BPD and empathy

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

So the general consensus is that people with BPD/npd do not have the capacity for empathy.

Empathy is understanding the recognising others emotional state. What I don't understand is why people think they are not capable of this. My suspected borderline ex said things he knew would upset me many times and said them for that purpose. If he was unhappy with me he would say hurtful things and claim he didnt mean them. When I asked him why he said them he said it was because he knew it would hurt me. Surely behaviour like this shows they do have empathy as they know and act on what makes us unhappy and happy?

[klacey3]

So the general consensus is that people with BPD/npd do not have the capacity for empathy.

Empathy is understanding the recognising others emotional state. What I don't understand is why people think they are not capable of this. My suspected borderline ex said things he knew would upset me many times and said them for that purpose. If he was unhappy with me he would say hurtful things and claim he didnt mean them. When I asked him why he said them he said it was because he knew it would hurt me. Surely behaviour like this shows they do have empathy as they know and act on what makes us unhappy and happy?

[scgator]

So the general consensus is that people with BPD/npd do not have the capacity for empathy.

Empathy is understanding the recognising others emotional state. What I don't understand is why people think they are not capable of this. My suspected borderline ex said things he knew would upset me many times and said them for that purpose. If he was unhappy with me he would say hurtful things and claim he didnt mean them. When I asked him why he said them he said it was because he knew it would hurt me. Surely behaviour like this shows they do have empathy as they know and act on what makes us unhappy and happy?

Klacey, as we've both said before, you and I have been through much of the same experiences.

I struggled with this as well and what's funny is my exgf was described to me as a very caring person with a heart of gold and I did experience this at times. I think she had the capacity to put herself in my shoes at times, theoretically anyway, but there was no way for her to understand how I would feel based upon my view of the world. She could only see my perspective from her emotional viewpoint. I asked one time that if I were the one accusing her of all these things that she didn't do, what would her reaction be? She said she wouldn't know what to say - I said welcome to my world. I would later bring that up to defend not replying to her accusations but it didn't seem to help.

I don't know if any of that that makes any sense - but it was almost like, in the experience I had anyway, she was hurting and so in order for her to feel better I had to hurt too. Later there was some bit of empathy, she knew what she'd done, yet it was too much to deal with so it was just brushed off. Otherwise, the pain would be too much, she would be hurting again and feel the need to feel better by making me hurt - and on and on, which deep down I don't think she wanted to do but she knew no other way of dealing with the emotions. But really, I have no idea what was going on inside her.

[enlighten me]

I believe my uBPD exs have empathy. I think the problem comes when someone is too emotionally close to them. I think then their emotions take over and it confuses things.

My exgf was a carer for the elderly. She was apparently quite good. I often wondered how she could show them empathy and not me. The difference being she only interacted with them for a short time. With me there were more emotions involved. It could be the emotional overload leaves them numb.

[Learning Fast]

I believe that they as individuals have empathy.  Unfortunately the disorder doesn't and it will trump any attempt by them to express empathy when they are emotionally overcome.

[Mutt]

So the general consensus is that people with BPD/npd do not have the capacity for empathy.

Empathy is understanding the recognising others emotional state. What I don't understand is why people think they are not capable of this.

BPD is an emotional based disorder and a sufferer of BPD have difficulties regulating emotions or the ability to self sooth; feel emotions more intensely and longer; feel more negative feelings than positive ones.

It doesn't mean that a sufferer of BPD doesn't empathy, a sufferer of BPD have difficulties showing empathy when the person is overwhelmed with their own emotions.

Having empathy isn't so easy when one is in a distraught emotional state. Keep in mind that BPD sufferers are often flooded with conflicted and painful emotions. During times of dysregulation, an emotional response that is more intense than normal, Borderline Personality sufferers can be so overwhelmed with emotion that makes them, at worst, incapable fo normal functioning , and at best, internally focused, self centered and self absorbed.

Often a person with BPD doesn’t have emotional energy to spare to consider the emotions of others.

Do people with Borderline Personality Disorder lack of Empathy?

[cyclistIII]

I think of it as, they absolutely have empathy, but our emotions are at regular volume, and when they dysregulate, their own emotions are like a bullhorn that completely drown out everything else.

[flourdust]

So the general consensus is that people with BPD/npd do not have the capacity for empathy.

Empathy is understanding the recognising others emotional state. What I don't understand is why people think they are not capable of this.

BPD is an emotional based disorder and a sufferer of BPD have difficulties regulating emotions or the ability to self sooth; feel emotions more intensely and longer; feel more negative feelings than positive ones.

It doesn't mean that a sufferer of BPD doesn't empathy, a sufferer of BPD have difficulties showing empathy when the person is overwhelmed with their own emotions.

Having empathy isn't so easy when one is in a distraught emotional state. Keep in mind that BPD sufferers are often flooded with conflicted and painful emotions. During times of dysregulation, an emotional response that is more intense than normal, Borderline Personality sufferers can be so overwhelmed with emotion that makes them, at worst, incapable fo normal functioning , and at best, internally focused, self centered and self absorbed.

Often a person with BPD doesn’t have emotional energy to spare to consider the emotions of others.

Do people with Borderline Personality Disorder lack of Empathy?

That really resonates with me. My wife can be kind, compassionate, sympathetic. She'll take care of me when I'm sick. She'll share joy and anger. But when she's in a very bad part of her cycle, she doesn't seem to care at all how other people are feeling, especially how her actions are affecting others.

[Gonzalo]

You can call picking up on other people's emotional state and reacting to it or provoking reactions empathy, but that's really just affective empathy, not the whole story. Cognitive Empathy is about being able to place yourself into another person's shoes and understand what they're feeling from their frame of reference, and that's what pwBPD tend to have difficulty with. The fact that these two things are both called empathy makes the discussion confusing. I think pwBPD tend to mistake projection for cognitive empathy also, they 'decide' that you're thinking a certain way, and then believe that they picked up on your thought process.

My experience with my ex- was that she was extremely good at picking up on any signs of distress or irritation (which would lead to things like shouting at me for shifting my hands wrong), and good at pushing the buttons she had figured out.  But she was absolutely terrible at understanding what I wanted or why I wanted it, and tended to just project her own desires into her picture. For example, anytime I tried to talk to her about something that bothered me, she would make a big deal about stopping the symptom (like her saying a specific phrase) rather than the underlying cause, and didn't even seem to understand when I'd try to explain that my problem wasn't with a specific word.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201309/do-people-borderline-disorder-have-empathy

www.psychcentral.com/news/2015/08/31/low-empathy-associated-with-borderline-personality/91612.html

[klacey3]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Gonzalo that link was very interesting. I wish it gave more details about the study like what emotional faces they could and couldnt accurately read.