Should I uphold this boundary?

[unicorn2014]

So the first text I get from my SO this afternoon starts out with "hello sweetie... ." I haven't read it yet. I just got out of distress tolerance where we were talking about radical acceptance and turning the mind.

I am very angry with my SO.

I want to tell him "please don't call me sweetie."

I'm wondering what's the worth of doing that.

Thoughts?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Grey Kitty]

":)on't call me sweetie" isn't a boundary enforcement action you can take; it is a rule you can set, and it gives him the choice to obey or break the rule. Here's the short version:

Boundary enforcement--"When you do X, I will do Y to protect myself from consequence Z of your action X." Note... .telling him that you are enforcing the boundary, why you are enforcing the boundary, or asking him not to go over the boundary isn't a part of this.

Rule--":)o not do X." Note that you have no control over the outcome at all here.

And the more direct answer--I am having trouble imagining a good outcome of you saying to him "please don't call me sweetie."

[chump]

Hi Unicorn,

I should begin with a disclaimer.  I am no longer in a relationship with a pwBPD, but not by choice.  I was a “stayer” and still am one at heart, but my relationship did not survive my efforts to establish healthy boundaries.  I continue to read this board because this group inspires me with their commitment to their partners, their relationships, and healthy relationship practices.  I learn something each time I come here.

Your posts have been particularly interesting to me, because they have a certain quality that stands out from most I’ve read on the “staying” forum.  You have repeatedly stated your commitment to staying, and have expressly requested that no one post anything that would challenge that commitment, so I make these comments with that in mind.  I will try to thread the needle, showing respect for your wishes and where you are in your relationship, while hopefully adding something to the conversation.

What I notice about most “stayers,” and GK and FF stand out as heroic examples of this, is how dedicated they are to maintain some kind of peace in these relationships (their own or the rest of us here), while simultaneously learning/teaching/developing/practicing/upholding healthy boundaries to protect the interests and mental health of the “non” partners.

Very often this manifests as a tension between trying to maintain peace in a relationship, but without walking on eggshells, or giving up too much of ourselves in the process.  But the default is toward peace-making or even occasional care-taking, with constant vigilance around not going too far with it and tipping into unhealthy enmeshment.

What I’ve noticed in your posts, and this one is a good example, instead of peace-making, you seem to be looking for conflict.  You have stated how angry you are, and your anger sounds justifiable, but you seem to be taking exception to a multitude of your partner’s behaviors, many of which are not even directly affecting you (whether or not he attends church is the one I’m thinking of) and even going as far as to include his choice of terms of endearment “sweetie,” as in this post.  The point is that you’re having a lot of problems with a lot of his choices, many which don’t seem to affect you directly, and some, like his being affectionate (granted, you doubt its sincerity), that many “stayers” would be elated with.

So my question, or input, while continuing to respect your request for support in your choice to stay in this relationship, is have you noticed this phenomenon?  Where you are having problems with so many of his behaviors, many which really don’t affect you directly, and some which would qualify as loving, affection behavior for lots of people? I’m not questioning that potentially insincere affection might be hard to trust, but I am questioning whether it’s harmful to you.

As always, I offer this with complete respect, and only consider it if you find it helpful.

Chump

[unicorn2014]

":)on't call me sweetie" isn't a boundary enforcement action you can take; it is a rule you can set, and it gives him the choice to obey or break the rule. Here's the short version:

Boundary enforcement--"When you do X, I will do Y to protect myself from consequence Z of your action X." Note... .telling him that you are enforcing the boundary, why you are enforcing the boundary, or asking him not to go over the boundary isn't a part of this.

Rule--":)o not do X." Note that you have no control over the outcome at all here.

And the more direct answer--I am having trouble imagining a good outcome of you saying to him "please don't call me sweetie."

Right, which is why I chose to ignore him calling me sweetie and cupcake rather then tell him I was mad at him and didn't want him calling me those names.

---

I'm having a really hard time dealing with the rejection sensitivity trait of BPD  right now. I'm having a hard time caring. I'm also finding myself  not wanting to be like my SO and make the same mistakes he's made. I find my self resenting him however I can understand why he behaved the way he did. That does not mean I would make the same choices he made. I would never lie directly to another person, nor be dishonest. If I was asked a direct question I would give a direct answer. That's the difference between me and him.

---

How many mental illnesses is lying a symptom of besides BPD?

[unicorn2014]

Chump posted

What I’ve noticed in your posts, and this one is a good example, instead of peace-making, you seem to be looking for conflict.  You have stated how angry you are, and your anger sounds justifiable, but you seem to be taking exception to a multitude of your partner’s behaviors, many of which are not even directly affecting you (whether or not he attends church is the one I’m thinking of) and even going as far as to include his choice of terms of endearment “sweetie,” as in this post.  The point is that you’re having a lot of problems with a lot of his choices, many which don’t seem to affect you directly, and some, like his being affectionate (granted, you doubt its sincerity), that many “stayers” would be elated with.

Let me address those two issues specifically.

1. He was going back to church for my sake to try to impress me. When I met him he had stopped going to church years ago. I was actively involved in my church. I brought him to my church. He liked my church. People at my church liked him. He's friends with them on Facebook. People at church would ask me about him when I went. Now he's not going to church in his town. I resent him for this. He said he liked going to my church, but he doesn't want to go to his local church. I have a big problem with this.

2. I don't doubt his sincerity at all when he calls me sweetie and cupcake. As I stated I am mad at him for putting me in this position in the first place. I'm in a LDR with a man who is not divorced from his wife. It is shameful to me. I'm very angry with him for that. So when he calls me sweetie and cupcake it reminds me of the circumstances of our relationship and I don't appreciate it at all. I don't doubt his feelings for me are real. I think they are inappropriate. He knew he was married. He should have never approached me in the first place. He should have looked up to see if his divorce was filed when I asked him rather then tell me I should trust him. Those are the things I have to work through so when he calls me sweetie or cupcake, I'm not feeling it.

---

Having said that, I am curious as to what makes me stand apart?

[Skip]

Sometimes it just needs to be said - It's petty and it's drama making.

I don't doubt his feelings for me are real. I think they are inappropriate. He knew he was married. He should have never approached me in the first place. He should have looked up to see if his divorce was filed when I asked him rather then tell me I should trust him. Those are the things I have to work through so when he calls me sweetie or cupcake, I'm not feeling it.

This is the real issue. He's a married man, in another town, not getting a divorce, and this makes you mad.

Being antagonistic and petty isn't going to right this wrong or move him to action.

[Moselle]

Perhaps keep it very simple

"When you call me sweetie, it makes me feel uncomfortable. I would like you to call me by my name". Then suddenly remember you need to dash off to the shops. 

[chump]

Hi again,

It seems that most “stayers” are struggling to maintain the peace, to just “get along” with partners who are often difficult or impossible to get along with. Walking on eggshells, tiptoeing through minefields, trying to maintain some kind of calm or good will, putting up with outbursts, rages, silent treatment, lack of affection or intimacy, infidelity, etc.

Contrast that list with him not going to church, or calling you his fiancée, or terms of endearment like “sweetie.”  I’m not challenging your underlying grievance, his dishonesty and slipperiness around his marital status/divorce. That would bother me too, a lot.  I’m just noticing the marked contrast between the usual list of what makes relationships with pwBPD so challenging, and how hard some folks here hang on by their fingernails, and then comparing that to some of the concerns you’ve raised which seem to be pretty benign.

And in the whole category of healthy boundaries, the concept of “his side of the street” and “your side of the street,” a number of your concerns seem to fall in the category of “his side of the street.”

You have every right to decide how you allow yourself to be treated, whether or not to pursue a relationship with a married person, or under what terms you would continue that relationship, I’m not questioning that.  But I am questioning you trying to control his behaviors that are happening hundreds of miles away from you (thousands? Don’t remember), some of which really have little or nothing to do with you, or behaviors (like affectionate pet names) which might be considered loving behavior.

FF mentioned awhile back that this being a LDR would lend itself to boundary setting.  It so much easier to maintain boundaries with someone who’s only connected by phone or other form of technology.  A button is all that separates you from their behaviors. I realize it’s more complicated than that, but again, when comparing to someone who lives with, or shares assets with, or children, etc, etc.

So my comment was more to highlight your power in this situation. You really have the power to protect yourself in ways that many “stayers” simply don’t have. With that in mind, I was noticing how many things were bugging you that seemed more in the category of trying to control his behavior rather than protect yourself from harm, abuse, etc.

Chump

[unicorn2014]

Sometimes it just needs to be said - It's petty and it's drama making.

I don't doubt his feelings for me are real. I think they are inappropriate. He knew he was married. He should have never approached me in the first place. He should have looked up to see if his divorce was filed when I asked him rather then tell me I should trust him. Those are the things I have to work through so when he calls me sweetie or cupcake, I'm not feeling it.

This is the real issue. He's a married man, in another town, not getting a divorce, and this makes you mad.

Being antagonistic and petty isn't going to right this wrong or move him to action.

Skip, I didn't actually say don't call me sweetie. I should say he's a physically separated man, living in another state, who's divorce hasn't been filed yet, and I'm angry and ashamed to be in a relationship with him.

---

He just told me he needs to take a vacation with me and I said "Oh, you want to take a vacation with me?" I was able to validate him without even thinking about it.

[unicorn2014]

Chump wrote

Contrast that list with him not going to church, or calling you his fiancée, or terms of endearment like “sweetie.”  I’m not challenging your underlying grievance, his dishonesty and slipperiness around his marital status/divorce. That would bother me too, a lot.  I’m just noticing the marked contrast between the usual list of what makes relationships with pwBPD so challenging, and how hard some folks here hang on by their fingernails, and then comparing that to some of the concerns you’ve raised which seem to be pretty benign.

So are you suggesting I not respond to texts where he calls me sweetie or cupcake? What about when he says that on FaceTime. Then what I am supposed to say? End the call? That would be the equivalent of pushing a button.

[chump]

So are you suggesting I not respond to texts where he calls me sweetie or cupcake? What about when he says that on FaceTime. Then what I am supposed to say? End the call? That would be the equivalent of pushing a button.

Sure, don't respond if you don't want to.  Or hang up politely.  Or... .or... .?  What I'm really suggesting is that you distinguish between "his side of the street" and "your side of the street" and focus all your attention of your side.

If you don't like him calling you "sweetie" tell him nicely and live with the consequences.  He gets to decide how he responds to that request.  And yes, some of your boundary setting may be relationship threatening.  That's often how people in dysfunctional relationships wield power against each other, by threatening to end the relationship.

Once your focus shifts to your own values and setting boundaries around them, you have to let go of controlling how the other person responds.  You set a boundary, you wait for their response, fully accept their choices as their right to choose, then depending on how it goes try to negotiate a mutually acceptable agreement so the relationship can continue on stronger footing going forward.

This is the core issue that makes relationships so tricky, even for healthy people... .they're ultimately completely voluntary, and we can only control our own choices.  Each party is free to go at any time.

Chump

[Skip]

It seems that most “stayers” are struggling to maintain the peace, to just “get along” with partners who are often difficult or impossible to get along with. Walking on eggshells, tiptoeing through minefields, trying to maintain some kind of calm or good will, putting up with outbursts, rages, silent treatment, lack of affection or intimacy, infidelity, etc.

I'm not sure this is a helpful generalization. If we went to a marriage counselors office and looked at the couple there, we could conclude that all marriages are fraught with problems. People on this board, by definition, are in difficult times in their relationship.

Make sense?

some of the concerns you’ve raised which seem to be pretty benign.

Benign is a good term.

Unicorn, one good test of a boundary is looking at the underlying value you are defending and whether you, yourself, are committed to it. If its just a quirky demand, it doesn't advance you or your relationship.

What is the value here (question)?  The sanctity of marriage/being fiancee'? Integrity? Honesty? How does your boundary protect that value?

Maybe boundary is not what this is.  Maybe it's passive aggressive anger/frustration. You feel helpless and with little control to solve the real problem, so you create this minor issue to have control over.

Problem is, this type of reaction tends to make matter worse. For example, how do reconcile, please show me divorce papers and be my husband with don't show me endearment.

Go four or five layers deep into this type of relationship transaction and everything either of you do will become a drama.

Does this boundary help you?

[Mutt]

So are you suggesting I not respond to texts where he calls me sweetie or cupcake? What about when he says that on FaceTime. Then what I am supposed to say? End the call? That would be the equivalent of pushing a button.

Hi unicorn2014,

I can see how that would feel upsetting being called sweetie. I think that you did the right thing by not responding immediately. Sometimes I think it's a good idea to give messages a space. You could respond in a few hours perhaps? I think that the bigger issue are the feelings that you have about the relationship. Maybe I would put not being called sweetie on the back-burner for now?

[chump]

It seems that most “stayers” are struggling to maintain the peace, to just “get along” with partners who are often difficult or impossible to get along with. Walking on eggshells, tiptoeing through minefields, trying to maintain some kind of calm or good will, putting up with outbursts, rages, silent treatment, lack of affection or intimacy, infidelity, etc.

I'm not sure this is a helpful generalization. If we went to a marriage counselors office and looked at the couple there, we could conclude that all marriages are fraught with problems. People on this board, by definition, are in difficult times in their relationship.

Make sense?

Fair point Skip.  I debated even attempting to convey what I was picking up on because it's so easy to fall into generalizations.  I used lots of qualifying words like "it seems" and "often" and "perhaps" and so on, to hopefully get across that I realize there are all kinds of shades of grey in relationships, particularly these relationships.  You're right, generalizations are often not helpful, and can feel judgmental.  My goal was to bring some gentle attention to what I was noticing.  

I might quibble with you a bit on one point.  While I agree that most marriages are at least occasionally problematic, some of the things I listed in my post reach another level (things like raging, silent treatment, etc), and would qualify as toxic or abusive, and happen to be prevalent in many BPD relationships.  I'd make that distinction.  But agree and accept your larger point.

Chump

[pallavirajsinghani]

I lived in Northeast and now am in the South--here every one calls everyone else  "Sweetie" or "Honey" or "Sugar". Without divulging identifying information, do you think that culture that he is in or the culture he grew up in are contributory in this form of addressing you?  If yes, then perhaps it is not to be taken as a term of endearment, if cultural factors are into play, then it is a term of common courtesy (yes... .I can't tell you how many times I have been called by such terms by waiters, clerks... .).

[Skip]

I can't tell you how many times I have been called by such terms by waiters, clerks... .

and by Skip 

[pallavirajsinghani]

O Skip is a major "Sweetheart"... .whether in South or North... .

[unicorn2014]

Skip wrote

What is the value here (question)?  The sanctity of marriage/being fiancee'? Integrity? Honesty? How does your boundary protect that value?

Maybe boundary is not what this is.  Maybe it's passive aggressive anger/frustration. You feel helpless and with little control to solve the real problem, so you create this minor issue to have control over.

Problem is, this type of reaction tends to make matter worse. For example, how do reconcile, please show me divorce papers and be my husband with don't show me endearment.

Go four or five layers deep into this type of relationship transaction and everything either of you do will become a drama.

Does this boundary help you?

"What is the value here (question)?  The sanctity of marriage/being fiancee'? Integrity? Honesty? How does your boundary protect that value?

"

Yes, as my first marriage was a conservative religious   marriage, which I did in contrast  to my hippie parents, who weren't even married when I was born. Now I'm neither a hippie, nor am I currently attending church (for other reasons) so I'm kind of in a no man's land when it comes to marriage.

It is interesting you  mentioned integrity because in June when I was asking my SO to show me his divorce papers he refused on the grounds that I was questioning his integrity.

It definitely has to do with honesty. I am still mad at him for lying to me about being married. That would be like me getting into a new relationship without either ending my relationship or telling my SO or the new person that I was already in a relationship. I would think that would be lying and dishonest. Now my SO says he wasn't emotionally bonded to his wife which is why he didn't think about it when he was talking to me and I find that hard to accept. I didn't have a choice about whether or not I was mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually bonded to my husband when I was married, that's what marriage was. That's why I got out of my marriage, because I didn't want to be connected to my husband that way anymore. I never had an overlapping relationship. That is what I resent, the fact that my SO was having parallel relationships with his wife and me. I don't care if he wasn't in love with her or they weren't having sex. He was still living in the same house as her when I started talking to him. He could have had the common decency to tell me he was living with a woman, but he called her his roommate.

---

To reiterate, I have not told him "don't call me sweetie, ad infinitum", I just know that when I'm feeling mad at him I don't feel like being those things to him.

---

Skip, what does this part mean?

Go four or five layers deep into this type of relationship transaction and everything either of you do will become a drama.

Go four or five layers deep into this type of relationship transaction and everything either of you do will become a drama. Can you please unpack this ? I think you're on to something there but I don't know what it is yet.

[unicorn2014]

So are you suggesting I not respond to texts where he calls me sweetie or cupcake? What about when he says that on FaceTime. Then what I am supposed to say? End the call? That would be the equivalent of pushing a button.

Hi unicorn2014,

I can see how that would feel upsetting being called sweetie. I think that you did the right thing by not responding immediately. Sometimes I think it's a good idea to give messages a space. You could respond in a few hours perhaps? I think that the bigger issue are the feelings that you have about the relationship. Maybe I would put not being called sweetie on the back-burner for now?

Mutt, I think you hit the nail on the head here. He did get mad at me for not responding to his text right away, but as grey kitty said, if he dysregulates, he dysregulates. I told him I was participating in a chat, which was true, and I couldn't multitask, which was also true. I didn't tell him I was mad at him. He didn't need to know  that. So I managed to weather that storm without telling him don't call me sweetie and without telling him I was mad at him because that's not going to accomplish anything either. He has the flu today and he is working on a work project that is due this week, so telling him I'm mad at him for things that happened 3 years ago, or things he's not working on today isn't going to achieve anything. I was able to walk away from that text message with my self esteem intact. I was even able to validate him when he told me he needed to go on a vacation with me, I said "oh you want to go on a vacation with me?" I was sufficiently distracted when he said that to me and I didn't react to it, which was good.

[unicorn2014]

Chump wrote

I might quibble with you a bit on one point.  While I agree that most marriages are at least occasionally problematic, some of the things I listed in my post reach another level (things like raging, silent treatment, etc), and would qualify as toxic or abusive, and happen to be prevalent in many BPD relationships.  I'd make that distinction.  But agree and accept your larger point.

I should add we did have those problems in the beginning of our relationship (silent treatment) and up until recently raging, I think I have a thread on here about one of his rages. Its only because he's had EMDR, is on the right dose of his medication, and I started taking a sleep medication I was prescribed years ago that we are getting along today. So its not like I haven't had those kinds of problems in my relationship. The last time my SO dysregulated it was so bad I told him if he ever does that again I'm filing a restraining order on him. He also called his therapist on himself because he didn't like the fact he lost control like that.

Our relationship has greatly improved since I started writing on the staying board, to be honest.

[unicorn2014]

I lived in Northeast and now am in the South--here every one calls everyone else  "Sweetie" or "Honey" or "Sugar". Without divulging identifying information, do you think that culture that he is in or the culture he grew up in are contributory in this form of addressing you?  If yes, then perhaps it is not to be taken as a term of endearment, if cultural factors are into play, then it is a term of common courtesy (yes... .I can't tell you how many times I have been called by such terms by waiters, clerks... .).

Yes he grew up part time in the South and yes he calls me sugar too. He is doing it on purpose to show his affection to me. I was feeling mad at him earlier and I didn't want to hear it. I had just come out of my dbt class on distress tolerance and radical acceptance where I was working on my relationship. So of course I didn't feel like talking to him and ironically enough he was really wanting to connect with me. I think Mutt got it right when he said delay my response which is what I did, even though my SO complained about it later. As I said I gave him a couple of good reasons why I didn't reply right away and that soothed him. I also told him that next week I probably wouldn't be able to respond to a text right after class, so that created some emotional space for myself.

[unicorn2014]

To continue

Chump wrote

Contrast that list with him not going to church, or calling you his fiancée, or terms of endearment like “sweetie.”  I’m not challenging your underlying grievance, his dishonesty and slipperiness around his marital status/divorce. That would bother me too, a lot.  I’m just noticing the marked contrast between the usual list of what makes relationships with pwBPD so challenging, and how hard some folks here hang on by their fingernails, and then comparing that to some of the concerns you’ve raised which seem to be pretty benign.

They may be benign for someone who is not prone to overreaction themselves  (me) but they are not benign for me. If his behavior of calling me sweetie right after I got out of DBT where I was practicing the radical acceptance skill of distress tolerance to help me deal with my relationship, than that is not a benign issue for me. I've got to keep it together, I can't afford to get angry, and when he calls me sweetie and I'm mad at him, its triggering. I think what is benign for one person may not be benign for another.

---

Also I have not talked about the problems I've had when he's visited me, like the times he's ended up sleeping on the floor in the middle of the night because he's been triggered. He just hasn't been to see me since June because I put a stop to his visits until he gets a new lawyer and files for divorce and shows me the papers. We have had face to face experience.

[Grey Kitty]

I've suggested you cut down the time you spend in contact with him via whatever combination of text, phone, video-chat you use. (Here I go beating on this one again. Let me know if it looks like a dead horse!)

You are angry at him over the deceit, and angry at yourself for getting into and staying in relationship with his current marital status.

Further, if you find yourself feeling angry when he calls you an affectionate name, I have real trouble imagining ANYTHING he could do or say that wouldn't kinda piss you off. (Besides moving at warp-12 through his divorce!)

If you are in a pissy mood whenever you are interacting with him, this isn't going to be good for your relationship. Take a break. Take a time out from all this interaction with him.

You might even get to the point of missing him if you take enough space! And you can call him when that happens! I'm sure he would rather hear from you when you are happy to be speaking with him.

Also if you aren't constantly barraged with his contact which brings up powerful reactions in you, you will have more time and space to figure out your own feelings. And you sound very conflicted still--not completely comfortable with the choices you have or are making.

(If 50~80% of your contact with him is pleasant and rewarding for you, let me know, and I'll back off.)

[unicorn2014]

I've suggested you cut down the time you spend in contact with him via whatever combination of text, phone, video-chat you use. (Here I go beating on this one again. Let me know if it looks like a dead horse!)

Grey Kitty, he's the one who texted me after DBT, I didn't text him. I'm not responsible for the fact he texted me. Btw, kitty is another one of of his terms of endearment for me. 

If you are in a pissy mood whenever you are interacting with him, this isn't going to be good for your relationship. Take a break. Take a time out from all this interaction with him.

I was in a pissed off mood because I had just been working on the relationship in DBT and then to have to come outside and be nice to him was too much for me. He even knew that I was processing our relationship in DBT and he was nervous. Good. He should be.

You might even get to the point of missing him if you take enough space! And you can call him when that happens! I'm sure he would rather hear from you when you are happy to be speaking with him.

If I could take enough space. He whined to me about how I used to contact him after I got out of DBT. I told him I was doing a chat and I couldn't multitask and I texted him as soon as I could.

Also if you aren't constantly barraged with his contact which brings up powerful reactions in you, you will have more time and space to figure out your own feelings. And you sound very conflicted still--not completely comfortable with the choices you have or are making.

Right, and he's the one who contacted me, I didn't contact him. Right, I am conflicted because by staying in this relationship that means I can't be in another relationship and I want to make sure I'm making the right decision. I will not do what he did and double time, that goes against my values. I'm not happy about the situation but he continues to appear to be the best suited man for me, so I'm putting up with it.

(If 50~80% of your contact with him is pleasant and rewarding for you, let me know, and I'll back off.)

Yes, I would say that is true. I'm just angry at him now because I'm processing things through radical acceptance so to turn around to him and have to be loving after staring the demon in the eyes is very difficult. He knows exactly how I feel, I even made a joke about having a boyfriend in another state who's in another relationship is one reason I'm taking DBT.

[chump]

To continue

Chump wrote

Contrast that list with him not going to church, or calling you his fiancée, or terms of endearment like “sweetie.”  I’m not challenging your underlying grievance, his dishonesty and slipperiness around his marital status/divorce. That would bother me too, a lot.  I’m just noticing the marked contrast between the usual list of what makes relationships with pwBPD so challenging, and how hard some folks here hang on by their fingernails, and then comparing that to some of the concerns you’ve raised which seem to be pretty benign.

They may be benign for someone who is not prone to overreaction themselves  (me) but they are not benign for me.

Yeah, Skip called me out a bit on that one too. Sorry to generalize and perhaps sound a bit judgmental.

Our relationship has greatly improved since I started writing on the staying board, to be honest.

[formflier]

I've suggested you cut down the time you spend in contact with him via whatever combination of text, phone, video-chat you use. (Here I go beating on this one again. Let me know if it looks like a dead horse!)  

               Unicorn, As we get to know each other and form opinions about other and our relationships, we also form opinions about the "one thing" that someone should be doing in order to improve their relationship.  Something that is within their power.  Others do it to me as well.  Grey Kitty is adamant that if I consistently focus on validation and get to the point where validation is the first tool I reach for, not only will my r/s with my wife improve, but my r/s with others that I meet in life.   Others have made the point to me as well.  I'm working on it.  I don't like it, it is uncomfortable  But I know in my head that they are right.  It's a "part of me" that I need to mature.  I've made the suggestion before, and I will make it again.  Cut the amount of contact in half (at least) and after a couple weeks of uncomfortableness, I believe that you will see immense benefits to your r/s.  Due to a move my wife and I are about 8 hours apart.  I don't call her "just to chat".  After a couple days of limited contact, when a chance comes to have a 10 minute conversation on the phone, I realize I miss her.    Yesterday morning, after a couple days of limited contact, what I thought would be a 5 minute quick call turned into 20 minutes of talking about "us" and how we were when we were dating.  It was a wonderful conversation.  I believe the "space" we have created contributed to that.  You have the power to give yourself space in the r/s!  Please do so.                  

FF

[unicorn2014]

To continue

Chump wrote

Contrast that list with him not going to church, or calling you his fiancée, or terms of endearment like “sweetie.”  I’m not challenging your underlying grievance, his dishonesty and slipperiness around his marital status/divorce. That would bother me too, a lot.  I’m just noticing the marked contrast between the usual list of what makes relationships with pwBPD so challenging, and how hard some folks here hang on by their fingernails, and then comparing that to some of the concerns you’ve raised which seem to be pretty benign.

They may be benign for someone who is not prone to overreaction themselves  (me) but they are not benign for me.

Yeah, Skip called me out a bit on that one too. Sorry to generalize and perhaps sound a bit judgmental.

Our relationship has greatly improved since I started writing on the staying board, to be honest.

I think Skip called you out for a different reason, he agreed with you on the benign part. I'm saying for me who is prone to overreaction myself any situation that provokes my emotions is malignant.

That being said you noticed the important thing: posting on the undecided and now staying board has greatly improved my relationship and for that I am grateful.

[unicorn2014]

Form flier wrote

I've made the suggestion before, and I will make it again.  Cut the amount of contact in half (at least) and after a couple weeks of uncomfortableness, I believe that you will see immense benefits to your r/s.

I hear you and I am trying and I want to repeat that he texted me, I didn't text him, and when I didn't respond right away he got upset because I used to text him right after I got out of DBT and today I didn't. He often references the way things used to be and the things I used to do. See, that shows I am changing.   See he gets nervous when I go to therapy or DBT because he thinks (rightly so) I'm either going to be thinking about or talking about him. Today I didn't mention a word about him in DBT but I sure was thinking about him.

I also appreciate you sharing that currently your relationship is temporarily long distance. I wish my SO would allow me the time and space to miss him, I really do. I wish I could try an experiment with him where I didn't contact him until I missed him, but I could never do that with him. It would really hurt and offend him.

[formflier]

  Grey Kitty, he's the one who texted me after DBT, I didn't text him. I'm not responsible for the fact he texted me.  If I could take enough space.   He whined to me about how I used to contact him after I got out of DBT.  I told him I was doing a chat and I couldn't multitask and I texted him as soon as I could.     Right, and he's the one who contacted me, I didn't contact him.  

               There is also a theme in your posts of "putting things on him that belong to you".  It's about figuring out what is on your side of the street and then keeping your side of the street clean.  You are in charge of your communication.  100%.  Let him text you all day long.  Let him text, facetime, send smoke signals, carrier pigeons, and send sky writing planes, all at the same time.  It's your communication, your eyes, your ears.  If what you hear is unpleasant, you control it.  End of story  Note:  I realize this is hard stuff.  I used to think I "had to" because someone else communicated to me.    There is no if you could take space.  You can.  If you don't have space, it is a decision you are making.                

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I'm saying for me who is prone to overreaction myself any situation that provokes my emotions is malignant.

And that is the reason to give yourself space away from him.

When I was in my marriage, there were times I nearly flew out the front door trying not to slam it and trying not to shout as I said "I'm going away before I say or do something I'll regret later."

I'm pretty even tempered, but can get riled up, especially if somebody keeps pushing my buttons. And I learned that there were times when anything I did would be creating fallout in my marriage I'd have to deal with later. At those times, the best thing I could do was avoid making things worse by going away!

And that is the sort of thing I suggest for you--be aware of your own emotions and moods, and end your contact when you know you are only going to make things worse.

The mood will pass, and you can reconnect later.