Fiancée possibly has BPD - opinions/help?

[haskellch]

In December, I met my SO through a friend. Things went very fast, we connected on many levels, very deeply really quickly. She was a single mom of a 2 year old, working part-time, living with her (then) controlling mother. Because it was so hard to find the time to see each other, we texted a lot. It got to the point where I was frustrated with not being able to see her very often, because she didn't have a babysitter and her mother wasn't speaking to her at the time (for what I now know was because of destructive behavior on my SO's part). We decided she and her daughter would move in with me as I had a spare bedroom. She wanted a commitment from me before doing so, and feeling strongly for her and considering it very serious (placing myself outside the honeymoon phase) I purposed in March.

She hated her job at the time, and I make a decent living and had some savings, so I offered to let her quit her job for a few months while she looked for something she liked better. She also expressed wanting to put her daughter in day-care, but to get the more affordable day-care, she has to be potty-trained. So I said perfect, you can take time off work for a few months and use some of that time potty-training your daughter.

We started having problems almost as soon as she moved in. Even though her 2 year old was fine sleeping on her own, most nights my SO refused to sleep in our bed with me. I tried to brush it off as us just needing time to get to know one another, but as the months went by, anytime I'd bring it up, it caused an enormous fight. The point at which I gave up was when she left after an argument one night, went to a bar without telling me (I found out later), and didn't talk to me for a few days.

It was like at 180. The person I had gotten to know and fall for in the first few months was now replaced by someone I could barely speak to without "annoying" her or setting her off. Sometimes we'd be having a pleasant night, she'd even be sleeping in our bed, and I'd make a simple joke, and that joke would turn into her crying and me having to profusely apologize. I also noticed her avoiding me on a regular basis, using books and movies as distractions from having to talk to me.

We worked through several arguments like the sleeping situations by me sitting down and setting boundaries and expressing exactly how I felt and what I needed from her. It went well and she responded well. For a few a little while.

Fast forward to June when we moved into a new place. Suddenly, instead of her daughter sleeping in her own room, she was sleeping with us every night. I bring it up. It causes a huge argument.

Arguments usually end with her not talking to me and sleeping on the couch or in her daughter's room, away from me. This happened almost every other week. One weekend, she'd be telling me how great of a dad I was to her daughter, that I was her soulmate, and asking me how I put up with her. The next weekend, she'd be calling me a horrible father to her 2 year old, that I was a terrible person, and then wouldn't talk to me for the rest of the day, often taking a few days to a week to get over it.

In our good moments, where she has clarity, I can discuss anything with her and she responds well. I often use these times to bring up some of her harsher moments, before I knew it might be BPD, just to get answers, and would often to be met with her not really even remembering those moments. Or asking me to not bring them up.

She's always wants space. I'll get home from work, and she'll immediately go to our room to read. If she does stay out of bed, I'll initiate conversation and be met with annoyance. If I ask any question, she'll roll her eyes and respond harshly. In a clear moment, I asked her why and she says that most questions make her feel uncomfortable, like she's being put on the spot and gets anxiety. Over a simple question like "what did you do today?"

I gave her access to one of my credit cards, and she's constantly overspending on it. I've approached her about it over 5 times, and finally, the most recent time, she felt so ashamed, she cut up the card. Yet, a few days later, she was already using it online again.

It's now October. She still isn't working, despite that I bring up that money is tight. Originally I told her a few months to find something she liked and get her daughter potty-trained. She hasn't even looked for a job since leaving hers in March. After I set boundaries about not using the credit card anymore last week, we had a great week. She finally potty-trained her daughter. But then this week, we had a huge fight and now her daughter is back in diapers.

She's diagnosed depressive, taking Prozac, Xanax, and Welbutrin. She tried to get off Prozac on her own once and we spent three weeks being more distant than we've ever been, with her irritability and unwillingness to even get out of bed finally forcing her to get back on it.

What finally brought me to this website was confusion at the whole situation. How we could be so perfect together one week and then out of nowhere, be completely pulled apart. Even if she's completely in the wrong on any given situation, she'll turn it on me, and make me a bad guy. I got in the mind set of thinking, "maybe I am a bad guy" even though people have been telling me I'm a nice guy for my entire life. And finally I broke through it and was realized she victimizing herself.

Now, I don't want to be quick to label her with BPD, because there's so much at play here. I've thought, well is she using me to give her daughter a better life? Is she just manipulative? She's had a history of drug abuse, and I often wonder what part that's played on her psyche.

I'm also aware of some red flags in myself, being oversensitive to many things and co-dependent at times. I've pushed a lot of my other relationships away, being consumed by this one. She makes me feel bad for even wanting to go to the movies, but then quickly realizes she's being unreasonable, and then won't let me stay in the house, even if I want to. It's this constant pushing-pulling between independence and needing me close. If I give her too much space, she asks why I don't love her anymore. Some nights, if I even go to bed at the same time as her, she says "we don't always need to go to bed together".

I've been through most of the first-timer articles on the site, and a lot of it feels like BPD to me, but I guess I'd like an outsiders opinion. I don't want to abandon the relationship, not yet, so please leave those comments out for now. I'm happy to answer any additional questions or clarify anything.

Thanks in advance.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[haskellch]

Some other things I guess I left out is she only really has one close friend. The rest she puts the blame on them for why they aren't friends anymore. Also, her temperament changes with the flip of a switch. Once at Disneyland, she threatened to leave with her daughter and that I would not see them for the rest of the day. Just because I told her I didn't appreciate the way she talked to me while helping discipline her daughter... .Something she's asked me to help with on many occasions.

[unicorn2014]

Hi   haskelich and welcome to BPD family!   That's a quite a story you have there, a fiancee with BPD or BPD traits and a 2 year old child. <phew> makes me tired just thinking about it!   Are you in kind of therapy or recovery group for yourself? You mentioned that your fiancee has a history of substance abuse. Do you  belong to any recovery groups for friends and family members of alcoholics or addicts? That sounds like a lot to be handling on your own. There are a lot of great resources on this board. I first started learning about BPD by reading books. What have your read on the subject?

[haskellch]

Hi unicorn2014,

Thank you for welcoming me. I'm not in therapy yet, but after what I've read on multiple websites, I'll be looking into it very soon. I don't belong to any recovery groups because like I mentioned, I just recently stumbled upon all of this. Her previous substance abuse wasn't a problem until I saw it listed as a contributing factor to BPD. Once she had her daughter, she quit doing drugs and as far as I'm aware, hasn't done anything serious since.

I will be continuing to check out this board for the resources and will likely be looking into some reading material, like "Stop Walking On Eggshells". I guess I just wanted to make sure that it sounded like BPD to others before I jumped into anything. Didn't want to jump to any conclusions without getting some opinions.

[haskellch]

I'd also like to post a link to the message board conversations that actually turned me on to this website, as I found them very helpful, especially the comments from the user "Uptown"

www.talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/62662-wife-constantly-puts-me-down-then-blames-me-her-behavior.html

www.talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell-2.html#post473522


And especially this specific response:

Re: My list of hell!

MaybeItsMe, I agree with Pidge that the behavior you are describing are classic traits of BPD, which my exW has. These include the verbal abuse, temper tantrums, inappropriate anger, lack of impulse control, constant blaming, always being "the victim," black-white thinking, and a cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back. Only a professional can determine whether those traits are so severe as to satisfy all of the diagnostic criteria for having full blown BPD.

Yet, for the purposes of deciding whether to remain married to her, you don't need to know whether her traits surpass the diagnostic threshold. Even when those traits fall well short of that threshold, they can make your life miserable and destroy a marriage. Moreover, strong BPD traits are easy to identify when occurring in a woman you've known for 11 years. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about behavior such as verbal abuse and temper tantrums. I caution, however, that BPD traits are not something that would have appeared only in the last few years. They are persistent. When you were dating, they would have disappeared during the infatuation period but would have resurfaced as the infatuation evaporated. You therefore should have started seeing red flags for this behavior after the honeymoon period ended.

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She is unhappy most days mainly with me and our relationship

If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she has been unhappy since childhood. Making her happy is not your responsibility and, even if it were, it would be impossible to do. Only SHE can make herself happy. Hence, if you want a happy wife, you have to marry a woman who is already happy and emotionally healthy. It took me 15 years to learn that.



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She seems to see things as right or wrong with no ability to give leeway or explain away a mistake.

That is called "black-white thinking" (aka, "all-or-nothing thinking". It will show up as her claiming you "never" or "always" do such and such. It also is evident in the way she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad." Moreover, she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in only ten seconds -- based only on an innocuous remark or minor infraction.

B-W thinking occurs in BPDers because they are extremely uncomfortable with ambiguities and mixed feelings and with cognitive dissonance (where one part of your mind believes something contradicting what is believed in another part of your mind). A BPDer therefore shoehorns her perceptions of other peoples' intentions and motivations into a B-W dichotomy -- not seeing that real people live in the gray area in between those polar extremes. This is why strong BPD traits are said to constitute a "thought distortion." This is true to a lesser degree, by the way, for all of us. Every time you get intense feelings (e.g., infatuation or anger) your judgement of other peoples' intentions becomes distorted -- which is you try to wait until you cool off before making decisions or taking actions.

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She is always angry and easily provoked

A BPDer carries enormous anger, hurt, and shame inside just under the skin. This is carried from early childhood, when damage was done to her emotional core. Hence, you don't have to do a thing -- not one thing -- to create the anger. It is always there. You only have to say or do sdome minor thing that TRIGGERS the anger that is already there. It will suddenly be released in ten seconds.

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I walk around on egg shells!

Of course you do, being married to an emotional time bomb. That is why the #1 best selling BPD book (targeted to nonBPD spouses like you) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

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She is picky and overly critical of me.

A BPDer is convinced she always is "the victim." Because she has a weak, fragile sense of who she is, the strongest thread of a self image usually is that false notion of being a victim. A BPDer therefore maintains a death grip on that false self image and will tolerate living with you only if you continue to validate it by playing one of two roles.

The first role is being "the savior," a role you played during the infatuation period lasting about 3 to 6 months. During that period, she thought you were perfect and that -- unlike all previous BFs -- you would save her from her unhappiness. The implication of your being "the savior," of course, is that she must be a victim in need of saving. Sadly, that illusion quickly evaporates along with the infatuation.

Since the honeymoon ended, there is only one role left for you to play: being "the perpetrator." As long as you keep allowing her to blame you for every misfortune that befalls her, she will keep you around because you are validating her false self image of being "the victim." Once you leave her, she will be telling people how awful you were -- just the way she talks about the BFs she had before you. She is the victim. They are all considered to be perpetrators.

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99 good things in the week are overshadowed by the 1 mistake I have made

This is one of the hallmarks of having strong BPD traits -- the feeling of entitlement to all the sacrifices you make and the inability to have a lasting appreciation. Because a BPDer cannot control her emotions, she experiences feelings every day that are so intense that they push aside all the good feelings she had before about you. This is why it is impossible, with a BPDer, to build up a store of appreciation and good will on which to draw during the hard times. Trying to do so is as futile as building a sandcastle beside the sea. It will be washed aside by the next emotional tide flowing through her mind.

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She quotes me incorrectly, I try to tell her that’s not what I said, she doesn't argue about it but she will always come back to the quote and it goes in a huge circle again. It seems as if she is stuck in a loop.

A BPDer is not good at intellectually challenging her intense feelings. Instead, she is convinced that any feeling that is that intense MUST be right. She therefore will produce whatever rationalization that pops into her head to justify the feeling. This is why a BPDer will often make such ridiculous "arguments" that you simply marvel any adult can say such a thing while keeping a straight face. If I challenged my exW's allegations, for example, she would either replace that argument with another that is equally ludicrous -- or eventually loop back to the original argument as you describe.

This is what happens when you try to argue with a woman who, although very intelligent and knowledgeable, has the emotional development of a four year old. In effect, you are trying to argue with the very angry little girl that is control of her mind. The logical adult part of her mind is being "split off," placed out of reach of her conscious mind. You therefore cannot carry on a calm, rational discussion about any sensitive topic because you have only ten seconds to do so. In that short time, any attempt to discuss sensitive matters will trigger her anger, bringing her child back into the driver's seat. And, with a BPDer, nearly ever issue is considered a "sensitive" issue.

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I can't criticise her in any way no matter how I sugar coat it

Like I said, you have ten seconds before the kid is in charge. It therefore does not matter -- at all -- that you have caught her in a calm, apparently receptive mood. And she is so super-sensitive to perceived infractions, she may even take offense at the sugar coating itself (thinking you are talking down to her). The statements and actions that will trigger a release of her anger consist of anything that she interprets as posing a threat to her two great fears: abandonment and engulfment (from intimacy). Because you never know what trivial thing will trigger one fear or the other, you are always walking on eggshells.

Your predicament is made all the worse by the fact that the two fears are at opposite ends of the same spectrum. This means that, as you back away from one fear to avoid triggering it, you will necessarily be drawing closer to triggering the other fear. For example, when you had a very intimate evening or great weekend together, you likely found her -- the next morning -- creating an argument out of nothing to push you away. For a BPDer, intimacy is experienced as suffocating and engulfing, making her feel as though she is losing her identity by merging into your strong personality. It is a frightening experience in which she feels she is vanishing into thin air. She therefore will feel that you are somehow "controlling" and dominating her (nevermind that she is the controlling one).

Yet, as you back way to give her breathing room, you will eventually trigger her great fear of abandonment. It may take days or weeks for that to occur but, unless the BPDer has split you black permanently, it likely will occur. At that point, she will return behaving extra caring and sweet to pull you back into the R. This is why one hallmark of a BPDer relationship is cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back.

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When we do have a good time she will later belittle it and say its not good enough or is crap that we only enjoy those activity’s

Yes, that is the way emotionally unstable people behave. As I said, a BPDer's feelings are so intense that they MUST be true -- so she will ignore all facts to the contrary and she will not hesitate to rewrite history in her mind. If this seems strange, keep in mind that you and I do the same thing every time we experience intense feelings. We therefore differ from BPDers only in degree, not in kind. Indeed, during our childhood, we behaved that way all day long. Even during high school, we likely had some strong BPD traits left. That is why therapists usually wait until a person is at least 18 before trying to diagnose BPD.

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She has to have what ever it is she wants ... .unable to control her spending.

Being unable to control or regulate her emotions, a BPDer has little impulse control. It therefore is common to see a BPDer acting impulsively. Moreover, because she has no stable self image to guide her, she will be wildly interested in something one day and then quickly lose interest. My exW, for example, would love a new purchase for a week or two and then totally lose interest in it. Her mother was the same way -- she would love our gifts for two weeks and then exchange them at the store because they were the wrong size, wrong shape, or wrong color. Similarly, my exW spent $5,000 on fabric and $6,000 on sewing machines. In 15 years, she made one blouse, one dress, one vest, and a cat collar. And I bought her a $3,500 piano she desperately wanted -- but she played it only five times.

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Pushes other people away, she can't keep friends for more than 12 months (none of them turned up to our wedding)

A high functioning BPDer typically gets along fine with acquaintenances, business colleagues, and total strangers. None of those folks pose a threat because there is no relationship to abandon -- and no intimacy to engulf her. Lord help them, however, if they make the mistake of trying to draw close and form a close business relationship or lasting friendship. Then they will start triggering her two great fears. And, like you, they will find that there is no "Goldilocks position" midway between the two polar extremes where they can safely avoid triggering her anger. This is why BPDers typically have no long term close friends unless they live a long distance apart.

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No real empathy for others.

The lack of empathy is another BPD trait. IME, a high functioning BPDer can have great empathy at times, especially for total strangers and others posing no threat. She will not be able to maintain it consistently, however, and cannot be empathetic while splitting loved ones as "black." This is why it is common to see some high functioning BPDers in caregiving professions where they are nursing or doctoring folks with much care all day long -- and then they will go home that night and abuse the very people who love them.

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I think am starting to struggle to cope, my ability to keep my mind straight has reduced, I some times can't remember my drive to work, its as if I have the entire drive missing from my memory,

MaybeItsMe, that is called "splitting," a form of dissociation.It occurs when one part of your mind is put out of touch with the other parts. It happens many times a day to everyone -- every time a person is daydreaming, for example. It also occurs -- as you observe -- when we are driving and suddenly realize that we cannot recall a single thing about the last ten miles, not even the three lighted intersections we drove through. Another example is walking into the kitchen and, as you open the refrigerator door, suddenly realizing you have no idea what you were coming to get. This is splitting.

While your subconscious was carefully driving you through three intersections or walking you to the kitchen, your conscious mind was a thousand miles away thinking about something else. Although we all do it, BPDers do it far more than the rest of us to escape their painful realities. Not surprisingly, when a man has been living with a BPDer many years, it is common for him to start adopting many of her behavioral traits. Moreover, your depression can cause you to escape your reality in that manner. This is why depressed folks don't even want to get out of bed. They escape by lying around and living in their daydreams.

[haskellch]

(continued)

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When it is going good (it lasts for about 1 week normally) its fantastic and she is a really lovely person.

Yes, while a BPDer is splitting you white, she is very VERY good. At that time, you likely will see a warmth of expression and emotional purity that otherwise is seen only in children. My exW, for example, was so immediately likeable and disarming that, within a half hours, total strangers would feel like they had known her for months. The highs of being split white and the lows of being split black are comparable to the highs and lows of heroine usage and withdrawal. This is one reason why a relationship with a BPDer quickly can become so toxic and addictive, especially for excessive caregivers like you and me. Our problem is that our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). Indeed, we have difficulty feeling that we are truly loved if the woman does not also desperately need us. This is why you are at risk, when leaving your W, of running into the arms of another woman just like her.

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I call her every day to make sure she is ok in work and tell her I love her. I look after the dog... .give her back rubs, foot rubs, look after her when she is ill and I would never ever cheat on her.

As I said, you are a caregiver like me. Normal guys (who have strong personal boundaries) will leave a BPDer within a year after the infatuation period ends. We caregivers, however, will stay for years -- 15 in my case -- being convinced that, if we can only figure out what it is we are doing wrong, we can restore our loved one to that perfect "soul mate" we saw at the beginning. Sadly, that is an impossible task. And the "soul mate" we saw was largely an illusion. As I explain in other threads, it is mostly the result of "mirroring" that the BPDer does when infatuated.

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Its very much like living with Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

It is common for a partner or spouse of a BPDer to feel like he is living with a person who is half way to having a multiple personality disorder. That is the feeling you get when living with an emotionally unstable person. You would not get that feeling if you were living with a narcissist because a narcissist is stable and predictable.

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She is still here but said she's too tired to pack tonight and will go tomorrow.



As the years go by, a BPDer becomes increasingly resentful of your failure to make her happy -- an impossible task. This is why BPDers typically leave their spouses after 12 to 15 years (15 years in my case). Yet, until they reach that point, they usually keep coming back after they leave because they loath being alone. Being unstable, they have a strong desire to be around someone with a strong, stable personality who will ground them -- serving as an emotional anchor. This tendency of BPDers to keep pulling you back after pushing you away is why the #2 best selling BPD book is called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me.

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There’s a chance that maybe I am totally insane and this is a very warped view of what is really going on. I really do hope it is me going mad because I know that I can fix that!

Yes, there is a chance. Yet, as Pidge said, it is very common for the partners and spouses of BPDers to feel like they may be losing their minds. Indeed, therapists see far more of the spouses coming in to find out if they are crazy than they ever see of the BPDers (who are loath to go to a therapist). If you were living with a sociopath or narcissist, you would be abused and feel depressed and miserable. You would not feel "crazy," however. Of the ten personality disorders, BPD is the ONLY ONE that is notorious for making a large share of the nonBPD partners start questioning their own sanity.

BPDers have extreme emotions, which lead them to actions that can range from puzzling to brutal. This makes living with them painful and confusing. They can't deal with the reality of their behaviors. On some level they realize how hurtful they are, yet accepting this major flaw in themselves is just too painful to a person who already has self loathing. The last thing a BPDer wants to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things she hates about herself. So she will "spin" your reality to make hers less painful.

One of the most common defense mechanism they use is projection, where she will attribute her shortcomings and mistakes to you. As I said above, you become "the perpetrator," a trashcan in which she can dispose of all guilt and mistakes. This is why you should not tell her that she has strong BPD traits. If your W has strong traits, she will project the accusation back onto you, believing that you are the one having such traits.

This spinning of reality is so well known to the partners and spouses of BPDers that they have given it a name: "gaslighting." It is named after the classic 1944 movie, Gaslight, in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy so as to get her institutionalized, allowing him to run off with her family jewels. One of his many tricks is to turn the house gas lights down a tiny bit every day -- all the while claiming that he sees and reads just fine.

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Can anyone help me understand what's going on here? My wife is leaving and I don't really know why.

MaybeItsMe, if this discussion rings a bell, I have several suggestions. First, I suggest you get a copy of the Stop Walking on Eggshells mentioned above. Another excellent book by the same author is Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist.

It is important to read more about the nine BPD traits so as to be able to recognize the red flags. This is especially important for caregivers like us because we are so empathetic -- and have such low personal boundaries -- that we have great difficulty distinguishing the problems of our loved one from our own. Hence, when you get a clearer understanding of your W's issues, you will find it much easier -- by subtraction -- to see your codependency issues.

Second, while you are waiting for the book, I suggest you read more about typical BPDer behavior in Blacksmith's thread about his wife. My posts there begin at Complicated Marriage Dynamic. You may want to also check out Berilo's painful experiences with his wife. My posts there start at Distressed.

Third, if those descriptions of typical BPDer behavior sound very familiar, I suggest you visit a clinical psychologist by yourself -- for at least a session or two -- to confirm what it is you are dealing with. Even if your W were going to a therapist, relying on her therapist for advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney during the divorce. Her therapist is not your friend. He is bound by professional ethics to protect his sick client (which will be her, even if you attend some of the sessions). I mention this because therapists are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder -- for reasons I've discussed at length in other threads.

Fourth, MaybeItsMe, I suggest that you start participating -- or, at least, lurking -- at bpdfamily.com, which is the most active BPD site I've found that is targeted solely to the partners of BPDers. There you will be able to read the shared experiences of hundreds of guys who have fallen in love with BPDers. They can give you valuable tips on leaving because divorcing a BPDer usually gets very nasty very quick. They tend to be mean and vindictive when they are splitting you black, as you well know. Finally, I urge you to start taking better care of YOURSELF for a change, Caregiver.

[notlettinggo]

sounds very much like I what I was going through. I quit one job (which wasn't a bad thing) because I was told, she felt like she didn't have a girlfriend. We spent more time together. Than, out of nowhere I get told she can't be a relationship right now. She's in constant pain (cervical stenosis, fibromyalgia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar, recovering alcoholic). That having sex made her hurt and she felt hollow inside herself. I understood the pain, so I never pushed the subject of sex. She seemed normal and I was working on trying to distance myself emotionally.

She would say things like "you hate me don't you?" and then we'd snuggle and she'd whisper, "I miss you."

Right now, we had an argument last night after making love the night before. I got told I was needy, clingy, immature, childish, and I smothered her. I never initiated the sex, she asked me to come over. Than, she wasn't feeling well the next day and I had texted and messaged her a few times to see how she was. I noticed the night I got home after leaving her house that she had deleted my photo from her FB and she accused me of stalking her FB. That she wasn't going to be my experiment. Which I am still confused over. And a host of other things.

It's hard when the person who you love and just want to give the world too, suddenly and without logic turns on you and says hurtful things. Sad, I will always love her and I was fully ready to educate myself and give myself the tools to continue when she left. And gave me no choice.