disagreeing on letting uBPD MIL watch my daughter? Husband keeps asking

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am really up against the wall about this.  My MIL is not mentally stable and can't control her emotions.  I don't want my daughter to have to deal with it, it will only confuse her.  She is only 17 months.  I hate to be the b___ that refused to let a grandma watch her grandchild but I don't see it as an option.  On the other hand, my husband doesn't agree that his mother is that bad and is guilting me about it. 

[aaf17]

I am really up against the wall about this.  My MIL is not mentally stable and can't control her emotions.  I don't want my daughter to have to deal with it, it will only confuse her.  She is only 17 months.  I hate to be the b___ that refused to let a grandma watch her grandchild but I don't see it as an option.  On the other hand, my husband doesn't agree that his mother is that bad and is guilting me about it. 

[Turkish]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but she's only visiting for Thanksgiving, right? What's the story on her babysitting your 17 month old? Is this a proposed grandma "date?"

[aaf17]

Yep, and every time she comes my daughter cries thru the entire 'grandma date'.  I know because my MIL cries about it after every time.  Literally cries.  Like my daughter can control that she is afraid.  I'm about 98 % convinced I am not letting her watch her this visit.  I am trying to be reasonable, but enough is enough.  I guess I am just feeling guilty.  Why can't I ever get past feeling guilty?  My guilt is the only thing going for my MIL.  I don't know why I give into it. 

[Turkish]

So MIL cries because her gd cries? She's a baby.

I'd trust your gut on this one. Your responsibility is to your primary family, and especially to the one who can't defend herself and who is still developing into a person. It's too bad that your H seems to be on board with either not making his mother mad or sad, in effect, being responsible for her feelings. That's his business. A child, especially a toddler, should definitely not be held responsible for an adult's feelings.

My mom used to go "Waif" when she would visit and the kids would... .act like kids. "I'm surprised they still remember me!" or she'd get weird if one of the kids, when toddlers, would cry or not want to hug her.

You're under a lot of pressure here. Have you seen this?

Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”

[Moselle]

Aaf17,

Sorry to hear about your dilemma.

I'm with Turkish on this one. I've realised that pwBPD will get mad whether we take a stand or not. They condition us to do what they want by using guilt, anger anything.

Best you do what you believe is right and let the consequences follow.

Its tough, hang in there!

[aaf17]

You guys have made me feel a lot better.  A lot of the time it feels like everyone thinks its me that is the problem, when I know I should stand my ground.  I am going to hold out on letting her watch my daughter this visit and there will probably be drama but I am going to stick to it.  Turkish, I can relate a lot to what you said about your mom.  I need to let my husband deal with his own mother and not feel guilty about it. 

[Moselle]

I am going to hold out on letting her watch my daughter this visit and there will probably be drama but I am going to stick to it.

You're right there probably will be. When it happens repeat to yourself in your mind "stand your ground"  I remember that helping me when I was in the fire. The good news is that it gets easier. It really does. Hang in there Aaf17

[aaf17]

Thanks, Moselle, I am crossing my fingers time will fly this weekend!

[Stolen]

aaf,

Is your MIL diagnosed BPD, and is your husband aware/accepting of that Dx, or even that MIL "appears" to indicate as BPD?

That is a big hurdle, that the two of you are on the same page regarding MIL, otherwise you risk being triangulated. 

In my experience (two daughters, now alienated, a Witch/Queen MIL, etc), someone exhibiting undiagnosed/untreated BPD behaviors can not be trusted watching a child unsupervised.

I would go as far as suggesting you get a VAR (voice activated recorder - Sony makes a good one for around $50) and record a MIL/granddaughter session.  Yes - it sucks being forced into espionage, but your first priority is protecting your child. Follow your gut feel - I wish I had... .

[Sarah girl]

Hi there,

I can only speak from personal experience. I would never let my BPD mom watch my kids. She's only allowed to be around them when we, the parents are present. My mom's behaviour is so erradic and inconsistent, that I do believe it not only confuses our kids, it also scares them. Also, watching an adult throw a full-blown tantrum doesn't exactly set a positive example. Kids are more sensitive and impressionable than they may seem. You are the parent. If you are not comfortable with letting your child be watched by your mil, it's your right to refuse. The issue of course, is that your husband isn't on board. Would it be acceptable if mil spent time with your lo in your presence?

I can tell you that exposure to my mom has caused huge problems in our los over the years. I would not wish the same upon anybody.

[aaf17]

Hi, Stolen and Sarah girl, no she is not diagnosed.  The oldest son who is NC tried to get her to go to therapy, but she stopped going.  Also no, my husband thinks she is crazy but in a harmless sense.  Not in my opinion, which is the whole cause of more arguing.  I just feel anxious about the idea of her watching her.  I just got off the phone from my husband who brought up her watching my daughter 'again'.  This is a daily thing that I have to hear.  "Why won't you let her spend time with her grandparents?"  "It isn't right that you don't let them have any alone time."  Ect Ect.  In the end I don't care what they think of me. I have been trying to do everything in the most polite and brief way and no one seems to notice I could say a LOT more.  So if it comes off that I am a crazy mom with separation anxiety I don't care I just don't want them alone together.

[Panda39]

aaf17,

Go with your gut on this one.  Sounds like Hubby is in the FOG.

Panda39

[Stolen]

"grandparents"  - can you describe the grandpa part of the dynamic?  Just curious, not that it should have any bearing on your intuition - at all.

In my case FIL was a spineless enabler. Zero protection for my Ds.  If pushed on it he would just claim ignorance.  And he was right!

[Seoulsister]

Stick to your guns! Don't compromise on your little one's safety. We have a very similar situation, it isn't safe to leave our child alone with my in-laws. They brought up overnights and babysitting a dozen or so times and didn't take the hint when the subject was changed, so my husband did finally tell FIL that it wasn't going to happen. He did say they're more than welcome to spend lots of time with their grandchild, but one of us would have to be there. I'm not sure how FIL sugar coated that for MIL or if he told her at all but we didn't get her habitual hysterically crying phone call and they stopped asking.

MIL is BPD and bipolar and was so unstable this spring that FIL talked about hospitalizing her. To further complicate matters, he has health problems himself which sometimes require immediate medical attention. I'm not willing to take the chance that both could be unstable at the same time in the presence of our child!

[sammy1212]

No! You are totally right.  I talked to a therapist about this type of situation and she told me that all that matters is my daughters safety. Not the feelings of other people. Good luck!

[aaf17]

Today is the day.  My MIL and my brother in law are flying in this afternoon.  Of course it is while my husband is at work so I have to pick them up and entertain them all by myself. My daughter is having an especially difficult time with separation anxiety this week, but it will work in my favor because now it will be pretty obvious that I can't leave her alone with the MIL.  I am going to take all of your advice and stick to my guns about this.

  I do know that I can say that all I want right now, but once they get here there is going to be a lot of FOG pressure.  I am going to do the best to not show my annoyance and be non bias during this visit.  I know she is going to walk in here acting like she is a doting old grandma who just wants to see her grandbaby and in a day turn into a hysterical public crier who asks my husband constantly why I am 'mad' at her.  Then she will go raging to her hotel room threatening to leave.  I know all of this and I am going to use all my willpower to not show any emotion to it.  Wish me luck.

[Turkish]

Have you looked over the validation tools here? They may not change the ending (she likely retreating to a hotel), but combined with consistent and firm boundaries, they may help...

[aaf17]

I did read what you suggested, although I am not sure how good I would be at it.  My husband has been making me promise to be on my best behavior and not respond to anything she says that offends me.  I will try to use validation, but maybe only in moderation.  I feel more comfortable not saying anything.  I did notice that was how I tried to be before she started to attack me about my parenting.  When I was using validation it was more like she tried to tell me things she felt guilty about.  (Like having a cat and it had a flea on it so she had it put to sleep)  I would have wanted to be able to talk to her about things but when she says things like that I can't validate how she is feeling.  Does that make any sense?  It just makes me more put out at having to spend time with her.  Does that make me sound like a terrible person?  I don't want her to 'open up' with any more terrible stories. 

[Turkish]

It would be hard to validate the feelings behind the cat story, even if validation doesn't involve approval of actions. That sounds triggering. 

[aaf17]

What do you mean by triggering?  Sorry, I am unfamiliar with a lot of terms still.      Like I am a trigger or she is trying to trigger me?

[Turkish]

Killing a cat because it has fleas would trigger disgust in me.

[Ulysses]

Hi aaf17,

I didn't read through all of the posts, so maybe someone has said it already.  Maybe you might consider getting counseling with someone experienced in BPD.  I'm worried when you say you feel like the one with the problem, especially when you stand your ground.  I went through similar issues with my exMIL and my children.  My mother witnessed the abusive behavior toward my S, then 5, and came to the hospital to tell me.  I had just given birth (difficult C-section, was on a lot of medication), but my mom was quite alarmed with what she witnessed my exMIL looking like as she screamed at my S in public (purple face, nostrils flared, same look I got from my exH about4 years later).  I feel for you.  Please get support for yourself.  My instincts were right about my MIL but I didn't want to be "disagreeable."  She ended up financing my exH affair, befriending his then affair partner, welcoming her to the family before I even knew anything about the affair.  She asked me to clean her 3 cats' litter boxes while she was out of town and my exH was on his third trip to see his affair partner.  A trip his mother paid for and booked on her computer.  Maybe when your child naps you'll want to read Alice Miller's Drama of the Gifted Child.  2 T recommended it to me.

My S played violently for the first time ever after having been screamed at and called names by my MIL.  Called himself the names she had used.  It took me 2 months of "de-programming" him.  I could go on about S and D's treatment by exMIL, and exH refusal to talk things out with his mother when I wanted to say here are our standards of care (e.g. no name calling).  I wish I'd gotten counseling at that point.

Please listen to your gut, stand your ground with good will and patience, and know that you are your child's only mother.  If you make a mistake, it's ok.  But you don't have to parent the way your MIL wants to you to.  If she cries, empathize but don't be fooled by the victim card.  Perhaps have some cautious concern silently, and reflect on it with a therapist, if your H won't discuss things with you and his mother, or won't see what his mother does.

[Ulysses]

My husband has been aking me promise to be on my best behavior and not respond to anything she says that offends me.

Um, this kind of worries me too.  I had that pressure.  Now I wish that I had stated whatever I wanted to, politely, and let the chips fall where they may.  Your MIL is responsible for her behavior, not you.  If you're offended and say so kindly, and even are able to use the techniques here, and she leaves crying, that's on her, not you.  I'm willing to admit my judgment may be heavily clouded by my personal experience, but I do wish I hadn't chosen to be silent at many of my exMIL's shenanigans.  Although, as my kids got older and heard her ridiculous family stories, with her laughing at how mean she was to her younger sister, or how it was so much fun to play on railroad tracks and trestles (wth?), I did start speaking up.  I didn't want my children to think I approved of her actions.

Btw, how do you feel about promising to not speak up if something bothers you?

Do you keep a journal to keep a record of goings-on?

A tape recorder might be interesing, so you have proof of how you sound, and don't have to rely on others' interpretations.  Sounds paranoid, but if you are being gaslighted, it can help.

You're busy with a toddler.  Listen to your gut and seek outside support.