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Author Topic: What are self-boundaries?  (Read 693 times)
losingconfidence
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« on: March 03, 2014, 09:53:02 PM »

I spoke with a therapist today who said that if my parents won't accept boundaries, I need to set boundaries for my own behavior to try to make the situation better.

Has anyone else done this? What sorts of self-boundaries do you set?
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lucyhoneychurch
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 03:58:04 AM »

Hi      

I just read your other post - this woman your mother was allowing to do such disgusting sad things to you - I never had a stranger in our weird crap, but my own mother did the bowel/illness/"proof" stuff if you tried to tell her you were sick. Cramps when my periods started, literally vomiting but you still had to eat your cereal (any other morning I swear she didn't give a damn) etc -

I was made to deal with younger siblings' bathroom trips too  :'(  the dynamics that sets in motion forever... . I don't mean just "helping" when one of the younger ones went and needed some sort of toddler-aged assistance, I mean having to report back to her at length - i.e. she could've helped HER OWN child more appropriately than me if she needed all that.

But about self-boundaries -

You are so much younger than I was when I finally got on board with FOG and my family having been so terribly deformed as a working unit. I had been married and a mother for years before I came to grasp that my mother, that woman I defended and doted on and pacified and catered to - she was at the bottom of so much of my fear and heartaches.

You sound like you've already reached the "it's me or her" stage where I was pushed and pushed until I honestly wondered if I'd survive. Then the idea that someone was going to make me be less of a mother ("make me" as in the sense bringing so much pain into my life when my small children needed me so much, and my *allowing* this because it was the pattern and the way we all lived within my FOO) was what really seemingly suddenly - to me most of all - helped me jump ship.

Your boundaries would be - I won't answer any more personal questions. This is maybe the very hardest because that is where so much of our issues with these mothers/parents begins - they march right across our sense of privacy and autonomy and we give them the tools to do so with private information.

No more personal questions answered.  "I'm sorry, I'm not going to talk about that." Stick to it. You will get such resistance. But you will gain freedom from that inner dread of being watched, dissected.

No more financial help. At all. Take it from almost anyone else but her.

No more gifts of any kind. No means no - you have to dredge up resolve to not accept anything they swear you needed or that they worked so hard to find.

These are strings they use to hogtie your will.

Don't discuss these people with a 3rd party. Not another sibling (don't think you mentioned other children in your post) not extended relatives. Nobody. Cut the information off. Cut off the triangulation that you've lived with for so long where someone rats you out to her, and then turns and guilts you into what they want.

No more guilt trips. It is absolutely okay for you to have your life. It is so very okay to follow your heart and make your own decisions and pay your own way. NORMAL parents *want* those very things for their children. Disordered parents want their children tethered to them forever because THEY cannot stand on their own.

On days where you are really fighting your past, don't answer the phone or emails or texts. Just because technology has made you instantly available to them - the beauty of it is you don't have to be. Take a day to answer an email - or don't answer it at all. You don't not owe them your time.

Really cool concept - panic on their end does not constitute an emergency on yours. Wow, was my late mother amazing at sucking us in when we were trying to detach from her. And I mean detach like in our late 30s. I saw it with each and every sibling.

She'd stir the pot and create havoc and chaos and then honestly digest and fatten on our panic and fear and stumbling into line.

Boundaries mean you are not only saying to them and to yourself, "Here is where you will NOT be a part of my life." They haven't earned it, in fact, they lost it all de facto doing what they did to us as children.

Boundaries are finally about telling OURSELVES, "You know, that was so out of line what she just said/did, I do NOT have to be affected by someone behaving like that anymore."

It takes name calling and verbal warfare out of it. They cannot play their game if you step right off the chess board.

They cannot worm their way into your head if you've closed all avenues of approach.

Boundaries let us boot and evict these people who are living in our head space rent-free.

Emotional vampires. See what i mean? You are cutting off the supply with YOUR boundaries.

You have been programmed to respond the minute there is an invasive question or action. So it takes alot of thought and planning to hold strong.

And the minute they sense resistance, it can really get difficult to stand your ground.

When you try to topple decades-old habits and patterns, you are tearing away how their world operates. What they need to survive. The problem with children of abusive parents - we can't and won't survive their self-preserving needs and demands.  Not mentally at least.

Caller ID lets you not pick up your phone.

A big sturdy front door with a lock keeps them out of your physical personal space.

Teh ability to walk away if you are suddenly confronted with them in a store or at work is so basic but we never think we can do that - just walk away.

Boundaries, and when we start maintaing our own, are the key to freedom on so many levels.

This is a great thread. I have instilled boundaries in my own children about either family coming at them (Facebook was a real piece of work), that they can choose who to contact or not (1 child is in contact, other 2 no), that they never have to answer friends' or co-workers' pushy questions.

We have a right to our own skin. Boundaries are like emotional sunscreen.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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losingconfidence
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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 11:07:10 PM »

Wow, thank you for that thorough reply. For now I need to just try not to answer all the texts/e-mails/etc. Eventually I think it will really be "me or her." I feel unsafe visiting them (that woman is still there/around/a problem as are her creepy friends) and don't think I'll be able to tell them why I cannot come home without basically calling it quits.

The bathroom stuff you mentioned sounds so familiar. I don't have any siblings that I know of, so I don't have to worry about that at least.

The thing about taking financial help from anyone but your mom is interesting to me. My best friend is really, really wealthy (trust fund baby) and has helped me out financially a lot because she just said that she'd feel horrible letting me go back to a bad situation. The one condition she had when I was really dependent was that I did absolutely everything in my power to get financially independent. I feel bad about having taken money from her because I know my parents would be angry but I think there are fewer strings attached with her.
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PleaseValidate
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 12:20:27 AM »

Hi LC,

I WISH i had as good boundaries of LHC! Those are great!  "Emotional sunscreen"- excellent phrase! I only have a few w her because i was in NC for so long (and will be again in a few months.) These are my current ones:


- NEVER be alone w her unless a third person who knows my situation is present.

- NOT giving her any more money. (I last gave her an "emergency check" for $500 and told her not to cash unless desperate and she notifies me first."

- Because she has given me NOTHING and stolen from me in the past, i take almost anything she offers and feel no guilt. Even if i donate it to Savers, it is put to more use than being in her stale basement. Also, she "doesn't believe in donating" and i am a fierce advocate of it. 

- When she minimizes my sleep and mood mood disorders, i MUST correct her, no matter how small. This is only for my own sake as she does not absorb this and does not believe in "mental illness."  (e.g., she will try and guilt me that i didn't show up because i was "tired." I will correct her that it was due to my "sleep disorder."

- I *try* for no more guilt trips. But have not even come close to mastering this one yet . . . :'(

- Only answer calls/emails/texts when i have the "emotional strength" (even if this is over 2 weeks and she gets PO'ed)

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coraliesolange

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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 03:41:36 PM »

No personal information.  It can be used as a weapon.  If you choose to communicate, you are allowed to choose the terms and if the other party won't abide you don't have to communicate.  Meet on neutral ground at a specified time for a specified amount of time. Prepare topics to discuss and be confident knowing that you don't have to discuss anything you don't want to.  What it really comes down to is just being strong and remembering that YOU control your life.
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Louise7777
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 04:16:40 PM »

Great thread, thanks for starting it, LosingConfidence.

I think you got great advice. Im sorry for your situation, its specially hard to deal cause most of us keep on trying to have a good r/s with impossible people.

You know my story, I went to court today to ask for info and was invalidated ("if she doesnt want u to get inside ur property call the police but we cant sue her" WTH! Im being harrassed for 3 years!).

So, Ill do my last resourt: no reaction. Ill do whatever I have the right to, no explanations, no defending myself, no reacting to provocations. They can yell, rage, whatever. If it gets ugly Ill call the police.

To be 100% honest, after decades, the only thing that worked with "extreme PDs" is not engaging and going no contact whenever possible. I wish there was another way, but unfortunately, nothing else worked.

Its VERY draining (Im physically exhausted, Im skinny and lost 3 more kilos, my hair is falling... . ) so I decided to let them create chaos. I will just not respond. Thats MY decision. Thats the only thing I can really control: my response. Keep in mind they feed from our anger and frustration. And they come for more.

I wish you the best of luck (and my advice is protect yourself).
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Louise7777
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 04:22:17 PM »

Also, I found this website on How to NOT respond to BPDs.

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/matter-personality/201312/borderline-provocations-how-not-respond

Not sure I found it or someone else here posted it... . Its brief and I saw I still make LOTS of mistakes. 
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DesertChild
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2014, 11:45:58 AM »

(You used loosely here)

Withhold information they can leverage against you.

I agree with this. It's really amazing what you can say and they will leverage.

Their entrenched partner/friends--tell them nothing.

But for yourself, if you've been with them growing up, self-boundaries are about learning when you are being triggered and to set boundaries against that. Figure out what's the right amount of consequences for actions. To outline those things. To be able to (I know the scary word for the uBPD people which they don't really want you to learn) COMPROMISE. And realize when the compromise has failed.

This takes a super long, long time to develop though. You can do it with hard work.

You need terms for when they cross boundaries you've decided for yourself. You need to know what's important to you to keep. And how to give out and keep information. And if they want to cross a boundary, to ask for something in return--not just that person, but all people in general. It may seem selfish, but the point is to build initial trust and be able to separate yourself from the collective that the person wants you to be.

Though you may need to explain boundaries, you DO NOT need to explain the reason for those boundaries. A good person will not cross boundaries you set. And you should have clear consequences you've spelled out for those boundaries. Once you are able to do that, and in a way that isn't too rigid or soft, I think that's when it's built up.

Boundaries examples:

That person crosses my trust, I will trust that person less back until they apologize and say they won't do it again. (If they do it again... . that's another story.)

They give a backwards apology, I refuse to take it.

They demean me in public or in private, I do not react to that, but calmly say that hurt me, please apologize. If they refuse, I cut down the amount of contact.

They do not get to call me names, say my dreams are unattainable, my dreams are stupid, call me stupid, say that I'm lying, remembering wrong, ignore my feelings, lie about me, take credit for things I did, say they have a right to my things because we are supposed to be the "same" or shut down and walk away when it's important to me to never discuss the issue again. I will allow space, and respect for when they need a break, but I when important to the continuing of the relationship, there are consequences for not working it out.

Boundaries are set, but you need consequences for crossing those boundaries. I was told to treat her like a dog. You reward good behavior and calmly correct the bad behavior. If they cross those boundaries, they get a clear and equal amount of consequences.

For example, one should not ground for a month because that person stepped on a Legoes and the child is only 4 and they put in a lot of effort to pick them up. Scream at them, and then ground them automatically without listening.

Maybe acknowledge the effort they put in and ask them to be more careful and to confine their play to a specific place next time. (i.e. warning system with problem solving.)
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losingconfidence
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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2015, 05:21:10 PM »

Sorry to necropost, but I wanted to thank everyone for support. I ended up going no-contact in July of 2014. There is still a lot of guilt and pain, particularly at feeling betrayed by them and knowing that they think it's the other way around.
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