make logical sense.  You could lecture about the behaviors, write a text book about them, almost predict them but it still would not make everyday common sense.  That's precisely what mental illness IS, whether to a greater or lesser extent.  We often write here that we can't force the other person to change, whereas it's totally up to us to makes changes to ourselves.  So we've discussed her and her behaviors at length, now it's time for you to assimilate this and do some introspection.

Thanks for your thought FD

Yes, the value is not terribly high, but I have collected on small sums that are business related in the past. It is the principle of things that motivates me and those that are close to me are supportive of these efforts as they are this one. They are, in fact, VERY supportive. My childhood buddy/lawyer is working the case for free. The return of my items will provide the only closure that I will ever experience with this episode, but somehow to the culture on this forum, this is bad. It constitutes that I have NPD! (wow! Never mind any diagnostic criteria, ).

I have been in a loving and caring relationship since the winter. Here and then, I think about her when there are triggers. But that herd of elephants feeling and deep down desire that we really reunite are both long gone and never to return. My use for this site is truly for learning... .it IS fascinating and at times I wonder if there are any others that have experienced the same sorts of things.

[enlighten me]

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