Object Constancy, Enmeshment

[Turkish]

We've had joint custody since their mom moved out coming up on two years ago. We see the kids every 2 and 3 days.

The kids have recently been on this kick where they miss Mommy. First, it was D3 (quite a change from the first 8 months after her mom moved out and then D1-2 didn't even ask about her). Now S5 has started in on it. Last night he said that he and his sister could go stay with Mommy, and their little brother and sister could stay with me. Kind of an odd thing to say, but I could understand what he was talking about. Kind of creative, if weird.

This morning, S5 had a first trimester celebration at school. I showed up with D3 and her mom rushes over with the camera to take a picture of our D, then sits down and takes several selfies with her, gushing as if it were weeks since she saw her rather than yesterday afternoon. I've never been keen on selfies anyway, but a friend long ago observed, "it's like she can never take pictures of the kids by themselves. She always has to insert herself in the picture." Another friend also observed that. Since radically changing it three weeks ago (cut and dye), their mom also changed her hair color again. I know this reflects changes in mood, or inner turmoil. It's her coping mechanism.

I know there is no alienation going on, but it's like both kids are "turning" more towards here. I have no frame of reference based upon my own BPD childhood as the single kid of a single mother, with no other relatives. I just don't know what's normal.

[unicorn2014]

Turkish, I would say again trust your instincts on this one.

May I ask why you have joint custody instead of sole custody?

[Turkish]

Turkish, I would say again trust your instincts on this one.

May I ask why you have joint custody instead of sole custody?

No compelling reason to at the time, though it crossed my mind. I would have had to file the day she moved out and left me with the kids for two days. There was no overt danger to the kids, just neglect, which would have been hard to prove, and probably not actionable. There are far worse stories in our 'hood.

I found it better to negotiate the custody order (with a lawyer behind me) with her personally. By the book. In some ways, it's still a father-daughter relationship (though I like to think of her more like my wayward little sister). Let's just say that she likes me better than I like her. It's been working so far, so much that she volunteers to me information on her side that I certainly wouldn't in the same position.

[unicorn2014]

Are you saying there's a DD/lg aspect to you r/s with your ex?

Is there an age disparity?

The reason I'm asking about sole custody is I think it might make your situation easier, in some ways. You and I seem to have something  in common in terms of not having a lot of  resources to help with parenting . It is possible to be successful at sole custody under those circumstances.

[Ulysses]

That's hard.  My T told me, before my divorce, that my exNPD/BPDh would go through cycles.  There would be times where he was superdad.  It was so helpful to hear that.  He is in a superdad phase right now, and it's hard.  I feel like he is alienating the children from me.  My S12 used to call and text me, now he doesn't want to talk to me when he's at his dad's.  I take both kids to therapy every week and it's been helpful because I feel like I'm getting support about this.  The school counselor for my D7 also has helped some.  I don't know what to do, except stay calm, have faith, and wait for it to pass.  Sometimes I sit back and wait to see what the next cycle will bring.  That's on a good day.  Other days it gets to me and I cry.  Do you think taking your kids to therapy would help?  Do you feel what your ex-wife does (e.g. with the selfies) is harming your children, or your relationship with your children?

[Turkish]

unicorn: I'm 11 years older. There was nothing at the time harsh enough that would have justified me going for majority custody (though if I were a mom,.I would have). O just had a text conversation with her about S5 and his anger, validation issues. I ass on as much as I can, learned from here. She is receptive.

Ulysses: S5 is supposed to see the school counselor soon, due to two biting incidents he's had within the past month. We'll see what they say.

[bravhart1]

When my SD7 began to ask and miss mom out of the blue, it ended up being the start of the alienation. BPDm was stressing to SD7 by telling her how much she misses her when she "had" to go to dads house. How she cried herself to sleep each night, etc. BPDm uses her daughter as a comfort, and companion.

At first we were puzzled by the change in requests for phone calls by both mom and SD, then it turns out the calls were to remind SD how poorly mom was doing while she was with dad. SD also got in trouble when returning to moms if no phone call happened, which seems pretty harsh on a child with no control over her ability to make a call on her own. She even began to go to the office at school to ask if she could call mom from there. therapist said it was best if no phone calls happened as they were interfering with dads time and preventing SD from being allowed to be happy at dads. Mom did not agree of course.

It's very important that mom be made to understand she must give the children permission to enjoy their time with dad, not to worry about mom, or feel as though they are betraying her. Anything else becomes a slippery slope of alienation and stress for the kids.

[Turkish]

When my SD7 began to ask and miss mom out of the blue, it ended up being the start of the alienation. BPDm was stressing to SD7 by telling her how much she misses her when she "had" to go to dads house. How she cried herself to sleep each night, etc. BPDm uses her daughter as a comfort, and companion.

It's very important that mom be made to understand she must give the children permission to enjoy their time with dad, not to worry about mom, or feel as though they are betraying her. Anything else becomes a slippery slope of alienation and stress for the kids.

Hmmm. This might be it. Not a Witch or Queen engaging in active alienation, but the Waif, needing to be emotionally rescued. Even my T said early in the summer, "do you think it's good for her to spend more time with the kids?"

I knew what he was saying, but I also had that feeling like "kids need their mom, so what's wrong with that?" auto-FOG.

Had a short text convo last night, discussing S5's emotional triggers, giving examples on how I handled them. Two meltdowns before bed time last night 

This new behavior seems to coincide with she telling me about her severe depression in September, which I would have never picked up on except for the drastic change in hair style, which I found odd. I'll have to think about this and see if I can talk to her about what's going on. Maybe it's better to let it be for now, watch the kids, and let her come to me to volunteer information as she did last time.

[livednlearned]

Even my T said early in the summer, "do you think it's good for her to spend more time with the kids?"

I knew what he was saying, but I also had that feeling like "kids need their mom, so what's wrong with that?" auto-FOG.  

You're the adult in the relationship. When the kids spend time with their mom, it's probably more like hanging out with a young teen ager. Maybe younger.

Be cautious about overcompensating -- you may feel a deep-rooted desire to speak badly of mom, and so you over compensate for that urge. Overcompensating then confirms for you that you aren't alienating the kids. Meanwhile, that moves them closer to mom, which can be stressful for her, which trickles down to the kids.

My T pointed out that spending too much time with S14 was stressful for N/BPDx. Even during the worst scares when I thought N/BPDx would leave the state with S14, I knew, deep down, that he was in no shape to handle the responsibility.

When custody went down to 8 hours a week, no overnights, I realized that was all N/BPDx wanted to handle. I think he felt relief when overnights were stripped away.

[unicorn2014]

This new behavior seems to coincide with she telling me about her severe depression in September, which I would have never picked up on except for the drastic change in hair style, which I found odd. I'll have to think about this and see if I can talk to her about what's going on. Maybe it's better to let it be for now, watch the kids, and let her come to me to volunteer information as she did last time.

Just a little note on the drastic change in hair style, I would love to drastically change my hair style, but I don't have the money to pay for it to get dyed. I know you said you didn't have the resources to do one-on-one kid dates either. It sounds to me like someone is paying your ex's bills? Her husband, obviously, right? I just wonder if she had to fend for herself if she would be a little more functional? I know that's something you have no control over. Is it possible her current husband is enabling her?

[Turkish]

Even my T said early in the summer, "do you think it's good for her to spend more time with the kids?"

I knew what he was saying, but I also had that feeling like "kids need their mom, so what's wrong with that?" auto-FOG.  

You're the adult in the relationship. When the kids spend time with their mom, it's probably more like hanging out with a young teen ager. Maybe younger.

Yes, when S5 told me they had pillow fights with Mommy, I was incredulous. I certainly play with them, tickling and "attacking" them in bed, but we don't have slumber parties...

Be cautious about overcompensating -- you may feel a deep-rooted desire to speak badly of mom, and so you over compensate for that urge. Overcompensating then confirms for you that you aren't alienating the kids. Meanwhile, that moves them closer to mom, which can be stressful for her, which trickles down to the kids.

It feels like you've said this to me in the past... .

unicorn: my comments about the hair is just specific to her. She wrote in one of the journals she left in my house questioning herself about it, like she did it because she couldn't make herself feel differently on the inside. This time, she went something like from Chrissy to Janet from Three's Company. Then this week, fully dark to erase the blone highlights.  Or maybe I'm just jealous because I look like Mr. Clean 

What they do with their money is their business. Money isn't the issue, I just don't want to give up time with either kid, at least for now.

[unicorn2014]

Turkish: she sounds like a conservative borderline , if I could I would get my hair  cut in a  punk style and dye it an unnatural color.

I don't think you should have to give up time with either kid.

You have me wondering what's worse to coparent with: BPD or Aspd.

It sounds like you are still ok with shared custody?

[Turkish]

Turkish: she sounds like a conservative borderline , if I could I would get my hair  cut in a  punk style and dye it an unnatural color.

I don't think you should have to give up time with either kid.

You have me wondering what's worse to coparent with: BPD or Aspd.

It sounds like you are still ok with shared custody?

There isn't a compelling reason or justification to change anything. Other than she violating the order a few times, there havent been any outrageous incidents... That time has passed. By using the tools here (mostly boundaries), it's an ok r/s. Without the kids, she would be suicidal, I'm sure of it. That's why I watch. She's sworn to never go on meds, though her T has suggested it for years. She still looks up to me in a way, last night asking me what I thought we should do regarding S5. There's no reason to change that for now. It helps us all. My T observed over a year ago that she respects me, and to use it, but not over-use it.

I've supressed a lot. When she told me last month that her H understands that I would want to get to know the man hanging out with my kids, I didn't say what I wanted to about what I thought of him, despite his hyper-religious nice guy schtick. My concern is the kids. Wisemind, nit being triggered and showing anger.

A long time ago, my T said that there was nothing wrong with showing two asoectsvof love towards her: kindness and patience. It's helped her to mirror those back. Anger begets anger; with anyone, really.

[unicorn2014]

Turkish, I'm sure her now husband would be hard to face, he had an affair with her while she was still living with you? He's religious? That sounds like a very tough situation.

[Turkish]

Turkish, I'm sure her now husband would be hard to face, he had an affair with her while she was still living with you? He's religious? That sounds like a very tough situation.

I can deal with it. He's 18 years younger than I am. Though he's in better shape, and an athelete, people tell me I'm intimidating. He's been appropritely obsequious from the beginning, amusingly so in the beginning when he called me "Mr. Turkish." The sad, though maybe good, thing is that based upon a few things he's told me,.and a few things she's told me that he said to her, they guy might have better parenting instincts than her. That she limits him as a step-dad in many ways is something I wouldn't put up with as a SD, but my mouth is shut. I'm not getting into some weird triangle.

[unicorn2014]

Turkish, I'm sure her now husband would be hard to face, he had an affair with her while she was still living with you? He's religious? That sounds like a very tough situation.

I can deal with it. He's 18 years younger than I am. Though he's in better shape, and an athelete, people tell me I'm intimidating. He's been appropritely obsequious from the beginning, amusingly so in the beginning when he called me "Mr. Turkish." The sad, though maybe good, thing is that based upon a few things he's told me,.and a few things she's told me that he said to her, they guy might have better parenting instincts than her. That she limits him as a step-dad in many ways is something I wouldn't put up with as a SD, but my mouth is shut. I'm not getting into some weird triangle.

So he's 7 years younger then her?

That's interesting, my ex is 12 years younger then my SO and he's obsequious to him .

You are smart.