Inner conflict about whether to divorce question - again, and again

[SamwizeGamgee]

I'm posting this to get the words out somewhere.  I am stuck again.  Maybe in talking about it I can get back to reality.

I've been married about 18 yrs.  Recently, I started thinking of it as I'm just in a divorce that has taken 18 years.  I'll have it reasoned out that the kids are in a toxic house with me and uBPDw together.  I'll go over my reasoning, and figure that although divorce will be hard, I know that by living apart, I can create a home with peace, stability, and a safe place for kids.  I even get the courage up to take the financial hit, deal with a grueling divorce, and go for it.

Then, almost as though to prove me wrong, my wife has been seemingly (recently and magically) good with the kids.  I know that has not always been the case.  Recently, we also had a "heart to heart" talk that seemed to cheer her up, and she was doing great - at least on the surface.  So, I've started to question everything all over again.  I walked back from the decision and conviction that divorce will work. 

Additionally, last night we had a follow-on conversation, where I was not so calm and collected - I defended myself against her habit of analyzing things and telling me what I felt and why I did things - and ended up going to bed thinking that I really am to blame. 

Plus, she has hinted, and made it clear, that she sees herself as the only fit parent, and only through her can the kids get support, and she will never give them up, and (implying) that she will do anything to keep that role - meaning that I can't do what I have been doing as a fully involved dad.  I wonder if she sees our separation as a threat to her security, and now is doubling down on taking up all the kids' time and attention, and making every effort to load the love onto the kids.  I feel like she is manipulating them away from me, as well as taking quiet opportunities to bad mouth me (e.g. "daddy didn't give us enough money for Christmas."  I think what she said has shaken my resolve to go through with a divorce because, as a working dad with a long day, and her as a poster child stay home mom she'll end up with custody - or at least most of it.  I've talked to her about getting a job - all the kids are in school, and we honestly could use more income with the oldest ready to graduate high school and go to college.  But, she outright refuses to work full time, and will not accept anything that impinges on her meeting all the kids' schedules, and rules out child care /after school programs.

I have just about finished reading Evans' "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" and also Fjelstad's "Stop Caretaking the Borderline... ."  Those books are _monumental_ in what I am going through, and teach me that no matter what, I am in a different reality from my wife.  I also am convinced that things will never get better between us, we will never make a couple than can raise healthy kids.  Maybe I can be healthy for them, but it will be me alone (even if we stay married, I'm alone).  But, what I'm not steady on is the question of divorce.  Right now, I am wondering why I am even posting this story.  I'm sure my problem is not unique, since the damage done by BPDs is very often so similar.  But, what do I do to do right by the kids?  Or me? 

I wish my wifey wasn't such a persuasive blamer and victim!  (! x 1000)

Thanks for reading. 

[Aaron1979]

Hey, I am letting you know that you're not alone.  I'm in a similar situation with my wife who when she knew I would leave started to shape up because she knows that I won't tolerate her behavior anymore.  My wife still refuses to take real responsibility in her heart.  She also talks about how difficult it is to live with me to other people.  When I got her to a psychologist she fooled the psychologist and later refused to talk to the psychologist in the sessions when she was found out. So what she's is doing is to go underground.  Until she can take responsibility for her actions and thoughts and is willing to change them, she will do this again.   

Whatever you do, please do not reattach to her emotionally until she changes her thinking.  If you attach to her she has more control of you.       

I'm in the same boat now.  If I leave now, I risk losing the kids, her becoming more nasty, and will be alone.  If I leave later, I expose the kids to this for a longer time, I will be unhappy most of the time, and I'm closer to the abuse. Even though the abuse is less, it still occurs in certain forms.  Both ways have their own risks. It's a hard thing to know what to do because it's incredibly complex.  This isn't what we signed up for, that's for sure. 

I haven't really decided myself 100%.  However, I'm determined not to let this woman ever get a foothold on my heart ever again unless her thinking changes.  If she blames me she is just projecting her own misery onto myself and I refuse to pick it up.  I have the papers filled out, hidden, and accessible just in case.  If I decide that I can't take it anymore, I'll be ready.       

[livednlearned]

Hi SamGee,

It's a big breakthrough to realize that your spouse lives in a different reality. With some BPD sufferers, communication skills like validation work. Having empathy can work (empathy is different than enabling someone to act badly). But probably most important, you have to be emotionally strong, and that probably feels tough after 18 years of verbal abuse. There's a good chance you're depressed (over 70 percent of the members who took a poll on the board suffer from some degree of depression). And depression makes it hard to think clearly. Everything feels like an effort.

There is a thread that might help you work through the decision:

PERSPECTIVES: Is it better for the kids if I stay or leave?

There have been studies that show that kids who grow up in divorced homes have more problems in life than kids whose parents stay together. Would having a BPD/NPD parent (or other abusive parent) change this outlook? If you leave, do you think your kids have been harmed by the friction between you and the ex? Would things be better for your kids living in a two-parent home situation? If you are the father, do you believe that leaving your marriage means leaving your kids? Read more.

One of the good things about divorce is that your head clears. A lot. You gain emotional strength. The kids have a place where they can exhale and feel the same levity that you feel.

One of the bad things about divorce is that it triggers BPD abandonment fears (x 1000), and that can trigger parental alienation. You get out of the divorce, and the stuff your wife is doing now (dad didn't give us enough money for Christmas) escalates. Also, no one makes money in a BPD divorce. It does feel like courts are set up to see who loses less.   

I found that the skills I could've used on my ex (I discovered BPD after I left) were effective with my son, who was developing BPD traits, and seems to have a sensitive genotype similar to his dad. Focusing on raising an emotionally resilient child is actually the way I started to heal. I was trying to figure out how to be emotionally healthy for him, as a role model, and that began a really important process that offset a lot of my ex's damaging behaviors. That's one way to do right by you, and by the kids at the same time. A great book that can help them a lot is "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better" which talks about the power of validating questions. Your kids probably are being discouraged from believing/developing their own selves because doing so creates a boundary between them and their mom. It's an essential part of development to do this, but in a BPD parent/child relationship, can feel very threatening to the parent and she/he will do everything to minimize any and all boundaries. That's why your role in understanding emotional resilience is so important.

All of this is to say that you may find yourself in a much better frame of mind if you divorce, though certainly the struggles do not go away. Some of them get worse, some get better. I was eventually successful at every court hearing I had, to the point that I won full custody (hard to do in my state), and the judge terminated visitation. Even so, my son has a lot of healing to do and I am financially devastated by the costs, both legal fees and therapy. There is a whole other sorrow when the BPD parent walks away that I could never have anticipated. It's like a death to my son, and the lack of grieving is on its own a sign of trauma.

You'll probably find a lot of people on this board who are relieved they got divorced, although notice that we're still here   -- the BPD challenges have morphed, not disappeared. I think the successful members manage to neutralize their emotions, or else develop a degree of empathy and communication skills that help minimize conflict. Developing empathy while having good boundaries is probably the best thing to come out of my divorce, and it took years. It's hard to stay above the fray and use the conflict to develop the black belt skills needed to manage emotions in a healthy way. It also really helps to have a first class lawyer and a good judge.

And yes, your wife most definitely sees your separation as a threat to her security. This would be true whether she is BPD or not.

Can you remind us again how old your kids are?

[sanemom]

I have nothing new or brilliant to say, but I wanted to second and third what the above posters said.  Your wife does not live in your reality, and you need to avoid emotionally reattaching to her in order to truly evaluate your situation.  There is no easy answer in these situations--kids can get hurt both ways; only you know where you are and where your kids are and can figure out what they need.

My DH is the one who married a BPD, but my ex has bipolar--definitely not the same animal (BPD ex has caused us far more drama).  However, I went through years where I did choose to stay with my ex--not because I wanted to or because I was in love with him, but because at the ages my kids were at, I figured I could protect them more if I stayed in the home than I could if they had unsupervised time with him.  As they got older, that changed, and I did choose to divorce him.  In between point A and point B, I worked on myself, my reactions, and how I dealt with him.  I wanted to be able to tell my kids that I did everything I could to fix the marriage before I gave up. 

Every situation is different--I think it is a good idea to emotionally detach some and try to take a more evaluative approach as to how you can help your kids in both scenarios.

[jbkt16]

Wow, I can relate to every single thing you are saying.  I finally gave up on thinking he could change.  I know divorce is in the best interest of my kids (I have known this for a long time, but then he turns back on the effort and convinces me that maybe I am making a mistake).  This time, I knew it was right, and I just went for it.  I found a lawyer I could afford, we contemplated filing immediately or waiting until I could file in another county, but I told her the next day "just get it filed".  I didn't give myself time to think (I have been thinking for the whole 12 years of marriage about what to do) and just acted.  I didn't want to give myself a chance to see his "nice side" and forget about how cruel and downright mean he can be.  I didn't want to start doubting how damaging it can and will be to the boys to see their father treat their mother that way for the rest of their childhood.  I knew I couldn't expose them anymore... .  But everyone's decision is unique and every circumstance is unique.  But I do agree that you have to somehow stay removed from the chaos as much as possible to be able to think clear.

My ex has not been served yet, but I think he knows it is coming.  He is already threatening trying to take the kids from me, already making me out to be some kind of bad parent, which couldn't be the farthest from the truth and he knows it.  He has never been interested in raising the kids, until now.  I honestly just believe he is doing it to keep up his image and more importantly to hurt me where he knows he still can.

Good luck to you in your decision!  18 years is a long time to be dealing with it.  I have been in it 12 years and it feels like eternity!

[scraps66]

I read a book that very clearly and concisely confirmed the answer that I already had, "Too Good to Go, Too Bad to Stay."  I was the victim of fabricated entrapment.  So the answer was easier to get even without the book.  My children would have had a much more difficult time if we stayed together and they continued to witness the abuse. 

www.toogoodtogotoobadtostay.blogspot.com/2011/06/questions.html

[livednlearned]

My children would have had a much more difficult time if we stayed together and they continued to witness the abuse. 

This is a really good point.

One of the things that happens after divorce is that you can at least model healthy intimacy, something the kids don't see in the home if there is abuse. Unless you are in a place to practice what Bill Eddy calls "moderate behaviors, managed emotions, and flexible thinking," plus empathy and boundaries (which is hard when you're depressed), the kids see the intimacy patterns and absorb them deep into their DNA.

A lot of us become so broken down in these marriages that we struggle to model the healthy skills our kids need. I watched my son deal with bullies in his peer group exactly the way I dealt with his dad  :'( He seemed to be drawn to very tricky friends that liked him one minute then beat him down the next. Meanwhile, nice kids wanted to be his friend and he was oblivious to them. It's been 5 years since we left and over a year since he saw his dad, and he feels safer as a loner despite lifelong friends who genuinely care about him, and new kids who think he's funny, smart, and interesting. The legacy of me staying too long is that my son experienced depression and anxiety at a young age, and instead of focusing on college and exploring his interests, we are focused on his mental health.

The disposition of your kids and their temperaments, and their ability to be emotionally resilient -- these are good things to factor into your decision, as well as the way the abuse is impacting them.

[scraps66]

All good points.  Also, significantly factor in what the relationship is doing to yourself.  If you become a shred of the person you once were, chances are you won't be able to do what's in the children's best interest.  I am still struggling with this today having the most stressful year in my life.  I look back, maybe if I had done things differently, acted quicker or acted with more force, things would be different today.  I'm not regretting, I'm reflecting.  So factor in jut how much you can take and still function and enjoy your kids.   

[ForeverDad]

Subjectivity versus Objectivity

Subjectivity — You experience the behaviors yourself, the push/pull patterns, the blaming, the blame-shifting, the guilting, it hits hard and has immense emotional impact on you and your decisions.  High risk of invalidating yourself.

Objectivity — The ability to step away, step outside the box and look in as an impartial observer.  For example, imagine yourself as doing okay but your friend or co-worker is experiencing the behaviors, the push/pull patterns, the blaming, the blame-shifting, the guilting, it hits hard and has immense emotional impact on that person and that person's decisions.  Same experiences as above but you're not the focus. What would you suggest or advise to that person, that friend or co-worker?

Do you see how in the first instance you may be so very indecisive or even willing to get back on the roller coaster but in the second instance you may advise and suggest very differently to someone else?  That is precisely the different between being subjective or objective.

Based on my background, I'm all for marriage.  But I had to accept that my marriage had become dysfunctional and unhealthy, even dangerous.  So while I love marriage I also have to accept that self-preservation needs to kick in sometime before even more damage is done.

[SamwizeGamgee]

These responses are great, and deserve a lot more thought. Thank you.  But, in the meantime - while I work on everything... .

I have 5 kids. D16 - (going on 17, high school senior, very bright, sharp kid) not very emotionally available, critical sometimes, bossy, likes to be the adult; D14 also very smart, more into friends and appearances, more moody and lashes out in anger like mom; S11 great kid, very smart and curious, though reserved (somewhere on the Aspergian spectrum), very BPD prone behaviors (splitting, blame, no emotional regulation, verbally and emotionally abusive); D8 emotional, charming, social, seems age appropriate and happy; D5 total handful! age appropriate if you like the most interesting people. 

Knowing more about BPD, I see that it causes her parenting style.  She simply must be the smothering super-mom who believes she cannot work a job because she must be home for the kids (who are in all-day school now).  I see now that she loves them as long as she controls them.  I see parentification at times, and suspect emotional incest at other times.  To the outside she pretends to be a great mother. 

I have been able to build a pretty solid wall of detachment from my wife, and specifically now, her BPD-isms.  I can have a conversation with her, pay her compliments, listen, validate and empathize - and all those are big growth ares for me over the years.  However, or perhaps due to this, I have no feelings for her.  I understand how people say they still love their abusive spouse, but, I am not there.  I feel like a prisoner would towards the warden - respect, distance, maybe some wariness, but no love.  One thing that helped is I have worked on the whole grieving process of the failed marriage and hopes and dreams.  I can stay technically married, but I accept that I can never have a meaningful, reciprocal loving relationship based in mutuality.  Done. That helps me understand where I am.   Intimacy is done and over too, she said things that will make it impossible for me to be with her physically - at least as far as I can see. 

I also have an outpouring of sadness and sympathy for her.  It is sad to think about her vision of things, and me, and life.  I am saddened that due to her childhood she was brought to this point.  I expect that I can recover and be whole.  She cannot.  I am confident in my walls holding even with my compassion towards her.  I cannot emotionally reattach to her. I have developed this by reminding myself to see the whole person.  Although she tries small acts of kindness, and even asks how my day was now, I have trained myself to see her as the whole person.  This kind woman is the same raging lonely angry woman who gave me years of rejection, isolation, manipulation, blackmail, blame, and seemingly endless confrontations and chaos.  All in one.  "Thank you for the kindness, not forgetting the ugliness."

As for the best interests of the kids.  I have heard more and more from adult children of BPD moms that they wish dad would have left, or stood up for them against mom.  I can stand up for them while married in the same house.  I cannot provide a safe haven though. Each solution, divorce or remaining, has advantages I suppose.  As I look at my kids, I see the behaviors and personalities in the oldest to youngest as having the least hope for normal psychology to the most as they get younger.  Maybe I should value that as to if / when / how to separate.

I will think on this more, and I thank you all for the help.  Listening (reading) if nothing else.