Their Level of Self-Awareness

[SummerStorm]

I would imagine that pwBPD who are in therapy are much more self-aware than those who aren't, but how self-aware is your pwBPD?  I know that self-aware can mean a variety of things, but what I'm most interested in is if your pwBPD realizes that there is something wrong with the way he/she does things or if they ever had any moments where they just seemed confused about things and know that something just isn't right.  

Generally speaking, mine isn't very self-aware.  She attributes most of her behaviors to the fact that she is young (23) and only recently graduated college.  She says that she still has a lot of "party girl" in her and isn't ready to settle down.  The thing is, she'll still be saying this when she's 33.  

I'll give some examples:  

1) My pwBPD knows that many of her relationships end because, as she puts it, "lust is the basis of her love."  In other words, from her perspective, she wants someone, has sex with the person, loves the person, but then quickly realizes that she loves them because she loves having sex with them.  Essentially, I think what this really is, is fear of engulfment.  When sex is just sex, everything is fine.  But as soon as sex starts to equal intimacy, she shuts down.  So, she's aware that many of her relationships end the same way, but she's not 100% clear on why that is.  

2) She also is self-aware enough to know that she has hurt people and that she will continue to hurt people.  However, the things she lists as the things that have hurt people (suicide attempts, drug use) only tell part of the story.  Those things hurt, of course, but what really hurts is the devaluation, the verbal abuse, etc.

3) She has said that she has a "broken mind," but I think she's mostly referring to her self-harm and suicide attempts.  Obviously, those things are very bad, but they are only a small piece of the puzzle.  

4) She told me once that she knows she does unacceptable things, but that she forgets that those things hurt people.    

I've seen videos and read posts from pwBPD who are pretty self-aware (probably mostly due to therapy) and have actually decided to stop dating completely until they are further along in the recovery process.

So, how self-aware is your pwBPD?    

 

[Hopeful83]

Hello SummerStorm,

Interesting thread.

I'd say my ex's self-awareness grew during the time he was with me. When I first met him he told me something along the lines of "when I'm done with someone, I don't look back, I can cut them off really easily." And he didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with that way of thinking. However, at the time I didn't see it as a because I was his first long-term, serious relationship. Everything else had been flings.

He was aware of times that he'd hurt people, and he'd sometimes cry about those things - does that count as self awareness?

When he first started to rage in the relationship he refused to see a doctor and told me he could handle it himself. But over time as it became apparent that the rages weren't going to get better, he started to acknowledge he had a problem and that he needed help. I remember one night he stayed up watching Boardwalk Empire and I think some female character gets beaten by her partner on the show. Anyway he came to bed in tears saying he never wanted to be that way with me, and that he was going to try his best to sort himself out.

Then at the end of the relationship when he told me he'd seen his 'ex' and that he couldn't stop thinking about her, he said he knew it was 'wrong' and that he was going to see a therapist about it. Well his therapist was either corrupt or an idiot because the 'analysis' he gave didn't make any sense (if he even went, I suppose).

So I guess, yes, he had self awareness, but he still wasn't willing to really face up to his issues, otherwise he would have got himself into therapy the minute he started raging with me for no apparent reason.

Hopeful.

[Little oak]

The level of self awareness my ex possessed seemed non existent,she wasn't able to understand how her actions and words hurt others or how her behaviour contributed to the demise of many aspects of her life. There were a couple of occasions where she demonstrated a very basic level of awareness,after insulting me and saying some truly hurtful things she said we all say things we don't mean. Yes we sure do all say things we don't mean but that is usually followed by an apology. One moment sticks with me when we were together she mentioned 'you just don't understand me' ... .i didn't understand her at the time. When she tried to seduce her best friends partner and my best friend her response was simply i was drunk and when I'm drunk I'm wild. In fact I've never heard the word sorry from her for anything

[hashtag_loyal]

My dBPDxgf is very self-aware, but she has been in therapy for most of her young (early 20s) life.

She understands that she lies to and cheats on (multiple times) anybody she's ever dated, and that this is why her relationships always end.

She cheats because she is "lonely" and has "abandonment issues". She admitted that this is "her problem in every relationship", but "doesn't know how to stop."

She's scared "nobody cares enough about" her, so she "sleeps around because it's a temporary fix."

(Although immediately after telling me that) she said she was "just scared for people getting too close to me, so I run away."

I'm still trying to figure out how much of that has been internalized as true personal insight, or if her ":)etached Protector" memorized that from therapy and then regurgitated the info to me. I never said anything like that to her, so it definitely wasn't mirroring.

She has a good understanding on how the absence of her father affected her, but I think she is still pretty clueless about how dysfunctional her relationship with her mother was/is. (Her therapist is a friend of her mother, so I fear this is one area that will never get addressed!)

My ex has a very good understanding of how she has hurt people, and feels very badly for doing so. Unfortunately she still just internalizes this feeling as shame, thinking that she hurts others because she is "an awful person" who is "going to hell", and not because that hurt is a direct result of the actions she chose to take.

She's in a really bad spot. I do not envy her therapist.

[Little oak]

My dBPDxgf is very self-aware, but she has been in therapy for most of her young (early 20s) life.

She understands that she lies to and cheats on (multiple times) anybody she's ever dated, and that this is why her relationships always end.

She cheats because she is "lonely" and has "abandonment issues". She admitted that this is "her problem in every relationship", but "doesn't know how to stop."

She's scared "nobody cares enough about" her, so she "sleeps around because it's a temporary fix."

(Although immediately after telling me that) she said she was "just scared for people getting too close to me, so I run away."

I'm still trying to figure out how much of that has been internalized as true personal insight, or if her ":)etached Protector" memorized that from therapy and then regurgitated the info to me. I never said anything like that to her, so it definitely wasn't mirroring.

She has a good understanding on how the absence of her father affected her, but I think she is still pretty clueless about how dysfunctional her relationship with her mother was/is. (Her therapist is a friend of her mother, so I fear this is one area that will never get addressed!)

My ex has a very good understanding of how she has hurt people, and feels very badly for doing so. Unfortunately she still just internalizes this feeling as shame, thinking that she hurts others because she is "an awful person" who is "going to hell", and not because that hurt is a direct result of the actions she chose to take.

She's in a really bad spot. I do not envy her therapist.

You make some good points hashtag... .perhaps they do have awareness of how they hurt and lie but bury it so deep inside its almost an impossible task to access. My ex made a conscious effort to keep people apart which I suspect is due to her lies and the fear of being found out. She seems to have discarded most of her friends and her main company is her younger sister,whether her friends walked away or she discarded them I don't know and don't care to know really but this is an interesting topic because whilst I didn't experience much self awareness her actions would suggest she is aware of her behaviour but as you say it gets internalised

[Gonzalo]

My ex- is aware that she has some problems (PTSD, depression, used to self-harm), but doesn't believe she has any major issues, and certainly not BPD. She believes that shouting for hours leading to days staying in separate rooms is the way a healthy relationship works, and believed that our problems all stemmed from my allegedly poor communication skills. Her life problems are mostly the result of temporary setbacks or big events like the recession, she doesn't see how her impulsiveness leads to things like bad credit. She can give other people good relationship advice, but doesn't seem able to apply it to herself, especially the 'what's the common factor in all of your relationships?' (you) bit. She posts some stuff where she ALMOST catches on to her major issues, but then dismisses it as either something she's now sorted out or as a minor thing.

Basically she has the mind and knowledge to sort out what's wrong, but her projection and distorted sense of 'healthy' conspire to keep her from seeing her issues.

[have gone nc]

This is funny to me right now... .My exBPDgf is so unaware its beyond funny. She has just told me that I finished with her because she said something I didnt agree with after 3.5 years? That the problems in our relationship is because i'm a control freak? and that she needs to sit me down and tell me about my issues before we can get back together.

Daily I read her crap and think " I've never met anyone so in denial in my whole life "

Im so aware that the only reason I sit and read this rubbish is because i'm hugely codependant which I plan to fix so this becomes like water off a ducks back to me... .

[Learning Fast]

My ex had several brief self-awareness moments (she said she had been in therapy several years ago but didn't really mention what for).  In the beginning she would say how "vulnerable" and "sensitive" she was but really didn't elaborate when probed further.  She would also say that she was going to "fall hard for me".  In retrospect it was as though she new that at some point she would enter the emotional "danger zone".  

Apologies were few and far between and rarely unsolicited.  She would sometimes catch herself in bad behavior episodes but this was by far the exception.  When I asked her if she remembered her behavior from one of the worst incidents of our relationship she said "probably not".  I think that dissociation is simply another maladaptive coping mechanism designed to bury the pain and shame.  She is mid-40s so she has been in enough relationships to know at some level that something isn't right.  The 6 year old inside her just doesn't know how to respond.

[hashtag_loyal]

You make some good points hashtag... .perhaps they do have awareness of how they hurt and lie but bury it so deep inside its almost an impossible task to access. My ex made a conscious effort to keep people apart which I suspect is due to her lies and the fear of being found out. She seems to have discarded most of her friends and her main company is her younger sister,whether her friends walked away or she discarded them I don't know and don't care to know really but this is an interesting topic because whilst I didn't experience much self awareness her actions would suggest she is aware of her behaviour but as you say it gets internalised

My theory is this: If you or I were to hurt someone, we would feel bad about (guilt) but then our response would be to put in the hard work required to make things better (sincere apology, changing behavior to make sure it doesn't happen again, etc.) However, for the pwBPD, when they find they hurt someone, they take the easy way out and just hate themselves a little bit more for it.

[hashtag_loyal]

Apologies were few and far between and rarely unsolicited.  She would sometimes catch herself in bad behavior episodes but this was by far the exception.  When I asked her if she remembered her behavior from one of the worst incidents of our relationship she said "probably not".  I think that dissociation is simply another maladaptive coping mechanism designed to bury the pain and shame.  She is mid-40s so she has been in enough relationships to know at some level that something isn't right.  The 6 year old inside her just doesn't know how to respond.

Yes! Deep down, I think most pwBPD are aware, but choose not to believe it because facing the truth is too terrible to bear.

[Schermarhorn]

"All these terrible situations that I am in are self created. It's like unintended self sabotage. Idk why I keep doing this to myself."

"It makes me feel broken. I can't do anything without ___ing it up completely."

These were the first few things she sent me after we first met each other.

Whether she actually believes this, I don't know.

[GreenEyedMonster]

My theory is this: If you or I were to hurt someone, we would feel bad about (guilt) but then our response would be to put in the hard work required to make things better (sincere apology, changing behavior to make sure it doesn't happen again, etc.) However, for the pwBPD, when they find they hurt someone, they take the easy way out and just hate themselves a little bit more for it.

After much consideration, I'm pretty sure this is what my ex is doing.  In a way, I think that removing himself from our relationship is an act of self-punishment more than anything.  If I had done something wrong, my guess is that he would have forgiven me for it long ago, but he can't seem to forgive himself.  It has been four months.  Maybe he will eventually come around, maybe not.  But right now, he just can't face his shame.

My ex is extremely self-aware and can describe his conflicted emotions, the fact that he changes his mind a lot, the fact that he is "complicated," and his ambivalence toward his family.  He has been in therapy for about three years now.  

I feel bad for him as the holidays come around; he has no family and will spend Thanksgiving eating a frozen dinner.  I'd forgive him for what he did to me, if only he'd ask.  It's easier for him to push me away and hate me and be alone.  I can see him struggling a bit with finding even friends now, since he burned bridges with all his friends when he did this.

[Learning Fast]

"I'd forgive him for what he did to me, if only he'd ask".

This is so, so, so true as we're not asking for a lot---in the way that we think.  However, for them it is a monumental task as that is a concept that to them is foreign. 

Ironically, I was just texting with my ex as she is down in FL for her daughter's lacrosse tournament.  We started with very light conversation that eventually transitioned to topics that became deeper emotionally.  I could just feel her discomfort and detachment as the texting entered her "danger zone".  She shut down at a certain point and I was left feeling as though I had been conversing initially with an adult but devolved into a dialogue with a 6 year old.

[Michelle27]

My ex became (supposedly) self aware as soon as it became real to him that I was pulling away and seriously considering ending our marriage.  Then all the right words came out.  He talked about always feeling something wrong deep down, described his rages as "holding back a boulder with a finger", admitted to gaslighting both my daughter from my first marriage and myself, lying to his family about me, knowing it was wrong when he cheated on me and more.  He even talked about being aware of how his behaviors affected me and the kids and even described several of his triggers.  Even worse, in seeking therapy (after almost a year of promising to get help after his 2nd mental health hospitalization), he started using all the right terminology learned in his CBT classes and described his appointments with the mental health intake workers (when he was trying to get into DBT).  A good friend of mine attended the same CBT classes (and had witnessed one of his rages as well as tried to be in touch with him outside of classes and had many discussions about how to move forward and internalize what they were learning.  She tells me now that nothing ever seemed genuine, either in class or out.  That most of the time he just seemed to regurgitate the right terminology without understanding it.  Sure enough, as soon as I told him I couldn't do it anymore (wait for changes after so much damage had been done), he quit everything.  All that after reassuring me that he was doing all of what he was doing for him, and NOT to keep me as it felt like to me. 

So on some level, he had to be aware enough to talk about what he did, but obviously none of it meant anything. Just another elaborate lie in his web of lies... .