Should I uphold this boundary?

[formflier]

  I wish I could try an experiment with him where I didn't contact him until I missed him, but I could never do that with him. It would really hurt and offend him.  

               Stop wishing  It is his choice to be hurt or offended.  Taking space is not an offensive thing.  If anyone on here disagrees, please speak up.  If your SO wants to be hurt and offended, he can do that.  Not your concern.  Take back the power over fulfilling your needs                

FF

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[unicorn2014]

Grey Kitty, he's the one who texted me after DBT, I didn't text him. I'm not responsible for the fact he texted me.

If I could take enough space.

He whined to me about how I used to contact him after I got out of DBT.

I told him I was doing a chat and I couldn't multitask and I texted him as soon as I could.


Right, and he's the one who contacted me, I didn't contact him. 

There is also a theme in your posts of "putting things on him that belong to you".

It's about figuring out what is on your side of the street and then keeping your side of the street clean.

You are in charge of your communication.  100%.  Let him text you all day long.  Let him text, facetime, send smoke signals, carrier pigeons, and send sky writing planes... .all at the same time.

It's your communication, your eyes, your ears.  If what you hear is unpleasant, you control it.  End of story

Note:  I realize this is hard stuff.  I used to think I "had to" because someone else communicated to me. 

There is no if you could take space.  You can.  If you don't have space, it is a decision you are making.

FF

I hear you FF and that sounds like perfect fodder for radical acceptance for me. He's going to text me, call me, even when I don't feel like talking to him. I wish I could text him back and say "I don't feel like texting right now, I need to process what happened in DBT". Perhaps next time I will be able to say that. Thank you for staying on message with me. That is kind of the lesson I think I need to learn at this point, I don't need to respond to everything he says even if that means he's going to dysregulate because I ignored him.

[unicorn2014]

And that is the sort of thing I suggest for you--be aware of your own emotions and moods, and end your contact when you know you are only going to make things worse.

The mood will pass, and you can reconnect later.

You know, he used to take 90 minutes after therapy to process his emotions. I could tell him I need to take some time to process my emotions just like he took some time to process his. I had told him before DBT that I didn't want to share about radical acceptance because that meant having to talk about our relationship so of course after DBT he asked me what I talked about. I told him I talked about a situation with my daughter, which was true.

[formflier]

[ That is kind of the lesson I think I need to learn at this point, I don't need to respond to everything he says even if that means he's going to dysregulate because I ignored him.  

                  He dysregulated because he can't control his emotions.  Yes you are involved, but not to the extent that you are giving yourself credit for.                

FF

[unicorn2014]

  I wish I could try an experiment with him where I didn't contact him until I missed him, but I could never do that with him. It would really hurt and offend him.

Stop wishing

It is his choice to be hurt or offended.  Taking space is not an offensive thing.

If anyone on here disagrees, please speak up.

If your SO wants to be hurt and offended, he can do that.  Not your concern.

Take back the power over fulfilling your needs

FF

Again, I hear you FF so that is my challenge to myself. I already have his text conversation muted and I put my phone in do not disturb mode when I don't want to be bothered. Now I have to let go of worrying about what he's going to think if I go off the radar. I think what I told Grey Kitty works: my SO used to take 90 minutes after therapy (he's yet to take DBT himself, thinks he knows it all, and its not worth the drive to get to it)  to process his emotions so I can take the same time for myself. I don't need to explain myself. If he gets offended, so be it. He expected me to deal with it when he did it, so he can deal with it when I do it.

He was hurt that I ignored his text message today because I used to text him after DBT. That was in the past. A lot has changed since I found out his divorce wasn't filed.

[Grey Kitty]

You point out he keeps texting you. You have options when he texts you and you don't want to deal with him.

1. Text back "I'm in a mood where I shouldn't talk to you for a while. I'll check back in [insert specific time frame like minutes, hours, when I start cooking dinner tonight, tomorrow morning, Friday morning, etc. Don't use words like "soon" or "later" that are ambiguous]" Do honor that time period if possible--this is a good technique for managing abandonment fears and building trust.

Also note that the words I gave are all about how you are feeling, nothing is about what he did, or what he deserves, or anything about him, or how he forced you to do this.

2. In response to a second text, I might send back "Really, I need space. I'll block your number after the next text."

3. On the next one, actually block his number. [If he's really blowing up, you may need to block him on email, facetime, social media, etc., etc., etc.]

The point is that you do have the power to take space away from him. The choice is yours.

Edit... .Cross-posted. Muting his text conversation or putting your phone on do not disturb is a lower level response, and I'd do that before blocking.

[formflier]

  The point is that you do have the power to take space away from him. The choice is yours.

                  You can do this.                 

FF

[unicorn2014]

You point out he keeps texting you. You have options when he texts you and you don't want to deal with him.

1. Text back "I'm in a mood where I shouldn't talk to you for a while. I'll check back in [insert specific time frame like minutes, hours, when I start cooking dinner tonight, tomorrow morning, Friday morning, etc. Don't use words like "soon" or "later" that are ambiguous]" Do honor that time period if possible--this is a good technique for managing abandonment fears and building trust.

You know that's funny because I get really upset with him when he says I'll connect with you later, I'll talk to you later, without giving me a specific time. In fact we've been fighting about that the last two days because he's working on a project while fighting the flu and I'm trying to get him to get specific with me about when he is and isn't available. He plans his availability around my availability, which is another thing that makes me angry. Its frustrating that he can tell me "connect with you later" "talk to you some other time" "talk with you later" and i have to be specific with him.

2. In response to a second text, I might send back "Really, I need space. I'll block your number after the next text."

If I said that he would really blow up.

[unicorn2014]

Edit... .Cross-posted. Muting his text conversation or putting your phone on do not disturb is a lower level response, and I'd do that before blocking.

I do that already, as I told form flier. I only blocked him once and that created a big blow up because we share locations and so he knew I blocked him. I'm not doing that again unless I'm terminating the relationship.

[formflier]

  If I said that he would really blow up.  

               Good, let him.  It is his choice.                

FF

[unicorn2014]

If I said that he would really blow up.

Good... .let him.  It is his choice.

FF

So you're saying its ok to say something that I know would piss him off? That seems like intentionally creating WW3.

[formflier]

  that created a big blow up because we share locations and so he knew I blocked him  

               Look into formflier's crystal ball, you can see the future.   In about a week or two, after you have created space in the r/s.  We need to have a long post discussing the downsides of being so connected with each other and doing things like sharing locations.  As you have said here, location sharing caused a problem.  Isn't looking in the future fun?                  

FF

[formflier]

  So you're saying its ok to say something that I know would piss him off? That seems like intentionally creating WW3.  

               100% absolutely yes!  If telling him you need space creates WW3, so be it.  There is nothing wrong, abusive, offensive, (pick any other words you want) about taking space as we are describing.  If you were talking about pushing his buttons, calling him names, intentionally doing things to make him mad.  Then I would have a different answer.  You are taking care of yourself.  It's his problem if that ticks him off.                

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I agree that blocking him (while working on this r/s) is probably a bad idea. Mainly because there are smaller steps that can protect your mental space like muting the conversation.

However... .the question of how constantly you want to be in contact with is one worth revisiting. I don't know that I'd find location sharing in a LDR all that comfortable myself. I've been in LDRs, and there is something sorta sweet about knowing where the other person is and what they are doing throughout their day.

OTOH, if it becomes an obligation/requirement that you always let him know exactly where you are, that feels stalker-ish / controlling, even to the point of being potentially abusive.

I guess it seems kinda sweet if you opt into it, but unhealthy if it is a requirement and feels like a ball and chain to you.

I guess I'm bringing this up because you do sound kinda trapped/obligated/afraid of changing it.

[unicorn2014]

Form flier a former therapist used to be concerned at how connected we were. We used to keep FaceTime up overnight. I put an end to that. I have drastically reduced the amount of contact which is what he was complaining about today. I think if I need to take 90 minutes after DBT to process my emotions that will save future friction.

---

I agree that the sharing location is a problem.

---

Here's where I'm guilty: I like being able to look up and see where he is. To be honest he shared his location with me to reassure me he was where he said he was. I think he also feels bad about his marital situation. I'm sure he does.

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty, as I told form flier, I do appreciate being able to look up where he is. He actually shares his location with me to reassure me he's where he says he is. He feels bad about being married and he wants me to know he's not cheating on me. It's very twisted. I know I could turn my location off. If I blocked him then I could not see where he is. I have to be ready to take that step if I do that which would be ending the relationship . I'm not ready to do that yet. I don't really care that he knows where I am. That doesn't bother me. It's the having to respond to hello sweetie when I'm mad at him that bothers me.

[Grey Kitty]

Would you feel safe having a conversation with him about whether location sharing is good for your relationship?

Given all the messes with electronic communications, I think that discussing it / stating your boundaries is probably better than just turning things off without saying anything. At least in your r/s as you describe it.

 You are finding ways to make things seem more healthy as you go along. It will probably be an iterative process. There are a lot of different ways to find connection in a LDR.

It's the having to respond to hello sweetie when I'm mad at him that bothers me.

Understood.

FYI, you don't have to respond to every text.

Given that you have a long habit of doing so, and he expects it, you might want to introduce the idea with an explanation instead of simply doing it.

Next time you talk to him voice, give him notice--sometimes you are moody, sometimes you are in a state. You plan to honor your own moods and feelings, and since you don't want to rip him a new one over text, you wont' do that. But when that is how you are feeling, you can't respond with chatty sweet nothings and honor your own feelings. So there will be times you just won't respond.

And he can deal with it. Unless he asks you to rip him a new one instead

[Grey Kitty]

Postscript. You and he aren't the same. You and he don't need and want the same things.

Location sharing can be off, one way, or two way.

If he wants to share his location with you, he can.

If you don't want to share yours with him, you can stop. (He may well choose to stop if you do, but that is his choice. If you are afraid of losing that, think twice before turning yours off.)

Relationships are not about being 100% equal. They are about giving the other person what they need and want. That can be different.

[unicorn2014]

Would you feel safe having a conversation with him about whether location sharing is good for your relationship?

That's not what bothers me, it keeps me accountable as well because that means I won't do anything or go anywhere that I don't want have to explain to him if he asks me where I am.

FYI, you don't have to respond to every text.

And I didn't.

Given that you have a long habit of doing so, and he expects it, you might want to introduce the idea with an explanation instead of simply doing it.

It was the timing of me ignoring his text that upset him. Usually I touch bases with him after DBT but today I decided not to because I was too upset to talk to him and I needed to calm down.

Next time you talk to him voice, give him notice--sometimes you are moody, sometimes you are in a state. You plan to honor your own moods and feelings, and since you don't want to rip him a new one over text, you wont' do that. But when that is how you are feeling, you can't respond with chatty sweet nothings and honor your own feelings. So there will be times you just won't respond.

I think if I tell him that 90 minutes after DBT is going to be time I take to process my feelings he will understand that. If he doesn't then he's a hypocrite as he used to do that for himself when he was in therapy.

Thank you for your help, as I told Chump, this board has really made a positive difference in my relationship.

[unicorn2014]

Postscript. You and he aren't the same. You and he don't need and want the same things.

Location sharing can be off, one way, or two way.

If he wants to share his location with you, he can.

If you don't want to share yours with him, you can stop. (He may well choose to stop if you do, but that is his choice. If you are afraid of losing that, think twice before turning yours off.)

Relationships are not about being 100% equal. They are about giving the other person what they need and want. That can be different.

He will most assuredly turn his off if I turn mine off. Our relationship is very much monkey see monkey do which is one of my biggest complaints about it. In face I was working up the nerve to start a topic about his lack of self because I think he has that symptom real strong but he totally denies it.

He's totally accomplished in the outside world but in our relationship he's like a little boy. If I ever said that to him it would really offend him.

Another thing we used to fight about was equality. He would make fun of me for wanting things equal. That was back in the verbally abusive days. I wouldn't put up with that kind of stuff anymore.

[formflier]

 I don't want have to explain to him if he asks me where I am.    

           OK, break out the crystal ball again. After location sharing we can have a long post about privacy.  Hint:  pwBPD will think about "hiding things".  Non's have things that they chose to keep private.  No further explanation needed.  Let's remember the big decision that I believe you made in this thread.  Take the space you need.  GK is wise to clearly state your needs and what YOU are going to do to take care of those needs.    If he wants to twist it and freak out, that is his choice.            

FF

[unicorn2014]

My SO would get offended if I wanted privacy. We used to even ft together in the bathroom. I am the one who stopped that. That was long before I was posting on here.

---

Please explain privacy in a romantic r/s for a non for me.

[Grey Kitty]

Just because he's a monkey see monkey do tit-for-tat kind of person doesn't mean you need to be one.

Do what is right for you. Let him respond however he chooses to.

There is a more subtle point here about location sharing / general transparency between the two of you.

Privacy vs. secrets.

A person (even when in a very close relationship) has a right to privacy--if nothing else, your own thoughts are private, and you aren't required to share them. In addition, you have the right to go about your day doing things separate from your partner, and it isn't his business what you do. That is privacy.

If you do something which clearly does involve/impact him, and don't tell him, that is a secret. Occasionally they are good, like buying him a Christmas present as a surprise. Often they are bad, like having an affair.

However, things which do not involve him; your job, your family, your dentist appointment, if you don't share those with him, that is privacy, not withholding a secret.

In special circumstances, one partner may give up their privacy for good reason. (One possibility would be trying to rebuild trust after an affair is over.) Many of us in relationships with a pwBPD give up all privacy, and that isn't healthy. Many pwBPD are very suspicious of their partner.

If the only thing keeping you from going out and having a fling with another guy is that you are afraid your bf will see where you are going from your phone... .well... .I don't think you are that sort of person! I hope your bf isn't like that either. Healthy relationships are built on trust. It has to be earned (and your bf hasn't been doing well at earning yours.) Ultimately, your choice to be in a relationship with him is your choice to trust him.

[formflier]

  Please explain privacy in a romantic r/s for a non for me.

           An applicable example from my r/s.  I'm conservative Christian, some church workshops we went to were pushing the idea of "online chastity" and "protecting your mate" from dangers online.  Porn, emotional affairs and such.  So an effective solution is for spouses to have passwords and access to see what the other is doing.  It is effective.  However, in my case my wife would see an email and twist it.  Then we would fight about it  My very first boundary and extinction burst was over me "taking back" or "keeping private" my password.    Wow, that was an experience.  But it worked.  My life is so much calmer as a result.  I didn't ask my wife for permission to do it, nor did I inform her.    Once she figured it out, she finally directly asked for the password.  I said no  I also "called her bluff" a bit later on when she started saying that I could now have affairs and such and who would monitor me.  My offer still stands to her that she can have a pastor over, or couple members of board of deacons with zero notice to me, I will put in my password and they can review my emails/online content together.  This put the "ball in her court" and she (to my knowledge) has never taken any action to do this.            

FF

[unicorn2014]

Grey Kitty wrote

If the only thing keeping you from going out and having a fling with another guy is that you are afraid your bf will see where you are going from your phone... .well... .I don't think you are that sort of person! I hope your bf isn't like that either. Healthy relationships are built on trust. It has to be earned (and your bf hasn't been doing well at earning yours.) Ultimately, your choice to be in a relationship with him is your choice to trust him.

No I would not do that. I don't distrust him. See that's just it, and that's what so weird, he never cheated on me, but his wife thought he cheated on her. I'm not worried about him cheating on me and I'm not worried about me cheating on him.

[unicorn2014]

   Please explain privacy in a romantic r/s for a non for me.

  An applicable example from my r/s.  I'm conservative Christian, some church workshops we went to were pushing the idea of "online chastity" and "protecting your mate" from dangers online.  Porn, emotional affairs and such.  So an effective solution is for spouses to have passwords and access to see what the other is doing.  It is effective.  However, in my case my wife would see an email and twist it.  Then we would fight about it  My very first boundary and extinction burst was over me "taking back" or "keeping private" my password.    Wow, that was an experience.  But it worked.  My life is so much calmer as a result.  I didn't ask my wife for permission to do it, nor did I inform her.    Once she figured it out, she finally directly asked for the password.  I said no  I also "called her bluff" a bit later on when she started saying that I could now have affairs and such and who would monitor me.  My offer still stands to her that she can have a pastor over, or couple members of board of deacons with zero notice to me, I will put in my password and they can review my emails/online content together.  This put the "ball in her court" and she (to my knowledge) has never taken any action to do this. 

FF

Thank you for sharing. My SO also comes from a conservative Christian background so I am happy that both sets of parents are happy with our relationship. I wonder if that conservative Christian background also informs some of my SO lack of privacy issues.

[Turkish]

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